You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to java-user@axis.apache.org by st...@gmail.com on 2008/04/29 01:37:20 UTC
The WS Crazy Train!
Can someone either provide me a URL for xanax or a site that explains the
interplay between SOAP/JAXB/WSDL/Schema/blah, blah, yada. yada? I am trying
to figure out what is actually necessary to produce & consume web services
in Java and I am hearing that many of these technologies are optional! In
fact, today it was decided that WSDL2Java produced too many artifacts and
that writing web services could be much simpler. How do RESTful web
services play into this mix, and what are the pros/cons to the permutations
of ws stacks? I would gladly throw down my AMEX if someone can recommend a
good book/resource that might clear this confusion.
Peace,
--
Scott
stanlick@gmail.com
RE: The WS Crazy Train!
Posted by Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com>.
Good Morning Steve
I've coded Axis HL7 interfaces for a local HealthCare organisation
I am now thinking that I should have used a REST interface to enable multiple transactions(A01/A08/A03)
by calling multiple URIs
Is there a book you can recommend for this effort?
Many Thanks,
Martin Gainty
______________________________________________
Disclaimer and confidentiality note
Everything in this e-mail and any attachments relates to the official business of Sender. This transmission is of a confidential nature and Sender does not endorse distribution to any party other than intended recipient. Sender does not necessarily endorse content contained within this transmission.
> Subject: Re: The WS Crazy Train!
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> From: SGruverman@intellicare.com
> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:10:01 -0400
>
> "robert lazarski" <ro...@gmail.com> wrote on 04/29/2008 07:59:58
> AM:
> > I haven't read this book, but I remember when it came out. Hope it helps.
>
> I've found this book very helpful - once you make the decision to go with
> Axis2 (and especially if you use Eclipse).
> It doesn't really give much of a broad overview of the WS space or help you
> in making the other choices (platform, REST vs SOAP, etc).
>
> - Steve
>
> ______________________________________________
> Steve Gruverman, Programmer
> IntelliCare, Inc. | A Medco Health Solutions Company
>
> 500 Southborough Drive | South Portland ME 04106
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org
>
_________________________________________________________________
Back to work after baby–how do you know when you’re ready?
http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentid=5797498&ocid=T067MSN40A0701A
Re: The WS Crazy Train!
Posted by SG...@intellicare.com.
"robert lazarski" <ro...@gmail.com> wrote on 04/29/2008 07:59:58
AM:
> I haven't read this book, but I remember when it came out. Hope it helps.
I've found this book very helpful - once you make the decision to go with
Axis2 (and especially if you use Eclipse).
It doesn't really give much of a broad overview of the WS space or help you
in making the other choices (platform, REST vs SOAP, etc).
- Steve
______________________________________________
Steve Gruverman, Programmer
IntelliCare, Inc. | A Medco Health Solutions Company
500 Southborough Drive | South Portland ME 04106
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org
Re: The WS Crazy Train!
Posted by robert lazarski <ro...@gmail.com>.
I haven't read this book, but I remember when it came out. Hope it helps.
http://www.agileskills2.org/DWSAA
Robert
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 8:51 AM, <SG...@intellicare.com> wrote:
> Brennan,
>
> As someone who's only a few (intensive) months further along the WS path
> than Scott seems to be, that is a beautiful summary. Very much in agreement
> with what I've found (but presented with the perspective, I think, of a lot
> more experience).
>
> Very helpful to have things summarized like that! Thank you.
>
> - Steve
>
> p.s. Have you considered writing the book that Scott is looking for? :-) I
> certainly spent a lot of time looking for one and didn't find it.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Steve Gruverman, Programmer
> IntelliCare, Inc. | A Medco Health Solutions Company
>
> 500 Southborough Drive | South Portland ME 04106
>
>
> "Brennan Spies" <br...@sbcglobal.net> wrote on 04/29/2008 02:00:01
> AM:
>
> > Scott,
> >
> > That's a tall order. There's lots to say about this space, and it
> > won't be contained in one web page. Can't help you with the Xanax,
> > but I can give you the brief tour of WS in Java. Here goes...
> >
> > 1. At the high level, your first decision is SOAP vs. REST. REST
> > implies POX (plain old XML)--though it's not necessarily the case,
> > that's the way the majority of RESTful services are developed. SOAP
> > is just a message format, but all of the WS-* standards (and there's
> > a lot of them) and WSDL (at least until v.2.0) revolve entirely
> > around using SOAP; hence the perceived complexity because there's
> > more to learn. REST has less structure, so it can be simpler when
> > developing simple web services; however, if you have other
> > requirements, such as security or policy, going with REST could be
> > more difficult and error-prone than SOAP. It's over-simplifying a
> > bit, but the distinction can be summed up as "go with the standards"
> > in SOAP or "roll your own" with REST. Taking a look at some of the
> > more popular web services from Google, Amazon, etc. may give you a
> > better feeling for this.
> >
> > 2. Your second decision is going to be which Web Services stack to
> > use. In Java, the major ones are Apache Axis 2.0, Apache CXF, Spring
> > Web Services, and the JAX-WS reference implementation (on java.net).
> > You'll have to match their features against your requirements to see
> > which one fits you best. There's a fair amount of overlap in
> > features (and even in the 3rd party libs they use), but there are
> > significant differences as well. I'd recommend not using Axis 1.0 at
> > this stage, since it is about 4-5 times slower than the newer stacks
> > under load.
> >
> > 3. JAXB is simply a framework for XML-Java binding, one among many:
> > JiBX, XML Beans, Castor, ADB, etc. Which one you use may be decided
> > by which one(s) the stack in #2 you choose supports (you'll choose
> > JAXB, for example, if you use Sun's JAX-WS reference
> > implementation), but all except JAX-WS RI support more than one
> > binding framework.
> >
> > 4. XML Schema is the standard way of defining XML types in
> > SOAP/WSDL, but there are others. In WSDL 1.2 and 2.0, for example, you
> can(
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl20-altschemalangs/) use Relax NG, but--
> > practically speaking--XML Schema rules the roost here.
> >
> > 5. Most WS frameworks (from #2) support two basic styles of
> > development: top-down (write WSDL, generate Java--WSDL2Java, for
> > instance) and bottom-up (generate WSDL and other artifacts from your
> > Java code). I prefer the first, but bottom up may be simpler if you
> > are just starting out, esp. if you already have code that you are
> > adding a web service to. JSR-181 (JAX-WS) is particularly nice for
> > this approach, since you just add annotations to your existing code.
> >
> > 6. If you must buy a book, don't buy anything that's been published
> > more than a year ago. The landscape has changed a lot in the last
> > year or two. One of my favorites, "J2EE Web Services" by Richard
> > Monson-Haefel, is already out-of-date.
> >
> > Well, that's it for the nickel tour. The brush strokes are pretty
> > broad here, but I hope I've given you a better idea.
> >
> > Brennan
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: stanlick@gmail.com
> > To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:37 PM
> > Subject: The WS Crazy Train!
> >
> > Can someone either provide me a URL for xanax or a site that
> > explains the interplay between SOAP/JAXB/WSDL/Schema/blah, blah,
> > yada. yada? I am trying to figure out what is actually necessary to
> > produce & consume web services in Java and I am hearing that many of
> > these technologies are optional! In fact, today it was decided that
> > WSDL2Java produced too many artifacts and that writing web services
> > could be much simpler. How do RESTful web services play into this
> > mix, and what are the pros/cons to the permutations of ws stacks? I
> > would gladly throw down my AMEX if someone can recommend a good
> > book/resource that might clear this confusion.
> >
> > Peace,
> > --
> > Scott
> > stanlick@gmail.com
> >
> > --
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> > believed to be clean.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org
Re: The WS Crazy Train!
Posted by Brennan Spies <br...@sbcglobal.net>.
Steve,
That's an interesting suggestion! Actually I do write for a "techno blog" at
http://www.ajaxonomy.com, mostly because I know the guy who started the
site. He's been bugging me lately to write more, because I have been busy
with my own OS project. Maybe a series on web services would be a good place
to start.
You're right about the dearth of WS books lately...which is surprising. I
would have thought that Manning or O'Reilly would have something more in the
pipeline in the way of "general purpose" web services books. Hopefully Mr.
Monson-Haefel will do a refresh of his book on web services. That I would
buy...
Brennan
----- Original Message -----
From: <SG...@intellicare.com>
To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: The WS Crazy Train!
> Brennan,
>
> As someone who's only a few (intensive) months further along the WS path
> than Scott seems to be, that is a beautiful summary. Very much in
> agreement
> with what I've found (but presented with the perspective, I think, of a
> lot
> more experience).
>
> Very helpful to have things summarized like that! Thank you.
>
> - Steve
>
> p.s. Have you considered writing the book that Scott is looking for? :-) I
> certainly spent a lot of time looking for one and didn't find it.
>
> ______________________________________________
> Steve Gruverman, Programmer
> IntelliCare, Inc. | A Medco Health Solutions Company
>
> 500 Southborough Drive | South Portland ME 04106
>
>
> "Brennan Spies" <br...@sbcglobal.net> wrote on 04/29/2008 02:00:01
> AM:
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> That's a tall order. There's lots to say about this space, and it
>> won't be contained in one web page. Can't help you with the Xanax,
>> but I can give you the brief tour of WS in Java. Here goes...
>>
>> 1. At the high level, your first decision is SOAP vs. REST. REST
>> implies POX (plain old XML)--though it's not necessarily the case,
>> that's the way the majority of RESTful services are developed. SOAP
>> is just a message format, but all of the WS-* standards (and there's
>> a lot of them) and WSDL (at least until v.2.0) revolve entirely
>> around using SOAP; hence the perceived complexity because there's
>> more to learn. REST has less structure, so it can be simpler when
>> developing simple web services; however, if you have other
>> requirements, such as security or policy, going with REST could be
>> more difficult and error-prone than SOAP. It's over-simplifying a
>> bit, but the distinction can be summed up as "go with the standards"
>> in SOAP or "roll your own" with REST. Taking a look at some of the
>> more popular web services from Google, Amazon, etc. may give you a
>> better feeling for this.
>>
>> 2. Your second decision is going to be which Web Services stack to
>> use. In Java, the major ones are Apache Axis 2.0, Apache CXF, Spring
>> Web Services, and the JAX-WS reference implementation (on java.net).
>> You'll have to match their features against your requirements to see
>> which one fits you best. There's a fair amount of overlap in
>> features (and even in the 3rd party libs they use), but there are
>> significant differences as well. I'd recommend not using Axis 1.0 at
>> this stage, since it is about 4-5 times slower than the newer stacks
>> under load.
>>
>> 3. JAXB is simply a framework for XML-Java binding, one among many:
>> JiBX, XML Beans, Castor, ADB, etc. Which one you use may be decided
>> by which one(s) the stack in #2 you choose supports (you'll choose
>> JAXB, for example, if you use Sun's JAX-WS reference
>> implementation), but all except JAX-WS RI support more than one
>> binding framework.
>>
>> 4. XML Schema is the standard way of defining XML types in
>> SOAP/WSDL, but there are others. In WSDL 1.2 and 2.0, for example, you
> can(
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl20-altschemalangs/) use Relax NG, but--
>> practically speaking--XML Schema rules the roost here.
>>
>> 5. Most WS frameworks (from #2) support two basic styles of
>> development: top-down (write WSDL, generate Java--WSDL2Java, for
>> instance) and bottom-up (generate WSDL and other artifacts from your
>> Java code). I prefer the first, but bottom up may be simpler if you
>> are just starting out, esp. if you already have code that you are
>> adding a web service to. JSR-181 (JAX-WS) is particularly nice for
>> this approach, since you just add annotations to your existing code.
>>
>> 6. If you must buy a book, don't buy anything that's been published
>> more than a year ago. The landscape has changed a lot in the last
>> year or two. One of my favorites, "J2EE Web Services" by Richard
>> Monson-Haefel, is already out-of-date.
>>
>> Well, that's it for the nickel tour. The brush strokes are pretty
>> broad here, but I hope I've given you a better idea.
>>
>> Brennan
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: stanlick@gmail.com
>> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
>> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:37 PM
>> Subject: The WS Crazy Train!
>>
>> Can someone either provide me a URL for xanax or a site that
>> explains the interplay between SOAP/JAXB/WSDL/Schema/blah, blah,
>> yada. yada? I am trying to figure out what is actually necessary to
>> produce & consume web services in Java and I am hearing that many of
>> these technologies are optional! In fact, today it was decided that
>> WSDL2Java produced too many artifacts and that writing web services
>> could be much simpler. How do RESTful web services play into this
>> mix, and what are the pros/cons to the permutations of ws stacks? I
>> would gladly throw down my AMEX if someone can recommend a good
>> book/resource that might clear this confusion.
>>
>> Peace,
>> --
>> Scott
>> stanlick@gmail.com
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org
Re: The WS Crazy Train!
Posted by SG...@intellicare.com.
Brennan,
As someone who's only a few (intensive) months further along the WS path
than Scott seems to be, that is a beautiful summary. Very much in agreement
with what I've found (but presented with the perspective, I think, of a lot
more experience).
Very helpful to have things summarized like that! Thank you.
- Steve
p.s. Have you considered writing the book that Scott is looking for? :-) I
certainly spent a lot of time looking for one and didn't find it.
______________________________________________
Steve Gruverman, Programmer
IntelliCare, Inc. | A Medco Health Solutions Company
500 Southborough Drive | South Portland ME 04106
"Brennan Spies" <br...@sbcglobal.net> wrote on 04/29/2008 02:00:01
AM:
> Scott,
>
> That's a tall order. There's lots to say about this space, and it
> won't be contained in one web page. Can't help you with the Xanax,
> but I can give you the brief tour of WS in Java. Here goes...
>
> 1. At the high level, your first decision is SOAP vs. REST. REST
> implies POX (plain old XML)--though it's not necessarily the case,
> that's the way the majority of RESTful services are developed. SOAP
> is just a message format, but all of the WS-* standards (and there's
> a lot of them) and WSDL (at least until v.2.0) revolve entirely
> around using SOAP; hence the perceived complexity because there's
> more to learn. REST has less structure, so it can be simpler when
> developing simple web services; however, if you have other
> requirements, such as security or policy, going with REST could be
> more difficult and error-prone than SOAP. It's over-simplifying a
> bit, but the distinction can be summed up as "go with the standards"
> in SOAP or "roll your own" with REST. Taking a look at some of the
> more popular web services from Google, Amazon, etc. may give you a
> better feeling for this.
>
> 2. Your second decision is going to be which Web Services stack to
> use. In Java, the major ones are Apache Axis 2.0, Apache CXF, Spring
> Web Services, and the JAX-WS reference implementation (on java.net).
> You'll have to match their features against your requirements to see
> which one fits you best. There's a fair amount of overlap in
> features (and even in the 3rd party libs they use), but there are
> significant differences as well. I'd recommend not using Axis 1.0 at
> this stage, since it is about 4-5 times slower than the newer stacks
> under load.
>
> 3. JAXB is simply a framework for XML-Java binding, one among many:
> JiBX, XML Beans, Castor, ADB, etc. Which one you use may be decided
> by which one(s) the stack in #2 you choose supports (you'll choose
> JAXB, for example, if you use Sun's JAX-WS reference
> implementation), but all except JAX-WS RI support more than one
> binding framework.
>
> 4. XML Schema is the standard way of defining XML types in
> SOAP/WSDL, but there are others. In WSDL 1.2 and 2.0, for example, you
can(
> http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl20-altschemalangs/) use Relax NG, but--
> practically speaking--XML Schema rules the roost here.
>
> 5. Most WS frameworks (from #2) support two basic styles of
> development: top-down (write WSDL, generate Java--WSDL2Java, for
> instance) and bottom-up (generate WSDL and other artifacts from your
> Java code). I prefer the first, but bottom up may be simpler if you
> are just starting out, esp. if you already have code that you are
> adding a web service to. JSR-181 (JAX-WS) is particularly nice for
> this approach, since you just add annotations to your existing code.
>
> 6. If you must buy a book, don't buy anything that's been published
> more than a year ago. The landscape has changed a lot in the last
> year or two. One of my favorites, "J2EE Web Services" by Richard
> Monson-Haefel, is already out-of-date.
>
> Well, that's it for the nickel tour. The brush strokes are pretty
> broad here, but I hope I've given you a better idea.
>
> Brennan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: stanlick@gmail.com
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:37 PM
> Subject: The WS Crazy Train!
>
> Can someone either provide me a URL for xanax or a site that
> explains the interplay between SOAP/JAXB/WSDL/Schema/blah, blah,
> yada. yada? I am trying to figure out what is actually necessary to
> produce & consume web services in Java and I am hearing that many of
> these technologies are optional! In fact, today it was decided that
> WSDL2Java produced too many artifacts and that writing web services
> could be much simpler. How do RESTful web services play into this
> mix, and what are the pros/cons to the permutations of ws stacks? I
> would gladly throw down my AMEX if someone can recommend a good
> book/resource that might clear this confusion.
>
> Peace,
> --
> Scott
> stanlick@gmail.com
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-user-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: axis-user-help@ws.apache.org
Re: The WS Crazy Train!
Posted by Brennan Spies <br...@sbcglobal.net>.
Scott,
That's a tall order. There's lots to say about this space, and it won't be contained in one web page. Can't help you with the Xanax, but I can give you the brief tour of WS in Java. Here goes...
1. At the high level, your first decision is SOAP vs. REST. REST implies POX (plain old XML)--though it's not necessarily the case, that's the way the majority of RESTful services are developed. SOAP is just a message format, but all of the WS-* standards (and there's a lot of them) and WSDL (at least until v.2.0) revolve entirely around using SOAP; hence the perceived complexity because there's more to learn. REST has less structure, so it can be simpler when developing simple web services; however, if you have other requirements, such as security or policy, going with REST could be more difficult and error-prone than SOAP. It's over-simplifying a bit, but the distinction can be summed up as "go with the standards" in SOAP or "roll your own" with REST. Taking a look at some of the more popular web services from Google, Amazon, etc. may give you a better feeling for this.
2. Your second decision is going to be which Web Services stack to use. In Java, the major ones are Apache Axis 2.0, Apache CXF, Spring Web Services, and the JAX-WS reference implementation (on java.net). You'll have to match their features against your requirements to see which one fits you best. There's a fair amount of overlap in features (and even in the 3rd party libs they use), but there are significant differences as well. I'd recommend not using Axis 1.0 at this stage, since it is about 4-5 times slower than the newer stacks under load.
3. JAXB is simply a framework for XML-Java binding, one among many: JiBX, XML Beans, Castor, ADB, etc. Which one you use may be decided by which one(s) the stack in #2 you choose supports (you'll choose JAXB, for example, if you use Sun's JAX-WS reference implementation), but all except JAX-WS RI support more than one binding framework.
4. XML Schema is the standard way of defining XML types in SOAP/WSDL, but there are others. In WSDL 1.2 and 2.0, for example, you can(http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl20-altschemalangs/) use Relax NG, but--practically speaking--XML Schema rules the roost here.
5. Most WS frameworks (from #2) support two basic styles of development: top-down (write WSDL, generate Java--WSDL2Java, for instance) and bottom-up (generate WSDL and other artifacts from your Java code). I prefer the first, but bottom up may be simpler if you are just starting out, esp. if you already have code that you are adding a web service to. JSR-181 (JAX-WS) is particularly nice for this approach, since you just add annotations to your existing code.
6. If you must buy a book, don't buy anything that's been published more than a year ago. The landscape has changed a lot in the last year or two. One of my favorites, "J2EE Web Services" by Richard Monson-Haefel, is already out-of-date.
Well, that's it for the nickel tour. The brush strokes are pretty broad here, but I hope I've given you a better idea.
Brennan
----- Original Message -----
From: stanlick@gmail.com
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: The WS Crazy Train!
Can someone either provide me a URL for xanax or a site that explains the interplay between SOAP/JAXB/WSDL/Schema/blah, blah, yada. yada? I am trying to figure out what is actually necessary to produce & consume web services in Java and I am hearing that many of these technologies are optional! In fact, today it was decided that WSDL2Java produced too many artifacts and that writing web services could be much simpler. How do RESTful web services play into this mix, and what are the pros/cons to the permutations of ws stacks? I would gladly throw down my AMEX if someone can recommend a good book/resource that might clear this confusion.
Peace,
--
Scott
stanlick@gmail.com