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Posted to dev@lucene.apache.org by Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com> on 2020/10/30 14:30:34 UTC
Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
I've run into this in SOLR-14974. The dependency is on Java 11.
Everything works if you build and run under Java 11 but of course it
won't fly on Java 8 (won't even compile).
I wonder what are your thoughts on keeping Java 8 as the minimum for
Solr 8x. Is 8.x going to be on Java 8 forever? Or is minimum of Java
11 a possibility, only nobody got to it yet?
Dawid
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Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
Posted by David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>.
> The only option I see at the moment is to remove the clustering contrib
entirely from 8x because it can't be upgraded.
That makes sense to me. Maybe it shouldn't be a contrib henceforth? In
other words, maybe it should be a 3rd-party package? Then our users could
get updates to this contrib independently of the Lucene/Solr release
cycle. It's one of the benefits of breaking up the Solr monolith.
In a separate thread in this dev list, pertaining to the DIH, Gézapeti Cseh
suggested that Solr might introduce something similar to "Apache Commons",
but for Solr contribs. I think that's worth more investigation. It's
obviously highly relevant to this thread.
~ David Smiley
Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:52 AM Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, right. Until 9x is not really satisfying - the problem is more
> complex because people bring up CVEs for the clustering contrib that
> is currently in 8x and, for better or worse, it affects this line for
> the foreseeable future. I don't plan to invest time to make Java 8
> compatible backports of the clustering engine so I'm wondering what to
> do with it now. The only option I see at the moment is to remove the
> clustering contrib entirely from 8x because it can't be upgraded.
> -
>
> Dawid
>
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 3:40 PM David Smiley <ds...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > SOLR-14974 is about a contrib, the clustering contrib in particular.
> That contrib is a plugin, and it will eventually be "packaged" --
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-14688 which will ultimately
> mean that someone running on Solr 8 that is also using Java 11 can install
> that package when it's eventually released (when 9.0 is released, or
> thereafter). So I don't think we should change Solr core / SolrJ 's
> minimum Java requirements just because of the needs of a contrib. I think
> that's solved by the package system.
> >
> > ~ David Smiley
> > Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:31 AM Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've run into this in SOLR-14974. The dependency is on Java 11.
> >> Everything works if you build and run under Java 11 but of course it
> >> won't fly on Java 8 (won't even compile).
> >>
> >> I wonder what are your thoughts on keeping Java 8 as the minimum for
> >> Solr 8x. Is 8.x going to be on Java 8 forever? Or is minimum of Java
> >> 11 a possibility, only nobody got to it yet?
> >>
> >> Dawid
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> >>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
Posted by Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com>.
Yeah, right. Until 9x is not really satisfying - the problem is more
complex because people bring up CVEs for the clustering contrib that
is currently in 8x and, for better or worse, it affects this line for
the foreseeable future. I don't plan to invest time to make Java 8
compatible backports of the clustering engine so I'm wondering what to
do with it now. The only option I see at the moment is to remove the
clustering contrib entirely from 8x because it can't be upgraded.
-
Dawid
On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 3:40 PM David Smiley <ds...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> SOLR-14974 is about a contrib, the clustering contrib in particular. That contrib is a plugin, and it will eventually be "packaged" -- https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-14688 which will ultimately mean that someone running on Solr 8 that is also using Java 11 can install that package when it's eventually released (when 9.0 is released, or thereafter). So I don't think we should change Solr core / SolrJ 's minimum Java requirements just because of the needs of a contrib. I think that's solved by the package system.
>
> ~ David Smiley
> Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:31 AM Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've run into this in SOLR-14974. The dependency is on Java 11.
>> Everything works if you build and run under Java 11 but of course it
>> won't fly on Java 8 (won't even compile).
>>
>> I wonder what are your thoughts on keeping Java 8 as the minimum for
>> Solr 8x. Is 8.x going to be on Java 8 forever? Or is minimum of Java
>> 11 a possibility, only nobody got to it yet?
>>
>> Dawid
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>
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Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
Posted by David Smiley <ds...@apache.org>.
SOLR-14974 is about a contrib, the clustering contrib in particular. That
contrib is a plugin, and it will eventually be "packaged" --
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-14688 which will ultimately mean
that someone running on Solr 8 that is also using Java 11 can install that
package when it's eventually released (when 9.0 is released, or
thereafter). So I don't think we should change Solr core / SolrJ 's
minimum Java requirements just because of the needs of a contrib. I think
that's solved by the package system.
~ David Smiley
Apache Lucene/Solr Search Developer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwsmiley
On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:31 AM Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've run into this in SOLR-14974. The dependency is on Java 11.
> Everything works if you build and run under Java 11 but of course it
> won't fly on Java 8 (won't even compile).
>
> I wonder what are your thoughts on keeping Java 8 as the minimum for
> Solr 8x. Is 8.x going to be on Java 8 forever? Or is minimum of Java
> 11 a possibility, only nobody got to it yet?
>
> Dawid
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>
Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
Posted by Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com>.
> If we can't support it, there's no need to keep it. If someone wants, they can assume ownership of a third party package.
I am the author/ owner of that third party package, Ishan... and I've
been working for two weeks to understand how Solr distributed
processing works so that I could write that clustering extension's
distributed version. And I did upgrade everything so that it works
just fine (on master).
Anyway, we initially helped with the clustering contrib but that was a
long time ago and it's been neglected. There are some things that
can't be done easily externally if you remove it but I don't know how
many people will actually miss it if removed. One way to find out
would be to just do it.
Dawid
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Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
Posted by Adrien Grand <jp...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Ishan, I had misunderstood!
On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 2:12 AM Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Adrien,
> I don't suggest we do so in 8.7, unless there's CVE that need immediate
> addressing. +1 to removing in branch_8x.
> Thanks,
> Ishan
>
> On Fri, 30 Oct, 2020, 11:22 pm Adrien Grand, <jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ishan, why would this be a blocker for 8.7? Would it be good enough to
>> remove in branch_8x?
>>
>> Le ven. 30 oct. 2020 à 18:33, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
>> ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>
>>> +1 to removing it (in 8.7 with a respin, if needed). If we can't support
>>> it, there's no need to keep it. If someone wants, they can assume ownership
>>> of a third party package. +1 to removing all non essential code and
>>> trimming down the Solr distribution. There's no good reason for Solr, which
>>> is in effect just a distributed layer on top of Lucene, to be a 200MB
>>> download.
>>>
>>> On Fri, 30 Oct, 2020, 9:50 pm Uwe Schindler, <uw...@thetaphi.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I fully agree with Erick,
>>>>
>>>> Please don't start and try to get 8.x on Java 11. Release Lucene/Solr 9!
>>>>
>>>> Uwe
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Uwe Schindler
>>>> Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen
>>>> https://www.thetaphi.de
>>>> eMail: uwe@thetaphi.de
>>>>
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>
>>>> > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 3:39 PM
>>>> > To: dev@lucene.apache.org
>>>> > Subject: Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
>>>> >
>>>> > I’m always reluctant to change something like this for a point
>>>> release.
>>>> >
>>>> > I’ve been supposing that we’d release Solr 9 for a while, I always
>>>> thought
>>>> > that moving to Java 11 would be a driver for the 9.0 release but I
>>>> wasn’t
>>>> > correct in that.
>>>> >
>>>> > That expectation has been complicated by the whole reference impl
>>>> thing.
>>>> >
>>>> > What I’d suggest is that we push forward with a 9.0 release and
>>>> consider
>>>> > it something of a placeholder while the reference impl either becomes
>>>> > our main line or doesn’t. Then your problem disappears ;).
>>>> Unfortunately,
>>>> > a new major release always takes some time.
>>>> >
>>>> > FWIW,
>>>> > Erick
>>>> >
>>>> > > On Oct 30, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I've run into this in SOLR-14974. The dependency is on Java 11.
>>>> > > Everything works if you build and run under Java 11 but of course it
>>>> > > won't fly on Java 8 (won't even compile).
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I wonder what are your thoughts on keeping Java 8 as the minimum for
>>>> > > Solr 8x. Is 8.x going to be on Java 8 forever? Or is minimum of Java
>>>> > > 11 a possibility, only nobody got to it yet?
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Dawid
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
--
Adrien
Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
Posted by Ishan Chattopadhyaya <ic...@gmail.com>.
Hi Adrien,
I don't suggest we do so in 8.7, unless there's CVE that need immediate
addressing. +1 to removing in branch_8x.
Thanks,
Ishan
On Fri, 30 Oct, 2020, 11:22 pm Adrien Grand, <jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ishan, why would this be a blocker for 8.7? Would it be good enough to
> remove in branch_8x?
>
> Le ven. 30 oct. 2020 à 18:33, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
> ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>> +1 to removing it (in 8.7 with a respin, if needed). If we can't support
>> it, there's no need to keep it. If someone wants, they can assume ownership
>> of a third party package. +1 to removing all non essential code and
>> trimming down the Solr distribution. There's no good reason for Solr, which
>> is in effect just a distributed layer on top of Lucene, to be a 200MB
>> download.
>>
>> On Fri, 30 Oct, 2020, 9:50 pm Uwe Schindler, <uw...@thetaphi.de> wrote:
>>
>>> I fully agree with Erick,
>>>
>>> Please don't start and try to get 8.x on Java 11. Release Lucene/Solr 9!
>>>
>>> Uwe
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Uwe Schindler
>>> Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen
>>> https://www.thetaphi.de
>>> eMail: uwe@thetaphi.de
>>>
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>
>>> > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 3:39 PM
>>> > To: dev@lucene.apache.org
>>> > Subject: Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
>>> >
>>> > I’m always reluctant to change something like this for a point release.
>>> >
>>> > I’ve been supposing that we’d release Solr 9 for a while, I always
>>> thought
>>> > that moving to Java 11 would be a driver for the 9.0 release but I
>>> wasn’t
>>> > correct in that.
>>> >
>>> > That expectation has been complicated by the whole reference impl
>>> thing.
>>> >
>>> > What I’d suggest is that we push forward with a 9.0 release and
>>> consider
>>> > it something of a placeholder while the reference impl either becomes
>>> > our main line or doesn’t. Then your problem disappears ;).
>>> Unfortunately,
>>> > a new major release always takes some time.
>>> >
>>> > FWIW,
>>> > Erick
>>> >
>>> > > On Oct 30, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I've run into this in SOLR-14974. The dependency is on Java 11.
>>> > > Everything works if you build and run under Java 11 but of course it
>>> > > won't fly on Java 8 (won't even compile).
>>> > >
>>> > > I wonder what are your thoughts on keeping Java 8 as the minimum for
>>> > > Solr 8x. Is 8.x going to be on Java 8 forever? Or is minimum of Java
>>> > > 11 a possibility, only nobody got to it yet?
>>> > >
>>> > > Dawid
>>> > >
>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>>
>>>
Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
Posted by Adrien Grand <jp...@gmail.com>.
Ishan, why would this be a blocker for 8.7? Would it be good enough to
remove in branch_8x?
Le ven. 30 oct. 2020 à 18:33, Ishan Chattopadhyaya <
ichattopadhyaya@gmail.com> a écrit :
> +1 to removing it (in 8.7 with a respin, if needed). If we can't support
> it, there's no need to keep it. If someone wants, they can assume ownership
> of a third party package. +1 to removing all non essential code and
> trimming down the Solr distribution. There's no good reason for Solr, which
> is in effect just a distributed layer on top of Lucene, to be a 200MB
> download.
>
> On Fri, 30 Oct, 2020, 9:50 pm Uwe Schindler, <uw...@thetaphi.de> wrote:
>
>> I fully agree with Erick,
>>
>> Please don't start and try to get 8.x on Java 11. Release Lucene/Solr 9!
>>
>> Uwe
>>
>> -----
>> Uwe Schindler
>> Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen
>> https://www.thetaphi.de
>> eMail: uwe@thetaphi.de
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>
>> > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 3:39 PM
>> > To: dev@lucene.apache.org
>> > Subject: Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
>> >
>> > I’m always reluctant to change something like this for a point release.
>> >
>> > I’ve been supposing that we’d release Solr 9 for a while, I always
>> thought
>> > that moving to Java 11 would be a driver for the 9.0 release but I
>> wasn’t
>> > correct in that.
>> >
>> > That expectation has been complicated by the whole reference impl thing.
>> >
>> > What I’d suggest is that we push forward with a 9.0 release and consider
>> > it something of a placeholder while the reference impl either becomes
>> > our main line or doesn’t. Then your problem disappears ;).
>> Unfortunately,
>> > a new major release always takes some time.
>> >
>> > FWIW,
>> > Erick
>> >
>> > > On Oct 30, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I've run into this in SOLR-14974. The dependency is on Java 11.
>> > > Everything works if you build and run under Java 11 but of course it
>> > > won't fly on Java 8 (won't even compile).
>> > >
>> > > I wonder what are your thoughts on keeping Java 8 as the minimum for
>> > > Solr 8x. Is 8.x going to be on Java 8 forever? Or is minimum of Java
>> > > 11 a possibility, only nobody got to it yet?
>> > >
>> > > Dawid
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>>
>>
Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
Posted by Ishan Chattopadhyaya <ic...@gmail.com>.
+1 to removing it (in 8.7 with a respin, if needed). If we can't support
it, there's no need to keep it. If someone wants, they can assume ownership
of a third party package. +1 to removing all non essential code and
trimming down the Solr distribution. There's no good reason for Solr, which
is in effect just a distributed layer on top of Lucene, to be a 200MB
download.
On Fri, 30 Oct, 2020, 9:50 pm Uwe Schindler, <uw...@thetaphi.de> wrote:
> I fully agree with Erick,
>
> Please don't start and try to get 8.x on Java 11. Release Lucene/Solr 9!
>
> Uwe
>
> -----
> Uwe Schindler
> Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen
> https://www.thetaphi.de
> eMail: uwe@thetaphi.de
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 3:39 PM
> > To: dev@lucene.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
> >
> > I’m always reluctant to change something like this for a point release.
> >
> > I’ve been supposing that we’d release Solr 9 for a while, I always
> thought
> > that moving to Java 11 would be a driver for the 9.0 release but I wasn’t
> > correct in that.
> >
> > That expectation has been complicated by the whole reference impl thing.
> >
> > What I’d suggest is that we push forward with a 9.0 release and consider
> > it something of a placeholder while the reference impl either becomes
> > our main line or doesn’t. Then your problem disappears ;). Unfortunately,
> > a new major release always takes some time.
> >
> > FWIW,
> > Erick
> >
> > > On Oct 30, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I've run into this in SOLR-14974. The dependency is on Java 11.
> > > Everything works if you build and run under Java 11 but of course it
> > > won't fly on Java 8 (won't even compile).
> > >
> > > I wonder what are your thoughts on keeping Java 8 as the minimum for
> > > Solr 8x. Is 8.x going to be on Java 8 forever? Or is minimum of Java
> > > 11 a possibility, only nobody got to it yet?
> > >
> > > Dawid
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
>
RE: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
Posted by Uwe Schindler <uw...@thetaphi.de>.
I fully agree with Erick,
Please don't start and try to get 8.x on Java 11. Release Lucene/Solr 9!
Uwe
-----
Uwe Schindler
Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremen
https://www.thetaphi.de
eMail: uwe@thetaphi.de
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 3:39 PM
> To: dev@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
>
> I’m always reluctant to change something like this for a point release.
>
> I’ve been supposing that we’d release Solr 9 for a while, I always thought
> that moving to Java 11 would be a driver for the 9.0 release but I wasn’t
> correct in that.
>
> That expectation has been complicated by the whole reference impl thing.
>
> What I’d suggest is that we push forward with a 9.0 release and consider
> it something of a placeholder while the reference impl either becomes
> our main line or doesn’t. Then your problem disappears ;). Unfortunately,
> a new major release always takes some time.
>
> FWIW,
> Erick
>
> > On Oct 30, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I've run into this in SOLR-14974. The dependency is on Java 11.
> > Everything works if you build and run under Java 11 but of course it
> > won't fly on Java 8 (won't even compile).
> >
> > I wonder what are your thoughts on keeping Java 8 as the minimum for
> > Solr 8x. Is 8.x going to be on Java 8 forever? Or is minimum of Java
> > 11 a possibility, only nobody got to it yet?
> >
> > Dawid
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
> >
>
>
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Solr 8.x and contribs requiring Java 11
Posted by Erick Erickson <er...@gmail.com>.
I’m always reluctant to change something like this for a point release.
I’ve been supposing that we’d release Solr 9 for a while, I always thought
that moving to Java 11 would be a driver for the 9.0 release but I wasn’t
correct in that.
That expectation has been complicated by the whole reference impl thing.
What I’d suggest is that we push forward with a 9.0 release and consider
it something of a placeholder while the reference impl either becomes
our main line or doesn’t. Then your problem disappears ;). Unfortunately,
a new major release always takes some time.
FWIW,
Erick
> On Oct 30, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Dawid Weiss <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've run into this in SOLR-14974. The dependency is on Java 11.
> Everything works if you build and run under Java 11 but of course it
> won't fly on Java 8 (won't even compile).
>
> I wonder what are your thoughts on keeping Java 8 as the minimum for
> Solr 8x. Is 8.x going to be on Java 8 forever? Or is minimum of Java
> 11 a possibility, only nobody got to it yet?
>
> Dawid
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lucene.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lucene.apache.org
>
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