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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by David Aldrich <Da...@EU.NEC.COM> on 2010/05/18 13:55:01 UTC
Is svn branching too difficult?
Hi
I have just finished working on a branch and have performed a reintegrate merge back into the trunk. I only worked on 4 files in the branch and I carefully merged from trunk to branch several times (including immediately prior to the reintegration).
The reintegration correctly identified the four files that I had worked on and that had changed, but also showed 101 files as 'Modified (properties only)'. I know that there are good documents that describe merging and explain what this sort of state means, but I struggle to understand what is going on during merging sometimes.
I feel unable to recommend branching to my colleagues, it just seems too complicated. I don't think they would have the time or patience to understand the nuances of merging.
Do other people feel the same way? Is svn branching too difficult?
(I am using svn server 1.5.5 and the 1.6.11 client. I wonder if things will be better when we upgrade the server?)
This is not meant as a complaint, I am simply trying to judge whether svn branching is workable.
With best regards
David
RE: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by "Cufi, Carles" <ca...@nordicsemi.no>.
Sorry to intrude in the conversation, but I am currently experiencing exactly the same issues.
> Branching and merging is not the simplest operation in the world. Svn is
> one of the easier environments for doing merging.
Agreed.
> If you had not gotten the 101 property changes, what would your opinion
> be? Do you have any idea where these property changes came from?
If I didn't have my 60-odd files being cluttered with svn:mergeinfo properties branching and merging would be bliss with svn. The problem is that this is not the first time I get this kind of behaviour with svn, and it is quite hard to correct. I will keep trying!
Thanks!
Carles
RE: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by Jeremy Mordkoff <jl...@ZeeVee.Com>.
Branching and merging is not the simplest operation in the world. Svn is
one of the easier environments for doing merging.
(a) doing test merges is easy
(b) creating branches is easy and quick
(c) it does have merge tracking
If you had not gotten the 101 property changes, what would your opinion
be? Do you have any idea where these property changes came from?
JLM
Jeremy Mordkoff
Director, QA, IT & Release
ZeeVee, Inc.
One Monarch Drive | Littleton, MA 01460
Office: 978.467.1395 x233 | Fax: 978.467.1404
Mobile: 978-257-2183
jlm@zeevee.com
www.zeevee.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Aldrich [mailto:David.Aldrich@EU.NEC.COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:55 AM
> To: users@subversion.apache.org
> Subject: Is svn branching too difficult?
>
> Hi
>
> I have just finished working on a branch and have performed a
reintegrate merge back into the
> trunk. I only worked on 4 files in the branch and I carefully merged
from trunk to branch
> several times (including immediately prior to the reintegration).
>
> The reintegration correctly identified the four files that I had
worked on and that had
> changed, but also showed 101 files as 'Modified (properties only)'. I
know that there are
> good documents that describe merging and explain what this sort of
state means, but I
> struggle to understand what is going on during merging sometimes.
>
> I feel unable to recommend branching to my colleagues, it just seems
too complicated. I don't
> think they would have the time or patience to understand the nuances
of merging.
>
> Do other people feel the same way? Is svn branching too difficult?
>
> (I am using svn server 1.5.5 and the 1.6.11 client. I wonder if things
will be better when we
> upgrade the server?)
>
> This is not meant as a complaint, I am simply trying to judge whether
svn branching is
> workable.
>
> With best regards
>
> David
RE: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by "Cufi, Carles" <ca...@nordicsemi.no>.
> The reintegration correctly identified the four files that I had worked on
> and that had changed, but also showed 101 files as 'Modified (properties
> only)'. I know that there are good documents that describe merging and
> explain what this sort of state means, but I struggle to understand what
> is going on during merging sometimes.
>
Please refer to my earlier post today, I have similar issues which really shouldn't be part of subversion's user experience. For some reasons, some properties get added when they should not be. What property is being added in your case? In mine is svn:mergeinfo.
Carles
RE: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by Jeremy Mordkoff <jl...@ZeeVee.Com>.
My rules of thumb for merging
(a) always use a fully populated workspace
(b) always merge from the top
By following these rules, I only get mergeinfo properties in the tops of
my workspaces.
JLM
Jeremy Mordkoff
Director, QA, IT & Release
ZeeVee, Inc.
One Monarch Drive | Littleton, MA 01460
Office: 978.467.1395 x233 | Fax: 978.467.1404
Mobile: 978-257-2183
jlm@zeevee.com
www.zeevee.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cufi, Carles [mailto:carles.cufi@nordicsemi.no]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:16 AM
> To: Mark Phippard; David Aldrich
> Cc: users@subversion.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Is svn branching too difficult?
>
> Hi there,
>
> > Subversion is likely working properly, but yes it is confusing.
When
> > you do a merge into a branch, Subversion updates its mergeinfo
> > tracking on all of the locations that have the property set. There
> > have been numerous posts that describe how and why it gets set in
the
> > first place.
>
> Thanks for the info. As I described in an earlier post, I have a trunk
and a branch
> completely clean of svn:mergeinfo properties and then when I update my
branch with the latest
> trunk a bunch of svn:mergeinfo properties get added to a sparse set of
files. All the posts I
> have read ask people to cleanup all svn:mergeinfo in the trunk and
then start branching from
> it. I have done so but the properties keep reappearing, and this is
really confusing for me.
>
> > Because it is confusing, we have changed how Subversion works in the
> > next release. It will not update paths that were not modified by
the
> > merge, and then Subversion was modified to handle the fact that
these
> > paths do not get their merge tracking information updated.
>
> Excellent! Looking forward to that!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carles
Re: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Cufi, Carles
<ca...@nordicsemi.no> wrote:
>> Subversion is likely working properly, but yes it is confusing. When
>> you do a merge into a branch, Subversion updates its mergeinfo
>> tracking on all of the locations that have the property set. There
>> have been numerous posts that describe how and why it gets set in the
>> first place.
>
> Thanks for the info. As I described in an earlier post, I have a trunk and a branch completely clean of svn:mergeinfo properties and then when I update my branch with the latest trunk a bunch of svn:mergeinfo properties get added to a sparse set of files. All the posts I have read ask people to cleanup all svn:mergeinfo in the trunk and then start branching from it. I have done so but the properties keep reappearing, and this is really confusing for me.
You have likely been sent this link already, but it explains the
scenarios where mergeinfo is created:
http://blogs.open.collab.net/svn/2009/11/where-did-that-mergeinfo-come-from.html
--
Thanks
Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/
RE: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by "Cufi, Carles" <ca...@nordicsemi.no>.
Hi there,
> Subversion is likely working properly, but yes it is confusing. When
> you do a merge into a branch, Subversion updates its mergeinfo
> tracking on all of the locations that have the property set. There
> have been numerous posts that describe how and why it gets set in the
> first place.
Thanks for the info. As I described in an earlier post, I have a trunk and a branch completely clean of svn:mergeinfo properties and then when I update my branch with the latest trunk a bunch of svn:mergeinfo properties get added to a sparse set of files. All the posts I have read ask people to cleanup all svn:mergeinfo in the trunk and then start branching from it. I have done so but the properties keep reappearing, and this is really confusing for me.
> Because it is confusing, we have changed how Subversion works in the
> next release. It will not update paths that were not modified by the
> merge, and then Subversion was modified to handle the fact that these
> paths do not get their merge tracking information updated.
Excellent! Looking forward to that!
Thanks!
Carles
Re: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by Erik Andersson <ki...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:55 AM, David Aldrich <Da...@eu.nec.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I have just finished working on a branch and have performed a reintegrate
> merge back into the trunk. I only worked on 4 files in the branch and I
> carefully merged from trunk to branch several times (including immediately
> prior to the reintegration).
> >
> > The reintegration correctly identified the four files that I had worked
> on and that had changed, but also showed 101 files as
> > 'Modified (properties only)'. I know that there are good documents that
> describe merging and explain what this sort of state
> > means, but I struggle to understand what is going on during merging
> sometimes.
>
> Subversion is likely working properly, but yes it is confusing. When
> you do a merge into a branch, Subversion updates its mergeinfo
> tracking on all of the locations that have the property set. There
> have been numerous posts that describe how and why it gets set in the
> first place.
>
> Because it is confusing, we have changed how Subversion works in the
> next release. It will not update paths that were not modified by the
> merge, and then Subversion was modified to handle the fact that these
> paths do not get their merge tracking information updated.
>
> Note that if you ran SVN diff and looked at the output you would see
> that Subversion updated its merge tracking on these paths. Overall,
> it is still likely confusing as to why, but I think it would be
> relatively clear what it did.
>
> svn pre-1.5 together with svnmerge.py felt easier to understand, at least
for me.. ;-)
> --
> Thanks
>
> Mark Phippard
> http://markphip.blogspot.com/
>
RE: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by David Aldrich <Da...@EU.NEC.COM>.
Hi Erik
> Merging was much cleaner when we were
> disciplined about always committing and merging from the top of a branch.
Yes, I am aware of that good practice and followed it but I still got the files with modified properties. I have reverted them now but I guess the changed property was mergeinfo.
David
RE: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by Erik Hemdal <er...@comprehensivepower.com>.
> Perhaps I should have been more careful in what I wrote. Svn branching
> is easy. It is the results of merge tracking that can be confusing.
> It's good to hear from Mark that this problem is being addressed. I
> think I shall wait until the next release before recommending it to
> colleagues. Otherwise I may get a lot of support calls!
>
> With best regards
>
> David
When we have had difficulties with merge tracking it was nearly always in the case where someone performed a merge on a subtree and then later wanted to merge the entire tree; or did a commit of only part of a branch and later wanted to merge the entire branch. SVN would then complain bitterly about mergeinfo. Merging was much cleaner when we were disciplined about always committing and merging from the top of a branch.
With that proviso, merging is straightforward, but it still can be delicate work.
Erik
RE: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by David Aldrich <Da...@EU.NEC.COM>.
Hi
Thanks for your replies.
Perhaps I should have been more careful in what I wrote. Svn branching is easy. It is the results of merge tracking that can be confusing. It's good to hear from Mark that this problem is being addressed. I think I shall wait until the next release before recommending it to colleagues. Otherwise I may get a lot of support calls!
With best regards
David
Re: Is svn branching too difficult?
Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:55 AM, David Aldrich <Da...@eu.nec.com> wrote:
> I have just finished working on a branch and have performed a reintegrate merge back into the trunk. I only worked on 4 files in the branch and I carefully merged from trunk to branch several times (including immediately prior to the reintegration).
>
> The reintegration correctly identified the four files that I had worked on and that had changed, but also showed 101 files as
> 'Modified (properties only)'. I know that there are good documents that describe merging and explain what this sort of state
> means, but I struggle to understand what is going on during merging sometimes.
Subversion is likely working properly, but yes it is confusing. When
you do a merge into a branch, Subversion updates its mergeinfo
tracking on all of the locations that have the property set. There
have been numerous posts that describe how and why it gets set in the
first place.
Because it is confusing, we have changed how Subversion works in the
next release. It will not update paths that were not modified by the
merge, and then Subversion was modified to handle the fact that these
paths do not get their merge tracking information updated.
Note that if you ran SVN diff and looked at the output you would see
that Subversion updated its merge tracking on these paths. Overall,
it is still likely confusing as to why, but I think it would be
relatively clear what it did.
--
Thanks
Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/