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Posted to users@felix.apache.org by Skinner Chad <cs...@topeka.k12.ks.us> on 2009/03/25 15:51:17 UTC
felix.auto.start.# and startup order
Can anyone tell me how the start levels affect the automatic start of
bundles?
I have the bundles setup as the following:
felix.auto.install.1 = <core osgi and felix bundles>
felix.auto.install.2 = <easybean bundles>
felix.auto.install.3 = <fileinstall bundle>
felix.startlevel.bundle = 4
org.osgi.framework.startlevel=4
The firsttime I start felix (clean cache) this appears to load in the
proper order and if I drop my custom bundles into the directory for
file install they are loaded as well. Every subsequent time I start
felix it appears that my custom bundles in startlevel4 are being
started before easybeans and I get some JNDI errors.
Should the bundles not start in order (1, 2, 3, 4 ....)?
Thanks,
-- Chad
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Re: felix.auto.start.# and startup order
Posted by "Richard S. Hall" <he...@ungoverned.org>.
The only thing the start level guarantees is that the framework has
called BundleActivator.start() on each bundle in a given start level and
returned from it before advancing to the next start level. Felix doesn't
use multiple threads within a start level, but I think the spec allows
it. It is possible that the bundles themselves spawn off new threads in
their activators to finish their initialization. If that is the case,
there is nothing OSGi can do to help here.
-> richard
On 3/25/09 12:24 PM, Skinner Chad wrote:
> Yes, The easybeans agent bundle in felix.auto.start.2 is responsible
> for starting the other bundles in the correct order. If I remove my
> bundles from the application and the restart felix the JNDI lookup
> errors go away. One question, is the startup performed on a single
> thread? Is it possible that all of these are started in multiple
> threads and the EZB bundles have not started completely before my
> bundles are started? If this is the case how to I prevent my bundles
> from starting before everything in the EZB bundle is started?
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2009, at 1:29 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:
>
>> Are the easybeans bundles started at all? From the below properties
>> alone that isn't the case i think. So something else must be going on
>> as well.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Skinner Chad
>> <cs...@topeka.k12.ks.us> wrote:
>>> Sorry I messed up my description of how I have this configured. The
>>> correct
>>> information is:
>>>
>>> felix.auto.start.1 = <core osgi and felix bundles>
>>> felix.auto.install.2 = <easybean bundles>
>>> felix.auto.start.2 = <ow2 logging bundle> <easybeans agent bundle>
>>> felix.auto.install.3 = <fileinstall bundle>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 25, 2009, at 9:51 AM, Skinner Chad wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can anyone tell me how the start levels affect the automatic start of
>>>> bundles?
>>>>
>>>> I have the bundles setup as the following:
>>>>
>>>> felix.auto.install.1 = <core osgi and felix bundles>
>>>> felix.auto.install.2 = <easybean bundles>
>>>> felix.auto.install.3 = <fileinstall bundle>
>>>> felix.startlevel.bundle = 4
>>>> org.osgi.framework.startlevel=4
>>>>
>>>> The firsttime I start felix (clean cache) this appears to load in the
>>>> proper order and if I drop my custom bundles into the directory for
>>>> file
>>>> install they are loaded as well. Every subsequent time I start
>>>> felix it
>>>> appears that my custom bundles in startlevel4 are being started before
>>>> easybeans and I get some JNDI errors.
>>>>
>>>> Should the bundles not start in order (1, 2, 3, 4 ....)?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> -- Chad
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Pauls
>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Blog on OSGi
Posted by Kirk Knoernschild <pr...@kirkk.com>.
Pierre,
Thank you for the links. I must take a look at the information.
Kirk Knoernschild
http://www.kirkk.com
http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
http://planet.kirkk.com
twitter: pragkirk
On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 12:04 PM, Pierre Dubois wrote:
> Have a look at:
>
> http://forge.ow2.org/projects/dysoweb
> http://www.requea.com/do/Support/Documentation/Documentation/index?sysId=a40485cd-af22-4988-9514-53c1cad35ce0&pctx=dbf93cb31f622c43012043af25e444b4
> http://www.requea.com/do/archi/dysoweb/Dysoweb
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>
>> The techniques you are using are the types of best practices and
>> patterns that are lacking, and that are impeding more widespread
>> adoption. How are you embedding Felix in your apps? How do you
>> support JSP? That type of thing. Can you share the techniques
>> you're using to deploy web apps to these app servers while still
>> leveraging OSGi?
>>
>> Kirk Knoernschild
>> http://www.kirkk.com
>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>> twitter: pragkirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 10:12 AM, Pierre Dubois wrote:
>>
>>> I second Rob.
>>>
>>> We came from a different perspective, but got the same result. Not
>>> saying it is trivial, but definitely doable. We do use pretty much
>>> the same stuff (log4j, hibernate, lucene, itext, jackrabbit)
>>> deployed in Felix. We do only Web dev, and our stuff runs in
>>> Tomcat, JBoss, Weblogic and Oracle AS. We do not use Jetty tough.
>>>
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2009, at 3:09 PM, Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rob,
>>>>
>>>> Curious - What application server do you use? Jetty embedded
>>>> within Felix?
>>>>
>>>> I never suggested it wasn't possible to do (I know it's
>>>> possible), only that it isn't feasible for most organizations to
>>>> attempt. But if I've got my current generation of applications
>>>> deployed on WAS, WebLogic, or JBoss, most organizations would
>>>> look at me like I was crazy were I to suggest embedding Jetty
>>>> within Felix.
>>>>
>>>> Kirk Knoernschild
>>>> http://www.kirkk.com
>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>>>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>>>> twitter: pragkirk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 8:56 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nice response ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess we just come at it from different directions. We do use
>>>>> OSGi for web app development, and it's been very successful.
>>>>> We've got rock solid GWT support, a decent spread of back end
>>>>> services, including all the usual infrastructure plumbing like
>>>>> logging, user auth, personalization etc etc. We did roll a lot
>>>>> of it ourselves, but in truth most of the effort was figuring
>>>>> out how best to architect things - which I suspect we'd have
>>>>> needed to do even if we'd used more pre-built app framework
>>>>> functionality. We did pick and choose a lot of free standing
>>>>> libs to help us, such as the usual suspects of Log4j, Apache
>>>>> Commons Configuration, Hibernate, XML and XSLT tools, a sprinkle
>>>>> of Spring Security, java html/chart/pdf report generators like
>>>>> iText, TrueZip, and too many others too mention.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the end, it wasn't that much code or effort to wire each of
>>>>> these libs in ways that exactly met our needs.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Rob
>>>>>
>>>>> Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for the comment on my blog posting. I've responded,
>>>>>> but will also take a moment to respond here, as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't intend to come across as narrowly focused. In fact, I
>>>>>> thought I was pretty broadly focused and had made it clear I
>>>>>> was talking about OSGi for web application development. I felt
>>>>>> I was pretty clear that OSGi proper (Equinox and Felix) is
>>>>>> ready for primetime, but the tooling and application platform
>>>>>> is not. I'm an OSGi advocate, but it's unrealistic to expect an
>>>>>> enterprise developer to glue together the components necessary
>>>>>> to develop an enterprise application using OSGi. That's why we
>>>>>> use products and frameworks - so we don't have to. You can
>>>>>> respectfully disagree with my argument, but the reality is that
>>>>>> until better tooling exists and the application platform
>>>>>> exposes the capabilities of OSGi, the enterprise is not going
>>>>>> to use it. And I wish they could!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I shall now take a retreat to write some code...:-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kirk Knoernschild
>>>>>> http://www.kirkk.com
>>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>>>>>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>>>>>> twitter: pragkirk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 1:04 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I added my 10c:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-path/#comment-7129
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When did developing sotfware and apps get reduced to mindless
>>>>>>> lego block assembly - where did all the real programmers go? I
>>>>>>> guess they're writing code not blogs!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - R
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave McLoughlin wrote:
>>>>>>>> Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
>>>>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
>>>>>>>> th/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 720 240 4530 | phone
>>>>>>>> 303 818 1686 | cell
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>>>>>> robw@ascert.com
>>>>>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>>>>>> www.ascert.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>>>> robw@ascert.com
>>>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>>>> www.ascert.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>
>>> Pierre Dubois
>>> Requea
>>> www.requea.com
>>> 06 82 27 46 32
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>
> Pierre Dubois
> Requea
> www.requea.com
> 06 82 27 46 32
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: Blog on OSGi
Posted by Pierre Dubois <pd...@requea.com>.
Have a look at:
http://forge.ow2.org/projects/dysoweb
http://www.requea.com/do/Support/Documentation/Documentation/index?sysId=a40485cd-af22-4988-9514-53c1cad35ce0&pctx=dbf93cb31f622c43012043af25e444b4
http://www.requea.com/do/archi/dysoweb/Dysoweb
On Mar 26, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
> The techniques you are using are the types of best practices and
> patterns that are lacking, and that are impeding more widespread
> adoption. How are you embedding Felix in your apps? How do you
> support JSP? That type of thing. Can you share the techniques you're
> using to deploy web apps to these app servers while still leveraging
> OSGi?
>
> Kirk Knoernschild
> http://www.kirkk.com
> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
> http://planet.kirkk.com
> twitter: pragkirk
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 10:12 AM, Pierre Dubois wrote:
>
>> I second Rob.
>>
>> We came from a different perspective, but got the same result. Not
>> saying it is trivial, but definitely doable. We do use pretty much
>> the same stuff (log4j, hibernate, lucene, itext, jackrabbit)
>> deployed in Felix. We do only Web dev, and our stuff runs in
>> Tomcat, JBoss, Weblogic and Oracle AS. We do not use Jetty tough.
>>
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2009, at 3:09 PM, Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>>
>>> Rob,
>>>
>>> Curious - What application server do you use? Jetty embedded
>>> within Felix?
>>>
>>> I never suggested it wasn't possible to do (I know it's possible),
>>> only that it isn't feasible for most organizations to attempt. But
>>> if I've got my current generation of applications deployed on
>>> WAS, WebLogic, or JBoss, most organizations would look at me like
>>> I was crazy were I to suggest embedding Jetty within Felix.
>>>
>>> Kirk Knoernschild
>>> http://www.kirkk.com
>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>>> twitter: pragkirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 8:56 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nice response ;)
>>>>
>>>> I guess we just come at it from different directions. We do use
>>>> OSGi for web app development, and it's been very successful.
>>>> We've got rock solid GWT support, a decent spread of back end
>>>> services, including all the usual infrastructure plumbing like
>>>> logging, user auth, personalization etc etc. We did roll a lot of
>>>> it ourselves, but in truth most of the effort was figuring out
>>>> how best to architect things - which I suspect we'd have needed
>>>> to do even if we'd used more pre-built app framework
>>>> functionality. We did pick and choose a lot of free standing libs
>>>> to help us, such as the usual suspects of Log4j, Apache Commons
>>>> Configuration, Hibernate, XML and XSLT tools, a sprinkle of
>>>> Spring Security, java html/chart/pdf report generators like
>>>> iText, TrueZip, and too many others too mention.
>>>>
>>>> In the end, it wasn't that much code or effort to wire each of
>>>> these libs in ways that exactly met our needs.
>>>>
>>>> -- Rob
>>>>
>>>> Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the comment on my blog posting. I've responded,
>>>>> but will also take a moment to respond here, as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't intend to come across as narrowly focused. In fact, I
>>>>> thought I was pretty broadly focused and had made it clear I was
>>>>> talking about OSGi for web application development. I felt I was
>>>>> pretty clear that OSGi proper (Equinox and Felix) is ready for
>>>>> primetime, but the tooling and application platform is not. I'm
>>>>> an OSGi advocate, but it's unrealistic to expect an enterprise
>>>>> developer to glue together the components necessary to develop
>>>>> an enterprise application using OSGi. That's why we use products
>>>>> and frameworks - so we don't have to. You can respectfully
>>>>> disagree with my argument, but the reality is that until better
>>>>> tooling exists and the application platform exposes the
>>>>> capabilities of OSGi, the enterprise is not going to use it. And
>>>>> I wish they could!
>>>>>
>>>>> I shall now take a retreat to write some code...:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Kirk Knoernschild
>>>>> http://www.kirkk.com
>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>>>>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>>>>> twitter: pragkirk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 1:04 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I added my 10c:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-path/#comment-7129
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When did developing sotfware and apps get reduced to mindless
>>>>>> lego block assembly - where did all the real programmers go? I
>>>>>> guess they're writing code not blogs!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - R
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave McLoughlin wrote:
>>>>>>> Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
>>>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
>>>>>>> th/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 720 240 4530 | phone
>>>>>>> 303 818 1686 | cell
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>>>>> robw@ascert.com
>>>>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>>>>> www.ascert.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>>> robw@ascert.com
>>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>>> www.ascert.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>> Pierre Dubois
>> Requea
>> www.requea.com
>> 06 82 27 46 32
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
Pierre Dubois
Requea
www.requea.com
06 82 27 46 32
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Re: Blog on OSGi
Posted by Rob Walker <ro...@ascert.com>.
Yep - totally agree that it would be nice to have such things written
up. Sadly, finding time to write stuff up is always tough, especially
with am always ever present backlog of product enhancements that the
next customer/user is desperate for in the next release.
Just as an FYI:
* we don't use JSP. For the "browser UI" aspects of our
applications, we find GWT meets our needs better. If we need
something simpler for rendering HTML content with dynamic parts,
we'd look to approaches like WebMacro.
* we have a thin launcher we created to kick off Felix. Although in
one sense you could say Felix is "embedded", because we wrap it in
a launcher, that's over simplistic. Really, our whole app sits
under Felix as a full OSGi participant. The launcher part is just
a flexible startup layer that gives us options to launch in
different ways, depending on the specific application we need to
launch e.g. direct/local Java invocation for servers, Applet/JNLP
etc for any "thick java client" side pieces we create
-- Rob
Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
> The techniques you are using are the types of best practices and
> patterns that are lacking, and that are impeding more widespread
> adoption. How are you embedding Felix in your apps? How do you support
> JSP? That type of thing. Can you share the techniques you're using to
> deploy web apps to these app servers while still leveraging OSGi?
>
> Kirk Knoernschild
> http://www.kirkk.com
> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
> http://planet.kirkk.com
> twitter: pragkirk
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 10:12 AM, Pierre Dubois wrote:
>
>> I second Rob.
>>
>> We came from a different perspective, but got the same result. Not
>> saying it is trivial, but definitely doable. We do use pretty much
>> the same stuff (log4j, hibernate, lucene, itext, jackrabbit) deployed
>> in Felix. We do only Web dev, and our stuff runs in Tomcat, JBoss,
>> Weblogic and Oracle AS. We do not use Jetty tough.
>>
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2009, at 3:09 PM, Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>>
>>> Rob,
>>>
>>> Curious - What application server do you use? Jetty embedded within
>>> Felix?
>>>
>>> I never suggested it wasn't possible to do (I know it's possible),
>>> only that it isn't feasible for most organizations to attempt. But
>>> if I've got my current generation of applications deployed on WAS,
>>> WebLogic, or JBoss, most organizations would look at me like I was
>>> crazy were I to suggest embedding Jetty within Felix.
>>>
>>> Kirk Knoernschild
>>> http://www.kirkk.com
>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>>> twitter: pragkirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 8:56 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nice response ;)
>>>>
>>>> I guess we just come at it from different directions. We do use
>>>> OSGi for web app development, and it's been very successful. We've
>>>> got rock solid GWT support, a decent spread of back end services,
>>>> including all the usual infrastructure plumbing like logging, user
>>>> auth, personalization etc etc. We did roll a lot of it ourselves,
>>>> but in truth most of the effort was figuring out how best to
>>>> architect things - which I suspect we'd have needed to do even if
>>>> we'd used more pre-built app framework functionality. We did pick
>>>> and choose a lot of free standing libs to help us, such as the
>>>> usual suspects of Log4j, Apache Commons Configuration, Hibernate,
>>>> XML and XSLT tools, a sprinkle of Spring Security, java
>>>> html/chart/pdf report generators like iText, TrueZip, and too many
>>>> others too mention.
>>>>
>>>> In the end, it wasn't that much code or effort to wire each of
>>>> these libs in ways that exactly met our needs.
>>>>
>>>> -- Rob
>>>>
>>>> Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the comment on my blog posting. I've responded, but
>>>>> will also take a moment to respond here, as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't intend to come across as narrowly focused. In fact, I
>>>>> thought I was pretty broadly focused and had made it clear I was
>>>>> talking about OSGi for web application development. I felt I was
>>>>> pretty clear that OSGi proper (Equinox and Felix) is ready for
>>>>> primetime, but the tooling and application platform is not. I'm an
>>>>> OSGi advocate, but it's unrealistic to expect an enterprise
>>>>> developer to glue together the components necessary to develop an
>>>>> enterprise application using OSGi. That's why we use products and
>>>>> frameworks - so we don't have to. You can respectfully disagree
>>>>> with my argument, but the reality is that until better tooling
>>>>> exists and the application platform exposes the capabilities of
>>>>> OSGi, the enterprise is not going to use it. And I wish they could!
>>>>>
>>>>> I shall now take a retreat to write some code...:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Kirk Knoernschild
>>>>> http://www.kirkk.com
>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>>>>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>>>>> twitter: pragkirk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 1:04 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I added my 10c:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-path/#comment-7129
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When did developing sotfware and apps get reduced to mindless
>>>>>> lego block assembly - where did all the real programmers go? I
>>>>>> guess they're writing code not blogs!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - R
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave McLoughlin wrote:
>>>>>>> Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
>>>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> th/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 720 240 4530 | phone
>>>>>>> 303 818 1686 | cell
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>>>>> robw@ascert.com
>>>>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>>>>> www.ascert.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>>> robw@ascert.com
>>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>>> www.ascert.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>> Pierre Dubois
>> Requea
>> www.requea.com
>> 06 82 27 46 32
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>
>
--
Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
robw@ascert.com
+44 (0)20 7488 3470
www.ascert.com
Re: Blog on OSGi
Posted by Kirk Knoernschild <pr...@kirkk.com>.
The techniques you are using are the types of best practices and
patterns that are lacking, and that are impeding more widespread
adoption. How are you embedding Felix in your apps? How do you support
JSP? That type of thing. Can you share the techniques you're using to
deploy web apps to these app servers while still leveraging OSGi?
Kirk Knoernschild
http://www.kirkk.com
http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
http://planet.kirkk.com
twitter: pragkirk
On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 10:12 AM, Pierre Dubois wrote:
> I second Rob.
>
> We came from a different perspective, but got the same result. Not
> saying it is trivial, but definitely doable. We do use pretty much
> the same stuff (log4j, hibernate, lucene, itext, jackrabbit)
> deployed in Felix. We do only Web dev, and our stuff runs in Tomcat,
> JBoss, Weblogic and Oracle AS. We do not use Jetty tough.
>
>
> Pierre
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2009, at 3:09 PM, Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>
>> Rob,
>>
>> Curious - What application server do you use? Jetty embedded within
>> Felix?
>>
>> I never suggested it wasn't possible to do (I know it's possible),
>> only that it isn't feasible for most organizations to attempt. But
>> if I've got my current generation of applications deployed on WAS,
>> WebLogic, or JBoss, most organizations would look at me like I was
>> crazy were I to suggest embedding Jetty within Felix.
>>
>> Kirk Knoernschild
>> http://www.kirkk.com
>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>> twitter: pragkirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 8:56 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>
>>> Nice response ;)
>>>
>>> I guess we just come at it from different directions. We do use
>>> OSGi for web app development, and it's been very successful. We've
>>> got rock solid GWT support, a decent spread of back end services,
>>> including all the usual infrastructure plumbing like logging, user
>>> auth, personalization etc etc. We did roll a lot of it ourselves,
>>> but in truth most of the effort was figuring out how best to
>>> architect things - which I suspect we'd have needed to do even if
>>> we'd used more pre-built app framework functionality. We did pick
>>> and choose a lot of free standing libs to help us, such as the
>>> usual suspects of Log4j, Apache Commons Configuration, Hibernate,
>>> XML and XSLT tools, a sprinkle of Spring Security, java html/chart/
>>> pdf report generators like iText, TrueZip, and too many others too
>>> mention.
>>>
>>> In the end, it wasn't that much code or effort to wire each of
>>> these libs in ways that exactly met our needs.
>>>
>>> -- Rob
>>>
>>> Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>>>> Rob,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the comment on my blog posting. I've responded, but
>>>> will also take a moment to respond here, as well.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't intend to come across as narrowly focused. In fact, I
>>>> thought I was pretty broadly focused and had made it clear I was
>>>> talking about OSGi for web application development. I felt I was
>>>> pretty clear that OSGi proper (Equinox and Felix) is ready for
>>>> primetime, but the tooling and application platform is not. I'm
>>>> an OSGi advocate, but it's unrealistic to expect an enterprise
>>>> developer to glue together the components necessary to develop an
>>>> enterprise application using OSGi. That's why we use products and
>>>> frameworks - so we don't have to. You can respectfully disagree
>>>> with my argument, but the reality is that until better tooling
>>>> exists and the application platform exposes the capabilities of
>>>> OSGi, the enterprise is not going to use it. And I wish they could!
>>>>
>>>> I shall now take a retreat to write some code...:-)
>>>>
>>>> Kirk Knoernschild
>>>> http://www.kirkk.com
>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>>>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>>>> twitter: pragkirk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 1:04 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I added my 10c:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-path/#comment-7129
>>>>>
>>>>> When did developing sotfware and apps get reduced to mindless
>>>>> lego block assembly - where did all the real programmers go? I
>>>>> guess they're writing code not blogs!
>>>>>
>>>>> - R
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave McLoughlin wrote:
>>>>>> Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
>>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
>>>>>> th/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 720 240 4530 | phone
>>>>>> 303 818 1686 | cell
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>>>> robw@ascert.com
>>>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>>>> www.ascert.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>> robw@ascert.com
>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>> www.ascert.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>
> Pierre Dubois
> Requea
> www.requea.com
> 06 82 27 46 32
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
Re: Blog on OSGi
Posted by Pierre Dubois <pd...@requea.com>.
I second Rob.
We came from a different perspective, but got the same result. Not
saying it is trivial, but definitely doable. We do use pretty much the
same stuff (log4j, hibernate, lucene, itext, jackrabbit) deployed in
Felix. We do only Web dev, and our stuff runs in Tomcat, JBoss,
Weblogic and Oracle AS. We do not use Jetty tough.
Pierre
On Mar 26, 2009, at 3:09 PM, Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
> Rob,
>
> Curious - What application server do you use? Jetty embedded within
> Felix?
>
> I never suggested it wasn't possible to do (I know it's possible),
> only that it isn't feasible for most organizations to attempt. But
> if I've got my current generation of applications deployed on WAS,
> WebLogic, or JBoss, most organizations would look at me like I was
> crazy were I to suggest embedding Jetty within Felix.
>
> Kirk Knoernschild
> http://www.kirkk.com
> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
> http://planet.kirkk.com
> twitter: pragkirk
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 8:56 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>
>> Nice response ;)
>>
>> I guess we just come at it from different directions. We do use
>> OSGi for web app development, and it's been very successful. We've
>> got rock solid GWT support, a decent spread of back end services,
>> including all the usual infrastructure plumbing like logging, user
>> auth, personalization etc etc. We did roll a lot of it ourselves,
>> but in truth most of the effort was figuring out how best to
>> architect things - which I suspect we'd have needed to do even if
>> we'd used more pre-built app framework functionality. We did pick
>> and choose a lot of free standing libs to help us, such as the
>> usual suspects of Log4j, Apache Commons Configuration, Hibernate,
>> XML and XSLT tools, a sprinkle of Spring Security, java html/chart/
>> pdf report generators like iText, TrueZip, and too many others too
>> mention.
>>
>> In the end, it wasn't that much code or effort to wire each of
>> these libs in ways that exactly met our needs.
>>
>> -- Rob
>>
>> Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>>> Rob,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the comment on my blog posting. I've responded, but
>>> will also take a moment to respond here, as well.
>>>
>>> I didn't intend to come across as narrowly focused. In fact, I
>>> thought I was pretty broadly focused and had made it clear I was
>>> talking about OSGi for web application development. I felt I was
>>> pretty clear that OSGi proper (Equinox and Felix) is ready for
>>> primetime, but the tooling and application platform is not. I'm an
>>> OSGi advocate, but it's unrealistic to expect an enterprise
>>> developer to glue together the components necessary to develop an
>>> enterprise application using OSGi. That's why we use products and
>>> frameworks - so we don't have to. You can respectfully disagree
>>> with my argument, but the reality is that until better tooling
>>> exists and the application platform exposes the capabilities of
>>> OSGi, the enterprise is not going to use it. And I wish they could!
>>>
>>> I shall now take a retreat to write some code...:-)
>>>
>>> Kirk Knoernschild
>>> http://www.kirkk.com
>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>>> twitter: pragkirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 1:04 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>>
>>>> I added my 10c:
>>>>
>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-path/#comment-7129
>>>>
>>>> When did developing sotfware and apps get reduced to mindless
>>>> lego block assembly - where did all the real programmers go? I
>>>> guess they're writing code not blogs!
>>>>
>>>> - R
>>>>
>>>> Dave McLoughlin wrote:
>>>>> Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
>>>>> th/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
>>>>>
>>>>> 720 240 4530 | phone
>>>>> 303 818 1686 | cell
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>>> robw@ascert.com
>>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>>> www.ascert.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>> robw@ascert.com
>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>> www.ascert.com
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
Pierre Dubois
Requea
www.requea.com
06 82 27 46 32
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
Re: Blog on OSGi
Posted by Rob Walker <ro...@ascert.com>.
We do use Jetty, but we try and keep it in it's box as much as possible
- doing the essentials of Http handling, resource and servlet serving,
and supporting a few of the external APIs mechanisms we expose such as
xmlrpc etc
- Rob
Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
> Rob,
>
> Curious - What application server do you use? Jetty embedded within
> Felix?
>
> I never suggested it wasn't possible to do (I know it's possible),
> only that it isn't feasible for most organizations to attempt. But if
> I've got my current generation of applications deployed on WAS,
> WebLogic, or JBoss, most organizations would look at me like I was
> crazy were I to suggest embedding Jetty within Felix.
>
> Kirk Knoernschild
> http://www.kirkk.com
> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
> http://planet.kirkk.com
> twitter: pragkirk
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 8:56 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>
>> Nice response ;)
>>
>> I guess we just come at it from different directions. We do use OSGi
>> for web app development, and it's been very successful. We've got
>> rock solid GWT support, a decent spread of back end services,
>> including all the usual infrastructure plumbing like logging, user
>> auth, personalization etc etc. We did roll a lot of it ourselves, but
>> in truth most of the effort was figuring out how best to architect
>> things - which I suspect we'd have needed to do even if we'd used
>> more pre-built app framework functionality. We did pick and choose a
>> lot of free standing libs to help us, such as the usual suspects of
>> Log4j, Apache Commons Configuration, Hibernate, XML and XSLT tools, a
>> sprinkle of Spring Security, java html/chart/pdf report generators
>> like iText, TrueZip, and too many others too mention.
>>
>> In the end, it wasn't that much code or effort to wire each of these
>> libs in ways that exactly met our needs.
>>
>> -- Rob
>>
>> Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>>> Rob,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the comment on my blog posting. I've responded, but
>>> will also take a moment to respond here, as well.
>>>
>>> I didn't intend to come across as narrowly focused. In fact, I
>>> thought I was pretty broadly focused and had made it clear I was
>>> talking about OSGi for web application development. I felt I was
>>> pretty clear that OSGi proper (Equinox and Felix) is ready for
>>> primetime, but the tooling and application platform is not. I'm an
>>> OSGi advocate, but it's unrealistic to expect an enterprise
>>> developer to glue together the components necessary to develop an
>>> enterprise application using OSGi. That's why we use products and
>>> frameworks - so we don't have to. You can respectfully disagree with
>>> my argument, but the reality is that until better tooling exists and
>>> the application platform exposes the capabilities of OSGi, the
>>> enterprise is not going to use it. And I wish they could!
>>>
>>> I shall now take a retreat to write some code...:-)
>>>
>>> Kirk Knoernschild
>>> http://www.kirkk.com
>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>>> twitter: pragkirk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 1:04 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>>
>>>> I added my 10c:
>>>>
>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-path/#comment-7129
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When did developing sotfware and apps get reduced to mindless lego
>>>> block assembly - where did all the real programmers go? I guess
>>>> they're writing code not blogs!
>>>>
>>>> - R
>>>>
>>>> Dave McLoughlin wrote:
>>>>> Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
>>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
>>>>>
>>>>> th/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
>>>>>
>>>>> 720 240 4530 | phone
>>>>> 303 818 1686 | cell
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>>> robw@ascert.com
>>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>>> www.ascert.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>> robw@ascert.com
>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>> www.ascert.com
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>
--
Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
robw@ascert.com
+44 (0)20 7488 3470
www.ascert.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
Re: Blog on OSGi
Posted by Kirk Knoernschild <pr...@kirkk.com>.
Rob,
Curious - What application server do you use? Jetty embedded within
Felix?
I never suggested it wasn't possible to do (I know it's possible),
only that it isn't feasible for most organizations to attempt. But if
I've got my current generation of applications deployed on WAS,
WebLogic, or JBoss, most organizations would look at me like I was
crazy were I to suggest embedding Jetty within Felix.
Kirk Knoernschild
http://www.kirkk.com
http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
http://planet.kirkk.com
twitter: pragkirk
On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 8:56 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
> Nice response ;)
>
> I guess we just come at it from different directions. We do use OSGi
> for web app development, and it's been very successful. We've got
> rock solid GWT support, a decent spread of back end services,
> including all the usual infrastructure plumbing like logging, user
> auth, personalization etc etc. We did roll a lot of it ourselves,
> but in truth most of the effort was figuring out how best to
> architect things - which I suspect we'd have needed to do even if
> we'd used more pre-built app framework functionality. We did pick
> and choose a lot of free standing libs to help us, such as the usual
> suspects of Log4j, Apache Commons Configuration, Hibernate, XML and
> XSLT tools, a sprinkle of Spring Security, java html/chart/pdf
> report generators like iText, TrueZip, and too many others too
> mention.
>
> In the end, it wasn't that much code or effort to wire each of these
> libs in ways that exactly met our needs.
>
> -- Rob
>
> Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
>> Rob,
>>
>> Thank you for the comment on my blog posting. I've responded, but
>> will also take a moment to respond here, as well.
>>
>> I didn't intend to come across as narrowly focused. In fact, I
>> thought I was pretty broadly focused and had made it clear I was
>> talking about OSGi for web application development. I felt I was
>> pretty clear that OSGi proper (Equinox and Felix) is ready for
>> primetime, but the tooling and application platform is not. I'm an
>> OSGi advocate, but it's unrealistic to expect an enterprise
>> developer to glue together the components necessary to develop an
>> enterprise application using OSGi. That's why we use products and
>> frameworks - so we don't have to. You can respectfully disagree
>> with my argument, but the reality is that until better tooling
>> exists and the application platform exposes the capabilities of
>> OSGi, the enterprise is not going to use it. And I wish they could!
>>
>> I shall now take a retreat to write some code...:-)
>>
>> Kirk Knoernschild
>> http://www.kirkk.com
>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
>> http://planet.kirkk.com
>> twitter: pragkirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 1:04 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>>
>>> I added my 10c:
>>>
>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-path/#comment-7129
>>>
>>> When did developing sotfware and apps get reduced to mindless lego
>>> block assembly - where did all the real programmers go? I guess
>>> they're writing code not blogs!
>>>
>>> - R
>>>
>>> Dave McLoughlin wrote:
>>>> Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
>>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
>>>> th/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
>>>>
>>>> 720 240 4530 | phone
>>>> 303 818 1686 | cell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>>> robw@ascert.com
>>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>>> www.ascert.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>
> --
>
>
> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
> robw@ascert.com
> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
> www.ascert.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
Re: Blog on OSGi
Posted by Rob Walker <ro...@ascert.com>.
Nice response ;)
I guess we just come at it from different directions. We do use OSGi for
web app development, and it's been very successful. We've got rock solid
GWT support, a decent spread of back end services, including all the
usual infrastructure plumbing like logging, user auth, personalization
etc etc. We did roll a lot of it ourselves, but in truth most of the
effort was figuring out how best to architect things - which I suspect
we'd have needed to do even if we'd used more pre-built app framework
functionality. We did pick and choose a lot of free standing libs to
help us, such as the usual suspects of Log4j, Apache Commons
Configuration, Hibernate, XML and XSLT tools, a sprinkle of Spring
Security, java html/chart/pdf report generators like iText, TrueZip, and
too many others too mention.
In the end, it wasn't that much code or effort to wire each of these
libs in ways that exactly met our needs.
-- Rob
Kirk Knoernschild wrote:
> Rob,
>
> Thank you for the comment on my blog posting. I've responded, but will
> also take a moment to respond here, as well.
>
> I didn't intend to come across as narrowly focused. In fact, I thought
> I was pretty broadly focused and had made it clear I was talking about
> OSGi for web application development. I felt I was pretty clear that
> OSGi proper (Equinox and Felix) is ready for primetime, but the
> tooling and application platform is not. I'm an OSGi advocate, but
> it's unrealistic to expect an enterprise developer to glue together
> the components necessary to develop an enterprise application using
> OSGi. That's why we use products and frameworks - so we don't have to.
> You can respectfully disagree with my argument, but the reality is
> that until better tooling exists and the application platform exposes
> the capabilities of OSGi, the enterprise is not going to use it. And I
> wish they could!
>
> I shall now take a retreat to write some code...:-)
>
> Kirk Knoernschild
> http://www.kirkk.com
> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
> http://planet.kirkk.com
> twitter: pragkirk
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 1:04 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
>
>> I added my 10c:
>>
>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-path/#comment-7129
>>
>>
>> When did developing sotfware and apps get reduced to mindless lego
>> block assembly - where did all the real programmers go? I guess
>> they're writing code not blogs!
>>
>> - R
>>
>> Dave McLoughlin wrote:
>>> Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
>>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
>>>
>>> th/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
>>>
>>> 720 240 4530 | phone
>>> 303 818 1686 | cell
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
>> robw@ascert.com
>> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
>> www.ascert.com
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
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--
Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
robw@ascert.com
+44 (0)20 7488 3470
www.ascert.com
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Re: Blog on OSGi
Posted by Kirk Knoernschild <pr...@kirkk.com>.
Rob,
Thank you for the comment on my blog posting. I've responded, but will
also take a moment to respond here, as well.
I didn't intend to come across as narrowly focused. In fact, I thought
I was pretty broadly focused and had made it clear I was talking about
OSGi for web application development. I felt I was pretty clear that
OSGi proper (Equinox and Felix) is ready for primetime, but the
tooling and application platform is not. I'm an OSGi advocate, but
it's unrealistic to expect an enterprise developer to glue together
the components necessary to develop an enterprise application using
OSGi. That's why we use products and frameworks - so we don't have to.
You can respectfully disagree with my argument, but the reality is
that until better tooling exists and the application platform exposes
the capabilities of OSGi, the enterprise is not going to use it. And I
wish they could!
I shall now take a retreat to write some code...:-)
Kirk Knoernschild
http://www.kirkk.com
http://techdistrict.kirkk.com
http://planet.kirkk.com
twitter: pragkirk
On Mar 26, 2009, at Mar 26, 1:04 AM, Rob Walker wrote:
> I added my 10c:
>
> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-path/#comment-7129
>
> When did developing sotfware and apps get reduced to mindless lego
> block assembly - where did all the real programmers go? I guess
> they're writing code not blogs!
>
> - R
>
> Dave McLoughlin wrote:
>> Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
>> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
>> th/
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
>>
>> 720 240 4530 | phone
>> 303 818 1686 | cell
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
> Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
> robw@ascert.com
> +44 (0)20 7488 3470
> www.ascert.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
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>
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Re: Blog on OSGi
Posted by Rob Walker <ro...@ascert.com>.
I added my 10c:
http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-path/#comment-7129
When did developing sotfware and apps get reduced to mindless lego block
assembly - where did all the real programmers go? I guess they're
writing code not blogs!
- R
Dave McLoughlin wrote:
> Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
>
> http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
> th/
>
>
>
> Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
>
> 720 240 4530 | phone
> 303 818 1686 | cell
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>
>
--
Ascert - Taking systems to the Edge
robw@ascert.com
+44 (0)20 7488 3470
www.ascert.com
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Blog on OSGi
Posted by Dave McLoughlin <Da...@openlogic.com>.
Someone may want to comment/respond on this article:
http://techdistrict.kirkk.com/2009/03/25/osgi-discontent-no-migration-pa
th/
Dave McLoughlin | OpenLogic
720 240 4530 | phone
303 818 1686 | cell
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Re: forced cache overwrite
Posted by "Richard S. Hall" <he...@ungoverned.org>.
On 3/25/09 2:10 PM, Joel Schuster wrote:
> Is there a config item that can force the felix-cache to be overwritten with what is in the bundle directory?
>
> I guess I'm not sure what this means:
>
> org.osgi.framework.storage.clean=onFirstInit
>
This deletes the bundle cache on startup, which should re-install them
from your bundle directory assuming all bundles in that directory you
wanted installed are mentioned in the auto properties of config.properties.
-> richard
> - Joel
>
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forced cache overwrite
Posted by Joel Schuster <jo...@Navsys.com>.
Is there a config item that can force the felix-cache to be overwritten with what is in the bundle directory?
I guess I'm not sure what this means:
org.osgi.framework.storage.clean=onFirstInit
- Joel
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Re: felix.auto.start.# and startup order
Posted by Skinner Chad <cs...@topeka.k12.ks.us>.
Yes, The easybeans agent bundle in felix.auto.start.2 is responsible
for starting the other bundles in the correct order. If I remove my
bundles from the application and the restart felix the JNDI lookup
errors go away. One question, is the startup performed on a single
thread? Is it possible that all of these are started in multiple
threads and the EZB bundles have not started completely before my
bundles are started? If this is the case how to I prevent my bundles
from starting before everything in the EZB bundle is started?
On Mar 25, 2009, at 1:29 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:
> Are the easybeans bundles started at all? From the below properties
> alone that isn't the case i think. So something else must be going on
> as well.
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Skinner Chad <cskinne1@topeka.k12.ks.us
> > wrote:
>> Sorry I messed up my description of how I have this configured. The
>> correct
>> information is:
>>
>> felix.auto.start.1 = <core osgi and felix bundles>
>> felix.auto.install.2 = <easybean bundles>
>> felix.auto.start.2 = <ow2 logging bundle> <easybeans agent bundle>
>> felix.auto.install.3 = <fileinstall bundle>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2009, at 9:51 AM, Skinner Chad wrote:
>>
>>> Can anyone tell me how the start levels affect the automatic start
>>> of
>>> bundles?
>>>
>>> I have the bundles setup as the following:
>>>
>>> felix.auto.install.1 = <core osgi and felix bundles>
>>> felix.auto.install.2 = <easybean bundles>
>>> felix.auto.install.3 = <fileinstall bundle>
>>> felix.startlevel.bundle = 4
>>> org.osgi.framework.startlevel=4
>>>
>>> The firsttime I start felix (clean cache) this appears to load in
>>> the
>>> proper order and if I drop my custom bundles into the directory
>>> for file
>>> install they are loaded as well. Every subsequent time I start
>>> felix it
>>> appears that my custom bundles in startlevel4 are being started
>>> before
>>> easybeans and I get some JNDI errors.
>>>
>>> Should the bundles not start in order (1, 2, 3, 4 ....)?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> -- Chad
>>> THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE TOPEKA PUBLIC SCHOOLS USD501 IN
>>> TOPEKA,
>>> KANSAS AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE. THE INFORMATION
>>> CONTAINED
>>> HEREIN MAY BE CONFIDENTIAL. IF THIS EMAIL HAS MISTAKENLY BEEN
>>> SENT TO YOU,
>>> PLEASE DELETE IT AFTER NOTIFYING US OF THE ERROR BY REPLY EMAIL OR
>>> BY
>>> CALLING 785-295-3000. UNAUTHORIZED FORWARDING, PRINTING, COPYING,
>>> DISTRIBUTING OR USING THE INFORMATION IN THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS
>>> STRICTLY
>>> PROHIBITED AND MAY BE UNLAWFUL.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE TOPEKA PUBLIC SCHOOLS USD501 IN
>> TOPEKA,
>> KANSAS AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE. THE INFORMATION
>> CONTAINED
>> HEREIN MAY BE CONFIDENTIAL. IF THIS EMAIL HAS MISTAKENLY BEEN SENT
>> TO YOU,
>> PLEASE DELETE IT AFTER NOTIFYING US OF THE ERROR BY REPLY EMAIL OR BY
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
>
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Re: felix.auto.start.# and startup order
Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.
Are the easybeans bundles started at all? From the below properties
alone that isn't the case i think. So something else must be going on
as well.
regards,
Karl
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Skinner Chad <cs...@topeka.k12.ks.us> wrote:
> Sorry I messed up my description of how I have this configured. The correct
> information is:
>
> felix.auto.start.1 = <core osgi and felix bundles>
> felix.auto.install.2 = <easybean bundles>
> felix.auto.start.2 = <ow2 logging bundle> <easybeans agent bundle>
> felix.auto.install.3 = <fileinstall bundle>
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2009, at 9:51 AM, Skinner Chad wrote:
>
>> Can anyone tell me how the start levels affect the automatic start of
>> bundles?
>>
>> I have the bundles setup as the following:
>>
>> felix.auto.install.1 = <core osgi and felix bundles>
>> felix.auto.install.2 = <easybean bundles>
>> felix.auto.install.3 = <fileinstall bundle>
>> felix.startlevel.bundle = 4
>> org.osgi.framework.startlevel=4
>>
>> The firsttime I start felix (clean cache) this appears to load in the
>> proper order and if I drop my custom bundles into the directory for file
>> install they are loaded as well. Every subsequent time I start felix it
>> appears that my custom bundles in startlevel4 are being started before
>> easybeans and I get some JNDI errors.
>>
>> Should the bundles not start in order (1, 2, 3, 4 ....)?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -- Chad
>> THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE TOPEKA PUBLIC SCHOOLS USD501 IN TOPEKA,
>> KANSAS AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED
>> HEREIN MAY BE CONFIDENTIAL. IF THIS EMAIL HAS MISTAKENLY BEEN SENT TO YOU,
>> PLEASE DELETE IT AFTER NOTIFYING US OF THE ERROR BY REPLY EMAIL OR BY
>> CALLING 785-295-3000. UNAUTHORIZED FORWARDING, PRINTING, COPYING,
>> DISTRIBUTING OR USING THE INFORMATION IN THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS STRICTLY
>> PROHIBITED AND MAY BE UNLAWFUL.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@felix.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@felix.apache.org
>>
>
> THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE TOPEKA PUBLIC SCHOOLS USD501 IN TOPEKA,
> KANSAS AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED
> HEREIN MAY BE CONFIDENTIAL. IF THIS EMAIL HAS MISTAKENLY BEEN SENT TO YOU,
> PLEASE DELETE IT AFTER NOTIFYING US OF THE ERROR BY REPLY EMAIL OR BY
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>
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--
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
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Re: felix.auto.start.# and startup order
Posted by Skinner Chad <cs...@topeka.k12.ks.us>.
Sorry I messed up my description of how I have this configured. The
correct information is:
felix.auto.start.1 = <core osgi and felix bundles>
felix.auto.install.2 = <easybean bundles>
felix.auto.start.2 = <ow2 logging bundle> <easybeans agent bundle>
felix.auto.install.3 = <fileinstall bundle>
On Mar 25, 2009, at 9:51 AM, Skinner Chad wrote:
> Can anyone tell me how the start levels affect the automatic start
> of bundles?
>
> I have the bundles setup as the following:
>
> felix.auto.install.1 = <core osgi and felix bundles>
> felix.auto.install.2 = <easybean bundles>
> felix.auto.install.3 = <fileinstall bundle>
> felix.startlevel.bundle = 4
> org.osgi.framework.startlevel=4
>
> The firsttime I start felix (clean cache) this appears to load in
> the proper order and if I drop my custom bundles into the directory
> for file install they are loaded as well. Every subsequent time I
> start felix it appears that my custom bundles in startlevel4 are
> being started before easybeans and I get some JNDI errors.
>
> Should the bundles not start in order (1, 2, 3, 4 ....)?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Chad
> THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE TOPEKA PUBLIC SCHOOLS USD501 IN
> TOPEKA, KANSAS AND IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE. THE
> INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN MAY BE CONFIDENTIAL. IF THIS EMAIL HAS
> MISTAKENLY BEEN SENT TO YOU, PLEASE DELETE IT AFTER NOTIFYING US OF
> THE ERROR BY REPLY EMAIL OR BY CALLING 785-295-3000. UNAUTHORIZED
> FORWARDING, PRINTING, COPYING, DISTRIBUTING OR USING THE INFORMATION
> IN THIS EMAIL MESSAGE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED AND MAY BE UNLAWFUL.
>
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