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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Inge Solvoll <ta...@ingenett.com> on 2005/11/09 10:48:40 UTC
Re: Delibrately Provacative Question: Why Upgrade to 4.0?
My biggest reason for not upgrading so far, is that the things I depend
upon, like Spindle and third party components like tacos, t-deli and
others, are not yet stable on T4. I want to make absolutely sure they
are fully reliable before I upgrade.
I expect the upgrade to be moderately expensive, both in upgrading code
and in learning about hivemind and the new practices in Tapestry. I
expect the biggest concern of these two to be the learning curve.
Inge
Geoff Longman wrote:
> I'm interested too to hear more stories from those who have ported
> significantly sized T3 applications to T4.
>
> Geoff
>
> On 10/19/05, Eric Schneider <er...@centralparksoftware.com> wrote:
>
>>Pat,
>>
>>I think your concern is valid. I started looking at 4.0 a couple of
>>months back (around beta 4) to see what it would take to upgrade our
>>3.0.3 and 2.3 apps (all of which are large).
>>
>>I wouldn't say upgrading is a re-implementation. But, if you're
>>dealing with a large application, I'd give yourself a couple of weeks
>>(minimum) for the upgrade.
>>
>>This was the approach I took:
>>
>>1) Read the Quick Start guide
>>2) Downloaded the new jars and watched the pretty red squiggles light
>>up everywhere in eclipse.
>>3) Ported my custom services (this was one of the difficult steps,
>>felt like a re-implementation).
>>4) Ported my shared library components (this could have been easier,
>>especially for components that extended core components in Tapestry).
>>5) Hunt down all of the 3.0 API that is either gone or been
>>deprecated (Most of the stuff that is gone can now be injected, which
>>is good!).
>>6) Take a step back, and actually learn some Hivemind basics (mostly,
>>cuz I had no clue how to inject the stuff that went away).
>>7) After learning Hivemind basics, I ported most of my singleton
>>application scope objects into hivemind services (this was way easy).
>>8) Go through every file in the application and swap out all of the
>>xml changes (this becomes routine and goes quickly).
>>
>>I think in the long run, the upgrade is worth it. The hivemind stuff
>>seems great so far (and I'm still just a novice). Plus, there are
>>major improvements with form validation and component parameter
>>handling.
>>
>>We deployed our first 4.0 app two weeks ago and it's been going
>>strong (85K+ registered users so far).
>>
>>I hope this helps.
>>Cheers,
>>Eric
>>
>>
>>On Oct 19, 2005, at 2:32 PM, Patrick Casey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I've been reading these lists (and looking through the
>>>doc and
>>>change notes) for 4.0 for long enough to see that Tapestry 4.0 is a
>>>*big*
>>>change in the way a lot of things work. Lots of stuff is getting
>>>deprecated,
>>>some things are apparently just going away and, equally
>>>importantly, the
>>>preferred way to do a lot of things is being changed pretty
>>>dramatically.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With that being said, is there a compelling case to
>>>upgrade an
>>>existing Tapestry 3.0.3 project to Tapestry 4.0? I'm not talking
>>>about a
>>>fresh project starting form line one, but rather an extensive,
>>>large and
>>>complex 3.0.3 application. My gut feel is that any upgrade is going
>>>to end
>>>up being close to a reimplementation; is that true? Has anyone
>>>tried porting
>>>a non-trivial 3.0.3 app to 4.0?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm worried that I won't be able to port to 4.0 and, in
>>>doing
>>>so, I'll be stuck on an orphan branch of the source tree :-(.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Pat
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Get help with Spindle:
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
> Announcement Feed:
> http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
> Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: Delibrately Provacative Question: Why Upgrade to 4.0?
Posted by Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>.
Yes maybe. I'm not sure if there are enough bugs being posted to
warrent a jira database yet...Please do post them in the wiki bug area
if you can. It's not very nice to talk about bugs without sharing ;)
I have no idea. I'm pretty sure ajax stuff is going to get worked on
in 4.1 of tapestry. Whether that includes anything from tacos or not
remains to be seen. As for the components, it's all part of the big
vision right? Everyone creating them that is :) Duplication ~is~ bad,
but in this case I think it's almost good that tacos wallows in misery
alone for a while so that when tap is ready for it most of the hard
work has been figured out already.
j
On 11/9/05, Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi <le...@dtqsoftware.com> wrote:
> Now, Jesse, I do think Tacos could use a good issue database (like
> JIRA). I was trying yesterday to find somewhere to put my reports, but
> only found a wiki with 1 bug and the sourceforge's bug tracker with 2
> bugs...
>
> By the way, are there plans to bring Tacos closer to Tapestry
> infrastructure? As a sub-project or something like that? I'm starting to
> note that there are some Tacos components that would overlap Tapestry's
> one. Duplication of code is a very bad thing ;).
>
> --
> Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi
> Director Técnico
> DTQ Software
>
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Re: Delibrately Provacative Question: Why Upgrade to 4.0?
Posted by Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi <le...@dtqsoftware.com>.
Now, Jesse, I do think Tacos could use a good issue database (like
JIRA). I was trying yesterday to find somewhere to put my reports, but
only found a wiki with 1 bug and the sourceforge's bug tracker with 2
bugs...
By the way, are there plans to bring Tacos closer to Tapestry
infrastructure? As a sub-project or something like that? I'm starting to
note that there are some Tacos components that would overlap Tapestry's
one. Duplication of code is a very bad thing ;).
--
Ing. Leonardo Quijano Vincenzi
Director Técnico
DTQ Software
Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> While tacos4 may still be undergoing lots of heavy development, it has
> enough debugging features and exception cases being handled that I'd
> be very hard pressed to want to use anything else...It's incredibly
> easy and intuitive to debug the library now...Even without any firefox
> plugins...
>
> my 2 cents
>
>
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Re: Delibrately Provacative Question: Why Upgrade to 4.0?
Posted by Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>.
While tacos4 may still be undergoing lots of heavy development, it has
enough debugging features and exception cases being handled that I'd
be very hard pressed to want to use anything else...It's incredibly
easy and intuitive to debug the library now...Even without any firefox
plugins...
my 2 cents
jesse
On 11/9/05, Inge Solvoll <ta...@ingenett.com> wrote:
> My biggest reason for not upgrading so far, is that the things I depend
> upon, like Spindle and third party components like tacos, t-deli and
> others, are not yet stable on T4. I want to make absolutely sure they
> are fully reliable before I upgrade.
>
> I expect the upgrade to be moderately expensive, both in upgrading code
> and in learning about hivemind and the new practices in Tapestry. I
> expect the biggest concern of these two to be the learning curve.
>
> Inge
>
> Geoff Longman wrote:
> > I'm interested too to hear more stories from those who have ported
> > significantly sized T3 applications to T4.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 10/19/05, Eric Schneider <er...@centralparksoftware.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Pat,
> >>
> >>I think your concern is valid. I started looking at 4.0 a couple of
> >>months back (around beta 4) to see what it would take to upgrade our
> >>3.0.3 and 2.3 apps (all of which are large).
> >>
> >>I wouldn't say upgrading is a re-implementation. But, if you're
> >>dealing with a large application, I'd give yourself a couple of weeks
> >>(minimum) for the upgrade.
> >>
> >>This was the approach I took:
> >>
> >>1) Read the Quick Start guide
> >>2) Downloaded the new jars and watched the pretty red squiggles light
> >>up everywhere in eclipse.
> >>3) Ported my custom services (this was one of the difficult steps,
> >>felt like a re-implementation).
> >>4) Ported my shared library components (this could have been easier,
> >>especially for components that extended core components in Tapestry).
> >>5) Hunt down all of the 3.0 API that is either gone or been
> >>deprecated (Most of the stuff that is gone can now be injected, which
> >>is good!).
> >>6) Take a step back, and actually learn some Hivemind basics (mostly,
> >>cuz I had no clue how to inject the stuff that went away).
> >>7) After learning Hivemind basics, I ported most of my singleton
> >>application scope objects into hivemind services (this was way easy).
> >>8) Go through every file in the application and swap out all of the
> >>xml changes (this becomes routine and goes quickly).
> >>
> >>I think in the long run, the upgrade is worth it. The hivemind stuff
> >>seems great so far (and I'm still just a novice). Plus, there are
> >>major improvements with form validation and component parameter
> >>handling.
> >>
> >>We deployed our first 4.0 app two weeks ago and it's been going
> >>strong (85K+ registered users so far).
> >>
> >>I hope this helps.
> >>Cheers,
> >>Eric
> >>
> >>
> >>On Oct 19, 2005, at 2:32 PM, Patrick Casey wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I've been reading these lists (and looking through the
> >>>doc and
> >>>change notes) for 4.0 for long enough to see that Tapestry 4.0 is a
> >>>*big*
> >>>change in the way a lot of things work. Lots of stuff is getting
> >>>deprecated,
> >>>some things are apparently just going away and, equally
> >>>importantly, the
> >>>preferred way to do a lot of things is being changed pretty
> >>>dramatically.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> With that being said, is there a compelling case to
> >>>upgrade an
> >>>existing Tapestry 3.0.3 project to Tapestry 4.0? I'm not talking
> >>>about a
> >>>fresh project starting form line one, but rather an extensive,
> >>>large and
> >>>complex 3.0.3 application. My gut feel is that any upgrade is going
> >>>to end
> >>>up being close to a reimplementation; is that true? Has anyone
> >>>tried porting
> >>>a non-trivial 3.0.3 app to 4.0?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'm worried that I won't be able to port to 4.0 and, in
> >>>doing
> >>>so, I'll be stuck on an orphan branch of the source tree :-(.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- Pat
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> > Get help with Spindle:
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
> > Announcement Feed:
> > http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
> > Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>
>
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