Re: Question for mentors: crediting the original project?

[Ross Gardler <ro...@googlemail.com>]

2009/12/1 Scott Wilson <sc...@gmail.com>:
> A question for mentors:
> As you know Wookie was originally developed within an EU-funded project;
> this has now finished and we're getting ready for the project review. I've
> been asked if:
>
> "On http://incubator.apache.org/wookie/ is it possible to add somewhere that
> the original development was funded by the European Commission through the
> TENCompetence Project?"
> I've taken a look at other incubator sites and can't see any similar
> statements so I'm assuming the answer would most likely be "no", however it
> would be useful to have a pointer to the policy to show the project
> reviewers.

I see no reason why this should not be allowed. I've cc'd this to
general@incubator but suggest you operate under lazy consensus on this
one. We can remove it if anyone objects. However, please add the link
as a nofollow to avoid upsetting any sponsors (who only have nofollow
links).

I am aware of at least one situation in which having this on the
Wookie site will be an advantage, that is providing evidence that the
EC is happy to see code come to the ASF.

One reason why others don't credit the original source of the code is
that it might give an impression that company X owns the code and thus
impacts the impartiality of the project. However, given that, in this
case, we are talking about public funding in the EU I don't see that
as an issue here.

I would suggest that as the project matures this credit should move to
a thanks page or similar.

Ross

> Thanks!
> S



-- 
Ross Gardler

OSS Watch - supporting open source in education and research
http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk

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Re: Question for mentors: crediting the original project?

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Ross Gardler
<ro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2009/12/1 Scott Wilson <sc...@gmail.com>:
>>... "On http://incubator.apache.org/wookie/ is it possible to add somewhere that
>> the original development was funded by the European Commission through the
>> TENCompetence Project?"...

>... I see no reason why this should not be allowed. I've cc'd this to
> general@incubator but suggest you operate under lazy consensus on this
> one. We can remove it if anyone objects. However, please add the link
> as a nofollow to avoid upsetting any sponsors (who only have nofollow
> links)....

I agree with Ross, http://sling.apache.org/site/index.html is an
example (though out of incubation now) where credit is given to the
company which created the original code base (see "history" bit), with
a nofollow link as Ross suggests.

As long as you stick to facts, and use a nofollow link, I think that's
perfectly fine.

-Bertrand

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Re: Question for mentors: crediting the original project?

[Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>]

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Ross Gardler
<ro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2009/12/1 Scott Wilson <sc...@gmail.com>:
>> "On http://incubator.apache.org/wookie/ is it possible to add somewhere that
>> the original development was funded by the European Commission through the
>> TENCompetence Project?"
>
> I see no reason why this should not be allowed.

Agreed! If the project feels its appropriate to do something like
that, it's quite ok. One particularly relevant example I can think of
is HTTPD crediting NCSA [1], so we have in fact a loooong tradition of
doing this kind of thing :)

> please add the link as a nofollow to avoid upsetting any sponsors
> (who only have nofollow links).

Yep. Other kinds of foreign branding like an external project logo are
probably also best avoided.

> One reason why others don't credit the original source of the code is
> that it might give an impression that company X owns the code and thus
> impacts the impartiality of the project. However, given that, in this
> case, we are talking about public funding in the EU I don't see that
> as an issue here.

Hmm, I would actually not be that worried either if it was a company
credit. As long as such statements are (a) true and (b) they don't
interfere with sponsoring efforts. I think what's most important is to
stick to facts and provide relevant information to users and
(potential) contributors. I think a project's origin is relevant
(though it probably becomes less relevant over time).


cheers,


Leo

[1] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/httpd/httpd/trunk/ABOUT_APACHE

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Re: Question for mentors: crediting the original project?

[Dan Brickley <da...@danbri.org>]

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Ross Gardler
<ro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2009/12/1 Scott Wilson <sc...@gmail.com>:
>> A question for mentors:
>> As you know Wookie was originally developed within an EU-funded project;
>> this has now finished and we're getting ready for the project review. I've
>> been asked if:
>>
>> "On http://incubator.apache.org/wookie/ is it possible to add somewhere that
>> the original development was funded by the European Commission through the
>> TENCompetence Project?"
>> I've taken a look at other incubator sites and can't see any similar
>> statements so I'm assuming the answer would most likely be "no", however it
>> would be useful to have a pointer to the policy to show the project
>> reviewers.
>
> I see no reason why this should not be allowed.

I'd love to see it included. The structure of academia tends to reward
scholarly paper-publishing but doesn't really know what to do with
software and data work. European projects also tend towards producing
deliverables that are mostly likely to be giant PDFs rather than
running re-usable code. So when we do finally get useful outputs from
European research funding that enrich the open standards / open source
scene, please let's not be shy in celebrating that! Maybe others will
follow the great example, and start thinking more seriously about
opensource life-after-funding for their codebases, rather than taking
a "throw the code over the wall and hope for the best" approach.
Millions of euros get spend every year on these EU research projects,
that's a lot of lines of code that could be going into the common
pool...

cheers,

Dan

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Re: Question for mentors: crediting the original project?

[Ross Gardler <ro...@googlemail.com>]

2009/12/1 Scott Wilson <sc...@gmail.com>:
> On 1 Dec 2009, at 14:35, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> I note you have added a link but that it is lacks NoFollow. I don't
> know how to do this on Confluence, but we must ensure the link is
> NoFollow otherwise PRC will have upset sponsors banding on its door.
>
> Ross
>
> Confluence adds it automatically: "View Source" on the page gives me:
>
> <H3><A name="Index-History"></A>History</H3>
> <P>Wookie started life as work that was funded by the European Commission
> through the<BR>
> <A href="http://www.tencompetence.org/" rel="nofollow">TENCompetence
> Project</A>.</P>

You are a step ahead of me there then. Thanks.

Ross

-- 
Ross Gardler

OSS Watch - supporting open source in education and research
http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk

Re: Question for mentors: crediting the original project?

[Scott Wilson <sc...@gmail.com>]

On 1 Dec 2009, at 14:35, Ross Gardler wrote:

>
> I note you have added a link but that it is lacks NoFollow. I don't
> know how to do this on Confluence, but we must ensure the link is
> NoFollow otherwise PRC will have upset sponsors banding on its door.
>
> Ross

Confluence adds it automatically: "View Source" on the page gives me:
<H3><A name="Index-History"></A>History</H3>
<P>Wookie started life as work that was funded by the European  
Commission through the<BR>
<A href="http://www.tencompetence.org/" rel="nofollow">TENCompetence  
Project</A>.</P>

Re: Question for mentors: crediting the original project?

[Ross Gardler <ro...@googlemail.com>]

2009/12/1 Ross Gardler <ro...@googlemail.com>:
> 2009/12/1 Scott Wilson <sc...@gmail.com>:
>> A question for mentors:
>> As you know Wookie was originally developed within an EU-funded project;
>> this has now finished and we're getting ready for the project review. I've
>> been asked if:
>>
>> "On http://incubator.apache.org/wookie/ is it possible to add somewhere that
>> the original development was funded by the European Commission through the
>> TENCompetence Project?"
>> I've taken a look at other incubator sites and can't see any similar
>> statements so I'm assuming the answer would most likely be "no", however it
>> would be useful to have a pointer to the policy to show the project
>> reviewers.
>
> I see no reason why this should not be allowed. I've cc'd this to
> general@incubator but suggest you operate under lazy consensus on this
> one. We can remove it if anyone objects. However, please add the link
> as a nofollow to avoid upsetting any sponsors (who only have nofollow
> links).

I note you have added a link but that it is lacks NoFollow. I don't
know how to do this on Confluence, but we must ensure the link is
NoFollow otherwise PRC will have upset sponsors banding on its door.

Ross