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Posted to dev@poi.apache.org by David Fisher <df...@jmlafferty.com> on 2008/04/23 19:53:58 UTC
[VOTE] Re: Rejection of any ENCUMBERED Microsoft Donation to POI
Hi Sam,
On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> While I, too, can't speak FOR Microsoft, I am quite willing to speak
> WITH Microsoft. Particularly if the request was modestly scoped, and
> if doing so would sort the issue right from the start.
It looks like someone from Microsoft has shown up to discuss our
issues with the OSP, patent grants, etc. Should we respond with a
clear list as distilled from this very long and often emotional
discussion, or should we wait until they come back with answers.
I think that it would help us to have a list of statements. Its clear
to me that you might be the best person to make that list.
I propose a vote of consensus - Do we (A) present a list of questions
as a reply to Sam Ramji's posting "ApachePOI Email", or (B) wait for
Microsoft's answers as Sam Ramji promises?
If (A) becomes our choice, then I think we should reach a consensus
about the list, one that is rather inclusive. I certainly think we
should make sure to ask all of Andy's questions. I also am not sure
that his are all the questions that need to be asked.
I am (A) +1. and (B) 0.
Regards,
Dave
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Re: [VOTE] Re: Rejection of any ENCUMBERED Microsoft Donation to POI
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:15 PM, David Fisher <df...@jmlafferty.com> wrote:
> Hi Sam,
>
> On Apr 23, 2008, at 4:39 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:53 PM, David Fisher <df...@jmlafferty.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Sam,
> > >
> > > On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> > >
> > > > While I, too, can't speak FOR Microsoft, I am quite willing to speak
> > > > WITH Microsoft. Particularly if the request was modestly scoped, and
> > > > if doing so would sort the issue right from the start.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It looks like someone from Microsoft has shown up to discuss our issues
> > > with the OSP, patent grants, etc. Should we respond with a clear list as
> > > distilled from this very long and often emotional discussion, or should
> we
> > > wait until they come back with answers.
> > >
> > > I think that it would help us to have a list of statements. Its clear to
> me
> > > that you might be the best person to make that list.
> > >
> > > I propose a vote of consensus - Do we (A) present a list of questions as
> a
> > > reply to Sam Ramji's posting "ApachePOI Email", or (B) wait for
> Microsoft's
> > > answers as Sam Ramji promises?
> > >
> > > If (A) becomes our choice, then I think we should reach a consensus
> about
> > > the list, one that is rather inclusive. I certainly think we should make
> > > sure to ask all of Andy's questions. I also am not sure that his are all
> the
> > > questions that need to be asked.
> > >
> > > I am (A) +1. and (B) 0.
> >
> > I find it mildly disconcerting that this email is posted to dev@poi
> > and yet refers to Sam Ramji in the third person. I'd suggest that a
> > reasonable precursor to either questions or answers would be a dialog.
> >
> > My hope is that longer term that the dialog continues. Sam has
> > indicated (on this very list -- hi Sam!) that his personal goal is to
> > make the specification easy to adopt by open source projects. Well,
> > I've never met a spec that I didn't have questions on. If this
> > mailing list could become the place where developers and spec authors
> > were to discuss any questions of interpretation that may arise: that
> > would, in my opinion, be a good outcome.
>
> Sure, but do we need to repeat the previous 100 emails, or otherwise
> summarize the issues raised that are still open?
I see no need to repeat the previous 100 emails.
> Andy's last 4 responses left me no feeling that we had any definite plan -
> a repeat of his "self-immolation" threat was not helpful.
I take it you are a glass is half-full kinda guy?
> Shouldn't the end result of this discussion be an action list. My proposal
> is to create such an ending to this thread now!
Creating a false sense of urgency is in nobody's best interest. Trust
me, I understand that this has been frustrating to all concerned.
> I'm not ready to do a summary myself, and completely ready to just listen
> to the discussion for awhile. It is not worth my effort to be treated like a
> mole in Andy's whack-a-mole approach to discussion.
Nor is in anybody's best interest for anybody here for this to be re-escalated.
> Do whatever, I'm sure it will be the right thing, as you've always been a
> gentleman.
Thanks!
Sam Ramji showing up here is a very positive sign. He is under no
obligation to do so. I suggest he be warmly welcomed.
I also suggest that you go back and reread Andy's recent notes.
Significant progress has been made recently.
> Regards,
> Dave
- Sam Ruby
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Re: [VOTE] Re: Rejection of any ENCUMBERED Microsoft Donation to POI
Posted by David Fisher <df...@jmlafferty.com>.
Hi Sam,
On Apr 23, 2008, at 4:39 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:53 PM, David Fisher
> <df...@jmlafferty.com> wrote:
>> Hi Sam,
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>
>>> While I, too, can't speak FOR Microsoft, I am quite willing to speak
>>> WITH Microsoft. Particularly if the request was modestly scoped,
>>> and
>>> if doing so would sort the issue right from the start.
>>
>> It looks like someone from Microsoft has shown up to discuss our
>> issues
>> with the OSP, patent grants, etc. Should we respond with a clear
>> list as
>> distilled from this very long and often emotional discussion, or
>> should we
>> wait until they come back with answers.
>>
>> I think that it would help us to have a list of statements. Its
>> clear to me
>> that you might be the best person to make that list.
>>
>> I propose a vote of consensus - Do we (A) present a list of
>> questions as a
>> reply to Sam Ramji's posting "ApachePOI Email", or (B) wait for
>> Microsoft's
>> answers as Sam Ramji promises?
>>
>> If (A) becomes our choice, then I think we should reach a consensus
>> about
>> the list, one that is rather inclusive. I certainly think we should
>> make
>> sure to ask all of Andy's questions. I also am not sure that his
>> are all the
>> questions that need to be asked.
>>
>> I am (A) +1. and (B) 0.
>
> I find it mildly disconcerting that this email is posted to dev@poi
> and yet refers to Sam Ramji in the third person. I'd suggest that a
> reasonable precursor to either questions or answers would be a dialog.
>
> My hope is that longer term that the dialog continues. Sam has
> indicated (on this very list -- hi Sam!) that his personal goal is to
> make the specification easy to adopt by open source projects. Well,
> I've never met a spec that I didn't have questions on. If this
> mailing list could become the place where developers and spec authors
> were to discuss any questions of interpretation that may arise: that
> would, in my opinion, be a good outcome.
Sure, but do we need to repeat the previous 100 emails, or otherwise
summarize the issues raised that are still open?
Andy's last 4 responses left me no feeling that we had any definite
plan - a repeat of his "self-immolation" threat was not helpful.
Shouldn't the end result of this discussion be an action list. My
proposal is to create such an ending to this thread now!
I'm not ready to do a summary myself, and completely ready to just
listen to the discussion for awhile. It is not worth my effort to be
treated like a mole in Andy's whack-a-mole approach to discussion.
Do whatever, I'm sure it will be the right thing, as you've always
been a gentleman.
Regards,
Dave
>
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@poi.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@poi.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Re: Rejection of any ENCUMBERED Microsoft Donation to POI
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:53 PM, David Fisher <df...@jmlafferty.com> wrote:
> Hi Sam,
>
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>
> > While I, too, can't speak FOR Microsoft, I am quite willing to speak
> > WITH Microsoft. Particularly if the request was modestly scoped, and
> > if doing so would sort the issue right from the start.
>
> It looks like someone from Microsoft has shown up to discuss our issues
> with the OSP, patent grants, etc. Should we respond with a clear list as
> distilled from this very long and often emotional discussion, or should we
> wait until they come back with answers.
>
> I think that it would help us to have a list of statements. Its clear to me
> that you might be the best person to make that list.
>
> I propose a vote of consensus - Do we (A) present a list of questions as a
> reply to Sam Ramji's posting "ApachePOI Email", or (B) wait for Microsoft's
> answers as Sam Ramji promises?
>
> If (A) becomes our choice, then I think we should reach a consensus about
> the list, one that is rather inclusive. I certainly think we should make
> sure to ask all of Andy's questions. I also am not sure that his are all the
> questions that need to be asked.
>
> I am (A) +1. and (B) 0.
I find it mildly disconcerting that this email is posted to dev@poi
and yet refers to Sam Ramji in the third person. I'd suggest that a
reasonable precursor to either questions or answers would be a dialog.
My hope is that longer term that the dialog continues. Sam has
indicated (on this very list -- hi Sam!) that his personal goal is to
make the specification easy to adopt by open source projects. Well,
I've never met a spec that I didn't have questions on. If this
mailing list could become the place where developers and spec authors
were to discuss any questions of interpretation that may arise: that
would, in my opinion, be a good outcome.
- Sam Ruby
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