Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

Thanks for the early report, Etch!

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Apache Wiki <wi...@apache.org> wrote:
> + Etch was accepted into Incubator on 2 September 2008.

That's quite a long time in incubation. Let's see what we can do to
help you graduate.

> + - We could acquire a new committer Thomas Marsh to our team

Good to hear that! However, I don't see much involvement (commits,
issues, dev@ posts, etc.) from Thomas after he received committership
in January. Was there some problem or did he just get busy with other
stuff?

More generally, looking over the last quarter in Etch I see ongoing
technical work mostly by Michael Fitzner and Martin Veith but only
occasional input from others and not much focus on community-building.
Do you have plans on how to increase community activity and diversity,
or are you happy with the status quo?

If you need good ideas on community building, see Dan Haywood's recent
post [1] about their work with the Isis podling. There are also people
both at the Incubator and at ComDev with lots of community building
experience that might be able to help on this if you like.

[1] http://markmail.org/message/s2le6gg3wxsa55dz

BR,

Jukka Zitting

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Fwd: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:56 PM
Subject: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by
michaelfitzner)
To: general@incubator.apache.org


Hi,

Thanks for the early report, Etch!

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Apache Wiki <wi...@apache.org> wrote:
> + Etch was accepted into Incubator on 2 September 2008.

That's quite a long time in incubation. Let's see what we can do to
help you graduate.

> + - We could acquire a new committer Thomas Marsh to our team

Good to hear that! However, I don't see much involvement (commits,
issues, dev@ posts, etc.) from Thomas after he received committership
in January. Was there some problem or did he just get busy with other
stuff?

More generally, looking over the last quarter in Etch I see ongoing
technical work mostly by Michael Fitzner and Martin Veith but only
occasional input from others and not much focus on community-building.
Do you have plans on how to increase community activity and diversity,
or are you happy with the status quo?

If you need good ideas on community building, see Dan Haywood's recent
post [1] about their work with the Isis podling. There are also people
both at the Incubator and at ComDev with lots of community building
experience that might be able to help on this if you like.

[1] http://markmail.org/message/s2le6gg3wxsa55dz

BR,

Jukka Zitting

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Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de>]

Not sure about you community worries, but from a far distance it looks like new committers even got added lately.
Looks not too bad for me...
At a certain point in time a project is mature. Guess etch has reached this point and should have long since graduated imo.

LieGrue,
strub



----- Original Message -----
> From: Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org; etch-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)
> 
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>>  On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Jukka Zitting 
> <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  More generally, looking over the last quarter in Etch I see ongoing
>>>  technical work mostly by Michael Fitzner and Martin Veith but only
>>>  occasional input from others and not much focus on community-building.
>>>  Do you have plans on how to increase community activity and diversity,
>>>  or are you happy with the status quo?
>> 
>>  Any thoughts on this from Etch mentors or the PPMC?
> 
> Etch is a slow moving community. AFAICT the code is mostly done, but
> actively maintained. The space Etch operates in is quite crowded, so
> community raising efforts are difficult. The engineers working on such
> code are usually very busy doing other stuff rather than improving the
> library.
> 
> I've tried to contact the most recent voted-in committer, but he has
> yet to respond, and do actual work on Etch.
> 
> The other committers and PPMC members have either jobs that focus on
> implementing things other than directly working with Etch, meaning
> that Etch development only happens when they return to a part that
> uses it. For example the suitable name search is currently undergoing,
> but finding time to complete it is difficult.
> 
> Trying to build a community around a networking stack is difficult,
> especially this one with its history. The original company open
> sourcing Etch disbanded the development team when no diversity was
> present, blowing up the project. I don't blame the company: they have
> to do what is best for them. Unfortunately it did severe damage to the
> community.
> 
> IMO they should have a great community opportunity in the automotive
> industry (the active contributors are from a large 3-letter car
> manufacturer in Germany). My expectation is that this industry (in
> Germany) could expand the community with 3 or 4 committers. Raising
> awareness by publishing an article about Etch in automotive
> engineering magazines should help. I don't expect miracles to happen,
> but if one or two companies start looking into etch, the diversity and
> activity might just increase a bit. I've asked the guys to try to
> write one or two articles in German magazines to raise awareness.
> Unfortunately that has taken quite some time, but what I hear is that
> they are in the final stages.
> 
> I was hoping that the new committer would become active, and that
> graduating Etch would be around the corner. It appears that we need
> other new blood to invigorate the community.
> 
> Martijn
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> 

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AW: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Michael Fitzner <Mi...@bmw-carit.de>]

Hi Jukka,
Thanks for your constructive feedback and the hint to [1]! The establishment of an active and diverse community is currently one of the challenges in the Etch project. The task is not so easy because we can do it just beside our main work! As Martijn already mentioned, we try to publish an article about the Apache Etch Framework for a local (Germany) computer science magazine. Furthermore I think it would be also good to publish some blog-posts e.g. at [2] if possible. Another possibility would be to push Etch also in the Android direction and provide some information how to use it there.

[1] http://markmail.org/message/s2le6gg3wxsa55dz
[2] https://blogs.apache.org

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Martijn Dashorst [mailto:martijn.dashorst@gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Montag, 12. März 2012 12:02
An: general@incubator.apache.org; etch-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

One article worth mentioning:

"Practical experiences on a communication middleware for IP-based in-car networks" [1]

Current in-car communication networks are based on automotive specific technologies like CAN, FlexRay and MOST and use proprietary communication protocols. While CAN and FlexRay come with a signal-based communication paradigm, MOST provides a more sophisticated interface based on "function blocks" to the application programmer. In the next years, we expect IP-based protocols and standard technologies like Ethernet to be deployed for more and more in-car communication tasks. As a result, we need an IP-based communication middleware that provides both signaland function-based interaction paradigms and works for all distributed applications in vehicles. Main challenges are the large variety of embedded devices and operating systems used in a single car in terms of footprint and compute power. Furthermore, it must be possible to migrate existing interface definitions from legacy technologies to the new IP-based solution. In this paper, we propose an IP-based in-car middleware framework based on an open source solution, Apache Etch. We sketch how different, yet interoperable versions of the middleware can be used to construct a scalable system that fits to both small and large devices.
Finally, we identify extensions to Etch that are necessary to qualify the solution for the use in the automotive domain.

COMSWARE '11 Proceedings of the 5th International Conference on Communication System Software and Middleware

[1] http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2016563&dl=ACM&coll=DL&CFID=89538345&CFTOKEN=83544989

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> More generally, looking over the last quarter in Etch I see ongoing 
>>> technical work mostly by Michael Fitzner and Martin Veith but only 
>>> occasional input from others and not much focus on community-building.
>>> Do you have plans on how to increase community activity and 
>>> diversity, or are you happy with the status quo?
>>
>> Any thoughts on this from Etch mentors or the PPMC?
>
> Etch is a slow moving community. AFAICT the code is mostly done, but 
> actively maintained. The space Etch operates in is quite crowded, so 
> community raising efforts are difficult. The engineers working on such 
> code are usually very busy doing other stuff rather than improving the 
> library.
>
> I've tried to contact the most recent voted-in committer, but he has 
> yet to respond, and do actual work on Etch.
>
> The other committers and PPMC members have either jobs that focus on 
> implementing things other than directly working with Etch, meaning 
> that Etch development only happens when they return to a part that 
> uses it. For example the suitable name search is currently undergoing, 
> but finding time to complete it is difficult.
>
> Trying to build a community around a networking stack is difficult, 
> especially this one with its history. The original company open 
> sourcing Etch disbanded the development team when no diversity was 
> present, blowing up the project. I don't blame the company: they have 
> to do what is best for them. Unfortunately it did severe damage to the 
> community.
>
> IMO they should have a great community opportunity in the automotive 
> industry (the active contributors are from a large 3-letter car 
> manufacturer in Germany). My expectation is that this industry (in
> Germany) could expand the community with 3 or 4 committers. Raising 
> awareness by publishing an article about Etch in automotive 
> engineering magazines should help. I don't expect miracles to happen, 
> but if one or two companies start looking into etch, the diversity and 
> activity might just increase a bit. I've asked the guys to try to 
> write one or two articles in German magazines to raise awareness.
> Unfortunately that has taken quite some time, but what I hear is that 
> they are in the final stages.
>
> I was hoping that the new committer would become active, and that 
> graduating Etch would be around the corner. It appears that we need 
> other new blood to invigorate the community.
>
> Martijn



--
Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com

AW: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Michael Fitzner <Mi...@bmw-carit.de>]

Hi Jukka,
Thanks for your constructive feedback and the hint to [1]! The establishment of an active and diverse community is currently one of the challenges in the Etch project. The task is not so easy because we can do it just beside our main work! As Martijn already mentioned, we try to publish an article about the Apache Etch Framework for a local (Germany) computer science magazine. Furthermore I think it would be also good to publish some blog-posts e.g. at [2] if possible. Another possibility would be to push Etch also in the Android direction and provide some information how to use it there.

[1] http://markmail.org/message/s2le6gg3wxsa55dz
[2] https://blogs.apache.org

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Martijn Dashorst [mailto:martijn.dashorst@gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Montag, 12. März 2012 12:02
An: general@incubator.apache.org; etch-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

One article worth mentioning:

"Practical experiences on a communication middleware for IP-based in-car networks" [1]

Current in-car communication networks are based on automotive specific technologies like CAN, FlexRay and MOST and use proprietary communication protocols. While CAN and FlexRay come with a signal-based communication paradigm, MOST provides a more sophisticated interface based on "function blocks" to the application programmer. In the next years, we expect IP-based protocols and standard technologies like Ethernet to be deployed for more and more in-car communication tasks. As a result, we need an IP-based communication middleware that provides both signaland function-based interaction paradigms and works for all distributed applications in vehicles. Main challenges are the large variety of embedded devices and operating systems used in a single car in terms of footprint and compute power. Furthermore, it must be possible to migrate existing interface definitions from legacy technologies to the new IP-based solution. In this paper, we propose an IP-based in-car middleware framework based on an open source solution, Apache Etch. We sketch how different, yet interoperable versions of the middleware can be used to construct a scalable system that fits to both small and large devices.
Finally, we identify extensions to Etch that are necessary to qualify the solution for the use in the automotive domain.

COMSWARE '11 Proceedings of the 5th International Conference on Communication System Software and Middleware

[1] http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2016563&dl=ACM&coll=DL&CFID=89538345&CFTOKEN=83544989

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> More generally, looking over the last quarter in Etch I see ongoing 
>>> technical work mostly by Michael Fitzner and Martin Veith but only 
>>> occasional input from others and not much focus on community-building.
>>> Do you have plans on how to increase community activity and 
>>> diversity, or are you happy with the status quo?
>>
>> Any thoughts on this from Etch mentors or the PPMC?
>
> Etch is a slow moving community. AFAICT the code is mostly done, but 
> actively maintained. The space Etch operates in is quite crowded, so 
> community raising efforts are difficult. The engineers working on such 
> code are usually very busy doing other stuff rather than improving the 
> library.
>
> I've tried to contact the most recent voted-in committer, but he has 
> yet to respond, and do actual work on Etch.
>
> The other committers and PPMC members have either jobs that focus on 
> implementing things other than directly working with Etch, meaning 
> that Etch development only happens when they return to a part that 
> uses it. For example the suitable name search is currently undergoing, 
> but finding time to complete it is difficult.
>
> Trying to build a community around a networking stack is difficult, 
> especially this one with its history. The original company open 
> sourcing Etch disbanded the development team when no diversity was 
> present, blowing up the project. I don't blame the company: they have 
> to do what is best for them. Unfortunately it did severe damage to the 
> community.
>
> IMO they should have a great community opportunity in the automotive 
> industry (the active contributors are from a large 3-letter car 
> manufacturer in Germany). My expectation is that this industry (in
> Germany) could expand the community with 3 or 4 committers. Raising 
> awareness by publishing an article about Etch in automotive 
> engineering magazines should help. I don't expect miracles to happen, 
> but if one or two companies start looking into etch, the diversity and 
> activity might just increase a bit. I've asked the guys to try to 
> write one or two articles in German magazines to raise awareness.
> Unfortunately that has taken quite some time, but what I hear is that 
> they are in the final stages.
>
> I was hoping that the new committer would become active, and that 
> graduating Etch would be around the corner. It appears that we need 
> other new blood to invigorate the community.
>
> Martijn



--
Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com

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Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>]

One article worth mentioning:

"Practical experiences on a communication middleware for IP-based
in-car networks" [1]

Current in-car communication networks are based on automotive specific
technologies like CAN, FlexRay and MOST and use proprietary
communication protocols. While CAN and FlexRay come with a
signal-based communication paradigm, MOST provides a more
sophisticated interface based on "function blocks" to the application
programmer. In the next years, we expect IP-based protocols and
standard technologies like Ethernet to be deployed for more and more
in-car communication tasks. As a result, we need an IP-based
communication middleware that provides both signaland function-based
interaction paradigms and works for all distributed applications in
vehicles. Main challenges are the large variety of embedded devices
and operating systems used in a single car in terms of footprint and
compute power. Furthermore, it must be possible to migrate existing
interface definitions from legacy technologies to the new IP-based
solution. In this paper, we propose an IP-based in-car middleware
framework based on an open source solution, Apache Etch. We sketch how
different, yet interoperable versions of the middleware can be used to
construct a scalable system that fits to both small and large devices.
Finally, we identify extensions to Etch that are necessary to qualify
the solution for the use in the automotive domain.

COMSWARE '11 Proceedings of the 5th International Conference on
Communication System Software and Middleware

[1] http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2016563&dl=ACM&coll=DL&CFID=89538345&CFTOKEN=83544989

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Martijn Dashorst
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> More generally, looking over the last quarter in Etch I see ongoing
>>> technical work mostly by Michael Fitzner and Martin Veith but only
>>> occasional input from others and not much focus on community-building.
>>> Do you have plans on how to increase community activity and diversity,
>>> or are you happy with the status quo?
>>
>> Any thoughts on this from Etch mentors or the PPMC?
>
> Etch is a slow moving community. AFAICT the code is mostly done, but
> actively maintained. The space Etch operates in is quite crowded, so
> community raising efforts are difficult. The engineers working on such
> code are usually very busy doing other stuff rather than improving the
> library.
>
> I've tried to contact the most recent voted-in committer, but he has
> yet to respond, and do actual work on Etch.
>
> The other committers and PPMC members have either jobs that focus on
> implementing things other than directly working with Etch, meaning
> that Etch development only happens when they return to a part that
> uses it. For example the suitable name search is currently undergoing,
> but finding time to complete it is difficult.
>
> Trying to build a community around a networking stack is difficult,
> especially this one with its history. The original company open
> sourcing Etch disbanded the development team when no diversity was
> present, blowing up the project. I don't blame the company: they have
> to do what is best for them. Unfortunately it did severe damage to the
> community.
>
> IMO they should have a great community opportunity in the automotive
> industry (the active contributors are from a large 3-letter car
> manufacturer in Germany). My expectation is that this industry (in
> Germany) could expand the community with 3 or 4 committers. Raising
> awareness by publishing an article about Etch in automotive
> engineering magazines should help. I don't expect miracles to happen,
> but if one or two companies start looking into etch, the diversity and
> activity might just increase a bit. I've asked the guys to try to
> write one or two articles in German magazines to raise awareness.
> Unfortunately that has taken quite some time, but what I hear is that
> they are in the final stages.
>
> I was hoping that the new committer would become active, and that
> graduating Etch would be around the corner. It appears that we need
> other new blood to invigorate the community.
>
> Martijn



-- 
Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com

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Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>]

One article worth mentioning:

"Practical experiences on a communication middleware for IP-based
in-car networks" [1]

Current in-car communication networks are based on automotive specific
technologies like CAN, FlexRay and MOST and use proprietary
communication protocols. While CAN and FlexRay come with a
signal-based communication paradigm, MOST provides a more
sophisticated interface based on "function blocks" to the application
programmer. In the next years, we expect IP-based protocols and
standard technologies like Ethernet to be deployed for more and more
in-car communication tasks. As a result, we need an IP-based
communication middleware that provides both signaland function-based
interaction paradigms and works for all distributed applications in
vehicles. Main challenges are the large variety of embedded devices
and operating systems used in a single car in terms of footprint and
compute power. Furthermore, it must be possible to migrate existing
interface definitions from legacy technologies to the new IP-based
solution. In this paper, we propose an IP-based in-car middleware
framework based on an open source solution, Apache Etch. We sketch how
different, yet interoperable versions of the middleware can be used to
construct a scalable system that fits to both small and large devices.
Finally, we identify extensions to Etch that are necessary to qualify
the solution for the use in the automotive domain.

COMSWARE '11 Proceedings of the 5th International Conference on
Communication System Software and Middleware

[1] http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2016563&dl=ACM&coll=DL&CFID=89538345&CFTOKEN=83544989

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Martijn Dashorst
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> More generally, looking over the last quarter in Etch I see ongoing
>>> technical work mostly by Michael Fitzner and Martin Veith but only
>>> occasional input from others and not much focus on community-building.
>>> Do you have plans on how to increase community activity and diversity,
>>> or are you happy with the status quo?
>>
>> Any thoughts on this from Etch mentors or the PPMC?
>
> Etch is a slow moving community. AFAICT the code is mostly done, but
> actively maintained. The space Etch operates in is quite crowded, so
> community raising efforts are difficult. The engineers working on such
> code are usually very busy doing other stuff rather than improving the
> library.
>
> I've tried to contact the most recent voted-in committer, but he has
> yet to respond, and do actual work on Etch.
>
> The other committers and PPMC members have either jobs that focus on
> implementing things other than directly working with Etch, meaning
> that Etch development only happens when they return to a part that
> uses it. For example the suitable name search is currently undergoing,
> but finding time to complete it is difficult.
>
> Trying to build a community around a networking stack is difficult,
> especially this one with its history. The original company open
> sourcing Etch disbanded the development team when no diversity was
> present, blowing up the project. I don't blame the company: they have
> to do what is best for them. Unfortunately it did severe damage to the
> community.
>
> IMO they should have a great community opportunity in the automotive
> industry (the active contributors are from a large 3-letter car
> manufacturer in Germany). My expectation is that this industry (in
> Germany) could expand the community with 3 or 4 committers. Raising
> awareness by publishing an article about Etch in automotive
> engineering magazines should help. I don't expect miracles to happen,
> but if one or two companies start looking into etch, the diversity and
> activity might just increase a bit. I've asked the guys to try to
> write one or two articles in German magazines to raise awareness.
> Unfortunately that has taken quite some time, but what I hear is that
> they are in the final stages.
>
> I was hoping that the new committer would become active, and that
> graduating Etch would be around the corner. It appears that we need
> other new blood to invigorate the community.
>
> Martijn



-- 
Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com

Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Martijn Dashorst
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So to summarize:
>  - complete suitable name search
>  - check final tasks of graduation list
>  - graduate Etch

Sounds like a plan!

BR,

Jukka Zitting

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Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Given the situation, I wonder how much more value the Incubator can
> give to Etch. It sounds like all the currently active people already
> understand the Apache Way and our policies, and that the only problem
> is that there aren't enough of those people to guarantee that the
> potential Etch PMC will be able to pass release votes or avoid being
> overly dependent on any single committer or company behind them.

That was the plan. The code is maintained, and releases are being cut.
The issue is big enough, sustainable community.

I plan to stay on board with the PMC and provide post graduation
support (provided the Etch guys still want me on board). I am
currently doing the same with Empire DB and Pivot (for example helping
out the Chairs grow into their role).

One of the reasons we added the last committer in December/January,
was to add more active committers. Unfortunately that hasn't resulted
in the desired effect.

The final task prior to graduation is completing the suitable name
search IMO. Once that has been documented, I'll start a graduation
procedure for etch.apache.org.

So to summarize:
 - complete suitable name search
 - check final tasks of graduation list
 - graduate Etch

Martijn

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Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Martijn Dashorst
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Etch is a slow moving community. AFAICT the code is mostly done, but
> actively maintained. The space Etch operates in is quite crowded, so
> community raising efforts are difficult.

Thanks for the extra background!

Given the situation, I wonder how much more value the Incubator can
give to Etch. It sounds like all the currently active people already
understand the Apache Way and our policies, and that the only problem
is that there aren't enough of those people to guarantee that the
potential Etch PMC will be able to pass release votes or avoid being
overly dependent on any single committer or company behind them.

There was some related discussion last year about small but stable
podlings [1]. One of the discussed ideas was that as long as the
community is otherwise healthy and some of the mentors are willing to
stick around to ensure that the project stays on track and remains
able to make releases, there's no compelling reason why the project
should remain indefinitely within the Incubator. Perhaps this is a way
for Etch to graduate unless the community can be expected to grow
within the next quarter or two?

[1] http://markmail.org/message/baforz67nyzwvzaj

BR,

Jukka Zitting

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Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>]

On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> More generally, looking over the last quarter in Etch I see ongoing
>> technical work mostly by Michael Fitzner and Martin Veith but only
>> occasional input from others and not much focus on community-building.
>> Do you have plans on how to increase community activity and diversity,
>> or are you happy with the status quo?
>
> Any thoughts on this from Etch mentors or the PPMC?

Etch is a slow moving community. AFAICT the code is mostly done, but
actively maintained. The space Etch operates in is quite crowded, so
community raising efforts are difficult. The engineers working on such
code are usually very busy doing other stuff rather than improving the
library.

I've tried to contact the most recent voted-in committer, but he has
yet to respond, and do actual work on Etch.

The other committers and PPMC members have either jobs that focus on
implementing things other than directly working with Etch, meaning
that Etch development only happens when they return to a part that
uses it. For example the suitable name search is currently undergoing,
but finding time to complete it is difficult.

Trying to build a community around a networking stack is difficult,
especially this one with its history. The original company open
sourcing Etch disbanded the development team when no diversity was
present, blowing up the project. I don't blame the company: they have
to do what is best for them. Unfortunately it did severe damage to the
community.

IMO they should have a great community opportunity in the automotive
industry (the active contributors are from a large 3-letter car
manufacturer in Germany). My expectation is that this industry (in
Germany) could expand the community with 3 or 4 committers. Raising
awareness by publishing an article about Etch in automotive
engineering magazines should help. I don't expect miracles to happen,
but if one or two companies start looking into etch, the diversity and
activity might just increase a bit. I've asked the guys to try to
write one or two articles in German magazines to raise awareness.
Unfortunately that has taken quite some time, but what I hear is that
they are in the final stages.

I was hoping that the new committer would become active, and that
graduating Etch would be around the corner. It appears that we need
other new blood to invigorate the community.

Martijn

Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>]

On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> More generally, looking over the last quarter in Etch I see ongoing
>> technical work mostly by Michael Fitzner and Martin Veith but only
>> occasional input from others and not much focus on community-building.
>> Do you have plans on how to increase community activity and diversity,
>> or are you happy with the status quo?
>
> Any thoughts on this from Etch mentors or the PPMC?

Etch is a slow moving community. AFAICT the code is mostly done, but
actively maintained. The space Etch operates in is quite crowded, so
community raising efforts are difficult. The engineers working on such
code are usually very busy doing other stuff rather than improving the
library.

I've tried to contact the most recent voted-in committer, but he has
yet to respond, and do actual work on Etch.

The other committers and PPMC members have either jobs that focus on
implementing things other than directly working with Etch, meaning
that Etch development only happens when they return to a part that
uses it. For example the suitable name search is currently undergoing,
but finding time to complete it is difficult.

Trying to build a community around a networking stack is difficult,
especially this one with its history. The original company open
sourcing Etch disbanded the development team when no diversity was
present, blowing up the project. I don't blame the company: they have
to do what is best for them. Unfortunately it did severe damage to the
community.

IMO they should have a great community opportunity in the automotive
industry (the active contributors are from a large 3-letter car
manufacturer in Germany). My expectation is that this industry (in
Germany) could expand the community with 3 or 4 committers. Raising
awareness by publishing an article about Etch in automotive
engineering magazines should help. I don't expect miracles to happen,
but if one or two companies start looking into etch, the diversity and
activity might just increase a bit. I've asked the guys to try to
write one or two articles in German magazines to raise awareness.
Unfortunately that has taken quite some time, but what I hear is that
they are in the final stages.

I was hoping that the new committer would become active, and that
graduating Etch would be around the corner. It appears that we need
other new blood to invigorate the community.

Martijn

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Re: Etch status (Was: [Incubator Wiki] Update of "March2012" by michaelfitzner)

[Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> More generally, looking over the last quarter in Etch I see ongoing
> technical work mostly by Michael Fitzner and Martin Veith but only
> occasional input from others and not much focus on community-building.
> Do you have plans on how to increase community activity and diversity,
> or are you happy with the status quo?

Any thoughts on this from Etch mentors or the PPMC?

BR,

Jukka Zitting

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