[OT] This is quite disappointing...

[Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>]

I received a promotional email from Javalobby.org
for a certain commercial product... their opening pitch:

"70% of Java Developers use Struts"

Now I wonder what % use Cocoon and whether those
who use Struts have chosen it because its the better
web application development environment... or just
because Cocoon is more obscure?

Not wanting to start any flame war comparisions here...
just curious what my fellow Cocoon developers think?
And I can't help wonder what it will take for Cocoon to
achieve the recognition it deserves??



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Re: [OT] This is quite disappointing...

[Litrik De Roy <co...@litrik.com>]

Leszek Gawron wrote:

> Derek Hohls wrote:
>
>> I received a promotional email from Javalobby.org
>> for a certain commercial product... their opening pitch:
>>
>> "70% of Java Developers use Struts"
>
> sure ... 49.6% of statistics is useless :)
>
And 82% is made up on the spot. (6% more than last year, BTW)

-- 

Litrik De Roy
www.litrik.com



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Re: [OT] This is quite disappointing...

[Leszek Gawron <lg...@mobilebox.pl>]

Derek Hohls wrote:
> I received a promotional email from Javalobby.org
> for a certain commercial product... their opening pitch:
> 
> "70% of Java Developers use Struts"
sure ... 49.6% of statistics is useless :)

> Now I wonder what % use Cocoon and whether those
> who use Struts have chosen it because its the better
> web application development environment... or just
> because Cocoon is more obscure?
Cocoon was a publishing framework in the first place. It started to become a 
very good web application framework along with flowscript and woody 
introduction. But this whas not that long ago. It is no surprise then that 
Struts has more users.

> Not wanting to start any flame war comparisions here...
> just curious what my fellow Cocoon developers think?
> And I can't help wonder what it will take for Cocoon to
> achieve the recognition it deserves??
We already have a very big community. Every java developer I know gets also 
some kind of sucked into it after I show them what cocoon can do. What we need 
for sure is professional detailed documentation. What more? CForms becoming 
stable. Some steps into stabilizing JavaFlow would also be a blast. Some users 
are considering javascript a not-so-serious-language.

-- 
Leszek Gawron                                      lgawron@mobilebox.pl
Project Manager                                    MobileBox sp. z o.o.
+48 (61) 855 06 67                              http://www.mobilebox.pl
mobile: +48 (501) 720 812                       fax: +48 (61) 853 29 65

Re: [OT] This is quite disappointing...

[Tony Collen <co...@umn.edu>]

Derek Hohls wrote:

> I received a promotional email from Javalobby.org
> for a certain commercial product... their opening pitch:
> 
> "70% of Java Developers use Struts"
> 
> Now I wonder what % use Cocoon and whether those
> who use Struts have chosen it because its the better
> web application development environment... or just
> because Cocoon is more obscure?

Because Struts is "the easy choice," at least according to one blog I 
read.  And now I'm kicking myself because I can't find the @#^@#@ 
article to reference.

Then again, I've never ever used Struts, and I've only glanced at Struts 
books and some reading material, so I have no experience to work from. 
But I would like to say (and this is a completely uneducated guess...) 
that most places choose to use Struts because it's what everyone else is 
using and it seems to be "standard."

An interesting thing to note is that Struts 2.0 is going to be based on 
JSF, which is not really all that considering that Craig McClanahan is 
at the helm of both projects.

> Not wanting to start any flame war comparisions here...
> just curious what my fellow Cocoon developers think?
> And I can't help wonder what it will take for Cocoon to
> achieve the recognition it deserves??

Frankly, I don't really think about it all that much.  I started working 
with Cocoon because we were going to be using it at one of my old jobs, 
and now I've left that job and moved on.  I guess I would only really 
pick up Struts if my job required it, mostly because of all the time 
I've invested in learning Cocoon and all the related technologies.

I guess the problem is that not only are there more jobs that list 
Struts as a requirement, but there's also a larger pool of developers 
who know Struts, so it all sort of feeds off itself.  Unfortunately, 
I've never used Struts, so if I go to a job where they want Struts 
experience, and I show up trying to get people using Cocoon instead, I'm 
at a disadvantage since I haven't actually done anything with Struts.

Although since I'm a committer I am a little biased towards Cocoon :)


Tony

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