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Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org> on 2009/03/09 10:47:21 UTC
Interest in 2.2?
Hi Lenya devs,
up to now, there wasn't much feedback on the 2.2 discussions (apart from
Felix' comments). Is anyone else planning to actively participate in the
migration to Cocoon 2.2?
If not, I'd suggest to stop the migration and revert the SVN (use the
2.0.2 branch as trunk again).
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
Hi all,
> >>> The power of cocoon 2.2 lies in the blocks and spring configuration.
In
> >>> your other mail you asked whether it makes sense to drop modules in
> >>> favor of the block concept and IMO it does.
Does this mean that the fallback protokoll has to be dropped if we use
blocks ?
That would be a great pity, because with the fallback protokoll we can
adjust modules and core components in publications without changing
anything in the core.
> >> Do you have some ideas how the issues I mentioned on this list and on
> >> dev@cocoon could be resolved?
> >
> > Need to review the threads again. Which points in concrete?
>
>
> http://www.nabble.com/-2.2--Blocks-vs.-modules-td22123965.html
>
> http://www.nabble.com/-2.2--Servlet-service%3A-polymorphism-and-
> connections-td22123795.html
>
Rudolf
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Re: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler schrieb:
[…]
> I will be away on a consulting gig on lenya and one topic of the
> workshop will be the new version. Yes I will try it within the next 2
> weeks.
Good luck with the workshop!
[…]
>>>>> Alternatively we can develop useful modules and publications to demonstrate
>>>>> the power of lenya to the public.
>>>> That would be very important in any case.
>>> The power of cocoon 2.2 lies in the blocks and spring configuration. In
>>> your other mail you asked whether it makes sense to drop modules in
>>> favor of the block concept and IMO it does.
>> Do you have some ideas how the issues I mentioned on this list and on
>> dev@cocoon could be resolved?
>
> Need to review the threads again. Which points in concrete?
http://www.nabble.com/-2.2--Blocks-vs.-modules-td22123965.html
http://www.nabble.com/-2.2--Servlet-service%3A-polymorphism-and-connections-td22123795.html
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 20:11 +0100, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler schrieb:
> > On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 14:07 +0100, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> >> rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
> >>>> up to now, there wasn't much feedback on the 2.2 discussions (apart from
> >>>> Felix' comments). Is anyone else planning to actively participate in the
> >>>> migration to Cocoon 2.2?
> >>>>
> >>>> If not, I'd suggest to stop the migration and revert the SVN (use the
> >>>> 2.0.2 branch as trunk again).
> >>>> ...
> >
> > Not sure, I had a look at the revisions and it would be a pity to lose
> > this work.
>
> We could move it to the sandbox – I wouldn't like to create the
> impression that the code is (or should be) kept in sync with the 2.0.2
> branch. I don't think we could keep this synchronisation up.
Let us see where this discussion is going and then we can decide.
...
> So will you give Lenya 2.2 a try?
jeje, you know me. I am always keen to give new things a go.
http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/index.html was one of the first bigger
page build with cocoon 2.2 and till now we are very happy how everything
works out. For example all from
http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/28f2009.html is done within a block which
is an awesome separation since this part is completely independent from
the rest of the portal.
I will be away on a consulting gig on lenya and one topic of the
workshop will be the new version. Yes I will try it within the next 2
weeks.
> > IMO Cocoon 3 is far from being stable and recommendable for lenya.
>
> That's good to know, thanks for clarifying!
That is my personal opinion though.
>
> >>> Alternatively we can develop useful modules and publications to demonstrate
> >>> the power of lenya to the public.
> >> That would be very important in any case.
> >
> > The power of cocoon 2.2 lies in the blocks and spring configuration. In
> > your other mail you asked whether it makes sense to drop modules in
> > favor of the block concept and IMO it does.
>
> Do you have some ideas how the issues I mentioned on this list and on
> dev@cocoon could be resolved?
Need to review the threads again. Which points in concrete?
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
Open Source <consulting, training and solutions>
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Re: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler schrieb:
> On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 14:07 +0100, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
>>>> up to now, there wasn't much feedback on the 2.2 discussions (apart from
>>>> Felix' comments). Is anyone else planning to actively participate in the
>>>> migration to Cocoon 2.2?
>>>>
>>>> If not, I'd suggest to stop the migration and revert the SVN (use the
>>>> 2.0.2 branch as trunk again).
>>>> ...
>
> Not sure, I had a look at the revisions and it would be a pity to lose
> this work.
We could move it to the sandbox – I wouldn't like to create the
impression that the code is (or should be) kept in sync with the 2.0.2
branch. I don't think we could keep this synchronisation up.
>>> Would it make sence to skip the migration to 2.2 and wait until Cocoon 3 is
>>> available ?
>> IMO this makes sense. Cocoon 2.2 has some nice concepts, but if feels a
>> bit like a hybrid between Avalon and Spring, and not like the holy grail
>> yet. Maybe C3 will be more streamlined and pruned of legacy stuff.
>
> I share this opinion. I see good concepts but it is not yet the best
> practice approach. Further the development of 2.2 is a wee bit slower
> since Grzegorz (who took the lead in the dev) stop working on 2.2.
>
> Cocoon 3 is MAYBE the best choice, but IMO it makes sense to keep the
> trunk based on 2.2. up for a while. It would be very interesting to see
> how the performance has developed with using cocoon 2.2.
So will you give Lenya 2.2 a try?
> IMO Cocoon 3 is far from being stable and recommendable for lenya.
That's good to know, thanks for clarifying!
>>> Alternatively we can develop useful modules and publications to demonstrate
>>> the power of lenya to the public.
>> That would be very important in any case.
>
> The power of cocoon 2.2 lies in the blocks and spring configuration. In
> your other mail you asked whether it makes sense to drop modules in
> favor of the block concept and IMO it does.
Do you have some ideas how the issues I mentioned on this list and on
dev@cocoon could be resolved?
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 11:05 +0100, Jann Forrer wrote:
> Felix Roethenbacher wrote:
> > Hi Andreas
...
> I see another problem and that is the *compatibility between different
> versions. We are still on lenya 1.2. Let's assume we would like to
> upgrade to lenya 2. That means we have to do a lot of work for
> migration.
I am not sure about the automated update in lenya currently (reading
about the spring cleaning), but I have been on a project with
becompany.ch where we wrote a migration routine that was eliminating
lots of work. Not sure whether becompany.ch can release it here but
there are solutions that can help migrating from 1.2 to 2.0.x.
> Now lenya moves to cocoon 2.2. If we would like to upgrade to
> this version that probably means again a lot of work in order to
> migrate our publications ...
That depends. I used cocoon 2.2 and had to change only minor things in
my cocoon app. I have not tried lenya 2.2 but I think it should be
possible to use your 2.0.x pub nearly as is. The move to spring is not
forced you can still use your old Avalon components.
However Andreas can comment better on this.
> and if we move on to cocoon 3 again
> migration ....
Here we need still some experience to say something of value.
> *
> <http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&p=thMx..&search=compatibility>
>
>
> If we decide to move to cocoon 2.2 we should mention that on the website
> and at least inform current lenya user about the situation and what it
> means to them if they want to upgrade their installation e.g. wait with
> the upgrade until the migration to 2.2. is done ....
ATM 2.2 needs to see some other eyes then the one from Andreas to see
whether we want to go for it or not (as least this is what I understand
from this mail). Before we have not decided to really go for it IMO
there is no immediate need to inform the users.
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
Open Source <consulting, training and solutions>
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Re: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by Jann Forrer <ja...@id.uzh.ch>.
Felix Roethenbacher wrote:
> Hi Andreas
[ ... ]
>>
>> I share this opinion. I see good concepts but it is not yet the best
>> practice approach. Further the development of 2.2 is a wee bit slower
>> since Grzegorz (who took the lead in the dev) stop working on 2.2.
>>
>> Cocoon 3 is MAYBE the best choice, but IMO it makes sense to keep the
>> trunk based on 2.2. up for a while. It would be very interesting to see
>> how the performance has developed with using cocoon 2.2.
>> IMO Cocoon 3 is far from being stable and recommendable for lenya.
>>
>
> Cocoon 2.2 is THE big step for Lenya moving away from
> Avalon to Spring and make use of the Maven build process. I assume
> that the move from Cocoon 2.2 to Cocoon 3.0 won't be that much
> work if our code is based already on the Spring Framework and Maven.
>
I see another problem and that is the *compatibility between different
versions. We are still on lenya 1.2. Let's assume we would like to
upgrade to lenya 2. That means we have to do a lot of work for
migration. Now lenya moves to cocoon 2.2. If we would like to upgrade to
this version that probably means again a lot of work in order to
migrate our publications ... and if we move on to cocoon 3 again
migration ....*
<http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&p=thMx..&search=compatibility>
If we decide to move to cocoon 2.2 we should mention that on the website
and at least inform current lenya user about the situation and what it
means to them if they want to upgrade their installation e.g. wait with
the upgrade until the migration to 2.2. is done ....
>>>> Alternatively we can develop useful modules and publications to
>>>> demonstrate
>>>> the power of lenya to the public.
>>> That would be very important in any case.
>>
+1 :-)
Jann
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Re: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by Felix Roethenbacher <fr...@apache.org>.
Hi Andreas
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 14:07 +0100, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
>>>> up to now, there wasn't much feedback on the 2.2 discussions (apart from
>>>> Felix' comments). Is anyone else planning to actively participate in the
>>>> migration to Cocoon 2.2?
>>>>
>>>> If not, I'd suggest to stop the migration and revert the SVN (use the
>>>> 2.0.2 branch as trunk again).
>>>> ...
>
> Not sure, I had a look at the revisions and it would be a pity to lose
> this work.
>
Can you give us a quick update of the status of the migration, any
problems or blockers and what needs to be done to get Lenya working
again? I didn't want to interfere with you while you were doing the
bulk of migration but if there is a need I can pick up some tasks on
the todo list.
>>> Would it make sence to skip the migration to 2.2 and wait until Cocoon 3 is
>>> available ?
>> IMO this makes sense. Cocoon 2.2 has some nice concepts, but if feels a
>> bit like a hybrid between Avalon and Spring, and not like the holy grail
>> yet. Maybe C3 will be more streamlined and pruned of legacy stuff.
>
> I share this opinion. I see good concepts but it is not yet the best
> practice approach. Further the development of 2.2 is a wee bit slower
> since Grzegorz (who took the lead in the dev) stop working on 2.2.
>
> Cocoon 3 is MAYBE the best choice, but IMO it makes sense to keep the
> trunk based on 2.2. up for a while. It would be very interesting to see
> how the performance has developed with using cocoon 2.2.
>
> IMO Cocoon 3 is far from being stable and recommendable for lenya.
>
Cocoon 2.2 is THE big step for Lenya moving away from
Avalon to Spring and make use of the Maven build process. I assume
that the move from Cocoon 2.2 to Cocoon 3.0 won't be that much
work if our code is based already on the Spring Framework and Maven.
>>> Alternatively we can develop useful modules and publications to demonstrate
>>> the power of lenya to the public.
>> That would be very important in any case.
>
> The power of cocoon 2.2 lies in the blocks and spring configuration. In
> your other mail you asked whether it makes sense to drop modules in
> favor of the block concept and IMO it does.
+1
>
> salu2
- Felix
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Re: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 14:07 +0100, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
> >> up to now, there wasn't much feedback on the 2.2 discussions (apart from
> >> Felix' comments). Is anyone else planning to actively participate in the
> >> migration to Cocoon 2.2?
> >>
> >> If not, I'd suggest to stop the migration and revert the SVN (use the
> >> 2.0.2 branch as trunk again).
> >>...
Not sure, I had a look at the revisions and it would be a pity to lose
this work.
> > Would it make sence to skip the migration to 2.2 and wait until Cocoon 3 is
> > available ?
>
> IMO this makes sense. Cocoon 2.2 has some nice concepts, but if feels a
> bit like a hybrid between Avalon and Spring, and not like the holy grail
> yet. Maybe C3 will be more streamlined and pruned of legacy stuff.
I share this opinion. I see good concepts but it is not yet the best
practice approach. Further the development of 2.2 is a wee bit slower
since Grzegorz (who took the lead in the dev) stop working on 2.2.
Cocoon 3 is MAYBE the best choice, but IMO it makes sense to keep the
trunk based on 2.2. up for a while. It would be very interesting to see
how the performance has developed with using cocoon 2.2.
IMO Cocoon 3 is far from being stable and recommendable for lenya.
>
> > Alternatively we can develop useful modules and publications to demonstrate
> > the power of lenya to the public.
>
> That would be very important in any case.
The power of cocoon 2.2 lies in the blocks and spring configuration. In
your other mail you asked whether it makes sense to drop modules in
favor of the block concept and IMO it does.
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
Open Source Java <consulting, training and solutions>
Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad
de la Información, S.A.U. (SADESI)
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Re: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by Vik Tara <vi...@propco.co.uk>.
> Alternatively we can develop useful modules and publications to demonstrate
> the power of lenya to the public.
That would be of greater interest to me than moving to 2.2
Regards
Vik
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
>>> up to now, there wasn't much feedback on the 2.2 discussions (apart from
>>> Felix' comments). Is anyone else planning to actively participate in the
>>> migration to Cocoon 2.2?
>>>
>>> If not, I'd suggest to stop the migration and revert the SVN (use the
>>> 2.0.2 branch as trunk again).
>>>
>>> -- Andreas
>>>
>>
>> We are working on the migration from 1.2.4 to 2.0.x this year, so
>> there is
>> no
>> time left for us to participate on the migration to Cocoon 2.2.
>> If we are on Lenya 2.0.x we'll wait a few years before we do the next
>> migration,
>> maybe when the migration to Cocoon 3 is in process.
>>
>> Would it make sence to skip the migration to 2.2 and wait until Cocoon
>> 3 is
>> available ?
>
> IMO this makes sense. Cocoon 2.2 has some nice concepts, but if feels a
> bit like a hybrid between Avalon and Spring, and not like the holy grail
> yet. Maybe C3 will be more streamlined and pruned of legacy stuff.
>
>> Alternatively we can develop useful modules and publications to
>> demonstrate
>> the power of lenya to the public.
>
> That would be very important in any case.
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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Re: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
>> up to now, there wasn't much feedback on the 2.2 discussions (apart from
>> Felix' comments). Is anyone else planning to actively participate in the
>> migration to Cocoon 2.2?
>>
>> If not, I'd suggest to stop the migration and revert the SVN (use the
>> 2.0.2 branch as trunk again).
>>
>> -- Andreas
>>
>
> We are working on the migration from 1.2.4 to 2.0.x this year, so there is
> no
> time left for us to participate on the migration to Cocoon 2.2.
> If we are on Lenya 2.0.x we'll wait a few years before we do the next
> migration,
> maybe when the migration to Cocoon 3 is in process.
>
> Would it make sence to skip the migration to 2.2 and wait until Cocoon 3 is
> available ?
IMO this makes sense. Cocoon 2.2 has some nice concepts, but if feels a
bit like a hybrid between Avalon and Spring, and not like the holy grail
yet. Maybe C3 will be more streamlined and pruned of legacy stuff.
> Alternatively we can develop useful modules and publications to demonstrate
> the power of lenya to the public.
That would be very important in any case.
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Antwort: Interest in 2.2?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
> up to now, there wasn't much feedback on the 2.2 discussions (apart from
> Felix' comments). Is anyone else planning to actively participate in the
> migration to Cocoon 2.2?
>
> If not, I'd suggest to stop the migration and revert the SVN (use the
> 2.0.2 branch as trunk again).
>
> -- Andreas
>
We are working on the migration from 1.2.4 to 2.0.x this year, so there is
no
time left for us to participate on the migration to Cocoon 2.2.
If we are on Lenya 2.0.x we'll wait a few years before we do the next
migration,
maybe when the migration to Cocoon 3 is in process.
Would it make sence to skip the migration to 2.2 and wait until Cocoon 3 is
available ?
Alternatively we can develop useful modules and publications to demonstrate
the power of lenya to the public.
Rudolf
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