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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu> on 2003/06/05 15:39:42 UTC
[VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
I'm not sure if I have enough rights yet to nominate Phil Steitz for
commiter (I just became a commiter myself). Phil is the initial proposal
author on the math project. That in and of itself should be enough to
warrant his inclusion. Phil has been supplying many patches and is now
considering development of the "complex number" architecture for the
package. I think he would make an excellent commiter as he has done a
great deal of work via patches to clarify the coding, testing and
documentation standards for the math project. We *need* him to have
commit rights on this project before we can make it to release.
+1
Mark Diggory
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Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Posted by Juozas Baliuka <ba...@centras.lt>.
+1
This project needs more developers, I can not help at this time and Phil
can do more as commiter.
> I'm not sure if I have enough rights yet to nominate Phil Steitz for
> commiter (I just became a commiter myself). Phil is the initial proposal
> author on the math project. That in and of itself should be enough to
> warrant his inclusion. Phil has been supplying many patches and is now
> considering development of the "complex number" architecture for the
> package. I think he would make an excellent commiter as he has done a
> great deal of work via patches to clarify the coding, testing and
> documentation standards for the math project. We *need* him to have
> commit rights on this project before we can make it to release.
>
> +1
>
> Mark Diggory
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [math] Commons Proper
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Mark,
On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:18:47 -0400
(Subject: [math] Commons Proper (was: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz))
"Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu> wrote:
> I suspect this would be the path to be taken in the near future.
Yeah, sooner or later things will all come right , I believe.
Furthermore, (this is just my premonition in good meanings)
I think [math]-developers' ml will be seperated from the commons-dev,
like commons-httpclient-dev in the near future.
> I think we are getting close, Robert is right, "patience", we will get
> there. But, being mathematicians tend to be perfectionists, I'm not sure
> all of us feel [math] is ready for Commons proper just yet. I'm sure
> others have varying opinions on the matter.
O.K. Hope to be promoted soon.
(before the half of the commons-dev subscribers would be fed up with
[math], [math], [math] ... mails ;-)
> All good statisticians recognize variability exists in all populations
> ;-)
I majored in Law in my college days, so I am not a statistician maybe ;-),
but what you said is very understandable.
Statistics will show that the developers, engineers are tend to
be interested and have much concerns in mathematical issues,
in general ;-) ..
# Therefore, this means that the [math] projects will attracts engineers
# and developers more.
Hope to continue to produce good products and to hurry up preparing
the release.
Sincerely,
Tetsuya
-----------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
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Re: [math] Commons Proper
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@steitz.com>.
Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> Yes, is it possible someone can "rank" the task list, this way I can
> possibly start to focus some of my own dev on some more neccessary tasks?
I will post a proposed ranking later today, as well as a *proposal* for
scope of initial release.
Phil
>
> -M.
>
> Phil Steitz wrote:
>
>>
>> I certainly don't feel like we are ready for a release at this time --
>> and believe me, I am no perfectionist. My understanding is that you
>> don't come out of the sandbox until you are ready to release
>> something. I think that it is best for us to spend our time getting
>> things on the task list completed, deciding what we want to include in
>> a release and doing the work to get there.
>>
>> Phil
>>
> > Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Tetsuya,
> >>
> >> I suspect this would be the path to be taken in the near future.
> >>
> >> I think we are getting close, Robert is right, "patience", we will get
> >> there. But, being mathematicians tend to be perfectionists, I'm not
> >> sure all of us feel [math] is ready for Commons proper just yet. I'm
> >> sure others have varying opinions on the matter. All good
> >> statisticians recognize variability exists in all populations ;-)
> >>
>
>>> -Mark
>>>
>>> Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello, Robert and Mark, All.
>>>>
>>>> I think (IMHO) math project is worthy to become, be promoted to
>>>> commons-proper. There are many commons-proper
>>>> projects which apparently are at standstill in their activities.
>>>> In this situation, Phil and math project seem very active
>>>> and deserve to be notified more widely and openly.
>>>>
>>>> To avoid the apprehensions such as Robert worried,
>>>> IMHO,
>>>> 1. Vote for promotion of the sandbox-math to commons-proper
>>>> 2. Next to #1, nominate, [VOTE] Phil as a committer
>>>> or
>>>> 3. #1 and #2 simultaneously
>>>>
>>>> These above might be fair and good way for the things go well.
>>>>
>>>> I'd love to use the math-product as one of the users eagerly.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Tetsuya
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:30:05 +0100
>>>> (Subject: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
>>>> robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the
>>>>> qualities required and i'd support a nomination when and if math
>>>>> makes it into the commons proper) but i think that nominating
>>>>> people for contributions to the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner
>>>>> or later) and also that it's against the spirit of the common charter.
>>>>>
>>>>> as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the
>>>>> sandbox,
>>>>> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right
>>>>> and exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i
>>>>> believe that the commons can and should only elect committers for
>>>>> its own components.
>>>>>
>>>>> i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination
>>>>> (that we need him on board to make it to release) is not a good
>>>>> one. we in the commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the
>>>>> sandbox. if there is insufficient energy to push a component
>>>>> forwards then there will be insufficient energy to properly
>>>>> supervise new committers. i'd like to ask the math developers for a
>>>>> little patience. i'm convinced that commons-math has a bright
>>>>> future but it will take a little time. i also hope that phil
>>>>> doesn't take this personally (this isn't anything against him
>>>>> personally but against the principle of nominating new non-apache
>>>>> committers for sandbox components).
>>>>>
>>>>> -1
>>>>>
>>>>> - robert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>>> Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
>>>> E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
>>>> http://www.terra-intl.com/
>>>> (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
>>>> http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [math] Commons Proper
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Yes, is it possible someone can "rank" the task list, this way I can
possibly start to focus some of my own dev on some more neccessary tasks?
-M.
Phil Steitz wrote:
>
> I certainly don't feel like we are ready for a release at this time --
> and believe me, I am no perfectionist. My understanding is that you
> don't come out of the sandbox until you are ready to release something.
> I think that it is best for us to spend our time getting things on the
> task list completed, deciding what we want to include in a release and
> doing the work to get there.
>
> Phil
>
> Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>
>> Thanks Tetsuya,
>>
>> I suspect this would be the path to be taken in the near future.
>>
>> I think we are getting close, Robert is right, "patience", we will get
>> there. But, being mathematicians tend to be perfectionists, I'm not
>> sure all of us feel [math] is ready for Commons proper just yet. I'm
>> sure others have varying opinions on the matter. All good
>> statisticians recognize variability exists in all populations ;-)
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>> Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, Robert and Mark, All.
>>>
>>> I think (IMHO) math project is worthy to become, be promoted to
>>> commons-proper. There are many commons-proper
>>> projects which apparently are at standstill in their activities.
>>> In this situation, Phil and math project seem very active
>>> and deserve to be notified more widely and openly.
>>>
>>> To avoid the apprehensions such as Robert worried,
>>> IMHO,
>>> 1. Vote for promotion of the sandbox-math to commons-proper
>>> 2. Next to #1, nominate, [VOTE] Phil as a committer
>>> or
>>> 3. #1 and #2 simultaneously
>>>
>>> These above might be fair and good way for the things go well.
>>>
>>> I'd love to use the math-product as one of the users eagerly.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Tetsuya
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:30:05 +0100
>>> (Subject: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
>>> robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the
>>>> qualities required and i'd support a nomination when and if math
>>>> makes it into the commons proper) but i think that nominating people
>>>> for contributions to the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or
>>>> later) and also that it's against the spirit of the common charter.
>>>>
>>>> as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the
>>>> sandbox,
>>>> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
>>>> exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe
>>>> that the commons can and should only elect committers for its own
>>>> components.
>>>>
>>>> i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination
>>>> (that we need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one.
>>>> we in the commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the
>>>> sandbox. if there is insufficient energy to push a component
>>>> forwards then there will be insufficient energy to properly
>>>> supervise new committers. i'd like to ask the math developers for a
>>>> little patience. i'm convinced that commons-math has a bright future
>>>> but it will take a little time. i also hope that phil doesn't take
>>>> this personally (this isn't anything against him personally but
>>>> against the principle of nominating new non-apache committers for
>>>> sandbox components).
>>>>
>>>> -1
>>>>
>>>> - robert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>> Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
>>> E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
>>> http://www.terra-intl.com/
>>> (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
>>> http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [math] Commons Proper (was: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@steitz.com>.
Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> Thanks Tetsuya,
>
> I suspect this would be the path to be taken in the near future.
>
> I think we are getting close, Robert is right, "patience", we will get
> there. But, being mathematicians tend to be perfectionists, I'm not sure
> all of us feel [math] is ready for Commons proper just yet. I'm sure
> others have varying opinions on the matter. All good statisticians
> recognize variability exists in all populations ;-)
>
I certainly don't feel like we are ready for a release at this time --
and believe me, I am no perfectionist. My understanding is that you
don't come out of the sandbox until you are ready to release something.
I think that it is best for us to spend our time getting things on the
task list completed, deciding what we want to include in a release and
doing the work to get there.
Phil
> -Mark
>
> Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
>> Hello, Robert and Mark, All.
>>
>> I think (IMHO) math project is worthy to become, be promoted to
>> commons-proper. There are many commons-proper
>> projects which apparently are at standstill in their activities.
>> In this situation, Phil and math project seem very active
>> and deserve to be notified more widely and openly.
>>
>> To avoid the apprehensions such as Robert worried,
>> IMHO,
>> 1. Vote for promotion of the sandbox-math to commons-proper
>> 2. Next to #1, nominate, [VOTE] Phil as a committer
>> or
>> 3. #1 and #2 simultaneously
>>
>> These above might be fair and good way for the things go well.
>>
>> I'd love to use the math-product as one of the users eagerly.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Tetsuya
>>
>> --
>>
>> On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:30:05 +0100
>> (Subject: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
>> robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the
>>> qualities required and i'd support a nomination when and if math
>>> makes it into the commons proper) but i think that nominating people
>>> for contributions to the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or
>>> later) and also that it's against the spirit of the common charter.
>>>
>>> as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the
>>> sandbox,
>>> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
>>> exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that
>>> the commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
>>>
>>> i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination
>>> (that we need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one.
>>> we in the commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the
>>> sandbox. if there is insufficient energy to push a component forwards
>>> then there will be insufficient energy to properly supervise new
>>> committers. i'd like to ask the math developers for a little
>>> patience. i'm convinced that commons-math has a bright future but it
>>> will take a little time. i also hope that phil doesn't take this
>>> personally (this isn't anything against him personally but against
>>> the principle of nominating new non-apache committers for sandbox
>>> components).
>>>
>>> -1
>>>
>>> - robert
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>> Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
>> E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
>> http://www.terra-intl.com/
>> (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
>> http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
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Re: [math] Commons Proper
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
I'm starting to use it in my sourceforge project
(http://repast-jellytag.sourceforge.net) for gathering descriptive stats
on simulations. That makes me a user.
I'm also planning a small jelly taglibrary to expose some interesting
capabilities for stats in Jelly.
-Mark
Juozas Baliuka wrote:
> Project must have community to be promoted. Component developed in sandbox
> have a risk to die without users community. I think it needs a few months
> to live in sandbox to prove the community is active (or die in sandbox, not
> in commons proper).
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>
> To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 3:18 PM
> Subject: [math] Commons Proper (was: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
>
>
>
>>Thanks Tetsuya,
>>
>>I suspect this would be the path to be taken in the near future.
>>
>>I think we are getting close, Robert is right, "patience", we will get
>>there. But, being mathematicians tend to be perfectionists, I'm not sure
>>all of us feel [math] is ready for Commons proper just yet. I'm sure
>>others have varying opinions on the matter. All good statisticians
>>recognize variability exists in all populations ;-)
>>
>>-Mark
>>
>>Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>>
>>>Hello, Robert and Mark, All.
>>>
>>>I think (IMHO) math project is worthy to become, be promoted to
>>>commons-proper. There are many commons-proper
>>>projects which apparently are at standstill in their activities.
>>>In this situation, Phil and math project seem very active
>>>and deserve to be notified more widely and openly.
>>>
>>>To avoid the apprehensions such as Robert worried,
>>>IMHO,
>>>1. Vote for promotion of the sandbox-math to commons-proper
>>>2. Next to #1, nominate, [VOTE] Phil as a committer
>>>or
>>>3. #1 and #2 simultaneously
>>>
>>>These above might be fair and good way for the things go well.
>>>
>>>I'd love to use the math-product as one of the users eagerly.
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>
>>>Tetsuya
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:30:05 +0100
>>>(Subject: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
>>>robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the qualities
>>>>required and i'd support a nomination when and if math makes it into the
>>>>commons proper) but i think that nominating people for contributions to
>>>>the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or later) and also that it's
>>>>against the spirit of the common charter.
>>>>
>>>>as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the
>
> sandbox,
>
>>>> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
>>>>exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that
>
> the
>
>>>>commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
>>>>
>>>>i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination (that
>
> we
>
>>>>need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one. we in the
>>>>commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the sandbox. if there is
>>>>insufficient energy to push a component forwards then there will be
>>>>insufficient energy to properly supervise new committers. i'd like to
>
> ask
>
>>>>the math developers for a little patience. i'm convinced that
>
> commons-math
>
>>>>has a bright future but it will take a little time. i also hope that
>
> phil
>
>>>>doesn't take this personally (this isn't anything against him personally
>>>>but against the principle of nominating new non-apache committers for
>>>>sandbox components).
>>>>
>>>>-1
>>>>
>>>>- robert
>>>
>>>
>>>-----------------------------------------------------
>>>Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
>>>E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
>>>http://www.terra-intl.com/
>>>(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
>>>http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [math] Commons Proper (was: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
Posted by Juozas Baliuka <ba...@mwm.lt>.
Project must have community to be promoted. Component developed in sandbox
have a risk to die without users community. I think it needs a few months
to live in sandbox to prove the community is active (or die in sandbox, not
in commons proper).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>
To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 3:18 PM
Subject: [math] Commons Proper (was: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
> Thanks Tetsuya,
>
> I suspect this would be the path to be taken in the near future.
>
> I think we are getting close, Robert is right, "patience", we will get
> there. But, being mathematicians tend to be perfectionists, I'm not sure
> all of us feel [math] is ready for Commons proper just yet. I'm sure
> others have varying opinions on the matter. All good statisticians
> recognize variability exists in all populations ;-)
>
> -Mark
>
> Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
> > Hello, Robert and Mark, All.
> >
> > I think (IMHO) math project is worthy to become, be promoted to
> > commons-proper. There are many commons-proper
> > projects which apparently are at standstill in their activities.
> > In this situation, Phil and math project seem very active
> > and deserve to be notified more widely and openly.
> >
> > To avoid the apprehensions such as Robert worried,
> > IMHO,
> > 1. Vote for promotion of the sandbox-math to commons-proper
> > 2. Next to #1, nominate, [VOTE] Phil as a committer
> > or
> > 3. #1 and #2 simultaneously
> >
> > These above might be fair and good way for the things go well.
> >
> > I'd love to use the math-product as one of the users eagerly.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Tetsuya
> >
> > --
> >
> > On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:30:05 +0100
> > (Subject: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
> > robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the qualities
> >>required and i'd support a nomination when and if math makes it into the
> >>commons proper) but i think that nominating people for contributions to
> >>the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or later) and also that it's
> >>against the spirit of the common charter.
> >>
> >>as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the
sandbox,
> >> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
> >>exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that
the
> >>commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
> >>
> >>i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination (that
we
> >>need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one. we in the
> >>commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the sandbox. if there is
> >>insufficient energy to push a component forwards then there will be
> >>insufficient energy to properly supervise new committers. i'd like to
ask
> >>the math developers for a little patience. i'm convinced that
commons-math
> >>has a bright future but it will take a little time. i also hope that
phil
> >>doesn't take this personally (this isn't anything against him personally
> >>but against the principle of nominating new non-apache committers for
> >>sandbox components).
> >>
> >>-1
> >>
> >>- robert
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> > Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
> > E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
> > http://www.terra-intl.com/
> > (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
> > http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
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[math] Commons Proper (was: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Thanks Tetsuya,
I suspect this would be the path to be taken in the near future.
I think we are getting close, Robert is right, "patience", we will get
there. But, being mathematicians tend to be perfectionists, I'm not sure
all of us feel [math] is ready for Commons proper just yet. I'm sure
others have varying opinions on the matter. All good statisticians
recognize variability exists in all populations ;-)
-Mark
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
> Hello, Robert and Mark, All.
>
> I think (IMHO) math project is worthy to become, be promoted to
> commons-proper. There are many commons-proper
> projects which apparently are at standstill in their activities.
> In this situation, Phil and math project seem very active
> and deserve to be notified more widely and openly.
>
> To avoid the apprehensions such as Robert worried,
> IMHO,
> 1. Vote for promotion of the sandbox-math to commons-proper
> 2. Next to #1, nominate, [VOTE] Phil as a committer
> or
> 3. #1 and #2 simultaneously
>
> These above might be fair and good way for the things go well.
>
> I'd love to use the math-product as one of the users eagerly.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Tetsuya
>
> --
>
> On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:30:05 +0100
> (Subject: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
> robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the qualities
>>required and i'd support a nomination when and if math makes it into the
>>commons proper) but i think that nominating people for contributions to
>>the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or later) and also that it's
>>against the spirit of the common charter.
>>
>>as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the sandbox,
>> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
>>exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that the
>>commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
>>
>>i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination (that we
>>need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one. we in the
>>commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the sandbox. if there is
>>insufficient energy to push a component forwards then there will be
>>insufficient energy to properly supervise new committers. i'd like to ask
>>the math developers for a little patience. i'm convinced that commons-math
>>has a bright future but it will take a little time. i also hope that phil
>>doesn't take this personally (this isn't anything against him personally
>>but against the principle of nominating new non-apache committers for
>>sandbox components).
>>
>>-1
>>
>>- robert
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
> E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
> http://www.terra-intl.com/
> (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
> http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Hello, Robert and Mark, All.
I think (IMHO) math project is worthy to become, be promoted to
commons-proper. There are many commons-proper
projects which apparently are at standstill in their activities.
In this situation, Phil and math project seem very active
and deserve to be notified more widely and openly.
To avoid the apprehensions such as Robert worried,
IMHO,
1. Vote for promotion of the sandbox-math to commons-proper
2. Next to #1, nominate, [VOTE] Phil as a committer
or
3. #1 and #2 simultaneously
These above might be fair and good way for the things go well.
I'd love to use the math-product as one of the users eagerly.
Sincerely,
Tetsuya
--
On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:30:05 +0100
(Subject: Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the qualities
> required and i'd support a nomination when and if math makes it into the
> commons proper) but i think that nominating people for contributions to
> the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or later) and also that it's
> against the spirit of the common charter.
>
> as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the sandbox,
> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
> exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that the
> commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
>
> i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination (that we
> need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one. we in the
> commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the sandbox. if there is
> insufficient energy to push a component forwards then there will be
> insufficient energy to properly supervise new committers. i'd like to ask
> the math developers for a little patience. i'm convinced that commons-math
> has a bright future but it will take a little time. i also hope that phil
> doesn't take this personally (this isn't anything against him personally
> but against the principle of nominating new non-apache committers for
> sandbox components).
>
> -1
>
> - robert
-----------------------------------------------------
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E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
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Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Well, I've been known to voice strong and often contrary opinions
(probably why I ended up at Harvard, their the only ones who would
tolerate me) ;-). As a Software Developer/Project Manager, I tend to try
to organize things to promote efficiency and fairness.
I certainly do value, understand and respect others view points. I'm
glad to handle patching for the project. If your ok with the current
situation, then thats ok for me as well.
-Mark
Phil Steitz wrote:
> --- "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
>>Robert,
>
>>Finally, To clarify, my specific reasons for nomination concern the fact
>>that a large amount of "energy pushing this component forwards" is
>>coming from Phil, being he initially proposed the project, isn't it
>>unfair to exclude him from being a member of the team that brings it to
>>maturity?
>
>
> Mark,
>
> I really appreciate your support, but this is not necessary. I do not feel in
> any way excluded and while there is a little extra latency in getting things in
> (less since you became a committer ;-)), I don't really feel limited too much
> by the lack of commit rights. Probably better to play by the rules and focus on
> getting a quality release together. Thanks again for your support.
>
> Phil
>
>
>>Long live Jakarta-Commons,
>>Mark Diggory
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________
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Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Posted by Phil Steitz <st...@yahoo.com>.
--- "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu> wrote:
> Robert,
>
>
> Finally, To clarify, my specific reasons for nomination concern the fact
> that a large amount of "energy pushing this component forwards" is
> coming from Phil, being he initially proposed the project, isn't it
> unfair to exclude him from being a member of the team that brings it to
> maturity?
Mark,
I really appreciate your support, but this is not necessary. I do not feel in
any way excluded and while there is a little extra latency in getting things in
(less since you became a committer ;-)), I don't really feel limited too much
by the lack of commit rights. Probably better to play by the rules and focus on
getting a quality release together. Thanks again for your support.
Phil
>
> Long live Jakarta-Commons,
> Mark Diggory
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
All very well and good, (as you advised earlier) I will try to be more
patient on the matter. I'm sure this will resolve in time without
stepping out of bounds.
-M.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> hi mark
>
> it's pretty much the scenario that you describe that concerns me. phil
> has certainly been the most active member of the commons-math
> development team but commons-math was originate by myself. i'm glad to
> say that tim joined and has done most of the spade work (good work,
> tim). it's a credit to the commons-math community that the contribution
> by non-committers has been so great. this points towards a healthy
> future for the component.
>
> there are other avenues in apache available for the development of code
> bases - the incubator project or the commons project where the rules and
> aims are different. but commons-math is in the sandbox and we need to be
> careful about remaining within the bounds set.
>
> - robert
>
> On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 11:35 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>>
>> Your viewpoint is warranted and understandable, the motivation for the
>> sandbox is to provide a means to refactor existing projects/fragments
>> into better designed components, As such its fair to see its activity
>> oriented to existing developers. I know I was voted in for both my
>> interest in the Math component project and the past work I've done
>> with Jelly and HttpClient.
>>
>> But IMHO, this is a unique case that should be reconsidered. Consider
>> the following: a non-commiter reviews a project in the Commons, sees
>> that there are avenues for enhancment or refactoring, and proposes a
>> project to consolidate/enhance those features. This proposal is
>> approved and a new sandbox project is born. Because the one who
>> proposed the project is not already a commiter, their efforts are
>> diminished during the projects initial development. Thus "limiting"
>> the projects productivity and future development.
>>
>> I don't believe math started as an independent project, math is the
>> foster child of the lang project, based on decisions about enhancing
>> and giving a home to the math features that are present there. As
>> such, there is a grey area here. As Phil's basis for proposing was on
>> code in [lang]
>> it possibly seems the responsibility for nominating commit rights
>> falls on the shoulders of that original commons component [lang]. This
>> is based on the discussions about placing math tools in lang that gave
>> rise to the sandbox math development.
>>
>> Finally, To clarify, my specific reasons for nomination concern the
>> fact that a large amount of "energy pushing this component forwards"
>> is coming from Phil, being he initially proposed the project, isn't it
>> unfair to exclude him from being a member of the team that brings it
>> to maturity?
>>
>> Long live Jakarta-Commons,
>> Mark Diggory
>>
>>
>> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>>
>>> i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the
>>> qualities required and i'd support a nomination when and if math
>>> makes it into the commons proper) but i think that nominating people
>>> for contributions to the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or
>>> later) and also that it's against the spirit of the common charter.
>>> as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the
>>> sandbox,
>>> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
>>> exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that
>>> the commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
>>>
>>> i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination
>>> (that we need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one.
>>> we in the commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the
>>> sandbox. if there is insufficient energy to push a component forwards
>>> then there will be insufficient energy to properly supervise new
>>> committers.
>>
>>
>>> i'd like to ask the math developers for a little patience. i'm
>>> convinced that commons-math has a bright future but it will take a
>>> little time. i also hope that phil doesn't take this personally (this
>>> isn't anything against him personally but against the principle of
>>> nominating new non-apache committers for sandbox components).
>>> -1
>>> - robert
>>> On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 02:39 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure if I have enough rights yet to nominate Phil Steitz for
>>>> commiter (I just became a commiter myself). Phil is the initial
>>>> proposal author on the math project. That in and of itself should be
>>>> enough to warrant his inclusion. Phil has been supplying many
>>>> patches and is now considering development of the "complex number"
>>>> architecture for the package. I think he would make an excellent
>>>> commiter as he has done a great deal of work via patches to clarify
>>>> the coding, testing and documentation standards for the math
>>>> project. We *need* him to have commit rights on this project before
>>>> we can make it to release.
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Mark Diggory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [MATH] Re: Incubator (Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:15:32 -0400
(Subject: Re: [MATH] Re: Incubator (Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz))
"Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu> wrote:
> I guess my concern is that [math] is primarily being built by individual
> contributors and not one specific group, its not one big code donation,
> Which is what I took the Incubator charter to mean by
>
> "the Apache Incubator PMC be and hereby is responsible for the
> acceptance and oversight of new products submitted or proposed to become
> part of the Foundation".
>
> Am I right/wrong?
This is my interpretation, so please do not take it as an Incubator
Project PMC's one.
-- Apache Incubator welcomes the projects which are already decided
-- their destinations. In "Math"'s case, it is destined to go back
-- to commons, so we can accept.
-- Incubator Project might have two posibillities.
-- 1. Donation from other communities (sourceforge, etc.), and
-- which have to be molded to be fit to ASF's licenses, voting
-- rules, etc.
-- 2. Apache Projects to be molded more to form healthy community
-- As for <1>, Tapestry and Lenya were the cases. (Tapestry went
-- to the top of jakarta, Lenya went under the Cocoon project, finally)
-- As for <2>, current "FTPServer" and "AltRMI" are the cases
-- [Math] could have the possiblities of <2> not <1>.
I am not sure the history of "FTPServer" and "AltRMI", so
maybe I am wrong.
(I've heard the "Tapestry", "Lenya"'s cases already)
> thanks for the "cross pollination",
I am still wondering that "math" might have come to get more
NEEDs not only as "small scalable components" but also as "endurable
for commercial use, complexed components, alike to commercial products".
The latter case, there might be a possibilities that "jakarta-maths and
jakarta-commons-math" co-exist...(Also, the community, developers might
be the same) I am not sure my intuition would be realistic or not.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
-----------------------------------------------------
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E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
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Re: [MATH] Re: Incubator (Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
Posted by Tim O'Brien <to...@discursive.com>.
-1,
as initially proposed commons-math satisfies the commons charter.
On Wed, 2003-06-11 at 06:15, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
> >>Tim,
> >>
> >>On 10 Jun 2003 16:17:11 -0500
> >>"Tim O'Brien" <to...@discursive.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>If we wanted to say.... move commons-math to the incubator, then I think
> >>>it would be easier to expand the community, but that community would be
> >>>external to the existing community here. Keeping commons-math in the
> >>>sandbox increases some of the hurdles, but in the end it will benefit
> >>>the community as a whole.
> >>
> >>I think it is a great idea "commons-sandbox-math to incubator", IMHO.
> >>
> >>Well, now "math" is one of the subprojects in commons-sandbox,
> >>so the community would have come to be small, living in obscurity
> >>and thus not attract the potential developers, as a result.
> >>If move it to Incubator and add link to the project directly
> >>from the top page of jakarta (as I've done a few days ago) properly,
> >>many folks might be attracted as a whole.
> >>Then, when the community in Incubator will have grown up enough,
> >>come back to commons and separate the dev list (like httpclient).
> >>
> >>It might be one of the possibilities, Tim.
> >>(But, maybe you have to consider the re-creation of the whole site
> >>of math, because Incubator folks do like the forrest ;-)
> >>
> >>The fact "most of the code contributions have been driven by
> >>non-committers" showed the possibities these described above.
> >>
> >>Sincerely,
> >>
> >>-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
> Hello Tetsuya,
>
> I guess my concern is that [math] is primarily being built by individual
> contributors and not one specific group, its not one big code donation,
> Which is what I took the Incubator charter to mean by
>
> "the Apache Incubator PMC be and hereby is responsible for the
> acceptance and oversight of new products submitted or proposed to become
> part of the Foundation".
>
> Am I right/wrong?
>
> thanks for the "cross pollination",
> Mark
>
>
>
>
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Re: [MATH] Re: Incubator (Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>>Tim,
>>
>>On 10 Jun 2003 16:17:11 -0500
>>"Tim O'Brien" <to...@discursive.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If we wanted to say.... move commons-math to the incubator, then I think
>>>it would be easier to expand the community, but that community would be
>>>external to the existing community here. Keeping commons-math in the
>>>sandbox increases some of the hurdles, but in the end it will benefit
>>>the community as a whole.
>>
>>I think it is a great idea "commons-sandbox-math to incubator", IMHO.
>>
>>Well, now "math" is one of the subprojects in commons-sandbox,
>>so the community would have come to be small, living in obscurity
>>and thus not attract the potential developers, as a result.
>>If move it to Incubator and add link to the project directly
>>from the top page of jakarta (as I've done a few days ago) properly,
>>many folks might be attracted as a whole.
>>Then, when the community in Incubator will have grown up enough,
>>come back to commons and separate the dev list (like httpclient).
>>
>>It might be one of the possibilities, Tim.
>>(But, maybe you have to consider the re-creation of the whole site
>>of math, because Incubator folks do like the forrest ;-)
>>
>>The fact "most of the code contributions have been driven by
>>non-committers" showed the possibities these described above.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
Hello Tetsuya,
I guess my concern is that [math] is primarily being built by individual
contributors and not one specific group, its not one big code donation,
Which is what I took the Incubator charter to mean by
"the Apache Incubator PMC be and hereby is responsible for the
acceptance and oversight of new products submitted or proposed to become
part of the Foundation".
Am I right/wrong?
thanks for the "cross pollination",
Mark
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[MATH] Re: Incubator (Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Sorry, me too forgotten to put the prefix in the subject...
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:58:29 +0900
(Subject: Incubator (Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz))
Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> On 10 Jun 2003 16:17:11 -0500
> "Tim O'Brien" <to...@discursive.com> wrote:
>
> > If we wanted to say.... move commons-math to the incubator, then I think
> > it would be easier to expand the community, but that community would be
> > external to the existing community here. Keeping commons-math in the
> > sandbox increases some of the hurdles, but in the end it will benefit
> > the community as a whole.
>
> I think it is a great idea "commons-sandbox-math to incubator", IMHO.
>
> Well, now "math" is one of the subprojects in commons-sandbox,
> so the community would have come to be small, living in obscurity
> and thus not attract the potential developers, as a result.
> If move it to Incubator and add link to the project directly
> from the top page of jakarta (as I've done a few days ago) properly,
> many folks might be attracted as a whole.
> Then, when the community in Incubator will have grown up enough,
> come back to commons and separate the dev list (like httpclient).
>
> It might be one of the possibilities, Tim.
> (But, maybe you have to consider the re-creation of the whole site
> of math, because Incubator folks do like the forrest ;-)
>
> The fact "most of the code contributions have been driven by
> non-committers" showed the possibities these described above.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
> E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
> http://www.terra-intl.com/
> (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
> http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
>
>
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E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
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Re: Incubator (Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 06:58 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
<snip>
> The fact "most of the code contributions have been driven by
> non-committers" showed the possibities these described above.
that's actually a good sign :)
projects where this happens have consistently proved more healthy than
those driven by a small number of committers. and as far as publicity goes,
i'm not sure that i could handle any more activity just yet ;)
- robert
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Incubator (Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz)
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Tim,
On 10 Jun 2003 16:17:11 -0500
"Tim O'Brien" <to...@discursive.com> wrote:
> If we wanted to say.... move commons-math to the incubator, then I think
> it would be easier to expand the community, but that community would be
> external to the existing community here. Keeping commons-math in the
> sandbox increases some of the hurdles, but in the end it will benefit
> the community as a whole.
I think it is a great idea "commons-sandbox-math to incubator", IMHO.
Well, now "math" is one of the subprojects in commons-sandbox,
so the community would have come to be small, living in obscurity
and thus not attract the potential developers, as a result.
If move it to Incubator and add link to the project directly
from the top page of jakarta (as I've done a few days ago) properly,
many folks might be attracted as a whole.
Then, when the community in Incubator will have grown up enough,
come back to commons and separate the dev list (like httpclient).
It might be one of the possibilities, Tim.
(But, maybe you have to consider the re-creation of the whole site
of math, because Incubator folks do like the forrest ;-)
The fact "most of the code contributions have been driven by
non-committers" showed the possibities these described above.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
-----------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
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Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Posted by Tim O'Brien <to...@discursive.com>.
On Fri, 2003-06-06 at 01:46, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> .......................................... i'm glad to say that tim joined
> and has done most of the spade work (good work, tim). it's a credit to the
> commons-math community that the contribution by non-committers has been so
> great. this points towards a healthy future for the component.
Thanks, most of the code contributions have been driven by
non-committers, they are the real driving force behind this particular
component. As other non-committers (more qualified that I) are
attracted to the project and become committers, I'll take another step
back. I think it is wise not to rush the process that is used to expand
the community (at least in Jakarta Commons). Scope definition ->
promotion -> release -> +1 for Phil. I eager to get to the end of that
list, but I think it is now a prerequisite.
If we wanted to say.... move commons-math to the incubator, then I think
it would be easier to expand the community, but that community would be
external to the existing community here. Keeping commons-math in the
sandbox increases some of the hurdles, but in the end it will benefit
the community as a whole.
> there are other avenues in apache available for the development of code
> bases - the incubator project or the commons project where the rules and
> aims are different. but commons-math is in the sandbox and we need to be
> careful about remaining within the bounds set.
I agree with Robert here in that commons-math is a Sandbox component and
that we need to be careful to adhere to the rules of the commons
sandbox. ( This is, of course, ironic because I was nominated for
[codec] which, at the time, was a Sandbox component. :-) )
In other words, I think it'll be a race to see who starts Phils' [VOTE]
thread immediately after promotion (if we get to promotion, that is).
>
> - robert
>
> On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 11:35 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>
> > Robert,
> >
> > Your viewpoint is warranted and understandable, the motivation for the
> > sandbox is to provide a means to refactor existing projects/fragments
> > into better designed components, As such its fair to see its activity
> > oriented to existing developers. I know I was voted in for both my
> > interest in the Math component project and the past work I've done with
> > Jelly and HttpClient.
> >
> > But IMHO, this is a unique case that should be reconsidered. Consider the
> > following: a non-commiter reviews a project in the Commons, sees that
> > there are avenues for enhancment or refactoring, and proposes a project
> > to consolidate/enhance those features. This proposal is approved and a
> > new sandbox project is born. Because the one who proposed the project is
> > not already a commiter, their efforts are diminished during the projects
> > initial development. Thus "limiting" the projects productivity and future
> > development.
> >
> > I don't believe math started as an independent project, math is the
> > foster child of the lang project, based on decisions about enhancing and
> > giving a home to the math features that are present there. As such, there
> > is a grey area here. As Phil's basis for proposing was on code in [lang]
> > it possibly seems the responsibility for nominating commit rights falls
> > on the shoulders of that original commons component [lang]. This is based
> > on the discussions about placing math tools in lang that gave rise to the
> > sandbox math development.
> >
> > Finally, To clarify, my specific reasons for nomination concern the fact
> > that a large amount of "energy pushing this component forwards" is coming
> > from Phil, being he initially proposed the project, isn't it unfair to
> > exclude him from being a member of the team that brings it to maturity?
> >
> > Long live Jakarta-Commons,
> > Mark Diggory
> >
> >
> > robert burrell donkin wrote:
> >> i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the qualities
> >> required and i'd support a nomination when and if math makes it into the
> >> commons proper) but i think that nominating people for contributions to
> >> the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or later) and also that it's
> >> against the spirit of the common charter.
> >> as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the
> >> sandbox,
> >> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
> >> exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that
> >> the commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
> >>
> >> i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination (that
> >> we need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one. we in the
> >> commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the sandbox. if there is
> >> insufficient energy to push a component forwards then there will be
> >> insufficient energy to properly supervise new committers.
> >
> >> i'd like to ask the math developers for a little patience. i'm convinced
> >> that commons-math has a bright future but it will take a little time. i
> >> also hope that phil doesn't take this personally (this isn't anything
> >> against him personally but against the principle of nominating new
> >> non-apache committers for sandbox components).
> >> -1
> >> - robert
> >> On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 02:39 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> >>> I'm not sure if I have enough rights yet to nominate Phil Steitz for
> >>> commiter (I just became a commiter myself). Phil is the initial
> >>> proposal author on the math project. That in and of itself should be
> >>> enough to warrant his inclusion. Phil has been supplying many patches
> >>> and is now considering development of the "complex number" architecture
> >>> for the package. I think he would make an excellent commiter as he has
> >>> done a great deal of work via patches to clarify the coding, testing
> >>> and documentation standards for the math project. We *need* him to have
> >>> commit rights on this project before we can make it to release.
> >>>
> >>> +1
> >>>
> >>> Mark Diggory
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
All very well and good, (as you advised earlier) I will try to be more
patient on the matter. I'm sure this will resolve in time without
stepping out of bounds.
-M.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> hi mark
>
> it's pretty much the scenario that you describe that concerns me. phil
> has certainly been the most active member of the commons-math
> development team but commons-math was originate by myself. i'm glad to
> say that tim joined and has done most of the spade work (good work,
> tim). it's a credit to the commons-math community that the contribution
> by non-committers has been so great. this points towards a healthy
> future for the component.
>
> there are other avenues in apache available for the development of code
> bases - the incubator project or the commons project where the rules and
> aims are different. but commons-math is in the sandbox and we need to be
> careful about remaining within the bounds set.
>
> - robert
>
> On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 11:35 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>>
>> Your viewpoint is warranted and understandable, the motivation for the
>> sandbox is to provide a means to refactor existing projects/fragments
>> into better designed components, As such its fair to see its activity
>> oriented to existing developers. I know I was voted in for both my
>> interest in the Math component project and the past work I've done
>> with Jelly and HttpClient.
>>
>> But IMHO, this is a unique case that should be reconsidered. Consider
>> the following: a non-commiter reviews a project in the Commons, sees
>> that there are avenues for enhancment or refactoring, and proposes a
>> project to consolidate/enhance those features. This proposal is
>> approved and a new sandbox project is born. Because the one who
>> proposed the project is not already a commiter, their efforts are
>> diminished during the projects initial development. Thus "limiting"
>> the projects productivity and future development.
>>
>> I don't believe math started as an independent project, math is the
>> foster child of the lang project, based on decisions about enhancing
>> and giving a home to the math features that are present there. As
>> such, there is a grey area here. As Phil's basis for proposing was on
>> code in [lang]
>> it possibly seems the responsibility for nominating commit rights
>> falls on the shoulders of that original commons component [lang]. This
>> is based on the discussions about placing math tools in lang that gave
>> rise to the sandbox math development.
>>
>> Finally, To clarify, my specific reasons for nomination concern the
>> fact that a large amount of "energy pushing this component forwards"
>> is coming from Phil, being he initially proposed the project, isn't it
>> unfair to exclude him from being a member of the team that brings it
>> to maturity?
>>
>> Long live Jakarta-Commons,
>> Mark Diggory
>>
>>
>> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>>
>>> i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the
>>> qualities required and i'd support a nomination when and if math
>>> makes it into the commons proper) but i think that nominating people
>>> for contributions to the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or
>>> later) and also that it's against the spirit of the common charter.
>>> as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the
>>> sandbox,
>>> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
>>> exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that
>>> the commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
>>>
>>> i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination
>>> (that we need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one.
>>> we in the commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the
>>> sandbox. if there is insufficient energy to push a component forwards
>>> then there will be insufficient energy to properly supervise new
>>> committers.
>>
>>
>>> i'd like to ask the math developers for a little patience. i'm
>>> convinced that commons-math has a bright future but it will take a
>>> little time. i also hope that phil doesn't take this personally (this
>>> isn't anything against him personally but against the principle of
>>> nominating new non-apache committers for sandbox components).
>>> -1
>>> - robert
>>> On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 02:39 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure if I have enough rights yet to nominate Phil Steitz for
>>>> commiter (I just became a commiter myself). Phil is the initial
>>>> proposal author on the math project. That in and of itself should be
>>>> enough to warrant his inclusion. Phil has been supplying many
>>>> patches and is now considering development of the "complex number"
>>>> architecture for the package. I think he would make an excellent
>>>> commiter as he has done a great deal of work via patches to clarify
>>>> the coding, testing and documentation standards for the math
>>>> project. We *need* him to have commit rights on this project before
>>>> we can make it to release.
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> Mark Diggory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
hi mark
it's pretty much the scenario that you describe that concerns me. phil has
certainly been the most active member of the commons-math development team
but commons-math was originate by myself. i'm glad to say that tim joined
and has done most of the spade work (good work, tim). it's a credit to the
commons-math community that the contribution by non-committers has been so
great. this points towards a healthy future for the component.
there are other avenues in apache available for the development of code
bases - the incubator project or the commons project where the rules and
aims are different. but commons-math is in the sandbox and we need to be
careful about remaining within the bounds set.
- robert
On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 11:35 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> Robert,
>
> Your viewpoint is warranted and understandable, the motivation for the
> sandbox is to provide a means to refactor existing projects/fragments
> into better designed components, As such its fair to see its activity
> oriented to existing developers. I know I was voted in for both my
> interest in the Math component project and the past work I've done with
> Jelly and HttpClient.
>
> But IMHO, this is a unique case that should be reconsidered. Consider the
> following: a non-commiter reviews a project in the Commons, sees that
> there are avenues for enhancment or refactoring, and proposes a project
> to consolidate/enhance those features. This proposal is approved and a
> new sandbox project is born. Because the one who proposed the project is
> not already a commiter, their efforts are diminished during the projects
> initial development. Thus "limiting" the projects productivity and future
> development.
>
> I don't believe math started as an independent project, math is the
> foster child of the lang project, based on decisions about enhancing and
> giving a home to the math features that are present there. As such, there
> is a grey area here. As Phil's basis for proposing was on code in [lang]
> it possibly seems the responsibility for nominating commit rights falls
> on the shoulders of that original commons component [lang]. This is based
> on the discussions about placing math tools in lang that gave rise to the
> sandbox math development.
>
> Finally, To clarify, my specific reasons for nomination concern the fact
> that a large amount of "energy pushing this component forwards" is coming
> from Phil, being he initially proposed the project, isn't it unfair to
> exclude him from being a member of the team that brings it to maturity?
>
> Long live Jakarta-Commons,
> Mark Diggory
>
>
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>> i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the qualities
>> required and i'd support a nomination when and if math makes it into the
>> commons proper) but i think that nominating people for contributions to
>> the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or later) and also that it's
>> against the spirit of the common charter.
>> as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the
>> sandbox,
>> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
>> exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that
>> the commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
>>
>> i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination (that
>> we need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one. we in the
>> commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the sandbox. if there is
>> insufficient energy to push a component forwards then there will be
>> insufficient energy to properly supervise new committers.
>
>> i'd like to ask the math developers for a little patience. i'm convinced
>> that commons-math has a bright future but it will take a little time. i
>> also hope that phil doesn't take this personally (this isn't anything
>> against him personally but against the principle of nominating new
>> non-apache committers for sandbox components).
>> -1
>> - robert
>> On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 02:39 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>>> I'm not sure if I have enough rights yet to nominate Phil Steitz for
>>> commiter (I just became a commiter myself). Phil is the initial
>>> proposal author on the math project. That in and of itself should be
>>> enough to warrant his inclusion. Phil has been supplying many patches
>>> and is now considering development of the "complex number" architecture
>>> for the package. I think he would make an excellent commiter as he has
>>> done a great deal of work via patches to clarify the coding, testing
>>> and documentation standards for the math project. We *need* him to have
>>> commit rights on this project before we can make it to release.
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Mark Diggory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Robert,
Your viewpoint is warranted and understandable, the motivation for the
sandbox is to provide a means to refactor existing projects/fragments
into better designed components, As such its fair to see its activity
oriented to existing developers. I know I was voted in for both my
interest in the Math component project and the past work I've done with
Jelly and HttpClient.
But IMHO, this is a unique case that should be reconsidered. Consider
the following: a non-commiter reviews a project in the Commons, sees
that there are avenues for enhancment or refactoring, and proposes a
project to consolidate/enhance those features. This proposal is approved
and a new sandbox project is born. Because the one who proposed the
project is not already a commiter, their efforts are diminished during
the projects initial development. Thus "limiting" the projects
productivity and future development.
I don't believe math started as an independent project, math is the
foster child of the lang project, based on decisions about enhancing and
giving a home to the math features that are present there. As such,
there is a grey area here. As Phil's basis for proposing was on code in
[lang] it possibly seems the responsibility for nominating commit rights
falls on the shoulders of that original commons component [lang]. This
is based on the discussions about placing math tools in lang that gave
rise to the sandbox math development.
Finally, To clarify, my specific reasons for nomination concern the fact
that a large amount of "energy pushing this component forwards" is
coming from Phil, being he initially proposed the project, isn't it
unfair to exclude him from being a member of the team that brings it to
maturity?
Long live Jakarta-Commons,
Mark Diggory
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the qualities
> required and i'd support a nomination when and if math makes it into the
> commons proper) but i think that nominating people for contributions to
> the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or later) and also that it's
> against the spirit of the common charter.
>
> as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the sandbox,
> nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
> exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that
> the commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
>
> i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination (that
> we need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one. we in the
> commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the sandbox. if there is
> insufficient energy to push a component forwards then there will be
> insufficient energy to properly supervise new committers.
> i'd like to
> ask the math developers for a little patience. i'm convinced that
> commons-math has a bright future but it will take a little time. i also
> hope that phil doesn't take this personally (this isn't anything against
> him personally but against the principle of nominating new non-apache
> committers for sandbox components).
>
> -1
>
> - robert
>
> On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 02:39 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure if I have enough rights yet to nominate Phil Steitz for
>> commiter (I just became a commiter myself). Phil is the initial
>> proposal author on the math project. That in and of itself should be
>> enough to warrant his inclusion. Phil has been supplying many patches
>> and is now considering development of the "complex number"
>> architecture for the package. I think he would make an excellent
>> commiter as he has done a great deal of work via patches to clarify
>> the coding, testing and documentation standards for the math project.
>> We *need* him to have commit rights on this project before we can make
>> it to release.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Mark Diggory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] New Commiter Phil Steitz
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
i'm sad to do this (since i think that phil's demonstrated the qualities
required and i'd support a nomination when and if math makes it into the
commons proper) but i think that nominating people for contributions to
the sandbox will cause troubles (sooner or later) and also that it's
against the spirit of the common charter.
as i understand it, the commons is responsible for supervising the sandbox,
nothing more. the sandbox is not a subproject in it's own right and
exists only to allow apache developers to collaborate. i believe that the
commons can and should only elect committers for its own components.
i also feel that one of the reasons stated by mark for nomination (that we
need him on board to make it to release) is not a good one. we in the
commons are charged by the ASF with supervising the sandbox. if there is
insufficient energy to push a component forwards then there will be
insufficient energy to properly supervise new committers. i'd like to ask
the math developers for a little patience. i'm convinced that commons-math
has a bright future but it will take a little time. i also hope that phil
doesn't take this personally (this isn't anything against him personally
but against the principle of nominating new non-apache committers for
sandbox components).
-1
- robert
On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 02:39 PM, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> I'm not sure if I have enough rights yet to nominate Phil Steitz for
> commiter (I just became a commiter myself). Phil is the initial proposal
> author on the math project. That in and of itself should be enough to
> warrant his inclusion. Phil has been supplying many patches and is now
> considering development of the "complex number" architecture for the
> package. I think he would make an excellent commiter as he has done a
> great deal of work via patches to clarify the coding, testing and
> documentation standards for the math project. We *need* him to have
> commit rights on this project before we can make it to release.
>
> +1
>
> Mark Diggory
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
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