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Posted to dev@libcloud.apache.org by Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> on 2010/11/01 20:03:43 UTC
[libcloud] Graduation Vote?
So, We have stable releases, added some committers, but I don't see
'us' learning much more by staying in the incubator.
Anything we need to do before trying to graduate?
If nothing, lets kick off a graduation vote this week.
Thanks,
Paul
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by Roman Bogorodskiy <bo...@gmail.com>.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Roman,
>
> There's an effort for a java based lib cloud in the sandbox:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/libcloud/sandbox/
Ah, sorry, then I got it totally wrong.
Roman Bogorodskiy
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Roman,
There's an effort for a java based lib cloud in the sandbox:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/libcloud/sandbox/
-- dims
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Roman Bogorodskiy <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Have we set the course properly for multiple language support?
>
> What do you mean by multiple language support, is it just translations
> of documentation/site into other languages or something else?
>
> Roman Bogorodskiy
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by Roman Bogorodskiy <bo...@gmail.com>.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Have we set the course properly for multiple language support?
What do you mean by multiple language support, is it just translations
of documentation/site into other languages or something else?
Roman Bogorodskiy
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by Eric Woods <wo...@gmail.com>.
I agree, lets kick off a graduation vote. Support for additional languages (i.e. Java) can remain in the sandbox while the community grows and additional support (e.g. test cases) are built.
Thanks,
Eric
On Nov 1, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Paul Querna wrote:
> I think we go forward with it still in the sandbox area, with the
> intention of growing the community, but its still a slow growth area
> and I wouldn't want to just commit to anything unrealistic.
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Paul,
>>
>> Have we set the course properly for multiple language support?
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> wrote:
>>> So, We have stable releases, added some committers, but I don't see
>>> 'us' learning much more by staying in the incubator.
>>>
>>> Anything we need to do before trying to graduate?
>>>
>>> If nothing, lets kick off a graduation vote this week.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>
RE: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by "Gav..." <ga...@16degrees.com.au>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Querna [mailto:paul@querna.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, 9 November 2010 5:23 AM
> To: libcloud@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
>
> I DO want the Java codebase to part of libcloud -- What I said before
> was that it MAY or MAY NOT grow into a larger, multi-committer,
> sustainable project. Today it isn't, I want it to grow, but I don't
> think it should hold up leaving incubation.
Right, it will move with the rest of the project and a java release
will come when its ready.
I think we are all agreed. Let's start the vote.
We will need to pass our own vote first, then give the rest of the
Incubator PMC a chance to vote also.
Gav...
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Eric Woods <wo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ant... I see what you're saying about a temporary holding place. I'm
> okay with the Java base remaining in sandbox until the lack of support
> Paul refers to is addressed (test cases, more involvement, etc).
> >
> > It is true that Paul is the primary maintainer of the python base.
> Given this, I'm surprised at his opposition to incubating the Java
> code here. The Java initiative represents an opportunity for the
> libcloud project, not a competitor or extra overhead; an opportunity
> for more growth, involvement, and language options for people looking
> to use libcloud's services. This all helps raise awareness around the
> libcloud "brand." The two implementations can benefit from each other.
> The python community is now expressing interest in extending libcloud
> to support storage services. I've already chartered a course for
> storage support in the Java base, and I believe the python code can
> leverage this work.
> >
> > Perhaps we should develop a plan of what to do with the Java stuff as
> checkpoints are reached.
> >
> > - Eric
> >
> > On Nov 8, 2010, at 8:50 AM, ant elder wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:24 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> It would be good to see more of a course set on what to do with
> the
> >>>> Java support. There hasn't been consensus on what to do with it so
> >>>> showing the project can handle that would be good before
> graduation.
> >>>
> >>> It hasn't attracted a diverse committer base.
> >>>
> >>> It hasn't been reviewed on a technical level.
> >>>
> >>> It hasn't been released (or had vetting with RAT).
> >>>
> >>> It is in a sandbox area. That is it's state.
> >>>
> >>> The Python side of libcloud is gaining absolutely zero by remaining
> in
> >>> the Incubator.
> >>>
> >>> The Java side is just a young project which may die, or may grow,
> and
> >>> I certainly hope for the former, but I am not sure how that is
> related
> >>> to the community we have today remaining in the Incubator.
> >>>
> >>> Many TLPs grow communities in different products as they mature,
> and
> >>> as long as we are comfortable with the makeup of the PMC, and trust
> >>> them to know what to do, I don't believe the current situation with
> >>> Java support is a problem for graduation.
> >>>
> >>> The Incubator is about education of people and IP clearance --
> trust
> >>> the people to do the right things, and the IP situation has long
> been
> >>> clear for Libcloud.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'm not sure I'm convinced there's nothing more to be learnt here.
> >> Dealing with what to do with the Java impl would help at least
> >> demonstrate the community can deal with an awkward situation, just
> >> leaving it in the sandbox seems like a holding pattern to me. But
> even
> >> if thats not done i don't get the warm fuzzy feeling that the
> libcloud
> >> community has learnt the Apache Way yet. It would be nice to see not
> >> just the same one person doing all the releases, all the committer
> >> nominations, most of the commits etc, even with graduation there
> >> hasn't been any real discussion that i've seen about what the
> >> graduation requirements are and why they've been met. If for some
> >> reason you were unable to continue here Paul i'm not seeing much
> >> evidence that the others would know all the ropes to continue. What
> do
> >> mentors/others think about this?
> >>
> >> ...ant
> >
> >
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org>.
I DO want the Java codebase to part of libcloud -- What I said before
was that it MAY or MAY NOT grow into a larger, multi-committer,
sustainable project. Today it isn't, I want it to grow, but I don't
think it should hold up leaving incubation.
On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Eric Woods <wo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ant... I see what you're saying about a temporary holding place. I'm okay with the Java base remaining in sandbox until the lack of support Paul refers to is addressed (test cases, more involvement, etc).
>
> It is true that Paul is the primary maintainer of the python base. Given this, I'm surprised at his opposition to incubating the Java code here. The Java initiative represents an opportunity for the libcloud project, not a competitor or extra overhead; an opportunity for more growth, involvement, and language options for people looking to use libcloud's services. This all helps raise awareness around the libcloud "brand." The two implementations can benefit from each other. The python community is now expressing interest in extending libcloud to support storage services. I've already chartered a course for storage support in the Java base, and I believe the python code can leverage this work.
>
> Perhaps we should develop a plan of what to do with the Java stuff as checkpoints are reached.
>
> - Eric
>
> On Nov 8, 2010, at 8:50 AM, ant elder wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:24 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> It would be good to see more of a course set on what to do with the
>>>> Java support. There hasn't been consensus on what to do with it so
>>>> showing the project can handle that would be good before graduation.
>>>
>>> It hasn't attracted a diverse committer base.
>>>
>>> It hasn't been reviewed on a technical level.
>>>
>>> It hasn't been released (or had vetting with RAT).
>>>
>>> It is in a sandbox area. That is it's state.
>>>
>>> The Python side of libcloud is gaining absolutely zero by remaining in
>>> the Incubator.
>>>
>>> The Java side is just a young project which may die, or may grow, and
>>> I certainly hope for the former, but I am not sure how that is related
>>> to the community we have today remaining in the Incubator.
>>>
>>> Many TLPs grow communities in different products as they mature, and
>>> as long as we are comfortable with the makeup of the PMC, and trust
>>> them to know what to do, I don't believe the current situation with
>>> Java support is a problem for graduation.
>>>
>>> The Incubator is about education of people and IP clearance -- trust
>>> the people to do the right things, and the IP situation has long been
>>> clear for Libcloud.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure I'm convinced there's nothing more to be learnt here.
>> Dealing with what to do with the Java impl would help at least
>> demonstrate the community can deal with an awkward situation, just
>> leaving it in the sandbox seems like a holding pattern to me. But even
>> if thats not done i don't get the warm fuzzy feeling that the libcloud
>> community has learnt the Apache Way yet. It would be nice to see not
>> just the same one person doing all the releases, all the committer
>> nominations, most of the commits etc, even with graduation there
>> hasn't been any real discussion that i've seen about what the
>> graduation requirements are and why they've been met. If for some
>> reason you were unable to continue here Paul i'm not seeing much
>> evidence that the others would know all the ropes to continue. What do
>> mentors/others think about this?
>>
>> ...ant
>
>
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by Eric Woods <wo...@gmail.com>.
Ant... I see what you're saying about a temporary holding place. I'm okay with the Java base remaining in sandbox until the lack of support Paul refers to is addressed (test cases, more involvement, etc).
It is true that Paul is the primary maintainer of the python base. Given this, I'm surprised at his opposition to incubating the Java code here. The Java initiative represents an opportunity for the libcloud project, not a competitor or extra overhead; an opportunity for more growth, involvement, and language options for people looking to use libcloud's services. This all helps raise awareness around the libcloud "brand." The two implementations can benefit from each other. The python community is now expressing interest in extending libcloud to support storage services. I've already chartered a course for storage support in the Java base, and I believe the python code can leverage this work.
Perhaps we should develop a plan of what to do with the Java stuff as checkpoints are reached.
- Eric
On Nov 8, 2010, at 8:50 AM, ant elder wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:24 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It would be good to see more of a course set on what to do with the
>>> Java support. There hasn't been consensus on what to do with it so
>>> showing the project can handle that would be good before graduation.
>>
>> It hasn't attracted a diverse committer base.
>>
>> It hasn't been reviewed on a technical level.
>>
>> It hasn't been released (or had vetting with RAT).
>>
>> It is in a sandbox area. That is it's state.
>>
>> The Python side of libcloud is gaining absolutely zero by remaining in
>> the Incubator.
>>
>> The Java side is just a young project which may die, or may grow, and
>> I certainly hope for the former, but I am not sure how that is related
>> to the community we have today remaining in the Incubator.
>>
>> Many TLPs grow communities in different products as they mature, and
>> as long as we are comfortable with the makeup of the PMC, and trust
>> them to know what to do, I don't believe the current situation with
>> Java support is a problem for graduation.
>>
>> The Incubator is about education of people and IP clearance -- trust
>> the people to do the right things, and the IP situation has long been
>> clear for Libcloud.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>
> I'm not sure I'm convinced there's nothing more to be learnt here.
> Dealing with what to do with the Java impl would help at least
> demonstrate the community can deal with an awkward situation, just
> leaving it in the sandbox seems like a holding pattern to me. But even
> if thats not done i don't get the warm fuzzy feeling that the libcloud
> community has learnt the Apache Way yet. It would be nice to see not
> just the same one person doing all the releases, all the committer
> nominations, most of the commits etc, even with graduation there
> hasn't been any real discussion that i've seen about what the
> graduation requirements are and why they've been met. If for some
> reason you were unable to continue here Paul i'm not seeing much
> evidence that the others would know all the ropes to continue. What do
> mentors/others think about this?
>
> ...ant
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by ant elder <an...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:24 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It would be good to see more of a course set on what to do with the
>> Java support. There hasn't been consensus on what to do with it so
>> showing the project can handle that would be good before graduation.
>
> It hasn't attracted a diverse committer base.
>
> It hasn't been reviewed on a technical level.
>
> It hasn't been released (or had vetting with RAT).
>
> It is in a sandbox area. That is it's state.
>
> The Python side of libcloud is gaining absolutely zero by remaining in
> the Incubator.
>
> The Java side is just a young project which may die, or may grow, and
> I certainly hope for the former, but I am not sure how that is related
> to the community we have today remaining in the Incubator.
>
> Many TLPs grow communities in different products as they mature, and
> as long as we are comfortable with the makeup of the PMC, and trust
> them to know what to do, I don't believe the current situation with
> Java support is a problem for graduation.
>
> The Incubator is about education of people and IP clearance -- trust
> the people to do the right things, and the IP situation has long been
> clear for Libcloud.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
I'm not sure I'm convinced there's nothing more to be learnt here.
Dealing with what to do with the Java impl would help at least
demonstrate the community can deal with an awkward situation, just
leaving it in the sandbox seems like a holding pattern to me. But even
if thats not done i don't get the warm fuzzy feeling that the libcloud
community has learnt the Apache Way yet. It would be nice to see not
just the same one person doing all the releases, all the committer
nominations, most of the commits etc, even with graduation there
hasn't been any real discussion that i've seen about what the
graduation requirements are and why they've been met. If for some
reason you were unable to continue here Paul i'm not seeing much
evidence that the others would know all the ropes to continue. What do
mentors/others think about this?
...ant
RE: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by "Schwartz, Philip Marc (LNG-BCT)" <Ph...@lexisnexis.com>.
I agree it should be graduated from incubator status. I do have a few more commits that will help the project along, but they can wait till after the graduation. I think with it our of incubator status and more companies behind it at a production level (like my company ;) ), we will be able to push the project along nicely.
Thank You,
Philip Schwartz
Software Engineering
LexisNexis RIAG
O - 561 999 4472
C - 954 290 4024
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Querna [mailto:paul@querna.org]
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:15 PM
To: libcloud@incubator.apache.org; antelder@apache.org
Subject: Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:24 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It would be good to see more of a course set on what to do with the
> Java support. There hasn't been consensus on what to do with it so
> showing the project can handle that would be good before graduation.
It hasn't attracted a diverse committer base.
It hasn't been reviewed on a technical level.
It hasn't been released (or had vetting with RAT).
It is in a sandbox area. That is it's state.
The Python side of libcloud is gaining absolutely zero by remaining in the Incubator.
The Java side is just a young project which may die, or may grow, and I certainly hope for the former, but I am not sure how that is related to the community we have today remaining in the Incubator.
Many TLPs grow communities in different products as they mature, and as long as we are comfortable with the makeup of the PMC, and trust them to know what to do, I don't believe the current situation with Java support is a problem for graduation.
The Incubator is about education of people and IP clearance -- trust the people to do the right things, and the IP situation has long been clear for Libcloud.
Thanks,
Paul
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Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org>.
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:24 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It would be good to see more of a course set on what to do with the
> Java support. There hasn't been consensus on what to do with it so
> showing the project can handle that would be good before graduation.
It hasn't attracted a diverse committer base.
It hasn't been reviewed on a technical level.
It hasn't been released (or had vetting with RAT).
It is in a sandbox area. That is it's state.
The Python side of libcloud is gaining absolutely zero by remaining in
the Incubator.
The Java side is just a young project which may die, or may grow, and
I certainly hope for the former, but I am not sure how that is related
to the community we have today remaining in the Incubator.
Many TLPs grow communities in different products as they mature, and
as long as we are comfortable with the makeup of the PMC, and trust
them to know what to do, I don't believe the current situation with
Java support is a problem for graduation.
The Incubator is about education of people and IP clearance -- trust
the people to do the right things, and the IP situation has long been
clear for Libcloud.
Thanks,
Paul
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
It would be good to see more of a course set on what to do with the
Java support. There hasn't been consensus on what to do with it so
showing the project can handle that would be good before graduation.
...ant
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> wrote:
> I think we go forward with it still in the sandbox area, with the
> intention of growing the community, but its still a slow growth area
> and I wouldn't want to just commit to anything unrealistic.
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Paul,
>>
>> Have we set the course properly for multiple language support?
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> wrote:
>>> So, We have stable releases, added some committers, but I don't see
>>> 'us' learning much more by staying in the incubator.
>>>
>>> Anything we need to do before trying to graduate?
>>>
>>> If nothing, lets kick off a graduation vote this week.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>
>
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org>.
I think we go forward with it still in the sandbox area, with the
intention of growing the community, but its still a slow growth area
and I wouldn't want to just commit to anything unrealistic.
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Have we set the course properly for multiple language support?
>
> -- dims
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> wrote:
>> So, We have stable releases, added some committers, but I don't see
>> 'us' learning much more by staying in the incubator.
>>
>> Anything we need to do before trying to graduate?
>>
>> If nothing, lets kick off a graduation vote this week.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Paul,
Have we set the course properly for multiple language support?
-- dims
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> wrote:
> So, We have stable releases, added some committers, but I don't see
> 'us' learning much more by staying in the incubator.
>
> Anything we need to do before trying to graduate?
>
> If nothing, lets kick off a graduation vote this week.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
Re: [libcloud] Graduation Vote?
Posted by Jed Smith <je...@jedsmith.org>.
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Paul Querna <pa...@querna.org> wrote:
> So, We have stable releases, added some committers, but I don't see
> 'us' learning much more by staying in the incubator.
>
> Anything we need to do before trying to graduate?
>
> If nothing, lets kick off a graduation vote this week.
Thirded.
--
Jed Smith
jed@jedsmith.org