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Posted to dev@myfaces.apache.org by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> on 2007/10/29 10:54:39 UTC
[result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Hi!
The result of the vote is:
+1
Mike Kienenberger
Martin Marinschek
Matthias Wessendorf
Volker Weber
Gary VanMatre
Grant Smith
Cagaty Civici
Paul Spencer
Scott O'Bryan
Ernst Fastl
alvaro tovar (even if he don't know why ;-) )
Manfred Geiler
Bernd Bohmann
Ron Smits
I've abstaind from splitting "binding" and "non binding" votes as
everyone can see that this vote passed with amazing attendance.
Seems like there is some maven work waiting now .... :-)
Ciao,
Mario
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com>.
We're discussing two completely different concepts here.
One is an api for writing new components. For component developers.
One is a library of common renderkit-independent components for use in
JSF applications. For application developers.
Attempting to combine them is going to shortchange one side or the other.
Either the library is going to end up with dependencies on
renderkit-specific stuff, or the api is going to be severely limited
in what it provides.
On 10/31/07, Volker Weber <v....@inexso.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i don't understand what should go into the utils and what into the
> components parts.
>
> I think we can mix static utils with renderkid independent components
> in one library.
>
> for renderkid dependend compeonents we have already tomahawk, tobago
> and trinidad.
>
>
> Regards,
> Volker
>
> 2007/10/31, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>:
> > Since there where some discussions about what should be in this new project
> > and what not:
> > Renderkit independent components yes/no? Only static utils, convenient base
> > classes?
> >
> > I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
> >
> > Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
> > which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> > "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
> >
> > For the artifact names I propose:
> > "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
> >
> > The myfaces-jsfcommons-components artifact would have a compile dependency
> > to myfaces-jsfcommons-utils.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > --Manfred
> >
> >
> > * Myfaces Level Project ;-)
> > ** We should not use the Apache Commons terminology and call those artifacts
> > or sub projects "Components" for obvious reasons ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf < matzew@apache.org> wrote:
> > > True!
> > >
> > > ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
> > > And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
> > >
> > >
> > > -M
> > >
> > > On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de > wrote:
> > > > It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
> > commons.apache.org.
> > > > If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
> > > > myfaces project.
> > > >
> > > > And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
> > > > apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
> > > > users.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Volker
> > > >
> > > > 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
> > > > > Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion. But I
> > agree
> > > > > with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like the
> > > > > apache commons project
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler < manfred.geiler@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> > > > > > your fault of course.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> > > > > > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> > > > > > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > > > > > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
> > discussions
> > > > > > in the Geronimo community.
> > > > > > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> > > > > > alternatives? ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > > > > > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just wanted to sensitize.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Manfred
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits < mario@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > > > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > > Mario
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > http://www.irian.at
> > > > > > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > > > > > Development and Courses in English and
> > > > > > German
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Matthias Wessendorf
> > >
> > > further stuff:
> > > blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
> > > mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > http://www.irian.at
> > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > Development and Courses in English and
> > German
> >
> > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>.
The point is:
For myfaces-jsfcommons-components we must provide additional stuff in the
jar. You know: taglib, faces-config.xml, ...
This is what we do NOT want in the myfaces-jsfcommons-utils jars to
- keep it simple, and
- avoid unwanted side-effects
Please mind: Not yet sure, but the myfaces-jsfcommons-utils might propably
become a jar that myfaces-core-impl depends on in the future. So, we should
really keep all real components out of it. Which on the same time does not
forbid convenient Renderer utils in myfaces-jsfcommons-utils of course.
--Manfred
On 10/31/07, Volker Weber <v....@inexso.de> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> i don't understand what should go into the utils and what into the
> components parts.
>
> I think we can mix static utils with renderkid independent components
> in one library.
>
> for renderkid dependend compeonents we have already tomahawk, tobago
> and trinidad.
>
>
> Regards,
> Volker
>
> 2007/10/31, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>:
> > Since there where some discussions about what should be in this new
> project
> > and what not:
> > Renderkit independent components yes/no? Only static utils, convenient
> base
> > classes?
> >
> > I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
> >
> > Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
> > which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> > "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
> >
> > For the artifact names I propose:
> > "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
> >
> > The myfaces-jsfcommons-components artifact would have a compile
> dependency
> > to myfaces-jsfcommons-utils.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > --Manfred
> >
> >
> > * Myfaces Level Project ;-)
> > ** We should not use the Apache Commons terminology and call those
> artifacts
> > or sub projects "Components" for obvious reasons ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf < matzew@apache.org> wrote:
> > > True!
> > >
> > > ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
> > > And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
> > >
> > >
> > > -M
> > >
> > > On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de > wrote:
> > > > It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
> > commons.apache.org.
> > > > If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
> > > > myfaces project.
> > > >
> > > > And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
> > > > apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
> > > > users.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Volker
> > > >
> > > > 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
> > > > > Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion.
> But I
> > agree
> > > > > with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like
> the
> > > > > apache commons project
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler < manfred.geiler@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list -
> not
> > > > > > your fault of course.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to
> Native
> > > > > > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those
> names
> > > > > > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > > > > > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
> > discussions
> > > > > > in the Geronimo community.
> > > > > > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of
> suggest
> > > > > > alternatives? ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > > > > > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just wanted to sensitize.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Manfred
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits < mario@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons
> or
> > > > > > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > > Mario
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > http://www.irian.at
> > > > > > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > > > > > Development and Courses in English and
> > > > > > German
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Matthias Wessendorf
> > >
> > > further stuff:
> > > blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
> > > mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > http://www.irian.at
> > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > Development and Courses in English and
> > German
> >
> > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>
--
http://www.irian.at
Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
Development and Courses in English and
German
Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Volker Weber <v....@inexso.de>.
Hi,
i don't understand what should go into the utils and what into the
components parts.
I think we can mix static utils with renderkid independent components
in one library.
for renderkid dependend compeonents we have already tomahawk, tobago
and trinidad.
Regards,
Volker
2007/10/31, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>:
> Since there where some discussions about what should be in this new project
> and what not:
> Renderkit independent components yes/no? Only static utils, convenient base
> classes?
>
> I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
>
> Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
> which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
>
> For the artifact names I propose:
> "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
>
> The myfaces-jsfcommons-components artifact would have a compile dependency
> to myfaces-jsfcommons-utils.
>
> WDYT?
>
> --Manfred
>
>
> * Myfaces Level Project ;-)
> ** We should not use the Apache Commons terminology and call those artifacts
> or sub projects "Components" for obvious reasons ;-)
>
>
>
> On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf < matzew@apache.org> wrote:
> > True!
> >
> > ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
> > And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
> >
> >
> > -M
> >
> > On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de > wrote:
> > > It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
> commons.apache.org.
> > > If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
> > > myfaces project.
> > >
> > > And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
> > > apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
> > > users.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Volker
> > >
> > > 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
> > > > Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion. But I
> agree
> > > > with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like the
> > > > apache commons project
> > > >
> > > > Ron
> > > >
> > > > On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler < manfred.geiler@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> > > > > your fault of course.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> > > > > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> > > > > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> > > > >
> > > > > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > > > > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
> discussions
> > > > > in the Geronimo community.
> > > > > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> > > > > alternatives? ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > > > > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> > > > >
> > > > > Just wanted to sensitize.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Manfred
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > >
> http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > > > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits < mario@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Mario
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > http://www.irian.at
> > > > > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > > > > Development and Courses in English and
> > > > > German
> > > > >
> > > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matthias Wessendorf
> >
> > further stuff:
> > blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
> > mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> http://www.irian.at
> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> Development and Courses in English and
> German
>
> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com>.
Well, I think there's probably enough difference between the two goals
that we do need to separate projects, even though it contributes to
the "Yet Another MyFaces Subproject" quagmire. At least it's a step
in the right direction since we're looking at merging common code
rather than futher separation.
Let's leave the components -> api dependency out until such time that
it's explicitly needed.
On 10/31/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since there where some discussions about what should be in this new project
> and what not:
> Renderkit independent components yes/no? Only static utils, convenient base
> classes?
>
> I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
>
> Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
> which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
>
> For the artifact names I propose:
> "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
>
> The myfaces-jsfcommons-components artifact would have a compile dependency
> to myfaces-jsfcommons-utils.
>
> WDYT?
>
> --Manfred
>
>
> * Myfaces Level Project ;-)
> ** We should not use the Apache Commons terminology and call those artifacts
> or sub projects "Components" for obvious reasons ;-)
>
>
>
>
> On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf < matzew@apache.org> wrote:
> > True!
> >
> > ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
> > And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
> >
> >
> > -M
> >
> > On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de > wrote:
> > > It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
> commons.apache.org.
> > > If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
> > > myfaces project.
> > >
> > > And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
> > > apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
> > > users.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Volker
> > >
> > > 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
> > > > Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion. But I
> agree
> > > > with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like the
> > > > apache commons project
> > > >
> > > > Ron
> > > >
> > > > On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler < manfred.geiler@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> > > > > your fault of course.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> > > > > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> > > > > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> > > > >
> > > > > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > > > > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
> discussions
> > > > > in the Geronimo community.
> > > > > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> > > > > alternatives? ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > > > > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> > > > >
> > > > > Just wanted to sensitize.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Manfred
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > >
> http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > > > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits < mario@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Mario
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > http://www.irian.at
> > > > > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > > > > Development and Courses in English and
> > > > > German
> > > > >
> > > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matthias Wessendorf
> >
> > further stuff:
> > blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
> > mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> http://www.irian.at
> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> Development and Courses in English and
> German
>
> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Need summary of intent and contend to each MyFaces JSF Commons subproject
was (Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project)
Posted by Paul Spencer <pa...@mikon.com>.
Please summarize the intent and proposed contents of each subproject on
a wiki page. A common refactoring page already exists [1]. The
resulting pages should be moved in each project's site documentation
Paul Spencer
[1] http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/MyFaces_Commons_Refactoring
Simon Lessard wrote:
> I can live with that as well, the name speaks for itself, but it's soooo
> loooooong.
>
> ~ Simon
>
> On 10/31/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
>> I can live with that
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On 10/31/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Since there where some discussions about what should be in this new
>>> project and what not:
>>> Renderkit independent components yes/no? Only static utils, convenient
>>> base classes?
>>>
>>> I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
>>>
>>> Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
>>> which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
>>> "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
>>>
>>> For the artifact names I propose:
>>> "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
>>>
>>> The myfaces-jsfcommons-components artifact would have a compile
>>> dependency to myfaces-jsfcommons-utils.
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> --Manfred
>>>
>>>
>>> * Myfaces Level Project ;-)
>>> ** We should not use the Apache Commons terminology and call those
>>> artifacts or sub projects "Components" for obvious reasons ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf < matzew@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> True!
>>>>
>>>> ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
>>>> And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -M
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de > wrote:
>>>>> It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
>>>> commons.apache.org.
>>>>> If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
>>>>> myfaces project.
>>>>>
>>>>> And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
>>>>> apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
>>>>> users.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Volker
>>>>>
>>>>> 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
>>>>>> Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion.
>>>> But I agree
>>>>>> with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like
>>>> the
>>>>>> apache commons project
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler < manfred.geiler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list -
>>>> not
>>>>>>> your fault of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to
>>>> Native
>>>>>>> Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those
>>>> names
>>>>>>> could be offensive to Native Americans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
>>>>>>> discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
>>>> discussions
>>>>>>> in the Geronimo community.
>>>>>>> BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of
>>>> suggest
>>>>>>> alternatives? ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
>>>>>>> +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just wanted to sensitize.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Manfred
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits < mario@ops.co.at> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>>> How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons
>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> Mario
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
>>>>>>>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> http://www.irian.at
>>>>>>> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
>>>>>>> Development and Courses in English and
>>>>>>> German
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
>>>>>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Matthias Wessendorf
>>>>
>>>> further stuff:
>>>> blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
>>>> mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.irian.at
>>> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
>>> Development and Courses in English and
>>> German
>>>
>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>>
>
Need summary of intent and contend to each MyFaces JSF Commons subproject
was (Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project)
Posted by Paul Spencer <pa...@apache.org>.
Please summarize the intent and proposed contents of each subproject on
a wiki page. A common refactoring page already exists [1]. The
resulting pages should be moved in each project's site documentation
Paul Spencer
[1] http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/MyFaces_Commons_Refactoring
Simon Lessard wrote:
> I can live with that as well, the name speaks for itself, but it's soooo
> loooooong.
>
> ~ Simon
>
> On 10/31/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
>> I can live with that
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On 10/31/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Since there where some discussions about what should be in this new
>>> project and what not:
>>> Renderkit independent components yes/no? Only static utils, convenient
>>> base classes?
>>>
>>> I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
>>>
>>> Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
>>> which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
>>> "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
>>>
>>> For the artifact names I propose:
>>> "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
>>>
>>> The myfaces-jsfcommons-components artifact would have a compile
>>> dependency to myfaces-jsfcommons-utils.
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> --Manfred
>>>
>>>
>>> * Myfaces Level Project ;-)
>>> ** We should not use the Apache Commons terminology and call those
>>> artifacts or sub projects "Components" for obvious reasons ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf < matzew@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> True!
>>>>
>>>> ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
>>>> And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -M
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de > wrote:
>>>>> It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
>>>> commons.apache.org.
>>>>> If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
>>>>> myfaces project.
>>>>>
>>>>> And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
>>>>> apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
>>>>> users.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Volker
>>>>>
>>>>> 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
>>>>>> Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion.
>>>> But I agree
>>>>>> with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like
>>>> the
>>>>>> apache commons project
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler < manfred.geiler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list -
>>>> not
>>>>>>> your fault of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to
>>>> Native
>>>>>>> Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those
>>>> names
>>>>>>> could be offensive to Native Americans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
>>>>>>> discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
>>>> discussions
>>>>>>> in the Geronimo community.
>>>>>>> BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of
>>>> suggest
>>>>>>> alternatives? ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
>>>>>>> +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just wanted to sensitize.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Manfred
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits < mario@ops.co.at> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>>> How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons
>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> Mario
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
>>>>>>>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> http://www.irian.at
>>>>>>> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
>>>>>>> Development and Courses in English and
>>>>>>> German
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
>>>>>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Matthias Wessendorf
>>>>
>>>> further stuff:
>>>> blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
>>>> mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.irian.at
>>> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
>>> Development and Courses in English and
>>> German
>>>
>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>>
>
Name for "MyFaces Common Project" was Re: [result][vote] start up
the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Paul Spencer <pa...@apache.org>.
I like Manfred Geiler idea around MyFaces JSF Commons.
Paul Spencer
Simon Lessard wrote:
> I can live with that as well, the name speaks for itself, but it's soooo
> loooooong.
>
> ~ Simon
>
> On 10/31/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
>> I can live with that
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On 10/31/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Since there where some discussions about what should be in this new
>>> project and what not:
>>> Renderkit independent components yes/no? Only static utils, convenient
>>> base classes?
>>>
>>> I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
>>>
>>> Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
>>> which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
>>> "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
>>>
>>> For the artifact names I propose:
>>> "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
>>>
>>> The myfaces-jsfcommons-components artifact would have a compile
>>> dependency to myfaces-jsfcommons-utils.
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> --Manfred
>>>
>>>
>>> * Myfaces Level Project ;-)
>>> ** We should not use the Apache Commons terminology and call those
>>> artifacts or sub projects "Components" for obvious reasons ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf < matzew@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> True!
>>>>
>>>> ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
>>>> And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -M
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de > wrote:
>>>>> It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
>>>> commons.apache.org.
>>>>> If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
>>>>> myfaces project.
>>>>>
>>>>> And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
>>>>> apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
>>>>> users.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Volker
>>>>>
>>>>> 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
>>>>>> Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion.
>>>> But I agree
>>>>>> with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like
>>>> the
>>>>>> apache commons project
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler < manfred.geiler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list -
>>>> not
>>>>>>> your fault of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to
>>>> Native
>>>>>>> Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those
>>>> names
>>>>>>> could be offensive to Native Americans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
>>>>>>> discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
>>>> discussions
>>>>>>> in the Geronimo community.
>>>>>>> BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of
>>>> suggest
>>>>>>> alternatives? ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
>>>>>>> +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just wanted to sensitize.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Manfred
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits < mario@ops.co.at> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>>> How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons
>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> Mario
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
>>>>>>>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> http://www.irian.at
>>>>>>> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
>>>>>>> Development and Courses in English and
>>>>>>> German
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
>>>>>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Matthias Wessendorf
>>>>
>>>> further stuff:
>>>> blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
>>>> mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.irian.at
>>> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
>>> Development and Courses in English and
>>> German
>>>
>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>>
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Simon Lessard <si...@gmail.com>.
I can live with that as well, the name speaks for itself, but it's soooo
loooooong.
~ Simon
On 10/31/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
>
> I can live with that
>
> Ron
>
> On 10/31/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Since there where some discussions about what should be in this new
> > project and what not:
> > Renderkit independent components yes/no? Only static utils, convenient
> > base classes?
> >
> > I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
> >
> > Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
> > which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> > "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
> >
> > For the artifact names I propose:
> > "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
> >
> > The myfaces-jsfcommons-components artifact would have a compile
> > dependency to myfaces-jsfcommons-utils.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > --Manfred
> >
> >
> > * Myfaces Level Project ;-)
> > ** We should not use the Apache Commons terminology and call those
> > artifacts or sub projects "Components" for obvious reasons ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf < matzew@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > True!
> > >
> > > ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
> > > And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
> > >
> > >
> > > -M
> > >
> > > On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de > wrote:
> > > > It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
> > > commons.apache.org.
> > > > If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
> > > > myfaces project.
> > > >
> > > > And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
> > > > apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
> > > > users.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Volker
> > > >
> > > > 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
> > > > > Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion.
> > > But I agree
> > > > > with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like
> > > the
> > > > > apache commons project
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler < manfred.geiler@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list -
> > > not
> > > > > > your fault of course.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to
> > > Native
> > > > > > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those
> > > names
> > > > > > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > > > > > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
> > > discussions
> > > > > > in the Geronimo community.
> > > > > > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of
> > > suggest
> > > > > > alternatives? ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > > > > > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just wanted to sensitize.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Manfred
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits < mario@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons
> > > or
> > > > > > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > > Mario
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > http://www.irian.at
> > > > > > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > > > > > Development and Courses in English and
> > > > > > German
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Matthias Wessendorf
> > >
> > > further stuff:
> > > blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
> > > mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.irian.at
> > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > Development and Courses in English and
> > German
> >
> > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> >
>
>
>
> --
> I reject your reality and substitute my own
> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>.
I can live with that
Ron
On 10/31/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Since there where some discussions about what should be in this new
> project and what not:
> Renderkit independent components yes/no? Only static utils, convenient
> base classes?
>
> I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
>
> Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
> which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
>
> For the artifact names I propose:
> "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
>
> The myfaces-jsfcommons-components artifact would have a compile dependency
> to myfaces-jsfcommons-utils.
>
> WDYT?
>
> --Manfred
>
>
> * Myfaces Level Project ;-)
> ** We should not use the Apache Commons terminology and call those
> artifacts or sub projects "Components" for obvious reasons ;-)
>
>
>
> On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf < matzew@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > True!
> >
> > ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
> > And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
> >
> >
> > -M
> >
> > On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de > wrote:
> > > It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
> > commons.apache.org.
> > > If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
> > > myfaces project.
> > >
> > > And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
> > > apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
> > > users.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Volker
> > >
> > > 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
> > > > Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion. But
> > I agree
> > > > with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like
> > the
> > > > apache commons project
> > > >
> > > > Ron
> > > >
> > > > On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler < manfred.geiler@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> > > > >
> > > > > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list -
> > not
> > > > > your fault of course.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to
> > Native
> > > > > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those
> > names
> > > > > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> > > > >
> > > > > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > > > > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
> > discussions
> > > > > in the Geronimo community.
> > > > > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of
> > suggest
> > > > > alternatives? ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > > > > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> > > > >
> > > > > Just wanted to sensitize.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Manfred
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > > > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits < mario@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons
> > or
> > > > > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Mario
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > http://www.irian.at
> > > > > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > > > > Development and Courses in English and
> > > > > German
> > > > >
> > > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matthias Wessendorf
> >
> > further stuff:
> > blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
> > mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.irian.at
> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> Development and Courses in English and
> German
>
> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>
--
I reject your reality and substitute my own
--- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Volker Weber <v....@inexso.de>.
Hi,
see inline
2007/10/31, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>:
> A taglib and a faces-config in the META-INF are loaded/registered
> automatically.
loading/register converters, validators, components, ... has no
inluence to the application as long they are not used. Other things
like ViewHandler, ... should not included in the faces-config as mario
wrote.
> And as I already mentioned, it should be possible to use the commons utils
> from the core impl. Automatically loading extensions(!) is not what we want
> when using the myfaces core implementation.
We have already shared for this. When introducing the shared code
there was a discussion about/against putting this into a own jar with
dependency in impl. The result was against, because is should be
possible to replace the two RI jars by just two myfaces jars.
I don't like the repackaging of shared into impl and tomahawk, but i
don't think this commons-utils should be a renamed shared?
> There is some stuff in shared that makes sense to be moved to commons utils.
> So this is not only theoretical.
>
> And don't forget about all those (renderkit-independent!) converters and
> validators. People might argue for putting them into a jsfcommons components
> artifact. What about the Joda converter that Matthias suggested? What is the
> reason it should go into Trinidad? It is not renderkit-specific or somehow
> related to Trinidad. So, a perfect candidate for jsfcommons-components,
> right?
Converters and Validators should go into the commons, as long there is
nothing of the faces-config which makes influence to a running app
just py putting this jar into classpath.
> (There would even be place for a separate jsfcommons-converters artifacts,
> IMHO)
>
> BTW, I do not understand why some of you are so scared by multiple
> jsfcommons artifacts.
> The Apache Commons Proper consists of 35 different "Components" and nobody
> cares. Quite the contrary, everybody is glad there is not only one bloated
> commons.jar when he/she needs just commons-logging or some of the DbUtils,
> right?
I'm not scared about multiple jsf-commons artifacts, i'ts perfectly ok
for me to have a jsfcommons-validators, jsfcommons-converters,
jsfcommons-components (if someone could describe what is going in
here), and so on.
I didn't know before that jsfcommons-utils was proposed as
jsf-developer utils and i don't know why we need this as replacement
for shared.
Imho the myfaces-jsf-commons should contain classes and tools for
application developers.
I have no problem in making shared a own artifact, but i don't like
the name commons-util for that.
I also don't like having validators, converters and maybe other non
components in a *-components artifact.
Regards,
Volker
>
> --Manfred
>
>
>
> On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de> wrote:
> > What is the problem having a taglib in the jar?
> >
> > 2007/10/31, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/31/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > Hi!
> > > > >
> > > > > > which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts**
> called
> > > > > > "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons
> Components"
> > > > >
> > > > > I suggest that I prepare an initial setup, and check it in, so that
> > > > > there is some concrete stuff we can talk about.
> > > > > Ok?
> > > > I still don't get why we should increase the number of modules here.
> > > > Two artifacts means two jars, no?
> > > Yes, sure.
> > >
> > >
> > > > And then, what is a Component? I think we agreed that we just want to
> > > > add render-less components, no? Else it has to go into tomahawk. The
> > > > Commons should not be just a "component-library without (the dreaded)
> > > > shared".
> > > >
> > > > Is a UrlNavigationHandler a Component then or a util? It has no
> > > > component yet, but what if it has one in the future?
> > > > I know, we then can simply just add this component to the Components,
> > > > but why should we split the stuff?
> > > >
> > > > In this case I'd have a
> > > org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler
> > > > package where everything lives in.
> > > >
> > > > org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler (the
> api)
> > > > org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler.impl
> > > >
> org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler.component
> > > > etc
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Also renderkit independent "components" need a taglib in the META-INF
> dir.
> > > This is the main difference between a "component" and a goodie class a
> user
> > > can decide to use or not.
> > >
> > > --Manfred
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> http://www.irian.at
> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> Development and Courses in English and
> German
>
> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>.
yes, fine!
please consider the following structure:
myfaces-jsfcommons
|---- myfaces-jsfcommons-api
|---- myfaces-jsfcommons-impl
|---- myfaces-jsfcommons-sandbox
(we must avoid the name "myfaces-commons" for there was once a project
with that name - see maven repo!)
api = the classes and interfaces, that users will directly use (ie.
import) in their code (= compile scope dependency)
impl = internal implementation classes, users will need during runtime
only (= runtime scope dependency)
furthermore:
- api classes and interfaces must not change between two bugfix
releases (eg. from 1.0.0 to 1.0.1)
- api classes and interfaces might vary (be extended) between two
minor releases (eg. from 1.0.3 to 1.1.0) - BUT only backwards
compatible!
- api classes and interfaces might be totally different between two
major releases (eg. from 1.5.3 to 2.0.0) - BUT need not ;-)
- impl classes (and interfaces) can be changed, added, removed,
refactored whenever needed
This is no unnecessary effort IMHO. jsfcommons can only be successful
and widely accepted if users can confide in a stable API that is not
subject to change on every single release. In a community driven
project this is only possible with some rules. And systematically
separating API from Impl classes in different JARs make these rules
very simple and intuitive.
--Manfred
On Nov 28, 2007 10:41 PM, Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> it is that case, that Bernd I and meet next weekend.
> If you guys don't mind, we start the commons project, as discussed here.
>
> Like maven-stuff etc.
>
> -Matthias
>
>
> On Nov 13, 2007 7:27 PM, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > > BTW, I do not understand why some of you are so scared by multiple
> > > jsfcommons artifacts.
> > I see it being much work to maintain ... but anyway, since you are the
> > one who is going to do the initial maven work :-) I do no longer argue
> > against.
> > So, can we start now ;-) ?
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Mario
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Matthias Wessendorf
>
> further stuff:
> blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
> sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf
>
> mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
>
--
http://www.irian.at
Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
Development and Courses in English and
German
Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
Hi,
it is that case, that Bernd I and meet next weekend.
If you guys don't mind, we start the commons project, as discussed here.
Like maven-stuff etc.
-Matthias
On Nov 13, 2007 7:27 PM, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> Hi!
> > BTW, I do not understand why some of you are so scared by multiple
> > jsfcommons artifacts.
> I see it being much work to maintain ... but anyway, since you are the
> one who is going to do the initial maven work :-) I do no longer argue
> against.
> So, can we start now ;-) ?
>
> Ciao,
> Mario
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf
mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>.
Yes, I hope I can spend some time at the end of the week.
I will setup the initial maven dirs and stuff. I will also add the
sandbox we spoke about.
So, hopefully, next week we will have some space that wants to get
filled with cool Java lines...
--Manfred
On Nov 13, 2007 7:27 PM, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> Hi!
> > BTW, I do not understand why some of you are so scared by multiple
> > jsfcommons artifacts.
> I see it being much work to maintain ... but anyway, since you are the
> one who is going to do the initial maven work :-) I do no longer argue
> against.
> So, can we start now ;-) ?
>
> Ciao,
> Mario
>
>
--
http://www.irian.at
Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
Development and Courses in English and
German
Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Hi!
> BTW, I do not understand why some of you are so scared by multiple
> jsfcommons artifacts.
I see it being much work to maintain ... but anyway, since you are the
one who is going to do the initial maven work :-) I do no longer argue
against.
So, can we start now ;-) ?
Ciao,
Mario
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>.
A taglib and a faces-config in the META-INF are loaded/registered
automatically.
And as I already mentioned, it should be possible to use the commons utils
from the core impl. Automatically loading extensions(!) is not what we want
when using the myfaces core implementation.
There is some stuff in shared that makes sense to be moved to commons utils.
So this is not only theoretical.
And don't forget about all those (renderkit-independent!) converters and
validators. People might argue for putting them into a jsfcommons components
artifact. What about the Joda converter that Matthias suggested? What is the
reason it should go into Trinidad? It is not renderkit-specific or somehow
related to Trinidad. So, a perfect candidate for jsfcommons-components,
right?
(There would even be place for a separate jsfcommons-converters artifacts,
IMHO)
BTW, I do not understand why some of you are so scared by multiple
jsfcommons artifacts.
The Apache Commons Proper consists of 35 different "Components" and nobody
cares. Quite the contrary, everybody is glad there is not only one bloated
commons.jar when he/she needs just commons-logging or some of the DbUtils,
right?
--Manfred
On 10/31/07, Volker Weber <v....@inexso.de> wrote:
>
> What is the problem having a taglib in the jar?
>
> 2007/10/31, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>:
> >
> >
> > On 10/31/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > Hi!
> > > >
> > > > > which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts**
> called
> > > > > "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons
> Components"
> > > >
> > > > I suggest that I prepare an initial setup, and check it in, so that
> > > > there is some concrete stuff we can talk about.
> > > > Ok?
> > > I still don't get why we should increase the number of modules here.
> > > Two artifacts means two jars, no?
> > Yes, sure.
> >
> >
> > > And then, what is a Component? I think we agreed that we just want to
> > > add render-less components, no? Else it has to go into tomahawk. The
> > > Commons should not be just a "component-library without (the dreaded)
> > > shared".
> > >
> > > Is a UrlNavigationHandler a Component then or a util? It has no
> > > component yet, but what if it has one in the future?
> > > I know, we then can simply just add this component to the Components,
> > > but why should we split the stuff?
> > >
> > > In this case I'd have a
> > org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler
> > > package where everything lives in.
> > >
> > > org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler (the api)
> > > org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler.impl
> > > org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler.component
> > > etc
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Also renderkit independent "components" need a taglib in the META-INF
> dir.
> > This is the main difference between a "component" and a goodie class a
> user
> > can decide to use or not.
> >
> > --Manfred
> >
> >
>
--
http://www.irian.at
Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
Development and Courses in English and
German
Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Volker Weber <v....@inexso.de>.
What is the problem having a taglib in the jar?
2007/10/31, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>:
>
>
> On 10/31/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > >
> > > > which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> > > > "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
> > >
> > > I suggest that I prepare an initial setup, and check it in, so that
> > > there is some concrete stuff we can talk about.
> > > Ok?
> > I still don't get why we should increase the number of modules here.
> > Two artifacts means two jars, no?
> Yes, sure.
>
>
> > And then, what is a Component? I think we agreed that we just want to
> > add render-less components, no? Else it has to go into tomahawk. The
> > Commons should not be just a "component-library without (the dreaded)
> > shared".
> >
> > Is a UrlNavigationHandler a Component then or a util? It has no
> > component yet, but what if it has one in the future?
> > I know, we then can simply just add this component to the Components,
> > but why should we split the stuff?
> >
> > In this case I'd have a
> org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler
> > package where everything lives in.
> >
> > org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler (the api)
> > org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler.impl
> > org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler.component
> > etc
> >
> >
>
>
> Also renderkit independent "components" need a taglib in the META-INF dir.
> This is the main difference between a "component" and a goodie class a user
> can decide to use or not.
>
> --Manfred
>
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 10/31/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
>
> Hi!
> >
> > > which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> > > "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
> >
> > I suggest that I prepare an initial setup, and check it in, so that
> > there is some concrete stuff we can talk about.
> > Ok?
> I still don't get why we should increase the number of modules here.
> Two artifacts means two jars, no?
Yes, sure.
And then, what is a Component? I think we agreed that we just want to
> add render-less components, no? Else it has to go into tomahawk. The
> Commons should not be just a "component-library without (the dreaded)
> shared".
>
> Is a UrlNavigationHandler a Component then or a util? It has no
> component yet, but what if it has one in the future?
> I know, we then can simply just add this component to the Components,
> but why should we split the stuff?
>
> In this case I'd have a org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler
> package where everything lives in.
>
> org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler (the api)
> org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler.impl
> org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler.component
> etc
>
>
Also renderkit independent "components" need a taglib in the META-INF dir.
This is the main difference between a "component" and a goodie class a user
can decide to use or not.
--Manfred
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Hi!
>
> > which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> > "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
>
> I suggest that I prepare an initial setup, and check it in, so that
> there is some concrete stuff we can talk about.
> Ok?
I still don't get why we should increase the number of modules here.
Two artifacts means two jars, no?
And then, what is a Component? I think we agreed that we just want to
add render-less components, no? Else it has to go into tomahawk. The
Commons should not be just a "component-library without (the dreaded)
shared".
Is a UrlNavigationHandler a Component then or a util? It has no
component yet, but what if it has one in the future?
I know, we then can simply just add this component to the Components,
but why should we split the stuff?
In this case I'd have a org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler
package where everything lives in.
org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler (the api)
org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler.impl
org.apache.myfaces.commons.urlNavigationHandler.component
etc
Ciao,
Mario
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 10/31/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> > I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
> >
> > Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
> > which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> > "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
> >
> > For the artifact names I propose:
> > "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
> I think this makes stuff again too complicated to be maintained in the
> future.
> You have two additional projects/modules, with maybe separate release
> cycles - and even if not, you have to release them both at the same time.
> Documentation and site is splitted, pom work is required to do twice, etc
>
>
We do not necessarily need separate release cycles. At least at the
beginning.
They would have a common parent pom of course.
So, once set up, there is not really additional effort during development or
releasing.
I suggest that I prepare an initial setup, and check it in, so that there is
some concrete stuff we can talk about.
Ok?
--Manfred
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Hi!
> I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
>
> Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
> which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
> "MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
>
> For the artifact names I propose:
> "myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
I think this makes stuff again too complicated to be maintained in the
future.
You have two additional projects/modules, with maybe separate release
cycles - and even if not, you have to release them both at the same time.
Documentation and site is splitted, pom work is required to do twice, etc
My preference is to stick with just one MyFaces JSF Commons project -
<artifactId>myfaces-jsfcommons</artifactId>
Ciao,
Mario
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>.
Since there where some discussions about what should be in this new project
and what not:
Renderkit independent components yes/no? Only static utils, convenient base
classes?
I have a suggestion that would solve this (and the naming as well):
Let's start a new MLP* called "MyFaces JSF Commons"
which is itself an "umbrella" project for two artifacts** called
"MyFaces JSF Commons Utils" and "MyFaces JSF Commons Components"
For the artifact names I propose:
"myfaces-jsfcommons-utils" and "myfaces-jsfcommons-components"
The myfaces-jsfcommons-components artifact would have a compile dependency
to myfaces-jsfcommons-utils.
WDYT?
--Manfred
* Myfaces Level Project ;-)
** We should not use the Apache Commons terminology and call those artifacts
or sub projects "Components" for obvious reasons ;-)
On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf < matzew@apache.org> wrote:
>
> True!
>
> ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
> And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
>
>
> -M
>
> On 10/31/07, Volker Weber < v.weber@inexso.de > wrote:
> > It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
> commons.apache.org.
> > If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
> > myfaces project.
> >
> > And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
> > apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
> > users.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Volker
> >
> > 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
> > > Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion. But I
> agree
> > > with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like the
> > > apache commons project
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > > On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler < manfred.geiler@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> > > >
> > > > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> > > > your fault of course.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> > > > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> > > > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> > > >
> > > > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > > > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
> discussions
> > > > in the Geronimo community.
> > > > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> > > > alternatives? ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > > > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> > > >
> > > > Just wanted to sensitize.
> > > >
> > > > --Manfred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits < mario@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Mario
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.irian.at
> > > > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > > > Development and Courses in English and
> > > > German
> > > >
> > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> >
>
>
> --
> Matthias Wessendorf
>
> further stuff:
> blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
> mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
>
--
http://www.irian.at
Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
Development and Courses in English and
German
Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>.
Grins
I give up :) as far as I am concerned call it that (booring!!! :) )
Ron
On 10/31/07, Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> True!
>
> ...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
> And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
>
>
> -M
>
> On 10/31/07, Volker Weber <v....@inexso.de> wrote:
> > It is a apache commons like project, just not located in
> commons.apache.org.
> > If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
> > myfaces project.
> >
> > And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
> > apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
> > users.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Volker
> >
> > 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
> > > Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion. But I
> agree
> > > with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like the
> > > apache commons project
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > > On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> > > >
> > > > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> > > > your fault of course.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> > > > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> > > > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> > > >
> > > > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > > > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such
> discussions
> > > > in the Geronimo community.
> > > > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> > > > alternatives? ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > > > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> > > >
> > > > Just wanted to sensitize.
> > > >
> > > > --Manfred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Mario
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.irian.at
> > > > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > > > Development and Courses in English and
> > > > German
> > > >
> > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> >
>
>
> --
> Matthias Wessendorf
>
> further stuff:
> blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
> mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
>
--
I reject your reality and substitute my own
--- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
True!
...and also the name "common" is very common... :-)
And therefore not reserved for Apache Commons ...
-M
On 10/31/07, Volker Weber <v....@inexso.de> wrote:
> It is a apache commons like project, just not located in commons.apache.org.
> If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
> myfaces project.
>
> And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
> apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
> users.
>
>
> Regards,
> Volker
>
> 2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
> > Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion. But I agree
> > with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like the
> > apache commons project
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> > >
> > > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> > > your fault of course.
> > >
> > > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> > > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> > > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> > >
> > > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
> > > in the Geronimo community.
> > > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> > > alternatives? ;-)
> > >
> > > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> > >
> > > Just wanted to sensitize.
> > >
> > > --Manfred
> > >
> > >
> > > [1]
> > http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > > >
> > > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Mario
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.irian.at
> > > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > > Development and Courses in English and
> > > German
> > >
> > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Volker Weber <v....@inexso.de>.
It is a apache commons like project, just not located in commons.apache.org.
If it is named myfaces-jsf-commons it should clear enough this is a
myfaces project.
And imho it should contain tools, components, ... for jsf users like
apache-commons-beanutils contains java-collection stuff for java
users.
Regards,
Volker
2007/10/30, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>:
> Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion. But I agree
> with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like the
> apache commons project
>
> Ron
>
> On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> >
> > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> > your fault of course.
> >
> > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> >
> > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
> > in the Geronimo community.
> > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> > alternatives? ;-)
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> >
> > Just wanted to sensitize.
> >
> > --Manfred
> >
> >
> > [1]
> http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits < ron@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > Hi!
> > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > >
> > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Mario
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.irian.at
> > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > Development and Courses in English and
> > German
> >
> > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> I reject your reality and substitute my own
> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>.
Grins, I so do not want to start a 'poco sensitive' discussion. But I agree
with several other writers here, that commons sounds too much like the
apache commons project
Ron
On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
>
> Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> your fault of course.
>
> Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> could be offensive to Native Americans.
>
> And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
> in the Geronimo community.
> BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> alternatives? ;-)
>
> Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
>
> Just wanted to sensitize.
>
> --Manfred
>
>
> [1] http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
>
>
>
> On 10/30/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> >
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > Hi!
> > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > >
> > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Mario
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>
>
> --
> http://www.irian.at
> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> Development and Courses in English and
> German
>
> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>
--
I reject your reality and substitute my own
--- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Grant Smith <wo...@gmail.com>.
On 10/30/07, Simon Lessard <si...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why not Apache Caribbean?
And risk offending the Atlantic sea snail ? I would think not !!
--
Grant Smith
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
:-)
On 10/30/07, Simon Lessard <si...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why not Apache Caribbean? Since it's most likely going to be composed of
> features taken from Trinidad and Tobago it would fit quite well (probably
> would probably get quite a lot of additional search engine hits :P )
>
>
> ~ Simon
>
>
> On 10/30/07, Andrew Robinson <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Unless the code is really bad, is it really derogatory at all? Apache
> > is a native American name, so projects using that theme go well. I'm
> > not aware of the other discussions, but I did come from a school that
> > had to change its name because of non-native Americans complaining
> > about native American rights and know the gist.
> >
> > Why would Native Americans be offended by their own tribe and location
> > names? If anything it keeps people thinking of their people group and
> > their culture which should be viewed as a good thing, I would hope.
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> > >
> > > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> > > your fault of course.
> > >
> > > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> > > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> > > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> > >
> > > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
> > > in the Geronimo community.
> > > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> > > alternatives? ;-)
> > >
> > > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> > >
> > > Just wanted to sensitize.
> > >
> > > --Manfred
> > >
> > >
> > > [1]
> http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > > Hi!
> > > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > > >
> > > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Mario
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.irian.at
> > > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > > Development and Courses in English and
> > > German
> > >
> > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> > >
> >
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Simon Lessard <si...@gmail.com>.
Why not Apache Caribbean? Since it's most likely going to be composed of
features taken from Trinidad and Tobago it would fit quite well (probably
would probably get quite a lot of additional search engine hits :P )
~ Simon
On 10/30/07, Andrew Robinson <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Unless the code is really bad, is it really derogatory at all? Apache
> is a native American name, so projects using that theme go well. I'm
> not aware of the other discussions, but I did come from a school that
> had to change its name because of non-native Americans complaining
> about native American rights and know the gist.
>
> Why would Native Americans be offended by their own tribe and location
> names? If anything it keeps people thinking of their people group and
> their culture which should be viewed as a good thing, I would hope.
>
> On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> >
> > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> > your fault of course.
> >
> > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> >
> > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
> > in the Geronimo community.
> > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> > alternatives? ;-)
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> >
> > Just wanted to sensitize.
> >
> > --Manfred
> >
> >
> > [1] http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > Hi!
> > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > >
> > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Mario
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.irian.at
> > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > Development and Courses in English and
> > German
> >
> > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> >
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Yep, KIFS - Keep It Flat and Simple.
For the same reason we should not put the Facelets project under
tomahawk - even though it may have tomahawk in its name. With the
projects names Manfred proposed this is easily possible.
Ciao,
Mario
Scott O'Bryan schrieb:
> Yeah, and I don't know what's going to happen with the RCF project,
> guess it's up to the community to decide, but I don't see why it needs
> to be a subproject of Trinidad so much as a subproject of MyFaces with
> a dependency on Trinidad. :) Most all of it's dependencies are on
> API packages in Trinidad and I imagine that any impl dependencies
> would have to be resolved anyway.
>
> Scott
>
> Mario Ivankovits wrote:
>> Hi!
>>> 2. Following some old discussion, we don't know if extra components
>>> libaries are going to stay as MyFaces subprojects forever. For
>>> instance, when RCF get out of incubation, it might be strange to
>>> have a subsubproject of MyFaces since RCF is a subproject of
>>> Trinidad. If we can get a nice modular infrastructure including only
>>> renderkit independent at first, but then adding some optional module
>>> for PPR, skinning and such, then we could move to a TLP and have
>>> Tomahawk, Tobago, Trinidad and RCF be simple subprojects all
>>> depending only on that new common library. Hopefully, it would also
>>> ensure perfect interoperability between all of them at the same time.
>> I have no plans to ever move TLP with anything I do here in MyFaces
>> land, I feel very comfortable under the MyFaces umbrella and I also
>> do not understand (yet) why we should leave.
>> MyFaces = JSF@Apache - IMHO that should be the direction. Maybe we
>> have to split the ML later on, but that is another story.
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Mario
>>
>>
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Scott O'Bryan <da...@gmail.com>.
Yeah, and I don't know what's going to happen with the RCF project,
guess it's up to the community to decide, but I don't see why it needs
to be a subproject of Trinidad so much as a subproject of MyFaces with a
dependency on Trinidad. :) Most all of it's dependencies are on API
packages in Trinidad and I imagine that any impl dependencies would have
to be resolved anyway.
Scott
Mario Ivankovits wrote:
> Hi!
>> 2. Following some old discussion, we don't know if extra components
>> libaries are going to stay as MyFaces subprojects forever. For
>> instance, when RCF get out of incubation, it might be strange to have
>> a subsubproject of MyFaces since RCF is a subproject of Trinidad. If
>> we can get a nice modular infrastructure including only renderkit
>> independent at first, but then adding some optional module for PPR,
>> skinning and such, then we could move to a TLP and have Tomahawk,
>> Tobago, Trinidad and RCF be simple subprojects all depending only on
>> that new common library. Hopefully, it would also ensure perfect
>> interoperability between all of them at the same time.
> I have no plans to ever move TLP with anything I do here in MyFaces
> land, I feel very comfortable under the MyFaces umbrella and I also do
> not understand (yet) why we should leave.
> MyFaces = JSF@Apache - IMHO that should be the direction. Maybe we
> have to split the ML later on, but that is another story.
>
> Ciao,
> Mario
>
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Hi!
> 2. Following some old discussion, we don't know if extra components
> libaries are going to stay as MyFaces subprojects forever. For
> instance, when RCF get out of incubation, it might be strange to have
> a subsubproject of MyFaces since RCF is a subproject of Trinidad. If
> we can get a nice modular infrastructure including only renderkit
> independent at first, but then adding some optional module for PPR,
> skinning and such, then we could move to a TLP and have Tomahawk,
> Tobago, Trinidad and RCF be simple subprojects all depending only on
> that new common library. Hopefully, it would also ensure perfect
> interoperability between all of them at the same time.
I have no plans to ever move TLP with anything I do here in MyFaces
land, I feel very comfortable under the MyFaces umbrella and I also do
not understand (yet) why we should leave.
MyFaces = JSF@Apache - IMHO that should be the direction. Maybe we have
to split the ML later on, but that is another story.
Ciao,
Mario
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Simon Lessard <si...@gmail.com>.
Hmm I don't know. I think we cannot really use MyFaces Commons for 2
reasons:
1. When I hear Commons I can only think of Jakarta;
2. Following some old discussion, we don't know if extra components libaries
are going to stay as MyFaces subprojects forever. For instance, when RCF get
out of incubation, it might be strange to have a subsubproject of MyFaces
since RCF is a subproject of Trinidad. If we can get a nice modular
infrastructure including only renderkit independent at first, but then
adding some optional module for PPR, skinning and such, then we could move
to a TLP and have Tomahawk, Tobago, Trinidad and RCF be simple subprojects
all depending only on that new common library. Hopefully, it would also
ensure perfect interoperability between all of them at the same time.
~ Simon
On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> I am not sure why we can't call it simply "MyFaces Commons"? I think the
> name is pretty fine.
>
> But to put something additional into the fire: MyFaces Essentials, or,
> to move on with islands, MyFaces Papeete
>
> Ciao,
> Mario
>
>
> > Pretty hard to discuss for non-Americans,
> > I can't speak for Manfred, but I accepted the discussions, said OK and
> > moved forward.
> >
> > -M
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Andrew Robinson <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Unless the code is really bad, is it really derogatory at all? Apache
> >> is a native American name, so projects using that theme go well. I'm
> >> not aware of the other discussions, but I did come from a school that
> >> had to change its name because of non-native Americans complaining
> >> about native American rights and know the gist.
> >>
> >> Why would Native Americans be offended by their own tribe and location
> >> names? If anything it keeps people thinking of their people group and
> >> their culture which should be viewed as a good thing, I would hope.
> >>
> >> On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> >>>
> >>> Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> >>> your fault of course.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> >>> Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> >>> could be offensive to Native Americans.
> >>>
> >>> And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> >>> discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
> >>> in the Geronimo community.
> >>> BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> >>> alternatives? ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> >>> +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> >>>
> >>> Just wanted to sensitize.
> >>>
> >>> --Manfred
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [1] http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 10/30/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> >>>>>> something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---
> >>>>> Mario
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
> >>>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> http://www.irian.at
> >>> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> >>> Development and Courses in English and
> >>> German
> >>>
> >>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
> Mario Ivankovits
> Software Engineering
>
> OPS EDV VertriebsgesmbH
> A-1120 Wien, Michael-Bernhard-Gasse 10
>
> Firmenbuch Nr.: FN51233v, Handelsgericht Wien
> Tel.: +43-1-8938810; Fax: +43-1-8938810/3700
> http://www.ops.co.at
>
> E-Mail: mario@ops.co.at
> Skype: mario_ivankovits
>
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
It was already set, isn't it ???
On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I am not sure why we can't call it simply "MyFaces Commons"? I think the
> name is pretty fine.
>
> But to put something additional into the fire: MyFaces Essentials, or,
> to move on with islands, MyFaces Papeete
>
> Ciao,
> Mario
>
>
> > Pretty hard to discuss for non-Americans,
> > I can't speak for Manfred, but I accepted the discussions, said OK and
> > moved forward.
> >
> > -M
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Andrew Robinson <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Unless the code is really bad, is it really derogatory at all? Apache
> >> is a native American name, so projects using that theme go well. I'm
> >> not aware of the other discussions, but I did come from a school that
> >> had to change its name because of non-native Americans complaining
> >> about native American rights and know the gist.
> >>
> >> Why would Native Americans be offended by their own tribe and location
> >> names? If anything it keeps people thinking of their people group and
> >> their culture which should be viewed as a good thing, I would hope.
> >>
> >> On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> >>>
> >>> Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> >>> your fault of course.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> >>> Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> >>> could be offensive to Native Americans.
> >>>
> >>> And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> >>> discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
> >>> in the Geronimo community.
> >>> BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> >>> alternatives? ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> >>> +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> >>>
> >>> Just wanted to sensitize.
> >>>
> >>> --Manfred
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [1] http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 10/30/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> >>>>>> something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---
> >>>>> Mario
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
> >>>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> http://www.irian.at
> >>> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> >>> Development and Courses in English and
> >>> German
> >>>
> >>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
> Mario Ivankovits
> Software Engineering
>
> OPS EDV VertriebsgesmbH
> A-1120 Wien, Michael-Bernhard-Gasse 10
>
> Firmenbuch Nr.: FN51233v, Handelsgericht Wien
> Tel.: +43-1-8938810; Fax: +43-1-8938810/3700
> http://www.ops.co.at
>
> E-Mail: mario@ops.co.at
> Skype: mario_ivankovits
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Hi!
I am not sure why we can't call it simply "MyFaces Commons"? I think the
name is pretty fine.
But to put something additional into the fire: MyFaces Essentials, or,
to move on with islands, MyFaces Papeete
Ciao,
Mario
> Pretty hard to discuss for non-Americans,
> I can't speak for Manfred, but I accepted the discussions, said OK and
> moved forward.
>
> -M
>
> On 10/30/07, Andrew Robinson <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Unless the code is really bad, is it really derogatory at all? Apache
>> is a native American name, so projects using that theme go well. I'm
>> not aware of the other discussions, but I did come from a school that
>> had to change its name because of non-native Americans complaining
>> about native American rights and know the gist.
>>
>> Why would Native Americans be offended by their own tribe and location
>> names? If anything it keeps people thinking of their people group and
>> their culture which should be viewed as a good thing, I would hope.
>>
>> On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
>>>
>>> Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
>>> your fault of course.
>>>
>>> Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
>>> Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
>>> could be offensive to Native Americans.
>>>
>>> And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
>>> discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
>>> in the Geronimo community.
>>> BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
>>> alternatives? ;-)
>>>
>>> Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
>>> +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
>>>
>>> Just wanted to sensitize.
>>>
>>> --Manfred
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/30/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>>> How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
>>>>>> something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Mario
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> I reject your reality and substitute my own
>>>> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.irian.at
>>> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
>>> Development and Courses in English and
>>> German
>>>
>>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
--
mit freundlichen Grüßen
Mario Ivankovits
Software Engineering
OPS EDV VertriebsgesmbH
A-1120 Wien, Michael-Bernhard-Gasse 10
Firmenbuch Nr.: FN51233v, Handelsgericht Wien
Tel.: +43-1-8938810; Fax: +43-1-8938810/3700
http://www.ops.co.at
E-Mail: mario@ops.co.at
Skype: mario_ivankovits
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
Pretty hard to discuss for non-Americans,
I can't speak for Manfred, but I accepted the discussions, said OK and
moved forward.
-M
On 10/30/07, Andrew Robinson <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Unless the code is really bad, is it really derogatory at all? Apache
> is a native American name, so projects using that theme go well. I'm
> not aware of the other discussions, but I did come from a school that
> had to change its name because of non-native Americans complaining
> about native American rights and know the gist.
>
> Why would Native Americans be offended by their own tribe and location
> names? If anything it keeps people thinking of their people group and
> their culture which should be viewed as a good thing, I would hope.
>
> On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
> >
> > Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> > your fault of course.
> >
> > Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> > Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> > could be offensive to Native Americans.
> >
> > And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> > discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
> > in the Geronimo community.
> > BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> > alternatives? ;-)
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> > +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
> >
> > Just wanted to sensitize.
> >
> > --Manfred
> >
> >
> > [1] http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > > Hi!
> > > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > > >
> > > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Mario
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.irian.at
> > Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> > Development and Courses in English and
> > German
> >
> > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
> >
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Andrew Robinson <an...@gmail.com>.
Unless the code is really bad, is it really derogatory at all? Apache
is a native American name, so projects using that theme go well. I'm
not aware of the other discussions, but I did come from a school that
had to change its name because of non-native Americans complaining
about native American rights and know the gist.
Why would Native Americans be offended by their own tribe and location
names? If anything it keeps people thinking of their people group and
their culture which should be viewed as a good thing, I would hope.
On 10/30/07, Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
>
> Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
> your fault of course.
>
> Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
> Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
> could be offensive to Native Americans.
>
> And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
> discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
> in the Geronimo community.
> BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
> alternatives? ;-)
>
> Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
> +/-0 for names related to Native Americans
>
> Just wanted to sensitize.
>
> --Manfred
>
>
> [1] http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
>
>
>
> On 10/30/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> > How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
> >
> >
> > On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > > Hi!
> > > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > > >
> > > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Mario
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > I reject your reality and substitute my own
> > --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
>
>
> --
> http://www.irian.at
> Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
> Development and Courses in English and
> German
>
> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Manfred Geiler <ma...@gmail.com>.
Oh no! Not that discussion again... :-(
Ron, you might not be aware of former discussions on this list - not
your fault of course.
Yes, there are many ASF projects which have names related to Native
Americans, BUT there are also many people concerned that those names
could be offensive to Native Americans.
And MyFaces is - of course - not the only ASF project where such
discussions took place: see [1] to get an idea about such discussions
in the Geronimo community.
BTW, did you know they once had "Tomahawk" in their list of suggest
alternatives? ;-)
Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is
+/-0 for names related to Native Americans
Just wanted to sensitize.
--Manfred
[1] http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxSBOX/why-apache-geronimo.html
On 10/30/07, Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org> wrote:
> How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
>
>
> On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> > >
> > Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
> >
> > ---
> > Mario
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> I reject your reality and substitute my own
> --- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
--
http://www.irian.at
Your JSF powerhouse - JSF Consulting,
Development and Courses in English and
German
Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Ron Smits <ro...@ronsmits.org>.
How about Tsalagi? that is the name of the cherokee language
On 10/30/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
>
> Hi!
> > How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> > something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
> >
> Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
>
> ---
> Mario
>
>
--
I reject your reality and substitute my own
--- Adam Savage, the mythbusters
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Hi!
> How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
> something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
>
Could you give an "ASF style" name for example?
---
Mario
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Andrew Robinson <an...@gmail.com>.
How about a new "ASF style" name instead of basic, commons or
something else that could be more easily misconstrued?
-A
On 10/29/07, Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think there's any hard rule that all projects have to be
> prefixed with MyFaces.
> But then, I also don't have any problem with it being associated with
> Tomahawk or MyFaces (in the name).
>
> On 10/29/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > > I agree that MyFaces Basics is too MyFaces-Core-esque. Tomahawk
> > > Basics or JSF Basics would be better choices.
> > >
> > Hmmm ... I think the "MyFaces JSF Basics" is the only option then. As
> > far as I know the token "MyFaces" needs to be in there as it is a
> > project of the "MyFaces" project.
> >
> > Personally I think the token "tomahawk" suggest that the Basic module is
> > meant as something related to tomahawk only then.
> >
> > Also we should clearly state in the future that the term MyFaces does
> > not not necessarily mean a module works only with the MyFaces JSF
> > implementation nor with tomahawk only. But I think this is something we
> > already do as good as we can, e.g. with Apache MyFaces Trinidad, Apache
> > MyFaces Orchestra.
> > Btw, Tobago is an exception here, they call their project just Tobago
> > instead of "Apache MyFaces Tobago" as it should be ... I think.
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Mario
> >
> >
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com>.
I don't think there's any hard rule that all projects have to be
prefixed with MyFaces.
But then, I also don't have any problem with it being associated with
Tomahawk or MyFaces (in the name).
On 10/29/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> Hi!
> > I agree that MyFaces Basics is too MyFaces-Core-esque. Tomahawk
> > Basics or JSF Basics would be better choices.
> >
> Hmmm ... I think the "MyFaces JSF Basics" is the only option then. As
> far as I know the token "MyFaces" needs to be in there as it is a
> project of the "MyFaces" project.
>
> Personally I think the token "tomahawk" suggest that the Basic module is
> meant as something related to tomahawk only then.
>
> Also we should clearly state in the future that the term MyFaces does
> not not necessarily mean a module works only with the MyFaces JSF
> implementation nor with tomahawk only. But I think this is something we
> already do as good as we can, e.g. with Apache MyFaces Trinidad, Apache
> MyFaces Orchestra.
> Btw, Tobago is an exception here, they call their project just Tobago
> instead of "Apache MyFaces Tobago" as it should be ... I think.
>
> Ciao,
> Mario
>
>
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at>.
Hi!
> I agree that MyFaces Basics is too MyFaces-Core-esque. Tomahawk
> Basics or JSF Basics would be better choices.
>
Hmmm ... I think the "MyFaces JSF Basics" is the only option then. As
far as I know the token "MyFaces" needs to be in there as it is a
project of the "MyFaces" project.
Personally I think the token "tomahawk" suggest that the Basic module is
meant as something related to tomahawk only then.
Also we should clearly state in the future that the term MyFaces does
not not necessarily mean a module works only with the MyFaces JSF
implementation nor with tomahawk only. But I think this is something we
already do as good as we can, e.g. with Apache MyFaces Trinidad, Apache
MyFaces Orchestra.
Btw, Tobago is an exception here, they call their project just Tobago
instead of "Apache MyFaces Tobago" as it should be ... I think.
Ciao,
Mario
Re: [result][vote] start up the MyFaces Commons project
Posted by Mike Kienenberger <mk...@gmail.com>.
Just a note that all votes are binding, except when we're voting on
something specifically delegated to PMC members, those being releases,
committers, and pmc members.
I agree that MyFaces Basics is too MyFaces-Core-esque. Tomahawk
Basics or JSF Basics would be better choices.
On 10/29/07, Mario Ivankovits <ma...@ops.co.at> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> The result of the vote is:
>
> +1
> Mike Kienenberger
> Martin Marinschek
> Matthias Wessendorf
> Volker Weber
> Gary VanMatre
> Grant Smith
> Cagaty Civici
> Paul Spencer
> Scott O'Bryan
> Ernst Fastl
> alvaro tovar (even if he don't know why ;-) )
> Manfred Geiler
> Bernd Bohmann
> Ron Smits
>
> I've abstaind from splitting "binding" and "non binding" votes as
> everyone can see that this vote passed with amazing attendance.
>
> Seems like there is some maven work waiting now .... :-)
>
> Ciao,
> Mario
>
>