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Posted to dev@datasketches.apache.org by Jelani Nelson <mi...@berkeley.edu> on 2019/10/01 21:03:51 UTC
google hangout today?
Is there a data sketches meeting today? I requested to join via Google
Hangouts but haven't received a response yet.
-Jelani
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Re: google hangout today?
Posted by Furkan KAMACI <fu...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I was going to send a similar e-mail like Dave's. One of the mottos of
Apache is:
"If it didn't happen on a mailing list, it didn't happen." [1]
I understand the need of a video conference, but it should be discussed on
the mail list. On the other hand, recording such meetings and sharing the
link via mail list complies with another motto:
"Put community before code." [1]
[1] https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html
Kind Regards,
Furkan KAMACI
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:01 AM leerho <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you Dave and Kenn, for pointing this issue out. This is a holdover
> from when we were a really small group and we do need to figure out how to
> move forward to address more openness and larger communities. I will open
> a discussion thread on this topic to explore different options.
>
> Lee.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 12:51 PM Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > +1, very well said. To be clear, by "decisions need to be brought back to
> > the list" I would say that the actual decision, including a chance for
> > others not on the call to have differing opinions, happens on list.
> >
> > My understanding is that this is a longstanding regular meeting across
> > multiple orgs contributing to Datasketches. Integrating it appropriately
> > with Apache mailing list practices should be resolved during incubation.
> I
> > think a start is to emphasize this practice of proposing and finalizing
> > decisions on the list, including rationale/technical summaries that will
> > allow an asynchronous reader to follow and contribute to the trajectory
> of
> > the project.
> >
> > Sometimes this is taken as some kind of rule forbidding efficient work
> > style, and it is not that. Most projects have some off-list *work*
> > happening in the sense that there are often people who may whiteboard,
> pair
> > program, talk about their own goals amongst themselves. That's fine and
> > good IMO as long as the list is still the authoritative and informative
> > record of what is going on with the project.
> >
> > Kenn
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 12:10 PM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi -
> > >
> > > Having private synchronous discussions is not in good alignment with
> the
> > > Apache Way.
> > >
> > > Why? It is exclusive of the larger community and anyone who is curious
> > > about the project will not understand what is going on. If someone is
> in
> > > China or Australia they are automatically excluded. If someone is
> working
> > > on DataSketches on their own time or weekends they are excluded.
> > >
> > > If you must have these discussions then any decisions need to be
> brought
> > > back to the dev@ mailing list along with the rationale.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > > On Oct 1, 2019, at 2:03 PM, Jelani Nelson <mi...@berkeley.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is there a data sketches meeting today? I requested to join via
> Google
> > > > Hangouts but haven't received a response yet.
> > > >
> > > > -Jelani
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@datasketches.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@datasketches.apache.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@datasketches.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@datasketches.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: google hangout today?
Posted by leerho <le...@gmail.com>.
Thank you Dave and Kenn, for pointing this issue out. This is a holdover
from when we were a really small group and we do need to figure out how to
move forward to address more openness and larger communities. I will open
a discussion thread on this topic to explore different options.
Lee.
On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 12:51 PM Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1, very well said. To be clear, by "decisions need to be brought back to
> the list" I would say that the actual decision, including a chance for
> others not on the call to have differing opinions, happens on list.
>
> My understanding is that this is a longstanding regular meeting across
> multiple orgs contributing to Datasketches. Integrating it appropriately
> with Apache mailing list practices should be resolved during incubation. I
> think a start is to emphasize this practice of proposing and finalizing
> decisions on the list, including rationale/technical summaries that will
> allow an asynchronous reader to follow and contribute to the trajectory of
> the project.
>
> Sometimes this is taken as some kind of rule forbidding efficient work
> style, and it is not that. Most projects have some off-list *work*
> happening in the sense that there are often people who may whiteboard, pair
> program, talk about their own goals amongst themselves. That's fine and
> good IMO as long as the list is still the authoritative and informative
> record of what is going on with the project.
>
> Kenn
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 12:10 PM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi -
> >
> > Having private synchronous discussions is not in good alignment with the
> > Apache Way.
> >
> > Why? It is exclusive of the larger community and anyone who is curious
> > about the project will not understand what is going on. If someone is in
> > China or Australia they are automatically excluded. If someone is working
> > on DataSketches on their own time or weekends they are excluded.
> >
> > If you must have these discussions then any decisions need to be brought
> > back to the dev@ mailing list along with the rationale.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > > On Oct 1, 2019, at 2:03 PM, Jelani Nelson <mi...@berkeley.edu>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there a data sketches meeting today? I requested to join via Google
> > > Hangouts but haven't received a response yet.
> > >
> > > -Jelani
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@datasketches.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@datasketches.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@datasketches.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@datasketches.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: google hangout today?
Posted by Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org>.
+1, very well said. To be clear, by "decisions need to be brought back to
the list" I would say that the actual decision, including a chance for
others not on the call to have differing opinions, happens on list.
My understanding is that this is a longstanding regular meeting across
multiple orgs contributing to Datasketches. Integrating it appropriately
with Apache mailing list practices should be resolved during incubation. I
think a start is to emphasize this practice of proposing and finalizing
decisions on the list, including rationale/technical summaries that will
allow an asynchronous reader to follow and contribute to the trajectory of
the project.
Sometimes this is taken as some kind of rule forbidding efficient work
style, and it is not that. Most projects have some off-list *work*
happening in the sense that there are often people who may whiteboard, pair
program, talk about their own goals amongst themselves. That's fine and
good IMO as long as the list is still the authoritative and informative
record of what is going on with the project.
Kenn
On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 12:10 PM Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi -
>
> Having private synchronous discussions is not in good alignment with the
> Apache Way.
>
> Why? It is exclusive of the larger community and anyone who is curious
> about the project will not understand what is going on. If someone is in
> China or Australia they are automatically excluded. If someone is working
> on DataSketches on their own time or weekends they are excluded.
>
> If you must have these discussions then any decisions need to be brought
> back to the dev@ mailing list along with the rationale.
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave
>
> > On Oct 1, 2019, at 2:03 PM, Jelani Nelson <mi...@berkeley.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Is there a data sketches meeting today? I requested to join via Google
> > Hangouts but haven't received a response yet.
> >
> > -Jelani
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@datasketches.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@datasketches.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@datasketches.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@datasketches.apache.org
>
>
Re: google hangout today?
Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org>.
Hi -
Having private synchronous discussions is not in good alignment with the Apache Way.
Why? It is exclusive of the larger community and anyone who is curious about the project will not understand what is going on. If someone is in China or Australia they are automatically excluded. If someone is working on DataSketches on their own time or weekends they are excluded.
If you must have these discussions then any decisions need to be brought back to the dev@ mailing list along with the rationale.
Best Regards,
Dave
> On Oct 1, 2019, at 2:03 PM, Jelani Nelson <mi...@berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> Is there a data sketches meeting today? I requested to join via Google
> Hangouts but haven't received a response yet.
>
> -Jelani
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@datasketches.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@datasketches.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@datasketches.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@datasketches.apache.org
Re: google hangout today?
Posted by Jelani Nelson <mi...@berkeley.edu>.
Never mind, I'm in now!
On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 2:03 PM Jelani Nelson <mi...@berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> Is there a data sketches meeting today? I requested to join via Google
> Hangouts but haven't received a response yet.
>
> -Jelani
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@datasketches.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@datasketches.apache.org
Re: google hangout today?
Posted by Edo Liberty <ed...@gmail.com>.
Same here...
Giving the team a few more minutes to join in.
On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 2:04 PM Jelani Nelson <mi...@berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Is there a data sketches meeting today? I requested to join via Google
> Hangouts but haven't received a response yet.
>
> -Jelani
>