Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.

[Harish Prabandham <Ha...@eng.sun.com>]

Hi,

The problem is there are too many scripts that do the same thing.
This is not a very good thing.  This is why I want to remove it from
the work space.

Please suggest some reasons stronger than these to stay.


Thanx


Harish


Hans Bergsten wrote:

> Harish Prabandham wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am planning to remove startup.* and shutdown.* scripts. These
> > have been replaced (for over a week now) with
> >
> > tomcat.sh start  (or tomcat.bat start)
> >
> > tomcat.sh stop  (or tomcat.bat stop)
> >
> > commands.
> >
> > Please raise any objections you might have.
>
> Please don't remove them, keep them as simple wrappers for "tomcat start/stop"
> instead. This makes it easy to start/stop the server in a GUI where you can
> just double-click these scripts/bat files.
>
> --
> Hans Bergsten           hans@gefionsoftware.com
> Gefion Software         http://www.gefionsoftware.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org

Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.

[co...@eng.sun.com]

> Use a wizard instead, so that the wizard can be run to connect it to
> anything, after the install process. That would make it very flexable.
> Ant could be added to or built into a new app, for doing configuration
> managment after install... All you would have to do is update the XML file
> to update the process.

Ok, great, I should start working then :-)

The problem is that Apache ( at least on Unix ) can be installed in
many styles ( thanks RedHat for inventing yet another one, and of course
Debian is different too !).

I have RPMs almost woking ( still problems with sed-ing httpd.conf ),
and solaris PKG seems easy. For Windows - I don't have or use it ( as OS ),
but InstallShield seems to work on Linux, Solaris and Win. ( for Unix
I like the native package system, but InstallShield may be nice if
you don't have root access or you like graphic installers )

I'll take a look at WebStart - it should be a good tool for wizards, but
first we need to figure out what the wizard should do and what is the
right setup - and we need some feedback about that. Do you know
any wizard for making wizards?

( after everything is stable we can spend time making the wizards )


Costin

Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.

[Brill Pappin <br...@jmonkey.com>]

----- Original Message -----
From: <Co...@eng.sun.com>
To: <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.


> Brill Pappin wrote:
>
> > A man after my own hart... I love this guy.
> >
> > have you guys thought of using InstallAnywhere NOW! ??
> > its a freeware 'light' version of their product that should do the job
> > required very well... and it will build single file installers for most
> > platforms, including Mac and Windows.
> >
> > See: http://www.installanywhere.com/products/now.html
> >
> > This is the one I use, and recommend to clients when required to do
so...
> > and no I am not affiliated in any way :)
>
> Yes, I have done an installer - I'm not sure about licence issues and how
to
> automate ( and I have tons of stuff to do with higher priority :-).
>
> Also, we need to run some scripts at install ( to integrate with Apache -
> that's the hard install, tomcat standalone is easy anyway) - and the
> free one can't handle it.

Use a wizard instead, so that the wizard can be run to connect it to
anything, after the install process. That would make it very flexable.
Ant could be added to or built into a new app, for doing configuration
managment after install... All you would have to do is update the XML file
to update the process.

> Plus - it creates only one icon for windows...

This is not really such a problem... If your in windows, then you only need
one icon, because you can have a 'control' panel... Has anyone out there
used JRun in windows? it does exactly that, and I find it very handy... of
course, that would mean that you still had access to the consol version,
something like the  apachectl script I assume.


- Brill Pappin
  www.jmonkey.com

  The sooner you fall behind,
  the more time you will have
  to catch up."

Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.

[Co...@eng.sun.com]

Brill Pappin wrote:

> A man after my own hart... I love this guy.
>
> have you guys thought of using InstallAnywhere NOW! ??
> its a freeware 'light' version of their product that should do the job
> required very well... and it will build single file installers for most
> platforms, including Mac and Windows.
>
> See: http://www.installanywhere.com/products/now.html
>
> This is the one I use, and recommend to clients when required to do so...
> and no I am not affiliated in any way :)

Yes, I have done an installer - I'm not sure about licence issues and how to
automate ( and I have tons of stuff to do with higher priority :-).

Also, we need to run some scripts at install ( to integrate with Apache -
that's the hard install, tomcat standalone is easy anyway) - and the
free one can't handle it.

Plus - it creates only one icon for windows...

Costin

Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.

[Brill Pappin <br...@jmonkey.com>]

A man after my own hart... I love this guy.

have you guys thought of using InstallAnywhere NOW! ??
its a freeware 'light' version of their product that should do the job
required very well... and it will build single file installers for most
platforms, including Mac and Windows.

See: http://www.installanywhere.com/products/now.html

This is the one I use, and recommend to clients when required to do so...
and no I am not affiliated in any way :)

Their enterprise version is *very* slick... but I don't know what the
ramifications would be for an Open Source project such as this... (none that
I see, but I'm sure some of you would disagree). There is also the problem
of budget for the project... is there even one? if someone wants to ask,
ZeroG might be willing to pass along a copy of their enterprise version for
use with Tomcat... If someone wants to approach them, someone who is a more
'central' member of this group, I'll see if I can find my inside contact, so
you can skip the sales people.

- Brill Pappin
  www.jmonkey.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
To: <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.


> James Duncan Davidson wrote:
> >
> > "Craig R. McClanahan" wrote:
> > > I agree ... the ease-of-use argument is sufficient for me since you
can do it without
> > > duplicate code.
> >
> > Maybe a different way out is to have an installer for Win32 create start
> > menu or desktop links for "start" and "stop"? After all, if you are
> > going to go after ease of use, then you really should go all the way..
> > :)
>
> This is the way to go. I wrote the win32 installer for Apache JServ and
> people loved it. My motto was: install it with less then 10 mouse
> clicks. And I was successful, try it out yourself.
>
> --
> Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
>                           able to give birth to a dancing star.
> <st...@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>

Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.

[Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>]

James Duncan Davidson wrote:
> 
> "Craig R. McClanahan" wrote:
> > I agree ... the ease-of-use argument is sufficient for me since you can do it without
> > duplicate code.
> 
> Maybe a different way out is to have an installer for Win32 create start
> menu or desktop links for "start" and "stop"? After all, if you are
> going to go after ease of use, then you really should go all the way..
> :)

This is the way to go. I wrote the win32 installer for Apache JServ and
people loved it. My motto was: install it with less then 10 mouse
clicks. And I was successful, try it out yourself.

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.

[James Duncan Davidson <ja...@eng.sun.com>]

"Craig R. McClanahan" wrote:
> I agree ... the ease-of-use argument is sufficient for me since you can do it without
> duplicate code.

Maybe a different way out is to have an installer for Win32 create start
menu or desktop links for "start" and "stop"? After all, if you are
going to go after ease of use, then you really should go all the way..
:)

.duncan

-- 
James Davidson                                     duncan@eng.sun.com 
Java + XML / Portable Code + Portable Data                 !try; do()

Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.

["Craig R. McClanahan" <cm...@mytownnet.com>]

Hans Bergsten wrote:

> Harish Prabandham wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > The problem is there are too many scripts that do the same thing.
> > This is not a very good thing.  This is why I want to remove it from
> > the work space.
> >
> > Please suggest some reasons stronger than these to stay.
>
> Hmmm.... Isn't ease-of-use strong enough? The number of scripts shouldn't
> matter, as long as there's no duplicated code that's easy to forget to
> change in all places. You have solved that with the single tomcat script
> and the start/stop option. Keeping the startup and shutdown scripts as
> simple wrappers (i.e. no duplicated code) to make it easy to use in a
> GUI environment shouldn't be a problem. Teaching Windows newbies how to
> use a command tool is ;-)
>

I agree ... the ease-of-use argument is sufficient for me since you can do it without
duplicate code.

You think the command line is hard, try to teach a Windows user about Emacs!   :-)

Craig McClanahan

Re: Removing startup.* and shutdown.* scripts.

[Hans Bergsten <ha...@gefionsoftware.com>]

Harish Prabandham wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The problem is there are too many scripts that do the same thing.
> This is not a very good thing.  This is why I want to remove it from
> the work space.
> 
> Please suggest some reasons stronger than these to stay.

Hmmm.... Isn't ease-of-use strong enough? The number of scripts shouldn't
matter, as long as there's no duplicated code that's easy to forget to
change in all places. You have solved that with the single tomcat script
and the start/stop option. Keeping the startup and shutdown scripts as
simple wrappers (i.e. no duplicated code) to make it easy to use in a
GUI environment shouldn't be a problem. Teaching Windows newbies how to
use a command tool is ;-)


> Hans Bergsten wrote:
> 
> > Harish Prabandham wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am planning to remove startup.* and shutdown.* scripts. These
> > > have been replaced (for over a week now) with
> > >
> > > tomcat.sh start  (or tomcat.bat start)
> > >
> > > tomcat.sh stop  (or tomcat.bat stop)
> > >
> > > commands.
> > >
> > > Please raise any objections you might have.
> >
> > Please don't remove them, keep them as simple wrappers for "tomcat start/stop"
> > instead. This makes it easy to start/stop the server in a GUI where you can
> > just double-click these scripts/bat files.

-- 
Hans Bergsten		hans@gefionsoftware.com
Gefion Software		http://www.gefionsoftware.com