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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Jeremy Quinn <je...@media.demon.co.uk> on 2000/05/12 13:00:55 UTC
Replicate v Centralise [was Re: sql tag-library]
On 10/5/00 at 8:08 pm, balld@webslingerZ.com (Donald Ball) wrote:
>The whole situation seems to boil down to one essential tradeoff. You
>either replicate data or centralize data. Replication means you have to
>change n files when you want to change the data. Centralization means you
>have to change n files when you want to change the location of the data.
>Hopefully you move the data less frequently than you change it, so
>centralization is generally a win, especially if you choose the location
>carefully from the beginning.
Hear Hear!
This reminds me of a gritty problem I have been trying to get my head around from the beginning (of me using this stuff).
I tend to build sites that have "pages" that interlink, heavily.
The interlinking may be defining the heirarchal structure of the site and it's information, or arbitary contextual x-relationships between information.
eg. see: <http://www.kettlesyard.co.uk/noise/>
For example:
Let's say I have this XML file, that apart from it's own content, contains links to other XML files, defined by the author.
When these links are rendered to HTML via XSL, they want to be META'd up with information from the linked-to file, eg. Author, Description, Title, Context etc., to give the user a clue as to what they are going to get and why, if they click that link.
This (very important to me and my clients) META info about each link, causes the same problem of Replicate v Centralise as pointed out by Donald's remarks above.
If I Replicate the Meta Info, I optimise rendering speed, but complicate site management, if I Centralise, each link in my file requires the extraction of Meta info from each linked-to file, simplifying management but slowing down rendering.
This leaves me in a dilemma ...
To my thinking, Replication is a very nasty thing, however, any site will be viewed more often than edited, so consequentially the site should be optimised for viewing and the editing code should be smart enough to cope with replicated information, but, this will not scale well! Imagine having to search the whole contents of your site to change the Title of a link!?!
There are many other subtle problems around this issue, but I won't go on about it now ....
Surfice to say, way back, when we were initially discussing the concept of the SiteMap, I had a very different idea of what it should be ... a mapping of the contextual relationships between files, providing a centralised repository of link relationships and link Meta info for the renderer to access as a single parse.
I like the SiteMap as it is, but I would like us to think about a LinkMap (?) too!
I would be very interested in hearing other people's take on this issue.
regards Jeremy
____________________________________________________________________
Jeremy Quinn media.demon
webSpace Design
<ma...@media.demon.co.uk> <http://www.media.demon.co.uk>
<phone:+44.[0].207.737.6831> <pa...@sms.genie.co.uk>
Re: OT: Knock-them-off-their-feet demo
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@infoplanning.com>.
Show the same demo with a different stylesheet. It may seem simple, but if
the app works the same regardless of what it looks like, then that is Cocoon's
selling point is. It demonstrates the power of what separation of content,
logic, and look will afford you. It proves that with better architecture the
cost of maintenance goes down. It also proves that if there graphic artists have
too much caffiene one night, it won't kill the site.
Matthew Langham wrote:
> I am to demonstrate the power of cocoon to management on Thursday and have
> knocked up a solution which shows how to grab data from an internal SQL
> database and serve up either HTML, WML or PDF depending on browser and
> selection.
>
> Now I am looking for the "and wait until I show you this" bit to end the
> demonstration with. Any good ideas floating around which would leave them
> going "yeah - maybe he's onto something..."? :-)
>
> Matthew
>
> --
> =================================================================
> Matthew Langham, S&N AG, Klingenderstrasse 5, D-33100 Paderborn
> Tel: +49-5251-1581-30 [mlangham@sundn.de - http://www.sundn.de]
> =================================================================
>
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Re: SQLProcessor and Access
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@infoplanning.com>.
The ODBC Driver for Access is crap. Keep in mind that for *that* driver,
all strings MUST be surrounded by single quotes (and those are escaped by
adding another right next to it), and the errors it returns NEVER represent
what the correct error is. This is a problem with the ODBC driver itself.
I used the JdbcOdbcDriver with Informix, and things went alot smoother.
PS-If you are ever planning to move to another database, it is probably better
to design against that database. We did a project where the original design
was around access, and when we ported to Informix, we had to update 1000
queries over the space of three weeks.
Matthew Langham wrote:
> After succeeding in connecting to MS SQL-Server (thanks to your help) - I
> now want to access MS Access.
>
> I receive the following message when trying to access a table in an MS
> Access database via the JDBC:ODBC bridge. Any ideas what is causing this?
>
> <sqlerror message="DOM002 Illegal character"></sqlerror>
>
> It happens regardless of the table (I have several) and they seem to be
> "normal".
>
> Matthew
>
> --
> =================================================================
> Matthew Langham, S&N AG, Klingenderstrasse 5, D-33100 Paderborn
> Tel: +49-5251-1581-30 [mlangham@sundn.de - http://www.sundn.de]
> =================================================================
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-users-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
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SQLProcessor and Access
Posted by Matthew Langham <ml...@sundn.de>.
After succeeding in connecting to MS SQL-Server (thanks to your help) - I
now want to access MS Access.
I receive the following message when trying to access a table in an MS
Access database via the JDBC:ODBC bridge. Any ideas what is causing this?
<sqlerror message="DOM002 Illegal character"></sqlerror>
It happens regardless of the table (I have several) and they seem to be
"normal".
Matthew
--
=================================================================
Matthew Langham, S&N AG, Klingenderstrasse 5, D-33100 Paderborn
Tel: +49-5251-1581-30 [mlangham@sundn.de - http://www.sundn.de]
=================================================================
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Re: OT: Knock-them-off-their-feet demo
Posted by Donald Ball <ba...@webslingerZ.com>.
On Mon, 15 May 2000, Matthew Langham wrote:
> I am to demonstrate the power of cocoon to management on Thursday and have
> knocked up a solution which shows how to grab data from an internal SQL
> database and serve up either HTML, WML or PDF depending on browser and
> selection.
>
> Now I am looking for the "and wait until I show you this" bit to end the
> demonstration with. Any good ideas floating around which would leave them
> going "yeah - maybe he's onto something..."? :-)
VoxML. When stefano pulled that out of his hat at Apachecon, he got a
spontaneous ovation. It was pretty kick ass.
- donald
OT: Knock-them-off-their-feet demo
Posted by Matthew Langham <ml...@sundn.de>.
I am to demonstrate the power of cocoon to management on Thursday and have
knocked up a solution which shows how to grab data from an internal SQL
database and serve up either HTML, WML or PDF depending on browser and
selection.
Now I am looking for the "and wait until I show you this" bit to end the
demonstration with. Any good ideas floating around which would leave them
going "yeah - maybe he's onto something..."? :-)
Matthew
--
=================================================================
Matthew Langham, S&N AG, Klingenderstrasse 5, D-33100 Paderborn
Tel: +49-5251-1581-30 [mlangham@sundn.de - http://www.sundn.de]
=================================================================
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...this mail was scanned for viruses by mailserver...
Re: SQLProcessor MS SQL Server
Posted by Ulrich Mayring <ul...@denic.de>.
Matthew Langham wrote:
>
> Apart from that - is it possible to have multiple SQL queries in the same
> XML file using the same connection? How do you do that?
<firstquery>
<query null-indicator="yes" connection="foo_connection">
...
</query>
</firstquery>
<secondquery>
<query null-indicator="yes" connection="foo_connection">
...
</query>
</secondquery>
In your stylesheet you define two different templates for firstquery and
secondquery and done.
Ulrich
--
Ulrich Mayring
DENIC eG, Systementwicklung
Re: SQLProcessor MS SQL Server
Posted by Donald Ball <ba...@webslingerZ.com>.
On Fri, 12 May 2000, Matthew Langham wrote:
> I cant seem to access the apache site - so I cant check the docs and
> archive.
>
> Has anyone got SQLProcessor to work against MS SQL-Server 6.5 using a JDBC
> driver (not ODBC)? - What are you using? I have got the FreeTDS driver and
> keep getting an error on select : "This method should only be used when
> auto commit has
> been disabled."
>
> Apart from that - is it possible to have multiple SQL queries in the same
> XML file using the same connection? How do you do that?
Just do it. Have more than one connection element. Ta-da!
- donald
SQLProcessor MS SQL Server
Posted by Matthew Langham <ml...@sundn.de>.
I cant seem to access the apache site - so I cant check the docs and
archive.
Has anyone got SQLProcessor to work against MS SQL-Server 6.5 using a JDBC
driver (not ODBC)? - What are you using? I have got the FreeTDS driver and
keep getting an error on select : "This method should only be used when
auto commit has
been disabled."
Apart from that - is it possible to have multiple SQL queries in the same
XML file using the same connection? How do you do that?
Again - sorry - its probably all in the archive...
Matthew
--
=================================================================
Matthew Langham, S&N AG, Klingenderstrasse 5, D-33100 Paderborn
Tel: +49-5251-1581-30 [mlangham@sundn.de - http://www.sundn.de]
=================================================================
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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