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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Jaroslav Tulach <ja...@gmail.com> on 2020/11/19 04:08:04 UTC
BigSur fix for LTS and 12.2.1 was: Release Apache NetBeans 12.2 (vote candidate 1)
> 0 (binding)
I have seen few "zero" votes and I appreciate your nice attitude of not
blocking the 12.2! Thank you, I am eagerly waiting for the vote to finish, so
we can proceed with other votes on derived complementary binaries.
> Having submitted the pull request, I think it would be better to get it in
> the 12.2. As John said, this will avoid alienating users with posts like
> this:
>
> "To this day (11/17/2020), we still have no solution for NetBeans. I have
> finally tried IntelliJ and it works perfectly with Big Sur. I don't know
> whose actual responsibility is, but I think Apache is in the mood to lose
> users."
> ref:
> https://dev.to/pablohs1986/macos-users-java-problems-in-big-sur-help-7pa
Sad.
> But if we choose to wait, we should at least provide a workaround (manually
> setting netbeans_jdkhome in netbeans.conf) on the Download page.
> Some thing along the lines of
> https://github.com/apache/netbeans-website/pull/497
Definitely. Huge warning for BigSur users on the download page to provide JDK
manually. Btw. does `netbeans --jdkhome /..../` also work?
> FYI, The /usr/libexec/java_home changes in Big Sur also breaks the 12.0 LTS
> macOS installer from finding a JDK.
12.0 LTS, that should be our focus. At the end 12.2 is just "dev version", but
we should fix 12.0 LTS in my opinion.
-jt
PS: Too bad the fix cannot be done via AutoUpdate - if I understand correctly,
the IDE doesn't even launch to run AutoUpdate, right?
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 6:31 AM Geertjan Wielenga
>
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > 0 (binding)
> >
> > Agree with John McDonnell. Since we have a pull request ready for the Big
> > Sur issues, I think we should include it in 12.2, since otherwise we'll be
> > spending a lot of time advising people how to use NetBeans on Big Sur. And
> > on Twitter etc.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:04 AM Martin Balin <ma...@oracle.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Voting +1 (binding)
> > > Downloaded and tested briefly binaries on Ubuntu 20.04 with JDK11
> > > Signatures OK.
> > > Laszlo and others, thanks for release.
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > On 16. 11. 20 8:57, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
> > > > Dear community,
> > > >
> > > > This is our first voting candidate for the 12.2 release of Apache
> > > > NetBeans. It is built off the same commit as 12.2-rc2. Please note
> > > > all requirements below for validating sources and convenience binaries
> > > > before voting.
> > > >
> > > > Apache NetBeans 12.2 constitutes all clusters in the Apache NetBeans
> > > > Git repository, which together provide the NetBeans Platform (i.e.,
> > > > the
> > > > underlying application framework), as well as all the modules that
> > > > provide the Java SE, Java EE, PHP, JavaScript and Groovy features of
> > > > Apache NetBeans.
> >
> > > > Build artifacts are available here :
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/netbean
> > s/netbeans/12.2/vc1__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!KkB0T1N19R0KD172C83DVfonL8SDovJ_RFBI4
> > fw9k5kFiLrOd7DBY7pg5SIDZpbB5Q$
> >
> >
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/netbean
> > s/netbeans-platform/12.2/vc1__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!KkB0T1N19R0KD172C83DVfonL8SD
> > ovJ_RFBI4fw9k5kFiLrOd7DBY7pg5SK241x3ug$>
> > > > They were built by the Jenkins pipeline and moved to their place :
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ci-builds.apache.org/job/Netbeans/job/
> > netbeans-TLP/job/netbeans/job/release122/18/__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!KkB0T1N19R0K
> > D172C83DVfonL8SDovJ_RFBI4fw9k5kFiLrOd7DBY7pg5SKUJS8Qwg$>
> > > > We are primarily voting on :
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/netbean
> > s/netbeans/12.2/vc1/netbeans-12.2-source.zip__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!KkB0T1N19R0K
> > D172C83DVfonL8SDovJ_RFBI4fw9k5kFiLrOd7DBY7pg5SITNrf2WQ$>
> > > > SHA512 :
> > d1118d5db505ec9f162229ee6c081f3afef18f6f98827938287e8ae617ee9c729b66ab73a7
> > b3bfd0fe2c7b37d0b1624ed309c8258d5b86fe73d588e55bc88213>
> > > > KEYS file :
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://downloads.apache.org/netbeans/KEYS__;!
> > !GqivPVa7Brio!KkB0T1N19R0KD172C83DVfonL8SDovJ_RFBI4fw9k5kFiLrOd7DBY7pg5SLW
> > EozlKg$>
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Associated to the primary source item you will have (generated with
> > > > pipeline mentioned above)
> > > > * under
> >
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/netbean
> > s/netbeans/12.2/vc1__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!KkB0T1N19R0KD172C83DVfonL8SDovJ_RFBI4
> > fw9k5kFiLrOd7DBY7pg5SIDZpbB5Q$>
> > > > binaries associated to the source
> > > > netbeans-12.2-bin.zip
> > > > as well as update content under nbms folder
> > > >
> > > > * under
> >
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/netbean
> > s/netbeans-platform/12.2/vc1__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!KkB0T1N19R0KD172C83DVfonL8SD
> > ovJ_RFBI4fw9k5kFiLrOd7DBY7pg5SK241x3ug$>
> > > > you will find platform cluster build
> > > > netbeans-platform-12.2-bin.zip
> > > > netbeans-platform-12.2-source.zip
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
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Re: BigSur fix for LTS and 12.2.1 was: Release Apache NetBeans 12.2
(vote candidate 1)
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
Just a note about not filing a bug report. The bug is with Apple, I filed
a bug with them while Big Sur was still in beta - hoping that it would be
addressed before the release. While testing NB 12.2, there were no
installers and I always copy the binaries over my existing install and then
patched up the netbeans.conf file because I always have the JDK path set in
it. So NetBeans was "working" and I had nothing to report against it.
Yes, I could have made more noise on this list about it - however, until
Big Sur was released, that would mean violating the terms of the Apple
beta. It was just bad timing, not much more could be done.
Scott
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 8:54 AM Christian Oyarzun <co...@oyarzun.net> wrote:
> >Btw. does `netbeans --jdkhome /..../` also work?
>
> Yes it does. It never hits the /usr/libexec/java_home logic if that
> variable is set.
>
> >Mind you, part of me thinks that anyone who upgrades to a new macOS
> >within a year of release is just asking for trouble anyway ...
>
> Agreed, which is why I have not upgraded my personal or work Macs. It is
> especially true with this release since they are introducing a new
> architecture with the M1 chips.
> But many people do blindly upgrade, and some are NetBeans users.
>
> > 12.0 LTS, that should be our focus. At the end 12.2 is just "dev
> version",
> > but
> > we should fix 12.0 LTS in my opinion.
> >
>
> Agreed, otherwise the LTS is meaningless.
>
> From Laszlo's other email
>
> >Nevertheless, I'd express my disappointment in the communication and the
> >timing of this issue. Till this date there is no blocker or even
> >critical issue reported.
>
> Laszlo, I understand your frustration and disappointment.
>
>
> I suppose the other alternative could be to modify the macOS installer to
> insert the jdkhome in the netbeans.conf. I believe that is what is done by
> the Windows installer.
> Would that be possible and still pass the current vote?
>
> --Christian
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 7:40 AM John Mc <mc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Totally agree, although also agree with Laszlo's annoyance about lack
> > > of critical / blocking issue, and I think also the 0 votes. Be active
> > > not passive - call it! :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh I totally understand, and I've not been active recently (Find myself
> > doing more and more C# at work) around the mailing lists/JIRA, but this
> > popped up on my radar only last week - which is perfectly understandable
> > from Lazlo's position as RM. I definitely didn't want to -1 the release
> > but wanted to call it out in case it was missed by others. Hell if there
> > was no PR ready I would have +1 without thinking as I don't plan to
> upgrade
> > to BigSur until I absolutely need too :)
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > John
> >
>
Re: BigSur fix for LTS and 12.2.1 was: Release Apache NetBeans 12.2
(vote candidate 1)
Posted by Christian Oyarzun <co...@oyarzun.net>.
>Btw. does `netbeans --jdkhome /..../` also work?
Yes it does. It never hits the /usr/libexec/java_home logic if that
variable is set.
>Mind you, part of me thinks that anyone who upgrades to a new macOS
>within a year of release is just asking for trouble anyway ...
Agreed, which is why I have not upgraded my personal or work Macs. It is
especially true with this release since they are introducing a new
architecture with the M1 chips.
But many people do blindly upgrade, and some are NetBeans users.
> 12.0 LTS, that should be our focus. At the end 12.2 is just "dev version",
> but
> we should fix 12.0 LTS in my opinion.
>
Agreed, otherwise the LTS is meaningless.
From Laszlo's other email
>Nevertheless, I'd express my disappointment in the communication and the
>timing of this issue. Till this date there is no blocker or even
>critical issue reported.
Laszlo, I understand your frustration and disappointment.
I suppose the other alternative could be to modify the macOS installer to
insert the jdkhome in the netbeans.conf. I believe that is what is done by
the Windows installer.
Would that be possible and still pass the current vote?
--Christian
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 7:40 AM John Mc <mc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Totally agree, although also agree with Laszlo's annoyance about lack
> > of critical / blocking issue, and I think also the 0 votes. Be active
> > not passive - call it! :-)
> >
> >
> > Oh I totally understand, and I've not been active recently (Find myself
> doing more and more C# at work) around the mailing lists/JIRA, but this
> popped up on my radar only last week - which is perfectly understandable
> from Lazlo's position as RM. I definitely didn't want to -1 the release
> but wanted to call it out in case it was missed by others. Hell if there
> was no PR ready I would have +1 without thinking as I don't plan to upgrade
> to BigSur until I absolutely need too :)
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
Re: BigSur fix for LTS and 12.2.1 was: Release Apache NetBeans 12.2
(vote candidate 1)
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 at 12:40, John Mc <mc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh I totally understand, and I've not been active recently
Yes, me neither much with this release cycle unfortunately ... :-\
> I definitely didn't want to -1 the release
> but wanted to call it out in case it was missed by others.
JFTR, my comment wasn't meant personally. In fact, forgotten you were
the first 0! :-)
I do think we need a better, and clearer, way of handling such
situations, particularly given recent thread with rough consensus to
go ahead on this. Some things will always come down to the release
manager making a judgement call, but I also think we could improve
collective responsibility, including with reporting/triaging JIRA
tickets, criteria for vote withdrawal, etc.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: BigSur fix for LTS and 12.2.1 was: Release Apache NetBeans 12.2
(vote candidate 1)
Posted by John Mc <mc...@gmail.com>.
>
>
>
> Totally agree, although also agree with Laszlo's annoyance about lack
> of critical / blocking issue, and I think also the 0 votes. Be active
> not passive - call it! :-)
>
>
> Oh I totally understand, and I've not been active recently (Find myself
doing more and more C# at work) around the mailing lists/JIRA, but this
popped up on my radar only last week - which is perfectly understandable
from Lazlo's position as RM. I definitely didn't want to -1 the release
but wanted to call it out in case it was missed by others. Hell if there
was no PR ready I would have +1 without thinking as I don't plan to upgrade
to BigSur until I absolutely need too :)
Regards
John
Re: BigSur fix for LTS and 12.2.1 was: Release Apache NetBeans 12.2
(vote candidate 1)
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 at 08:33, John Mc <mc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 12.0 LTS, that should be our focus. At the end 12.2 is just "dev version",
> > but
> > we should fix 12.0 LTS in my opinion.
> >
> Is it just a "dev version"? Or is it just a release that has a shorter
> support cycle?
Definitely the latter! In hindsight I wish I'd left LTS out of the
release schedule proposal, at least until we had a more consensual
view on what it is and what it means. And we never really got to the
bottom of that discussion when Laszlo kicked it off after 12.0 either.
But in all the discussions that led to it so far, I'd say that the
quarterly releases are the ones actually aimed at the majority of
users.
> Anyways that besides the point, we're releasing software, that software in
> my opinion, short or long term support aside should be suitable for as many
> users as possible. No matter how big a warning you put on the website,
> people will still miss it, they will still complain and they will
> inevitably move to another IDE that works on their OS.
Totally agree, although also agree with Laszlo's annoyance about lack
of critical / blocking issue, and I think also the 0 votes. Be active
not passive - call it! :-)
Mind you, part of me thinks that anyone who upgrades to a new macOS
within a year of release is just asking for trouble anyway ...
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: BigSur fix for LTS and 12.2.1 was: Release Apache NetBeans 12.2
(vote candidate 1)
Posted by John Mc <mc...@gmail.com>.
>
>
> 12.0 LTS, that should be our focus. At the end 12.2 is just "dev version",
> but
> we should fix 12.0 LTS in my opinion.
>
>
Is it just a "dev version"? Or is it just a release that has a shorter
support cycle?
Anyways that besides the point, we're releasing software, that software in
my opinion, short or long term support aside should be suitable for as many
users as possible. No matter how big a warning you put on the website,
people will still miss it, they will still complain and they will
inevitably move to another IDE that works on their OS.
Regards
John