You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Greg Hess <gh...@wrappedapps.com> on 2003/08/20 21:10:46 UTC
[OT] Web Services, what have I done?
Hi All,
This post might seem odd but I am looking for some insight into a
solution that I have implemented. I am trying to get a better
understanding of how my implementation fits into the grand scheme of a
Web Service and how I might document this implementation. I have been
reading about WSDL and about SOAP and am still not sure what I have done
:-), and how my implementation is compatible or not compatible with what
the industry is calling a Web Service mainly for documentation purposes
even though I would love to build this functionality based on industry
standards.
I have built a web app using STRUTS of course that allows for external
remote systems to invoke RPC's (Remote Procedure Call) on an area of the
apps functionality. I allow remote systems to communicate using XML over
HTTP POST. Communication involves the invocation request and response. I
have created a invocation.dtd that defines the invocation data structure
and all the supported methods and arguments and the response.dtd that
defines the result data structure returned by any invocation.
As far as I can understand so far this is very similar to a SOAP
envelope.
The client of this implementation builds the invocation XML data
structure as defined by invocation.dtd, opens a connection to defined
URL and writes the XML invocation directly to the connections
OutputStream and reads the XML response directly from the connections
InputStream.
Having built this implementation and ducking the learning curve of Web
Services, SOAP implementation because I found it difficult to implement
with my shaky understanding of Web Services I am hoping that I might now
be able to get a better understanding of Web Services and how they
relate to what I have done in the hopes that I might get inline with the
industry and write great software and document what I have done :-).
Any insight is greatly appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Greg Hess
Software Engineer
Wrapped Apps Corporation
275 Michael Cowpland Dr.
Suite 201
Ottawa, Ontario
K2M 2G2
Tel: (613) 591 -7552
Fax: (613) 591-0523
1 (877) 388-6742
<http://www.wrappedapps.com/>
RE: [OT] Web Services, what have I done?
Posted by Andrew Shirk <sh...@ncsa.uiuc.edu>.
Yes, SOAP, WSDL and UDDI are THE standards for web services. The primary
motivation for web services is interoperability among disparate systems.
Without the using the standards, you won't get the interoperability. The
Java Web Services Developer Pack (JWSDP - http://java.sun.com/webservices/)
from Sun including JAX-RPC make it relatively painless to develop your web
service in a standardized way. You should probably also read the tutorial:
http://java.sun.com/webservices/docs/1.2/tutorial/doc/index.html
Andrew
At 10:35 AM 8/21/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Many thanks for your input,
>
>I am trying to justify converting my implementation to use SOAP and
>WSDL. My main concern is in the complexities that this would introduce
>into this web service. If a large majority of developers out there are
>not familiar with SOAP and WSDL it might add a large learning curve for
>the clients of the web service.
>
>Is this standard really taking off, enough to justify my time and
>efforts in the conversion and my clients in learning SOAP and WSDL or am
>I in the dark and most already know it?
>
>One of my main objectives right now is to document the web service and
>love the idea of being able to use WSDL to do it. Having to document my
>whole implementation will take some time and would prefer only having to
>document the RPC's and functionality not to mention using a commercial
>approach that probably handles many issues I have not yet encountered.
>
>Greg
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: Andrew Hill [mailto:andrew.david.hill@gridnode.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:58 PM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [OT] Web Services, what have I done?
> >
> > Im just getting started looking at web services myself , so dont have
>a
> > detailed technical grasp, but a seminar I attended a couple of days
>ago is
> > still fresh in my mind so Ill have a go at fielding this one...
> >
> > What you have done would fit into the 'academic' definition of a 'web
> > service quite nicely'. Of course it doesn't make use of the standards
> > (SOAP,
> > WSDL) which means its a proprietary implementation of a web service
>and
> > for
> > anyone to use it they would have to use your methodology and message
> > format.
> > Roughly speaking, your dtd seems to be taking the place of of the wsdl
> > document, and your own xml format taking the place of the SOAP
>envelope &
> > data.
> >
> > The 'popular' conception of a web service is of course one that
>involves
> > the
> > use of SOAP, WSDL, UDDI and such like, so when you talk about 'web
> > services'
> > this is what comes to peoples minds.
> >
> > Id most strongly suggest that you now convert (or investigate how
> > difficult
> > it would be to convert) what you have done to make use of soap and
>wsdl to
> > make it easier for others to make use of your service. Having
>reinvented
> > parts of those wheels yourself, you will probably find it a quite
> > interesting exercise to see how what you do compares with the
>standards.
> > With the knowledge you gained doing it your way, you should find
>learning
> > the standard way much easier as you will see much of the reasoning
>behind
> > things in the standard having covered that ground yourself already!
> >
> > You will want to take a look at the AXIS project first as you will
> > probably
> > want to make use of it:
> > http://ws.apache.org/axis/
> >
> > IBM are pretty big on Web Services (and have donated a ton of web
>services
> > stuff to the opensource community) so go take a look at whats
>available on
> > their developerWorks site:
> > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/
> >
> > And of course the w3c web service stuff is at:
> > http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/
> >
> > And the WS-I at:
> > http://www.ws-i.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Greg Hess [mailto:ghess@wrappedapps.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2003 03:11
> > To: Struts
> > Subject: [OT] Web Services, what have I done?
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > This post might seem odd but I am looking for some insight into a
>solution
> > that I have implemented. I am trying to get a better understanding of
>how
> > my
> > implementation fits into the grand scheme of a Web Service and how I
>might
> > document this implementation. I have been reading about WSDL and about
> > SOAP
> > and am still not sure what I have done J, and how my implementation is
> > compatible or not compatible with what the industry is calling a Web
> > Service
> > mainly for documentation purposes even though I would love to build
>this
> > functionality based on industry standards.
> >
> > I have built a web app using STRUTS of course that allows for external
> > remote systems to invoke RPC's (Remote Procedure Call) on an area of
>the
> > apps functionality. I allow remote systems to communicate using XML
>over
> > HTTP POST. Communication involves the invocation request and response.
>I
> > have created a invocation.dtd that defines the invocation data
>structure
> > and
> > all the supported methods and arguments and the response.dtd that
>defines
> > the result data structure returned by any invocation.
> > As far as I can understand so far this is very similar to a SOAP
>envelope.
> >
> > The client of this implementation builds the invocation XML data
>structure
> > as defined by invocation.dtd, opens a connection to defined URL and
>writes
> > the XML invocation directly to the connections OutputStream and reads
>the
> > XML response directly from the connections InputStream.
> >
> > Having built this implementation and ducking the learning curve of Web
> > Services, SOAP implementation because I found it difficult to
>implement
> > with
> > my shaky understanding of Web Services I am hoping that I might now be
> > able
> > to get a better understanding of Web Services and how they relate to
>what
> > I
> > have done in the hopes that I might get inline with the industry and
>write
> > great software and document what I have done J.
> >
> > Any insight is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Greg Hess
> > Software Engineer
> > Wrapped Apps Corporation
> > 275 Michael Cowpland Dr.
> > Suite 201
> > Ottawa, Ontario
> > K2M 2G2
> > Tel: (613) 591 -7552
> > Fax: (613) 591-0523
> > 1 (877) 388-6742
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
RE: [OT] Web Services, what have I done?
Posted by Greg Hess <gh...@wrappedapps.com>.
Many thanks for your input,
I am trying to justify converting my implementation to use SOAP and
WSDL. My main concern is in the complexities that this would introduce
into this web service. If a large majority of developers out there are
not familiar with SOAP and WSDL it might add a large learning curve for
the clients of the web service.
Is this standard really taking off, enough to justify my time and
efforts in the conversion and my clients in learning SOAP and WSDL or am
I in the dark and most already know it?
One of my main objectives right now is to document the web service and
love the idea of being able to use WSDL to do it. Having to document my
whole implementation will take some time and would prefer only having to
document the RPC's and functionality not to mention using a commercial
approach that probably handles many issues I have not yet encountered.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Hill [mailto:andrew.david.hill@gridnode.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:58 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [OT] Web Services, what have I done?
>
> Im just getting started looking at web services myself , so dont have
a
> detailed technical grasp, but a seminar I attended a couple of days
ago is
> still fresh in my mind so Ill have a go at fielding this one...
>
> What you have done would fit into the 'academic' definition of a 'web
> service quite nicely'. Of course it doesn't make use of the standards
> (SOAP,
> WSDL) which means its a proprietary implementation of a web service
and
> for
> anyone to use it they would have to use your methodology and message
> format.
> Roughly speaking, your dtd seems to be taking the place of of the wsdl
> document, and your own xml format taking the place of the SOAP
envelope &
> data.
>
> The 'popular' conception of a web service is of course one that
involves
> the
> use of SOAP, WSDL, UDDI and such like, so when you talk about 'web
> services'
> this is what comes to peoples minds.
>
> Id most strongly suggest that you now convert (or investigate how
> difficult
> it would be to convert) what you have done to make use of soap and
wsdl to
> make it easier for others to make use of your service. Having
reinvented
> parts of those wheels yourself, you will probably find it a quite
> interesting exercise to see how what you do compares with the
standards.
> With the knowledge you gained doing it your way, you should find
learning
> the standard way much easier as you will see much of the reasoning
behind
> things in the standard having covered that ground yourself already!
>
> You will want to take a look at the AXIS project first as you will
> probably
> want to make use of it:
> http://ws.apache.org/axis/
>
> IBM are pretty big on Web Services (and have donated a ton of web
services
> stuff to the opensource community) so go take a look at whats
available on
> their developerWorks site:
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/
>
> And of course the w3c web service stuff is at:
> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/
>
> And the WS-I at:
> http://www.ws-i.org/
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Hess [mailto:ghess@wrappedapps.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2003 03:11
> To: Struts
> Subject: [OT] Web Services, what have I done?
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> This post might seem odd but I am looking for some insight into a
solution
> that I have implemented. I am trying to get a better understanding of
how
> my
> implementation fits into the grand scheme of a Web Service and how I
might
> document this implementation. I have been reading about WSDL and about
> SOAP
> and am still not sure what I have done J, and how my implementation is
> compatible or not compatible with what the industry is calling a Web
> Service
> mainly for documentation purposes even though I would love to build
this
> functionality based on industry standards.
>
> I have built a web app using STRUTS of course that allows for external
> remote systems to invoke RPC's (Remote Procedure Call) on an area of
the
> apps functionality. I allow remote systems to communicate using XML
over
> HTTP POST. Communication involves the invocation request and response.
I
> have created a invocation.dtd that defines the invocation data
structure
> and
> all the supported methods and arguments and the response.dtd that
defines
> the result data structure returned by any invocation.
> As far as I can understand so far this is very similar to a SOAP
envelope.
>
> The client of this implementation builds the invocation XML data
structure
> as defined by invocation.dtd, opens a connection to defined URL and
writes
> the XML invocation directly to the connections OutputStream and reads
the
> XML response directly from the connections InputStream.
>
> Having built this implementation and ducking the learning curve of Web
> Services, SOAP implementation because I found it difficult to
implement
> with
> my shaky understanding of Web Services I am hoping that I might now be
> able
> to get a better understanding of Web Services and how they relate to
what
> I
> have done in the hopes that I might get inline with the industry and
write
> great software and document what I have done J.
>
> Any insight is greatly appreciated.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Greg Hess
> Software Engineer
> Wrapped Apps Corporation
> 275 Michael Cowpland Dr.
> Suite 201
> Ottawa, Ontario
> K2M 2G2
> Tel: (613) 591 -7552
> Fax: (613) 591-0523
> 1 (877) 388-6742
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
RE: [OT] Web Services, what have I done?
Posted by Andrew Hill <an...@gridnode.com>.
Im just getting started looking at web services myself , so dont have a
detailed technical grasp, but a seminar I attended a couple of days ago is
still fresh in my mind so Ill have a go at fielding this one...
What you have done would fit into the 'academic' definition of a 'web
service quite nicely'. Of course it doesn't make use of the standards (SOAP,
WSDL) which means its a proprietary implementation of a web service and for
anyone to use it they would have to use your methodology and message format.
Roughly speaking, your dtd seems to be taking the place of of the wsdl
document, and your own xml format taking the place of the SOAP envelope &
data.
The 'popular' conception of a web service is of course one that involves the
use of SOAP, WSDL, UDDI and such like, so when you talk about 'web services'
this is what comes to peoples minds.
Id most strongly suggest that you now convert (or investigate how difficult
it would be to convert) what you have done to make use of soap and wsdl to
make it easier for others to make use of your service. Having reinvented
parts of those wheels yourself, you will probably find it a quite
interesting exercise to see how what you do compares with the standards.
With the knowledge you gained doing it your way, you should find learning
the standard way much easier as you will see much of the reasoning behind
things in the standard having covered that ground yourself already!
You will want to take a look at the AXIS project first as you will probably
want to make use of it:
http://ws.apache.org/axis/
IBM are pretty big on Web Services (and have donated a ton of web services
stuff to the opensource community) so go take a look at whats available on
their developerWorks site:
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/
And of course the w3c web service stuff is at:
http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/
And the WS-I at:
http://www.ws-i.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Hess [mailto:ghess@wrappedapps.com]
Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2003 03:11
To: Struts
Subject: [OT] Web Services, what have I done?
Hi All,
This post might seem odd but I am looking for some insight into a solution
that I have implemented. I am trying to get a better understanding of how my
implementation fits into the grand scheme of a Web Service and how I might
document this implementation. I have been reading about WSDL and about SOAP
and am still not sure what I have done J, and how my implementation is
compatible or not compatible with what the industry is calling a Web Service
mainly for documentation purposes even though I would love to build this
functionality based on industry standards.
I have built a web app using STRUTS of course that allows for external
remote systems to invoke RPC's (Remote Procedure Call) on an area of the
apps functionality. I allow remote systems to communicate using XML over
HTTP POST. Communication involves the invocation request and response. I
have created a invocation.dtd that defines the invocation data structure and
all the supported methods and arguments and the response.dtd that defines
the result data structure returned by any invocation.
As far as I can understand so far this is very similar to a SOAP envelope.
The client of this implementation builds the invocation XML data structure
as defined by invocation.dtd, opens a connection to defined URL and writes
the XML invocation directly to the connections OutputStream and reads the
XML response directly from the connections InputStream.
Having built this implementation and ducking the learning curve of Web
Services, SOAP implementation because I found it difficult to implement with
my shaky understanding of Web Services I am hoping that I might now be able
to get a better understanding of Web Services and how they relate to what I
have done in the hopes that I might get inline with the industry and write
great software and document what I have done J.
Any insight is greatly appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Greg Hess
Software Engineer
Wrapped Apps Corporation
275 Michael Cowpland Dr.
Suite 201
Ottawa, Ontario
K2M 2G2
Tel: (613) 591 -7552
Fax: (613) 591-0523
1 (877) 388-6742
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: struts-user-help@jakarta.apache.org