Re: Mozilla takes on Flash

[Joel Tan <jo...@gmail.com>]

Hi Alex,

I like your statement “For me, a goal is to get someone to use Flex/FlexJS to build a site or apps that people can't live without”, You are right! If Flex Developers can build apps that draw many users to it, make it to be part of their lives or businesses which they can’t live without, then Flex will definitely be prospered. But it’s so much more rely on the creativities of Flex Developers rather than Flex Technology, today we have seen many great Flex apps are run behind the Firewall in corporate companies, Flex are well known in enterprise, but they are not made known so much to the public users, because lack of consumer apps.

I always believe that internet can not be owned by an organisation, but it’s driven by communities. If Flex community can build great apps that using Flex Technology to flood the internet, acquired huge user based to rely on it as part of their lives and business as what Alex was mentioned “can’t live without”, Flex/Flash/SWF won’t go away.

Technologies come and go, Flex/Flash won’t go but will continue to evolve, many other technologies was trying to kill Flash in the History, such as Ajax, Silverlight and etc, they all not succeed, this time HTML5 will have no exception. Adobe is smart enough to reposition Flash by focusing 3D gaming and video content, it’s where HTML5 is not good at and hardly come close to it in long term, it’s one of the way Adobe try to protect the Flash Player to be remained in the desktop browser (just my own assumption), so that we can build our Flex apps freely and peacefully running within the browser. Today we have seen many great 3D games are rely on desktop Flash Player, consumers can’t live without those 3D games, those 3D games required Flash Player, Apple, Microsoft can’t live without consumers, they have to support Flash Player.

We should stop doubting about Flex/Flash, stop being negative, continue to create great Flex apps (especially apps that target consumer) to flood the internet, acquire huge user based for your Flex apps, the future of Flex is so much rely on what Flex community do today to continue to create great apps, we must believe it, don’t quit and press on.


Joel




On Nov 1, 2013, at 12:23 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:

> Well, again, just my opinion, but while Jobs is/was very influential,
> commercial success could have (and could still) trump his opinions.  I'd
> bet that in every relase of Windows and OSX, the compatibility testers see
> what broke and discuss what they want to bring forward.  So far Flash has
> been on that list, probably because it would make IE and Safari look
> broken.  The new form factors for phones provided an opportunity to break
> content, especially, non-critical content, and get away with it and the
> problem for Flash was that it was mostly in non-critical content or, as
> you say, folks could live with handicapped versions.
> 
> For me, a goal is to get someone to use Flex/FlexJS to build a site or
> apps that people can't live without.  We've seen devices fail commercially
> because they didn't support email.  Can Flash do something that people
> can't live without?
> 
> -Alex
> 
> On 10/31/13 6:41 AM, "Nick Collins" <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Alex,
>> 
>> Well, as far as Apple is concerned on that end, it was kind of
>> self-fulfilling prophecy. They said people can live without SWFs, and then
>> used their clout to force everyone to recreate their content without
>> Flash,
>> so the content was still there in some handicapped form, but it was a
>> passable solution that people could get by with. If Jobs hadn't released
>> his "I Hate Flash" manifesto, I highly doubt it would have happened on its
>> own just because "People can live without SWFs."
>> 
>> Nick
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/30/13 7:38 AM, "Tom Chiverton" <tc...@extravision.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 29/10/2013 17:02, Alex Harui wrote:
>>>>> to debug and test on all of the various browsers and platforms out
>>>>> there.
>>>>> It was doable at one point in time, but with the explosion of mobile
>>>> That was what the Open Screen Project was meant to achieve, I thought,
>>>> outsourcing the Player development to the respective distributors- much
>>>> like what happened waaaay back with Flash on the Maemo Nokia's.
>>> Yup, and again this is just my opinion and not Adobe's position, I think
>>> that there was never a Flash SWF that folks "had to have" such that
>>> there
>>> was fear that your device wouldn't sell if it couldn't run it.  So I'm
>>> not
>>> sure enough device manufacturers signed up.  Even Google seems to have
>>> bugs specific to Pepper Flash Players.  And Apple gambled that folks
>>> could
>>> live without SWFs and so far, have been right.
>>> 
>>> In FlexJS, it is a desired outcome to be able to produce smaller and
>>> faster SWFs such that someone can truly compare SWF apps vs JS apps.
>>> Flex
>>> apps today are burdened by RSLs and big SWFs caused by lots of
>>> "just-in-case" code.  Then we'll see if there really is something about
>>> Flash for applications (there clearly is something about Flash for
>>> "immersive experiences" that leverage lots of the rendering features).
>>> 
>>> -Alex
>>> 
>>> 
> 

Re: Mozilla takes on Flash

[Ronny Shibley <rs...@codefish.com>]

Well said Joel ! I'm a strong believer in structured programing and
painless portability. Flex is by far the best there is out there at the
time being. It might be a while before others catch up. Until we are
provided with an alternative that does not deny us all software
architecture standards...  I'm forcing all my employees to stick with flex
for enterprise application development. Yes , we had couple setbacks
developing for mobile... But nothing we couldn't overcome with small
workarounds.

So thank you flex team for giving us this wonderful programing experience.

Ronny
On Nov 1, 2013 7:26 AM, "Joel Tan" <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
>
> I like your statement “For me, a goal is to get someone to use Flex/FlexJS
> to build a site or apps that people can't live without”, You are right! If
> Flex Developers can build apps that draw many users to it, make it to be
> part of their lives or businesses which they can’t live without, then Flex
> will definitely be prospered. But it’s so much more rely on the
> creativities of Flex Developers rather than Flex Technology, today we have
> seen many great Flex apps are run behind the Firewall in corporate
> companies, Flex are well known in enterprise, but they are not made known
> so much to the public users, because lack of consumer apps.
>
> I always believe that internet can not be owned by an organisation, but
> it’s driven by communities. If Flex community can build great apps that
> using Flex Technology to flood the internet, acquired huge user based to
> rely on it as part of their lives and business as what Alex was mentioned
> “can’t live without”, Flex/Flash/SWF won’t go away.
>
> Technologies come and go, Flex/Flash won’t go but will continue to evolve,
> many other technologies was trying to kill Flash in the History, such as
> Ajax, Silverlight and etc, they all not succeed, this time HTML5 will have
> no exception. Adobe is smart enough to reposition Flash by focusing 3D
> gaming and video content, it’s where HTML5 is not good at and hardly come
> close to it in long term, it’s one of the way Adobe try to protect the
> Flash Player to be remained in the desktop browser (just my own
> assumption), so that we can build our Flex apps freely and peacefully
> running within the browser. Today we have seen many great 3D games are rely
> on desktop Flash Player, consumers can’t live without those 3D games, those
> 3D games required Flash Player, Apple, Microsoft can’t live without
> consumers, they have to support Flash Player.
>
> We should stop doubting about Flex/Flash, stop being negative, continue to
> create great Flex apps (especially apps that target consumer) to flood the
> internet, acquire huge user based for your Flex apps, the future of Flex is
> so much rely on what Flex community do today to continue to create great
> apps, we must believe it, don’t quit and press on.
>
>
> Joel
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 1, 2013, at 12:23 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, again, just my opinion, but while Jobs is/was very influential,
> > commercial success could have (and could still) trump his opinions.  I'd
> > bet that in every relase of Windows and OSX, the compatibility testers
> see
> > what broke and discuss what they want to bring forward.  So far Flash has
> > been on that list, probably because it would make IE and Safari look
> > broken.  The new form factors for phones provided an opportunity to break
> > content, especially, non-critical content, and get away with it and the
> > problem for Flash was that it was mostly in non-critical content or, as
> > you say, folks could live with handicapped versions.
> >
> > For me, a goal is to get someone to use Flex/FlexJS to build a site or
> > apps that people can't live without.  We've seen devices fail
> commercially
> > because they didn't support email.  Can Flash do something that people
> > can't live without?
> >
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 10/31/13 6:41 AM, "Nick Collins" <nd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Alex,
> >>
> >> Well, as far as Apple is concerned on that end, it was kind of
> >> self-fulfilling prophecy. They said people can live without SWFs, and
> then
> >> used their clout to force everyone to recreate their content without
> >> Flash,
> >> so the content was still there in some handicapped form, but it was a
> >> passable solution that people could get by with. If Jobs hadn't released
> >> his "I Hate Flash" manifesto, I highly doubt it would have happened on
> its
> >> own just because "People can live without SWFs."
> >>
> >> Nick
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 10/30/13 7:38 AM, "Tom Chiverton" <tc...@extravision.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 29/10/2013 17:02, Alex Harui wrote:
> >>>>> to debug and test on all of the various browsers and platforms out
> >>>>> there.
> >>>>> It was doable at one point in time, but with the explosion of mobile
> >>>> That was what the Open Screen Project was meant to achieve, I thought,
> >>>> outsourcing the Player development to the respective distributors-
> much
> >>>> like what happened waaaay back with Flash on the Maemo Nokia's.
> >>> Yup, and again this is just my opinion and not Adobe's position, I
> think
> >>> that there was never a Flash SWF that folks "had to have" such that
> >>> there
> >>> was fear that your device wouldn't sell if it couldn't run it.  So I'm
> >>> not
> >>> sure enough device manufacturers signed up.  Even Google seems to have
> >>> bugs specific to Pepper Flash Players.  And Apple gambled that folks
> >>> could
> >>> live without SWFs and so far, have been right.
> >>>
> >>> In FlexJS, it is a desired outcome to be able to produce smaller and
> >>> faster SWFs such that someone can truly compare SWF apps vs JS apps.
> >>> Flex
> >>> apps today are burdened by RSLs and big SWFs caused by lots of
> >>> "just-in-case" code.  Then we'll see if there really is something about
> >>> Flash for applications (there clearly is something about Flash for
> >>> "immersive experiences" that leverage lots of the rendering features).
> >>>
> >>> -Alex
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>
>