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Posted to user@lenya.apache.org by Torsten Schlabach <TS...@gmx.net> on 2004/05/28 10:45:40 UTC
Website Update and Download Directory
Dear Lenya developers,
I am trying to use Lenya in one ouf our projects as pilot and therefore
struggle with a number of different things including understanding the
concept, finding documentation and making it work.
What is very confusing (and will probably hold people back from using it and
joining the community) is the fact that the website
http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/ is sometimes quite outdates.
Two examples:
1. There is a RC4 oder RC5 (I am not yet sure; see my other mail) but on the
page is is still RC3 announced. (By the way: Are there any release notes
what the differences between RC3, RC4 und RC5 are.)
2. Using Gmane for searching the mailing lists is a nightmare. There is the
much better alternative at http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/. Michael
Wechner wrote some weeks ago that he hat put that in CVS for the website to
appear under "Mailing Lists" as an alternative. But it still isn't there.
3. There are so many different FTP/HTTP download servers that all have
different latest versions. This does not necessarily makes it easier to stay
current. I recognize that this might be due to the complicated structure of
the whole FSF / Apache organization. But it might be worth fixing? Also why
is the RC5 source 9 MB and the nightly snapshot > 70 MB?
Please understand: I don't want to blame anyone; I love Lenya which is why I
take the time to try to make it work. I am not sure the core team is aware
of these issues.
Torsten
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Re: Website Update and Download Directory
Posted by Torsten Schlabach <TS...@gmx.net>.
>> RC4 and RC5 are not official releases. They are just "inofficial"
>> previews.
Are they less "official" than RC3?
Torsten
> On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 10:45, Torsten Schlabach wrote:
> > Dear Lenya developers,
> >
> > I am trying to use Lenya in one ouf our projects as pilot and therefore
> > struggle with a number of different things including understanding the
> > concept, finding documentation and making it work.
> >
> > What is very confusing (and will probably hold people back from using it
> and
> > joining the community) is the fact that the website
> > http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/ is sometimes quite outdates.
> >
> > Two examples:
> >
> > 1. There is a RC4 oder RC5 (I am not yet sure; see my other mail) but on
> the
> > page is is still RC3 announced.
>
> RC4 and RC5 are not official releases. They are just "inofficial"
> previews.
>
>
> > (By the way: Are there any release notes
> > what the differences between RC3, RC4 und RC5 are.)
>
> See above.
>
> --
> Rolf Kulemann
>
>
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>
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Re: Website Update and Download Directory
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 10:45, Torsten Schlabach wrote:
> Dear Lenya developers,
>
> I am trying to use Lenya in one ouf our projects as pilot and therefore
> struggle with a number of different things including understanding the
> concept, finding documentation and making it work.
>
> What is very confusing (and will probably hold people back from using it and
> joining the community) is the fact that the website
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/ is sometimes quite outdates.
>
> Two examples:
>
> 1. There is a RC4 oder RC5 (I am not yet sure; see my other mail) but on the
> page is is still RC3 announced.
RC4 and RC5 are not official releases. They are just "inofficial"
previews.
> (By the way: Are there any release notes
> what the differences between RC3, RC4 und RC5 are.)
See above.
--
Rolf Kulemann
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Re: Website Update and Download Directory
Posted by Torsten Schlabach <TS...@gmx.net>.
>> the reason for the lock-in: we tried to make our forrest docs editable
>> from lenya about a year ago.
Well, if you're developing a CMS it makes sense to use it to edit your own
site! This will increase trust in the project ... ;-)
>> this introduced dependencies with our custom
>> skins etc.. thorsten can give you the whole story :)
Might be interesting in case he finds time. This will probably be for the
benefit of a lot of people on this list to avoid such problems.
Torsten
> Torsten Schlabach wrote:
>
> > I am trying to use Lenya in one ouf our projects as pilot and therefore
> > struggle with a number of different things including understanding the
> > concept, finding documentation and making it work.
>
> please don't hold back. this kind of feedback is very important for us
> because as you wrote, we are not always aware of outside perceptions.
> especially when it is written in a friendly tone like yours :)
>
> > What is very confusing (and will probably hold people back from using it
> and
> > joining the community) is the fact that the website
> > http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/ is sometimes quite outdates.
>
> yes, that is true. we unfortunately locked ourselves into an old forrest
> release and its a PITA to update the site. thorsten scherler is working
> to make the site generation possible again with the latest forrest. the
> reason for the lock-in: we tried to make our forrest docs editable from
> lenya about a year ago. this introduced dependencies with our custom
> skins etc.. thorsten can give you the whole story :)
>
> > 1. There is a RC4 oder RC5 (I am not yet sure; see my other mail) but on
> the
> > page is is still RC3 announced. (By the way: Are there any release notes
> > what the differences between RC3, RC4 und RC5 are.)
>
> there arent at the moment. this makes me wonder if we should start using
> changes.xml like cocoon does. i never liked it because i have to enter
> the same information in cvs, bugzilla AND changes.xml. i'd rather focus
> on having good comments on my commits, frankly, than having to maintain
> yet another changelog file.
>
> with the appropriate bugzilla queries, its easy to get all closed bugs
> between 2 dates and do release notes from those. ideally, cvs commits
> with bug # in them would attach comments to the appropriate bugs. this
> kind of integration has been done before, maybe a topic for
> infrastructure?
>
> > 2. Using Gmane for searching the mailing lists is a nightmare. There is
> the
> > much better alternative at http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/. Michael
> > Wechner wrote some weeks ago that he hat put that in CVS for the website
> to
> > appear under "Mailing Lists" as an alternative. But it still isn't
> there.
>
> yep, see above
>
> > 3. There are so many different FTP/HTTP download servers that all have
> > different latest versions. This does not necessarily makes it easier to
> stay
> > current. I recognize that this might be due to the complicated structure
> of
> > the whole FSF / Apache organization. But it might be worth fixing? Also
> why
> > is the RC5 source 9 MB and the nightly snapshot > 70 MB?
>
> the build script for the nightly is broken. if i remember correctly it
> has the compiled classes in the src snapshot as well.
>
> > Please understand: I don't want to blame anyone; I love Lenya which is
> why I
> > take the time to try to make it work. I am not sure the core team is
> aware
> > of these issues.
>
> as i said, keep it coming. thanks,
>
> -gregor
>
> --
> Gregor J. Rothfuss
> Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
> http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
> gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: lenya-user-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: lenya-user-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
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Re: Website Update and Download Directory
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> > 1. There is a RC4 oder RC5 (I am not yet sure; see my other mail) but on the
> > page is is still RC3 announced. (By the way: Are there any release notes
> > what the differences between RC3, RC4 und RC5 are.)
>
> there arent at the moment. this makes me wonder if we should start using
> changes.xml like cocoon does. i never liked it because i have to enter
> the same information in cvs, bugzilla AND changes.xml. i'd rather focus
> on having good comments on my commits, frankly, than having to maintain
> yet another changelog file.
I agree with that. Manually maintaining multiple information pools for the same
information guarantees that they become inconsistent and dealing with such
inconsistencies is a nightmare.
> with the appropriate bugzilla queries, its easy to get all closed bugs
> between 2 dates and do release notes from those.
That becomes even easier when Bugzilla is provided with more detailed values for
"version" and "milestone": 1.2.3 instead of just 1.2 etc. "version" is the
earliest known version with the bug and "milestone" is the earliest version
without the bug. ("version" probably is irrelevant for enhancement entries.)
> ideally, cvs commits
> with bug # in them would attach comments to the appropriate bugs. this
> kind of integration has been done before, maybe a topic for infrastructure?
I will suggest this. (If I interpret some mails from the infrastructure people
correctly there finally will be an upgrade of the Apache Bugzilla to a current
version RSN (real soon now) :-) An integration with Subversion should also be
considered.
Andreas
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Re: Website Update and Download Directory
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> > 1. There is a RC4 oder RC5 (I am not yet sure; see my other mail) but on the
> > page is is still RC3 announced. (By the way: Are there any release notes
> > what the differences between RC3, RC4 und RC5 are.)
>
> there arent at the moment. this makes me wonder if we should start using
> changes.xml like cocoon does. i never liked it because i have to enter
> the same information in cvs, bugzilla AND changes.xml. i'd rather focus
> on having good comments on my commits, frankly, than having to maintain
> yet another changelog file.
I agree with that. Manually maintaining multiple information pools for the same
information guarantees that they become inconsistent and dealing with such
inconsistencies is a nightmare.
> with the appropriate bugzilla queries, its easy to get all closed bugs
> between 2 dates and do release notes from those.
That becomes even easier when Bugzilla is provided with more detailed values for
"version" and "milestone": 1.2.3 instead of just 1.2 etc. "version" is the
earliest known version with the bug and "milestone" is the earliest version
without the bug. ("version" probably is irrelevant for enhancement entries.)
> ideally, cvs commits
> with bug # in them would attach comments to the appropriate bugs. this
> kind of integration has been done before, maybe a topic for infrastructure?
I will suggest this. (If I interpret some mails from the infrastructure people
correctly there finally will be an upgrade of the Apache Bugzilla to a current
version RSN (real soon now) :-) An integration with Subversion should also be
considered.
Andreas
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Re: Website Update and Download Directory
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
Hello list, hello Torsten,
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Torsten Schlabach wrote:
> [...]
>
>> What is very confusing (and will probably hold people back from using
>> it and
>> joining the community) is the fact that the website
>> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/ is sometimes quite outdates.
>
>
> yes, that is true. we unfortunately locked ourselves into an old
> forrest release and its a PITA to update the site. thorsten scherler
> is working to make the site generation possible again with the latest
> forrest. the reason for the lock-in: we tried to make our forrest docs
> editable from lenya about a year ago. this introduced dependencies
> with our custom skins etc.. thorsten can give you the whole story :)
>
Yupp, i am trying to get the old skin working with the newest SVN of
forrest. ...but since the aim was to get it working with *latest*
forrest SVN my daily "success" to get the old skin working suffer from
daily changes in the sources of forrest ;-). No blame on anybody but
their change a lot in regards of the skin conf from the version that
comes with lenya and the one of todays forrest SVN. Please see
http://issues.cocoondev.org/jira//secure/ViewIssue.jspa?key=FOR-146 for
more information about what they changed. Basicly I have to refactor the
whole skin.
...I should have been finished by now but I had to much to do at work
(have to prepare a presentation for today for a conference) and at home
(I had to cure a new dog that was hit by a car). So sorry that I could
not be faster :(.
>
>> Please understand: I don't want to blame anyone; I love Lenya which
>> is why I
>> take the time to try to make it work. I am not sure the core team is
>> aware
>> of these issues.
>
>
> as i said, keep it coming. thanks,
>
> -gregor
>
Sad but true we *all* wish the site to be update ASAP. I will have to
discuss with the other devs about a quick fix of our website. Basicly I
would suggest to build our site with the "krysalis-site" - skin and I
will try to find some time on the weekend to finish the refactoring of
the lenya-site skin!
I am *realy* sorry for any inconvenience.
...stay tuned and keep it coming (like gregor stated). No offence taken ;-)
King regards
thorsten
--
Thorsten Scherler
Departamento de Desarrollo de Proyectos
Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información S.A.U.
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Re: Website Update and Download Directory
Posted by "Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>.
Torsten Schlabach wrote:
> I am trying to use Lenya in one ouf our projects as pilot and therefore
> struggle with a number of different things including understanding the
> concept, finding documentation and making it work.
please don't hold back. this kind of feedback is very important for us
because as you wrote, we are not always aware of outside perceptions.
especially when it is written in a friendly tone like yours :)
> What is very confusing (and will probably hold people back from using it and
> joining the community) is the fact that the website
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/ is sometimes quite outdates.
yes, that is true. we unfortunately locked ourselves into an old forrest
release and its a PITA to update the site. thorsten scherler is working
to make the site generation possible again with the latest forrest. the
reason for the lock-in: we tried to make our forrest docs editable from
lenya about a year ago. this introduced dependencies with our custom
skins etc.. thorsten can give you the whole story :)
> 1. There is a RC4 oder RC5 (I am not yet sure; see my other mail) but on the
> page is is still RC3 announced. (By the way: Are there any release notes
> what the differences between RC3, RC4 und RC5 are.)
there arent at the moment. this makes me wonder if we should start using
changes.xml like cocoon does. i never liked it because i have to enter
the same information in cvs, bugzilla AND changes.xml. i'd rather focus
on having good comments on my commits, frankly, than having to maintain
yet another changelog file.
with the appropriate bugzilla queries, its easy to get all closed bugs
between 2 dates and do release notes from those. ideally, cvs commits
with bug # in them would attach comments to the appropriate bugs. this
kind of integration has been done before, maybe a topic for infrastructure?
> 2. Using Gmane for searching the mailing lists is a nightmare. There is the
> much better alternative at http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/. Michael
> Wechner wrote some weeks ago that he hat put that in CVS for the website to
> appear under "Mailing Lists" as an alternative. But it still isn't there.
yep, see above
> 3. There are so many different FTP/HTTP download servers that all have
> different latest versions. This does not necessarily makes it easier to stay
> current. I recognize that this might be due to the complicated structure of
> the whole FSF / Apache organization. But it might be worth fixing? Also why
> is the RC5 source 9 MB and the nightly snapshot > 70 MB?
the build script for the nightly is broken. if i remember correctly it
has the compiled classes in the src snapshot as well.
> Please understand: I don't want to blame anyone; I love Lenya which is why I
> take the time to try to make it work. I am not sure the core team is aware
> of these issues.
as i said, keep it coming. thanks,
-gregor
--
Gregor J. Rothfuss
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya
gregor.rothfuss@wyona.com gregor@apache.org
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