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Posted to dev@httpd.apache.org by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org> on 2000/07/14 01:21:49 UTC
[esr@thyrsus.com: Re: [Python-Dev] zlib not compiled by default]
Oy... I think that I've just hit the twilight zone. Speaking of including
other libraries in Apache -- the same issue is occurring over in the Python
core development list.
Here is a great comment from Eric. It talks about *purpose* -- what are we
trying to accomplish. Moshe's motivation is also a nice point.
Cheers,
-g
----- Forwarded message from "Eric S. Raymond" <es...@thyrsus.com> -----
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:32:20 -0400
From: "Eric S. Raymond" <es...@thyrsus.com>
To: Moshe Zadka <mo...@math.huji.ac.il>
Cc: Jeremy Hylton <je...@beopen.com>,
"Python-Dev@Python. Org" <py...@python.org>
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] zlib not compiled by default
Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com
Moshe Zadka <mo...@math.huji.ac.il>:
> I'm currently drawing a list for extensions to include:
>
> -- zlib
> -- Tcl/Tk
> -- expat
> -- PIL
> -- Anything else?
>
> I really want something with "everything" in it.
>
> My motivation: I work on quite a few Unixes at work (AIX, Solaris, HP and
> probably more to come). Installing Python on any of these is a pain --
> exactly because of the need to download 5-6 packages, and install them
> iteratively.
I'm with Moshe on this one -- and I'll go further: I think the `rich'
distribution ought to be the default mode, and would be willing to take
on substantial work to help it happen.
I agree with his choice of initial modules, too, and would certainly
add ncurses, and would be sorely tempted to add libpng.
Moshe's desire is a logical consequence of the "batteries are
included" philosophy which is one of Python's central strengths. A
good language *ought* to guarantee all its developers and users
fuss-free access to a rich kit of state-of-the-art open source tools
and libraries. If this means taking on the complexities of tracking
several auxiliary libraries and making sure there is a consistent
Python API to them as they evolve, so be it.
That's our job, gentlemen.
--
<a href="http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr">Eric S. Raymond</a>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
_______________________________________________
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
----- End forwarded message -----
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
Re: [esr@thyrsus.com: Re: [Python-Dev] zlib not compiled by default]
Posted by Chuck Murcko <ch...@topsail.org>.
Greg Stein wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2000 at 07:48:14PM -0400, Chuck Murcko wrote:
> > This thread's definitely hit the twilight zone.
> >
> > Frankly, though, I don't believe it's Eric's job to tell me what my job
> > is. 8^)
>
> *blink*
>
> Um. I didn't see that he was. I take it you have issues with ESR? :-)
>
Only with lines like
That's our job, gentlemen.
That sounds a little over the top to me. 8^)
--
Chuck
Chuck Murcko
Topsail Group
chuck@topsail.org
Re: [esr@thyrsus.com: Re: [Python-Dev] zlib not compiled by default]
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
On Thu, Jul 13, 2000 at 07:48:14PM -0400, Chuck Murcko wrote:
> This thread's definitely hit the twilight zone.
>
> Frankly, though, I don't believe it's Eric's job to tell me what my job
> is. 8^)
*blink*
Um. I didn't see that he was. I take it you have issues with ESR? :-)
Cheers,
-g
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
Re: [esr@thyrsus.com: Re: [Python-Dev] zlib not compiled by default]
Posted by Chuck Murcko <ch...@topsail.org>.
This thread's definitely hit the twilight zone.
Frankly, though, I don't believe it's Eric's job to tell me what my job
is. 8^)
Greg Stein wrote:
>
> Oy... I think that I've just hit the twilight zone. Speaking of including
> other libraries in Apache -- the same issue is occurring over in the Python
> core development list.
>
> Here is a great comment from Eric. It talks about *purpose* -- what are we
> trying to accomplish. Moshe's motivation is also a nice point.
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
> ----- Forwarded message from "Eric S. Raymond" <es...@thyrsus.com> -----
>
> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:32:20 -0400
> From: "Eric S. Raymond" <es...@thyrsus.com>
> To: Moshe Zadka <mo...@math.huji.ac.il>
> Cc: Jeremy Hylton <je...@beopen.com>,
> "Python-Dev@Python. Org" <py...@python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] zlib not compiled by default
> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com
>
> Moshe Zadka <mo...@math.huji.ac.il>:
> > I'm currently drawing a list for extensions to include:
> >
> > -- zlib
> > -- Tcl/Tk
> > -- expat
> > -- PIL
> > -- Anything else?
> >
> > I really want something with "everything" in it.
> >
> > My motivation: I work on quite a few Unixes at work (AIX, Solaris, HP and
> > probably more to come). Installing Python on any of these is a pain --
> > exactly because of the need to download 5-6 packages, and install them
> > iteratively.
>
> I'm with Moshe on this one -- and I'll go further: I think the `rich'
> distribution ought to be the default mode, and would be willing to take
> on substantial work to help it happen.
>
> I agree with his choice of initial modules, too, and would certainly
> add ncurses, and would be sorely tempted to add libpng.
>
> Moshe's desire is a logical consequence of the "batteries are
> included" philosophy which is one of Python's central strengths. A
> good language *ought* to guarantee all its developers and users
> fuss-free access to a rich kit of state-of-the-art open source tools
> and libraries. If this means taking on the complexities of tracking
> several auxiliary libraries and making sure there is a consistent
> Python API to them as they evolve, so be it.
>
> That's our job, gentlemen.
> --
> <a href="http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr">Eric S. Raymond</a>
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list
> Python-Dev@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> --
> Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
--
Chuck
Chuck Murcko
Topsail Group
chuck@topsail.org