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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> on 2023/04/11 08:16:31 UTC

[VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

# Proposed policy

* Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
platform on JDK 8.

* From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.

* Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
22.

## Background

The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
continued on JDK 8.

This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
[1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
[2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
(for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
additional JDK requirements.

## Notes

* Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
nb-javac and other dependencies allow.

* This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
they need to.

* Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.

* Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html

* Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
PMC members wanting to manage those releases.

* The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
cluster.

[1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
[2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692


## Procedure

This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.

Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
member to help with voting admin.

Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.

Thanks,

Neil

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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Javier Llorente <ja...@opensuse.org>.
+1

El martes, 11 de abril de 2023 10:16:31 (CEST) Neil C Smith escribió:
> # Proposed policy
> 
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
> 
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
> 
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
> 
> ## Background
> 
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
> 
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
> 
> ## Notes
> 
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
> 
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
> 
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
> 
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
> 
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
> 
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
> 
> 
> ## Procedure
> 
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
> 
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
> 
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Neil
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists


-- 
Javier Llorente

Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
As already sent to the other thread

> Tbh, I'd rather stick with Java8 for now and then move to Java 17 at some
> point in time.
> 
> Java11 is not as much used in the industry, it was kind of totally ignored
> by some companies and bigger projects. It also imo doesn't bring that much
> of a benefit for the code base. Plus the eco system is rather slowly
> moving. There are still too many Java 8 projects actively being used and
> maintained in the industry. And we still have Android as was mentioned.
> 
> There will be the time to move away from Java8, but right now it might be a
> tad too early imo.
> 
> So I'm rather
> -0.5

LieGrue,
strub



> Am 11.04.2023 um 10:16 schrieb Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>:
> 
> # Proposed policy
> 
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
> 
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
> 
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
> 
> ## Background
> 
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
> 
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
> 
> ## Notes
> 
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
> 
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
> 
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
> 
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
> 
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
> 
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
> 
> 
> ## Procedure
> 
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
> 
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
> 
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Neil
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 


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RE: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Wim Maerevoet <Wi...@dekimo.com>.
+1

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> 
Verzonden: dinsdag 11 april 2023 10:17
Aan: dev <de...@netbeans.apache.org>
Onderwerp: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

# Proposed policy

* Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the platform on JDK 8.

* From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.

* Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and 22.

## Background

The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have continued on JDK 8.

This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10 [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the additional JDK requirements.

## Notes

* Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as nb-javac and other dependencies allow.

* This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required, but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as they need to.

* Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.

* Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html

* Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any PMC members wanting to manage those releases.

* The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform cluster.

[1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
[2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692


## Procedure

This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.

Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC member to help with voting admin.

Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.

Thanks,

Neil

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists




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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Giles Winstanley <st...@snaq.net>.
+1  (non-binding)

On 11/04/2023 09:16, Neil C Smith wrote:
> # Proposed policy
>
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
>
> ## Background
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
>
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
>
> ## Notes
>
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
>
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>
>
> ## Procedure
>
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
>
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>


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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
+1 (binding)

Thanks all, closing the vote.


On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 at 09:16, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> # Proposed policy
>
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
>
> ## Background
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
>
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
>
> ## Notes
>
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
>
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>
>
> ## Procedure
>
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
>
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil

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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu.INVALID>.
+1 (binding)

Am Dienstag, dem 11.04.2023 um 09:16 +0100 schrieb Neil C Smith:
> # Proposed policy
> 
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
> 
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
> 
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
> 
> ## Background
> 
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
> 
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
> 
> ## Notes
> 
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
> 
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
> 
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
> 
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
> 
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
> 
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
> 
> 
> ## Procedure
> 
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
> 
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
> 
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Neil
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Thilina Ranathunga <r....@gmail.com>.
+1 binding

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 1:47 PM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:

> # Proposed policy
>
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
>
> ## Background
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
>
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
>
> ## Notes
>
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
>
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>
>
> ## Procedure
>
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
>
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Tito Sanchez <tm...@gmail.com>.
+1

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 2:17 AM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:

> # Proposed policy
>
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
>
> ## Background
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
>
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
>
> ## Notes
>
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
>
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>
>
> ## Procedure
>
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
>
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
+1

Scott

> On Apr 11, 2023, at 11:12 PM, Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> -1 (binding)
> 
> # TL;DR
> 
> Vote for NetBeans Platform Portability, vote -1! Let's start real engineering 
> work on "dropping JDK8" in a compatible way!
> 
> # Background
> 
> http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Portability
> 
> # Giving up on the NetBeans Platform
> 
> Not supporting wide spectrum of JDKs hurts NetBeans Platform usability. Tools 
> like Jackpot (built on top of NetBeans Platform) shall run on wide spectrum of 
> JDKs not only on the "latest". 
> 
> # Dropping something that works
> 
> Right now all NetBeans Platform code (up to Jackpot) runs on JDK 8. Dropping 
> JDK8 is a "needless" activity. Let the new code focus on modern JDKs, but 
> don't drop the old, working one! Moreover I volunteer to maintain what ever 
> needs to be maintained to keep JDK 8 CI tests 
> 
> # Multi-JDK NetBeans Platform
> 
> It is clear we need to turn NetBeans into multi JDK project. Some part of it 
> need to run on newest JDK (to use latest APIs), some part of it can run on 
> older (to increase portability).
> 
> There is a handbook describing how to do it: http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/
> AlternativeImplementation - it has just been ignored instead of used.
> 
> # Catharsis
> 
> It was clear for years that JDK8 will need to be dropped as well as JDK11, 
> etc. For all such time I and group of former NetBeans engineers were proposing 
> solutions that would allow us to keep NetBeans portability and allow us to 
> move forward.
> 
> (Almost) all our attempts were blocked making the problem bigger and bigger. 
> As a result we have the catharsis here. A typical strategy of those who follow 
> only their own vision and ignore everything else. If you vote +1 now, you are 
> supporting this manipulative, non-engineering technique.
> 
> # Ignorance of the Platform
> 
> The former NetBeans engineers worshiped backward compatibility. And they still 
> do. Svatopluk Dědic offered help resolving any issues related to support of old 
> as well as new JDKs. I have asked for three quests that would be solved by 
> using new JDK APIs to demonstrate how to use http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/
> AlternativeImplementation in practice. Result? Silence, ignorance or insults 
> (of Sváťa - active developer with more contributions than anyone else!).
> 
> Is it because of being focused only on the IDE? Is it because simple solutions 
> are more attractive? Vote -1 and let get the project back to solid engineering 
> it was know for quarter of the century!
> 
> Dne úterý 11. dubna 2023 10:16:31 CEST, Neil C Smith napsal(a):
>> # Proposed policy
>> 
>> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
>> platform on JDK 8.
>> 
>> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
>> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>> 
>> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
>> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
>> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
>> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
>> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
>> 22.
>> 
>> ## Background
>> 
>> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
>> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
>> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
>> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
>> continued on JDK 8.
>> 
>> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
>> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
>> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
>> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
>> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
>> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
>> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
>> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
>> additional JDK requirements.
>> 
>> ## Notes
>> 
>> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
>> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
>> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
>> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>> 
>> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
>> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
>> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
>> they need to.
>> 
>> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
>> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
>> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
>> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>> 
>> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
>> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
>> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
>> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>> 
>> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
>> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
>> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>> 
>> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
>> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
>> cluster.
>> 
>> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
>> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>> 
>> 
>> ## Procedure
>> 
>> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>> 
>> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
>> member to help with voting admin.
>> 
>> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Neil
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>> 
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com>.
-1 (binding)

# TL;DR

Vote for NetBeans Platform Portability, vote -1! Let's start real engineering 
work on "dropping JDK8" in a compatible way!

# Background

http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Portability

# Giving up on the NetBeans Platform

Not supporting wide spectrum of JDKs hurts NetBeans Platform usability. Tools 
like Jackpot (built on top of NetBeans Platform) shall run on wide spectrum of 
JDKs not only on the "latest". 

# Dropping something that works

Right now all NetBeans Platform code (up to Jackpot) runs on JDK 8. Dropping 
JDK8 is a "needless" activity. Let the new code focus on modern JDKs, but 
don't drop the old, working one! Moreover I volunteer to maintain what ever 
needs to be maintained to keep JDK 8 CI tests 

# Multi-JDK NetBeans Platform

It is clear we need to turn NetBeans into multi JDK project. Some part of it 
need to run on newest JDK (to use latest APIs), some part of it can run on 
older (to increase portability).

There is a handbook describing how to do it: http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/
AlternativeImplementation - it has just been ignored instead of used.

# Catharsis

It was clear for years that JDK8 will need to be dropped as well as JDK11, 
etc. For all such time I and group of former NetBeans engineers were proposing 
solutions that would allow us to keep NetBeans portability and allow us to 
move forward.

(Almost) all our attempts were blocked making the problem bigger and bigger. 
As a result we have the catharsis here. A typical strategy of those who follow 
only their own vision and ignore everything else. If you vote +1 now, you are 
supporting this manipulative, non-engineering technique.

# Ignorance of the Platform

The former NetBeans engineers worshiped backward compatibility. And they still 
do. Svatopluk Dědic offered help resolving any issues related to support of old 
as well as new JDKs. I have asked for three quests that would be solved by 
using new JDK APIs to demonstrate how to use http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/
AlternativeImplementation in practice. Result? Silence, ignorance or insults 
(of Sváťa - active developer with more contributions than anyone else!).

Is it because of being focused only on the IDE? Is it because simple solutions 
are more attractive? Vote -1 and let get the project back to solid engineering 
it was know for quarter of the century!

Dne úterý 11. dubna 2023 10:16:31 CEST, Neil C Smith napsal(a):
> # Proposed policy
> 
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
> 
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
> 
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
> 
> ## Background
> 
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
> 
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
> 
> ## Notes
> 
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
> 
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
> 
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
> 
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
> 
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
> 
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
> 
> 
> ## Procedure
> 
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
> 
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
> 
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Neil
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists





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RE: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Eric Barboni <Er...@irit.fr>.
+1 binding

As I want the indexer 7xxx with more speed and beeing stuck in 8 prevent the PR merge

Eric

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Christian Oyarzun <co...@oyarzun.net> 
Envoyé : mardi 11 avril 2023 18:42
À : dev@netbeans.apache.org
Objet : Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

+1

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 11, 2023, at 10:54 AM, Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> +1 (binding)
> 
> -mbien
> 
>> On 11.04.23 10:16, Neil C Smith wrote:
>> # Proposed policy
>> 
>> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the 
>> platform on JDK 8.
>> 
>> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run 
>> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>> 
>> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and 
>> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be 
>> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two 
>> LTS releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will 
>> support JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 
>> 17, 21 and 22.
>> 
>> ## Background
>> 
>> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and 
>> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially 
>> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules 
>> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have 
>> continued on JDK 8.
>> 
>> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for 
>> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other 
>> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene 
>> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in 
>> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10 
>> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing 
>> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of 
>> deprecated (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by 
>> the additional JDK requirements.
>> 
>> ## Notes
>> 
>> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the 
>> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to 
>> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as 
>> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>> 
>> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default 
>> bytecode level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when 
>> required, but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum 
>> JDK as they need to.
>> 
>> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than 
>> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules 
>> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude 
>> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>> 
>> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
>> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for 
>> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container 
>> as a whole - 
>> https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>> 
>> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could 
>> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to 
>> any PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>> 
>> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of 
>> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform 
>> cluster.
>> 
>> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
>> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>> 
>> 
>> ## Procedure
>> 
>> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>> 
>> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans 
>> PMC member to help with voting admin.
>> 
>> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Neil
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>> 
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Christian Oyarzun <co...@oyarzun.net>.
+1

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 11, 2023, at 10:54 AM, Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> +1 (binding)
> 
> -mbien
> 
>> On 11.04.23 10:16, Neil C Smith wrote:
>> # Proposed policy
>> 
>> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
>> platform on JDK 8.
>> 
>> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
>> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>> 
>> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
>> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
>> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
>> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
>> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
>> 22.
>> 
>> ## Background
>> 
>> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
>> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
>> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
>> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
>> continued on JDK 8.
>> 
>> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
>> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
>> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
>> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
>> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
>> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
>> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
>> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
>> additional JDK requirements.
>> 
>> ## Notes
>> 
>> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
>> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
>> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
>> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>> 
>> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
>> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
>> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
>> they need to.
>> 
>> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
>> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
>> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
>> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>> 
>> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
>> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
>> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
>> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>> 
>> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
>> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
>> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>> 
>> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
>> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
>> cluster.
>> 
>> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
>> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>> 
>> 
>> ## Procedure
>> 
>> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>> 
>> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
>> member to help with voting admin.
>> 
>> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Neil
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>> 
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>.
+1 (binding)

-mbien

On 11.04.23 10:16, Neil C Smith wrote:
> # Proposed policy
>
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
>
> ## Background
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
>
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
>
> ## Notes
>
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
>
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>
>
> ## Procedure
>
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
>
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>


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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Karl Tauber <ka...@jformdesigner.com>.
+1


On 11.04.2023 10:16, Neil C Smith wrote:
> # Proposed policy
> 
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
> 
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
> 
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
> 
> ## Background
> 
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
> 
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
> 
> ## Notes
> 
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
> 
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
> 
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
> 
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
> 
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
> 
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
> 
> 
> ## Procedure
> 
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
> 
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
> 
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Neil
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by John Neffenger <jo...@status6.com>.
+1

John Neffenger

On 4/11/23 1:16 AM, Neil C Smith wrote:
> # Proposed policy
> 
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
> 
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
> 
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
> 
> ## Background
> 
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
> 
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
> 
> ## Notes
> 
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
> 
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
> 
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
> 
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
> 
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
> 
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
> 
> 
> ## Procedure
> 
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
> 
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
> 
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Neil


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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Glenn Holmer <ce...@protonmail.com.INVALID>.
On 4/11/23 03:16, Neil C Smith wrote:
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.

+1 (binding)

--
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."



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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Jakub Herkel <jh...@gmail.com>.
+1

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 11:13 AM Alexander Kronenwett
<ak...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> +1
>
> Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> schrieb am Di., 11. Apr. 2023, 10:17:
>
> > # Proposed policy
> >
> > * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> > platform on JDK 8.
> >
> > * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> > the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
> >
> > * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> > running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> > supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> > releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> > JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> > 22.
> >
> > ## Background
> >
> > The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> > run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> > the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> > requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> > continued on JDK 8.
> >
> > This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> > currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> > requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> > [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> > integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> > [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> > workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> > (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> > additional JDK requirements.
> >
> > ## Notes
> >
> > * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> > current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> > support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> > nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
> >
> > * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> > level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> > but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> > they need to.
> >
> > * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> > the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> > might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> > modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
> >
> > * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> > etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> > the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> > a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
> >
> > * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> > be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> > PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
> >
> > * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> > modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> > cluster.
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> > [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
> >
> >
> > ## Procedure
> >
> > This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
> >
> > Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> > member to help with voting admin.
> >
> > Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >

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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Alexander Kronenwett <ak...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
+1

Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> schrieb am Di., 11. Apr. 2023, 10:17:

> # Proposed policy
>
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
>
> ## Background
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
>
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
>
> ## Notes
>
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
>
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>
>
> ## Procedure
>
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
>
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Kai Uwe Pel <ku...@webnetproject.com>.
+1  (non-binding)

Regards
Kai

On 4/11/2023 10:16 AM, Neil C Smith wrote:
> # Proposed policy
>
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
>
> ## Background
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
>
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
>
> ## Notes
>
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
>
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>
>
> ## Procedure
>
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
>
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by László Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>.
+1 (binding)

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 6:08 AM Brad Walker <bw...@musings.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> -brad walker
>
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 2:23 AM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > # Proposed policy
> >
> > * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> > platform on JDK 8.
> >
> > * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> > the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
> >
> > * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> > running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> > supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> > releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> > JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> > 22.
> >
> > ## Background
> >
> > The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> > run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> > the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> > requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> > continued on JDK 8.
> >
> > This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> > currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> > requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> > [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> > integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> > [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> > workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> > (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> > additional JDK requirements.
> >
> > ## Notes
> >
> > * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> > current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> > support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> > nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
> >
> > * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> > level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> > but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> > they need to.
> >
> > * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> > the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> > might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> > modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
> >
> > * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> > etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> > the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> > a whole -
> https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
> >
> > * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> > be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> > PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
> >
> > * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> > modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> > cluster.
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> > [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
> >
> >
> > ## Procedure
> >
> > This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and
> -1.
> >
> > Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> > member to help with voting admin.
> >
> > Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive
> votes.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Brad Walker <bw...@musings.com>.
+1

-brad walker

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 2:23 AM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:

> # Proposed policy
>
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
>
> ## Background
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
>
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
>
> ## Notes
>
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
>
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>
>
> ## Procedure
>
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
>
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by Arnaud bourree <ar...@gmail.com>.
+1

Le mar. 11 avr. 2023, 10:17, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> a écrit :

> # Proposed policy
>
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
>
> ## Background
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
>
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
>
> ## Notes
>
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
>
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>
>
> ## Procedure
>
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
>
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping JDK 8)

Posted by John Mc <mc...@gmail.com>.
+1 (Binding)

On Tue, 11 Apr 2023 at 09:17, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:

> # Proposed policy
>
> * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the
> platform on JDK 8.
>
> * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run
> the IDE or platform will be JDK 11.
>
> * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and
> running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be
> supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS
> releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support
> JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and
> 22.
>
> ## Background
>
> The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and
> run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially
> the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules
> requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have
> continued on JDK 8.
>
> This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for
> currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other
> requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene
> [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in
> integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10
> [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing
> workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated
> (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the
> additional JDK requirements.
>
> ## Notes
>
> * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the
> current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE.  The IDE will continue to
> support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as
> nb-javac and other dependencies allow.
>
> * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode
> level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required,
> but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as
> they need to.
>
> * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than
> the minimum.  Should it become necessary, build time optional modules
> might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude
> modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime.
>
> * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities,
> etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for
> the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as
> a whole - https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html
>
> * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could
> be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any
> PMC members wanting to manage those releases.
>
> * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of
> modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform
> cluster.
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999
> [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692
>
>
> ## Procedure
>
> This vote is going to be open at least 72 hours.  Vote with +1, 0, and -1.
>
> Please mark your vote as binding only if you're an Apache NetBeans PMC
> member to help with voting admin.
>
> Decision will be by majority vote, with at least 3 binding positive votes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>