You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@sentry.apache.org by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> on 2015/09/30 16:03:13 UTC
Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Hi folks,
I had the chance to meet and talk with Sravya today at ApacheCon and
talk about the project, and I wanted to bring that conversation back
to the list. Others should feel free to weigh in, but mainly didn't
want to just be discussing this in isolation.
First, we discussed how the project has changed over the past few
months, and I think that we agreed that we think it's moving in the
right direction, with a lot more obvious discussions happening on the
dev list, but still plenty of room to improve.
We also talked about some things we can do going forward to move the
project further along, and walked away with some action items.
1. Start writing up quick summaries from Hangouts/phone calls that are
happening regarding the project, so that everyone has some visibility
into what is happening. We also discussed the possibility of the
project holding a regularly scheduled hangout or IRC meeting that
folks can attend.
2. Reach out to mentors for proactive help on growing the community.
(I explicitly volunteered Joe Brockmeier and myself to jump on a
hangout/webex/IRC/ML Discussion to see if we can help in this regard)
We also talked about the graduation process, and talked about what
needs to happen in that process when we are ready for it. We briefly
touched on project diversity, and what we both viewed as the current
status of the project.
--David
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Sravya Tirukkovalur <sr...@cloudera.com>.
I think Sentry community has made great progress in both code contributions
as well as community building. We have made 5 releases each driven by a
different Release manager, added 7 committers from diverse organizations.
Our PPMC is quite diverse too. And I think we have a healthy community
which fosters new contributors to have sustained contributions and becoming
committers eventually. I think we also have done good job community
building and evangelizing. We had presence at many major conferences
including ApacheCon, Strata. We also were involved in several meetups
across the globe. Recently, last week, we had presence at the Open Source
Day Hackathon at the Grace Hopper Conference too spreading our open source
love. And we are continuously looking for opportunities to grow and be a
welcoming place for all contributors.
Our mentors have stepped up previously to identify some mistakes and make
some suggestions. And I think community has executed on those suggestions
[1][2][3] We will continue executing even after graduation. To sum up, I
believe we have come a long way and are ready[4][5][6] to graduate.
I can start a graduation discussion with a proposed resolution if you all
agree it is the time. Would love to hear from David and Joe too.
[1]:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SENTRY/Project+Status+Reports
(See July, August and September reports this year)
[2] Examples of discussions on dev list:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-sentry-dev/201510.mbox/%3CB957EE1AFDEBFD4B934BCF11804A23DC032CA85E%40shsmsx102.ccr.corp.intel.com%3E
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-sentry-dev/201509.mbox/%3CCACMN7iwVZ%3Drj2NMsHWqL9MHp%3DzopM0Aso2a0Qtkyt05xhibDkA%40mail.gmail.com%3E
[3]: Project roadmap:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SENTRY/Sentry+Roadmap+and+ideas
[4]: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#checklist
[5]:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Graduating+from+the+Incubator
[6]: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/sentry.html
Thanks!
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org> wrote:
> Sravya, David -
>
> Could either one of you outline what objective criteria is yet to be met by
> the project so that it can be ready for graduation? Pardon my lack of
> understanding of something that may be obvious to you, but I see a fully
> functional project community that is trying their best to make progress
> while doing a great job at self governance. What am I missing?
>
> Regards,
> Arvind Prabhakar
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:22 AM, Sravya Tirukkovalur <sr...@cloudera.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for writing this up David! It was great meeting you yesterday, and
> > it is always good to get some face time with the community too!
> >
> > Thanks for acknowledging the progress and giving some valuable
> suggestions
> > on community building and transparency!
> >
> > I will follow up on the action items in separate email threads once I get
> > back home from the conference.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi folks,
> > >
> > > I had the chance to meet and talk with Sravya today at ApacheCon and
> > > talk about the project, and I wanted to bring that conversation back
> > > to the list. Others should feel free to weigh in, but mainly didn't
> > > want to just be discussing this in isolation.
> > >
> > > First, we discussed how the project has changed over the past few
> > > months, and I think that we agreed that we think it's moving in the
> > > right direction, with a lot more obvious discussions happening on the
> > > dev list, but still plenty of room to improve.
> > >
> > > We also talked about some things we can do going forward to move the
> > > project further along, and walked away with some action items.
> > >
> > > 1. Start writing up quick summaries from Hangouts/phone calls that are
> > > happening regarding the project, so that everyone has some visibility
> > > into what is happening. We also discussed the possibility of the
> > > project holding a regularly scheduled hangout or IRC meeting that
> > > folks can attend.
> > >
> > 2. Reach out to mentors for proactive help on growing the community.
> > > (I explicitly volunteered Joe Brockmeier and myself to jump on a
> > > hangout/webex/IRC/ML Discussion to see if we can help in this regard)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > We also talked about the graduation process, and talked about what
> > > needs to happen in that process when we are ready for it. We briefly
> > > touched on project diversity, and what we both viewed as the current
> > > status of the project.
> > >
> > > --David
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sravya Tirukkovalur
> >
>
--
Sravya Tirukkovalur
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org>.
Indeed. I've mentioned similar recently (board status report discussions).
afaict this is ready to go...
Patrick
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org> wrote:
> Sravya, David -
>
> Could either one of you outline what objective criteria is yet to be met by
> the project so that it can be ready for graduation? Pardon my lack of
> understanding of something that may be obvious to you, but I see a fully
> functional project community that is trying their best to make progress
> while doing a great job at self governance. What am I missing?
>
> Regards,
> Arvind Prabhakar
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:22 AM, Sravya Tirukkovalur <sr...@cloudera.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for writing this up David! It was great meeting you yesterday, and
> > it is always good to get some face time with the community too!
> >
> > Thanks for acknowledging the progress and giving some valuable
> suggestions
> > on community building and transparency!
> >
> > I will follow up on the action items in separate email threads once I get
> > back home from the conference.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi folks,
> > >
> > > I had the chance to meet and talk with Sravya today at ApacheCon and
> > > talk about the project, and I wanted to bring that conversation back
> > > to the list. Others should feel free to weigh in, but mainly didn't
> > > want to just be discussing this in isolation.
> > >
> > > First, we discussed how the project has changed over the past few
> > > months, and I think that we agreed that we think it's moving in the
> > > right direction, with a lot more obvious discussions happening on the
> > > dev list, but still plenty of room to improve.
> > >
> > > We also talked about some things we can do going forward to move the
> > > project further along, and walked away with some action items.
> > >
> > > 1. Start writing up quick summaries from Hangouts/phone calls that are
> > > happening regarding the project, so that everyone has some visibility
> > > into what is happening. We also discussed the possibility of the
> > > project holding a regularly scheduled hangout or IRC meeting that
> > > folks can attend.
> > >
> > 2. Reach out to mentors for proactive help on growing the community.
> > > (I explicitly volunteered Joe Brockmeier and myself to jump on a
> > > hangout/webex/IRC/ML Discussion to see if we can help in this regard)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > We also talked about the graduation process, and talked about what
> > > needs to happen in that process when we are ready for it. We briefly
> > > touched on project diversity, and what we both viewed as the current
> > > status of the project.
> > >
> > > --David
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sravya Tirukkovalur
> >
>
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
On Mon, Nov 2, 2015, at 02:05 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> Thanks for the explanation Joe. It seems like you are suggesting a
> process
> that you have seen work in the past and that is great. But every project
> is
> different and not every project community will adopt the same process.
> Hence I think this is not a valid ask.
Every "project" is not my concern. My concern is giving a thumbs up to a
project and saying "this is ready to be a self-governing and
self-perpetuating TLP at Apache where all people have a level playing
ground to contribute."
I don't see that with Sentry. The process currently seems
non-transparent to me, and non-friendly to people currently not in the
community.
> If I extrapolate or read between the lines, I feel another issue being
> pointed out or which has been eluded to in the past is - who decides
> which
> Jiras should be fixed, what features to create etc, specially when they
> show up as Jira issues directly with patches that follow soon. It seems
> that in some ways the lack of using mailing lists directly for discussion
> is linked to this behavior of filing issues and fixing them rapidly, as
> if following a roadmap that the community does not have control over. Please
> pardon me if my interpretation/understanding of the issue is not right.
> But if it is right, then I do want to say that - that too is not an issue in
> my opinion at all. And here is why:
So, basically you're saying "yes, direction for Sentry is being guided
outside of Apache, but so what?"
> When someone files a Jira, they are inviting the entire community to
> comment on it and provide feedback. If it is not in the interest of the
> project, I do believe that responsible members of the community will be
> quick to bring that out for discussion and even Veto it if necessary. If
> that is not happening, it is not an issue with lack of community
> participation, but rather it is an indicator of a project team that knows
> where the gaps are and understands how to go about filling them
> intuitively. I know this because I too have been on the side of a project
> much like Sentry - which was accused of not having a diverse community,
> lack of email communication, and overload of Jira issues, and possibly
> being guided by a silent hand that was not open to the community. Those
> were wrong and misplaced concerns, and the project has always behaved in
> the same way - even till today.
Who is this project team of which you speak?
Sorry, but no - when someone files a Jira, they're inviting people
already involved in Sentry development to comment on it and provide
feedback. If you're saying "hey, if somebody files a Jira and someone
else objects, we'll listen" - that's great.
If you're saying "this process is scalable and friendly to outsiders who
might want to become part of the Sentry community, who are outside the
current development team(s)," I strongly disagree. However, this is the
standard that Apache projects should be held to - not merely "existing
contributors/PMC members can provide feedback and object" but "newcomers
can follow development and become involved without unreasonable
barriers."
> Going back to Sentry - I feel that the project team is desperately trying
> to mend their ways to accommodate mentor requests but I don't think they
> can, despite their best intentions. The whole idea of hangouts and calls
> for the community seems like an unnecessary attempt at building community
> when in fact they have a great community to begin with! The project was
> functioning great as it was before, but our lack of appreciation for
> their process has led to these efforts which I don't think are helping at all.
> In fact these could be more damaging than before.
Basically, "we're happy with Sentry the way it was before it came to
Apache, why can't we be an Apache TLP without changing?!"
I think it's fair to ask at this point why Sentry wants so badly to be
an Apache project? You're basically saying "we know how other Apache
projects work, but we don't want to do that."
> Yes, we as mentors can guide them to a certain behavior but if what they
> are doing works for them, complies with the Apache Way, then who are we
> to question it?
My point is, I don't believe that it does comply with the Apache Way.
Sentry does not seem to be placing "community over code" in its
processes.
Technical decisions are not being made publicly. You've pretty much
admitted as much here.
We basically seem to be at an impasse. I can't in good conscience vote
+1 or even +0 for Sentry to graduate at this point. I think at this
point I'd like to open a discussion on general@ to see what other folks
in the IPMC think -- if I'm way off base, then you can hold a vote and
Sentry can graduate. But I'm now strongly -1 on Sentry graduating, and I
don't see any value in continuing to offer advice or assistance that is
unwanted.
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org>.
Thanks for the explanation Joe. It seems like you are suggesting a process
that you have seen work in the past and that is great. But every project is
different and not every project community will adopt the same process.
Hence I think this is not a valid ask.
I too feel that Mailing Lists are the life blood of communities and must be
utilized for all communication. However, where I respectfully disagree with
you (and perhaps with David) is that I don't think a direct email holds
more weight than a Jira notification. If I open a Jira and provide my
input/thoughts/and even a patch on it, it is the same to me as having an
open discussion and then taking it to Jira. It is just a different way of
communicating - wherein the Mailing List is the vehicle that connects all
interested parties in the community. I would argue that keeping the
technical discussion on the Jira is much better/cleaner than having it on
the mailing list - that is just my view, and something I have done in the
projects I have worked on.
If I extrapolate or read between the lines, I feel another issue being
pointed out or which has been eluded to in the past is - who decides which
Jiras should be fixed, what features to create etc, specially when they
show up as Jira issues directly with patches that follow soon. It seems
that in some ways the lack of using mailing lists directly for discussion
is linked to this behavior of filing issues and fixing them rapidly, as if
following a roadmap that the community does not have control over. Please
pardon me if my interpretation/understanding of the issue is not right. But
if it is right, then I do want to say that - that too is not an issue in my
opinion at all. And here is why:
When someone files a Jira, they are inviting the entire community to
comment on it and provide feedback. If it is not in the interest of the
project, I do believe that responsible members of the community will be
quick to bring that out for discussion and even Veto it if necessary. If
that is not happening, it is not an issue with lack of community
participation, but rather it is an indicator of a project team that knows
where the gaps are and understands how to go about filling them
intuitively. I know this because I too have been on the side of a project -
much like Sentry - which was accused of not having a diverse community,
lack of email communication, and overload of Jira issues, and possibly
being guided by a silent hand that was not open to the community. Those
were wrong and misplaced concerns, and the project has always behaved in
the same way - even till today.
Going back to Sentry - I feel that the project team is desperately trying
to mend their ways to accommodate mentor requests but I don't think they
can, despite their best intentions. The whole idea of hangouts and calls
for the community seems like an unnecessary attempt at building community
when in fact they have a great community to begin with! The project was
functioning great as it was before, but our lack of appreciation for their
process has led to these efforts which I don't think are helping at all. In
fact these could be more damaging than before.
Yes, we as mentors can guide them to a certain behavior but if what they
are doing works for them, complies with the Apache Way, then who are we to
question it?
Last but not the least, I do agree that there were process mistakes made in
the past around release management. Those have since been taken care off by
the project team and addressed for subsequent releases. If that were a
gating criteria, I think they are good to go.
Regards,
Arvind Prabhakar
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015, at 04:59 PM, Lenni Kuff wrote:
> > Thanks for all the comments. Based on the previous feedback, we have
> > tried
> > to bring any offline discussions back to the dev list and have been using
> > the dev list as the forum for any decision making (as David pointed out).
> > In addition, Sravya has organized a regular monthly Google hangout [1] to
> > help facilitate discussions which may be easier to have face-to-face/over
> > the phone. The hangout will be open for anyone to join and all meeting
> > notes will be posted back the dev mailing list.
>
> "Have tried" is not the same as actually doing, nor am I comfortable at
> this stage saying "yes, as a mentor I feel this group has adopted best
> practices from Apache and is going to continue doing this on its own
> post-graduation."
>
> "Sravya has organized a regular monthly Google hangout" not quite.
> Sravya has sent out an email that appears to have gone directly to VOTE
> (no DISCUSS) for a 30-minute hangout.
>
> Note that this was about a week ago, and none of these hangouts have
> actually happened - so it's impossible to judge its effectiveness and
> describing it as "regular" at this point is a bit early.
>
> (As a side note, as much as I prefer discussions happen on a mailing
> list - if you're going to do a real-time conversation, I am not sure 30
> minutes is sufficient. At least in my experience, it usually takes ~5
> minutes for a distributed team to actually join a call and get started,
> and if you have any amount of discussion at all it would take some
> ruthless efficiency to get through a discussion *and* have time for an
> open floor for newcomers to ask questions.)
>
> > I apologize, but it's still bit unclear to me - based on the remaining
> > criteria you outlined - specifically what we still need to accomplish
> > before graduation.
>
> So - the discussion at ApacheCon happened, what, about a month ago? The
> types of things we're pointing out are not just checkboxes for the
> project to tick off, but fundamental practices we need to see in order
> to say "yes, this project is going to behave like an Apache project
> after graduation."
>
> Is Sentry producing code? Yes.
> Is Sentry producing releases? Yes.
> Is Sentry's infrastructure (Web site, Jira, mailing lists, and so on) in
> order? Yes.*
>
> All great!
>
> The tough one: Is Sentry creating an open and diverse community that
> allows anyone to participate? Right now, I don't think Sentry is there.
> What I see right now is a podling that has had a fair amount of
> communication about development out of the public eye and/or in channels
> that are difficult to join for the public at large.
>
> David and I have given feedback on steps Sentry can take to remedy this.
> What Sentry needs to accomplish now is to follow through on this and
> build a track record there. (See also [1])
>
> * Pretty sure. I did a quick cursory glance and things look good.
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/community.html#communication
>
> Best,
>
> jzb
> --
> Joe Brockmeier
> jzb@zonker.net
> Twitter: @jzb
> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
>
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015, at 04:59 PM, Lenni Kuff wrote:
> Thanks for all the comments. Based on the previous feedback, we have
> tried
> to bring any offline discussions back to the dev list and have been using
> the dev list as the forum for any decision making (as David pointed out).
> In addition, Sravya has organized a regular monthly Google hangout [1] to
> help facilitate discussions which may be easier to have face-to-face/over
> the phone. The hangout will be open for anyone to join and all meeting
> notes will be posted back the dev mailing list.
"Have tried" is not the same as actually doing, nor am I comfortable at
this stage saying "yes, as a mentor I feel this group has adopted best
practices from Apache and is going to continue doing this on its own
post-graduation."
"Sravya has organized a regular monthly Google hangout" not quite.
Sravya has sent out an email that appears to have gone directly to VOTE
(no DISCUSS) for a 30-minute hangout.
Note that this was about a week ago, and none of these hangouts have
actually happened - so it's impossible to judge its effectiveness and
describing it as "regular" at this point is a bit early.
(As a side note, as much as I prefer discussions happen on a mailing
list - if you're going to do a real-time conversation, I am not sure 30
minutes is sufficient. At least in my experience, it usually takes ~5
minutes for a distributed team to actually join a call and get started,
and if you have any amount of discussion at all it would take some
ruthless efficiency to get through a discussion *and* have time for an
open floor for newcomers to ask questions.)
> I apologize, but it's still bit unclear to me - based on the remaining
> criteria you outlined - specifically what we still need to accomplish
> before graduation.
So - the discussion at ApacheCon happened, what, about a month ago? The
types of things we're pointing out are not just checkboxes for the
project to tick off, but fundamental practices we need to see in order
to say "yes, this project is going to behave like an Apache project
after graduation."
Is Sentry producing code? Yes.
Is Sentry producing releases? Yes.
Is Sentry's infrastructure (Web site, Jira, mailing lists, and so on) in
order? Yes.*
All great!
The tough one: Is Sentry creating an open and diverse community that
allows anyone to participate? Right now, I don't think Sentry is there.
What I see right now is a podling that has had a fair amount of
communication about development out of the public eye and/or in channels
that are difficult to join for the public at large.
David and I have given feedback on steps Sentry can take to remedy this.
What Sentry needs to accomplish now is to follow through on this and
build a track record there. (See also [1])
* Pretty sure. I did a quick cursory glance and things look good.
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/community.html#communication
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Lenni Kuff <ls...@cloudera.com>.
Thanks for all the comments. Based on the previous feedback, we have tried
to bring any offline discussions back to the dev list and have been using
the dev list as the forum for any decision making (as David pointed out).
In addition, Sravya has organized a regular monthly Google hangout [1] to
help facilitate discussions which may be easier to have face-to-face/over
the phone. The hangout will be open for anyone to join and all meeting
notes will be posted back the dev mailing list.
I apologize, but it's still bit unclear to me - based on the remaining
criteria you outlined - specifically what we still need to accomplish
before graduation.
Thanks,
Lenni
[1] -
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201510.mbox/%3CCACMN7iz5ejwqSpk33ai%3DUHzq0YB5JO_GXVQ%3DAiSVwtezo2%3DPvw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015, at 03:29 PM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> > Thanks for the explanation David.
> >
> > The concern that Joe and I raised several months back is about where
> > > project direction and other decisions are being set.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Work was being done, reviews happening in public, but there didn't
> > > seem to be any discussion on future direction of the project, new
> > > features, new integrations. They'd show up as bugs in Jira, and then
> > > code started appearing.
> >
> >
> > While I understand the concerns described in your mail, I feel that these
> > are rooted in your expectations and not necessarily a problem with the
> > community/project. I have, for example, worked on projects where a large
> > number of ideas and discussions started on JIRA and not the mailing
> > lists... Sqoop, Oozie, Flume, and even Hadoop projects are thriving
> > examples of that. Sentry leans that way too, and I see nothing wrong with
> > that approach. Note that discussions on JIRA do get back to the mailing
> > list, albeit in a different format than a direct email.
> >
> > Projects like these typically have ad-hoc/organic evolution. They do not
> > necessarily have a master plan for setting the direction beyond the basic
> > idea of their mission. As long as the project is seeing development and
> > adding value to it's user community, I think it is doing it's job well.
> >
> > When Sravya and I were talking in Budapest, she indicated that there
> > > were a number of Hangouts/phone calls happening where things were
> > > being discussed, and potentially even being decided. I didn't know
> > > these were taking place. I asked that at a minimum that folks bring
> > > back discussions to the mailing list. (See email from end of
> > > September) I also suggested that maybe instead of 2-5 people going off
> > > and setting up a hangout or conference call that the project have it's
> > > own call, known to everyone, with open invites so that others could
> > > attend, and meeting notes kept.
> >
> > (N
> > Lots of projects have local meetups that don't get talked about on the
> > mailing list. I agree that those should be advertised on the mailing list
> > and care must be taken to ensure those who are interested can attend. I
> > feel the same way for hangouts and phone calls. I feel that the Sentry
> > community is committed to doing this as openly as possible and bringing
> > back the discussions to the mailing lists, thanks to your nudging on
> > this.
> >
> > All that aside, I do want to go back to my original question for you: is
> > there an objective criteria that this project must meet before it can
> > graduate? I would love to have that outlined crisply so that I can do my
> > job as a mentor to help them get there.
>
> Not speaking for David, but for myself:
>
> - Preferably, discussions would happen on the mailing list and enable
> people not already involved in Sentry development to become involved and
> participate.
>
> - Decisions would not be taken off list, period.
>
> - If the project wishes to do its work in Hangouts or phone meetings,
> then it needs to advertise those ahead of time and make it possible for
> others to participate. Notes from those meetings need to make it back to
> the mailing list and it needs to be possible for others to participate
> equally if they can't make real-time meetings.
>
> (Note, I don't feel what I've bulleted out is dramatically different
> from what David is saying. I'm not sure how his examples are
> non-objective.)
>
> Best,
>
> jzb
> --
> Joe Brockmeier
> jzb@zonker.net
> Twitter: @jzb
> http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
>
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015, at 03:29 PM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> Thanks for the explanation David.
>
> The concern that Joe and I raised several months back is about where
> > project direction and other decisions are being set.
>
>
>
>
> > Work was being done, reviews happening in public, but there didn't
> > seem to be any discussion on future direction of the project, new
> > features, new integrations. They'd show up as bugs in Jira, and then
> > code started appearing.
>
>
> While I understand the concerns described in your mail, I feel that these
> are rooted in your expectations and not necessarily a problem with the
> community/project. I have, for example, worked on projects where a large
> number of ideas and discussions started on JIRA and not the mailing
> lists... Sqoop, Oozie, Flume, and even Hadoop projects are thriving
> examples of that. Sentry leans that way too, and I see nothing wrong with
> that approach. Note that discussions on JIRA do get back to the mailing
> list, albeit in a different format than a direct email.
>
> Projects like these typically have ad-hoc/organic evolution. They do not
> necessarily have a master plan for setting the direction beyond the basic
> idea of their mission. As long as the project is seeing development and
> adding value to it's user community, I think it is doing it's job well.
>
> When Sravya and I were talking in Budapest, she indicated that there
> > were a number of Hangouts/phone calls happening where things were
> > being discussed, and potentially even being decided. I didn't know
> > these were taking place. I asked that at a minimum that folks bring
> > back discussions to the mailing list. (See email from end of
> > September) I also suggested that maybe instead of 2-5 people going off
> > and setting up a hangout or conference call that the project have it's
> > own call, known to everyone, with open invites so that others could
> > attend, and meeting notes kept.
>
> (N
> Lots of projects have local meetups that don't get talked about on the
> mailing list. I agree that those should be advertised on the mailing list
> and care must be taken to ensure those who are interested can attend. I
> feel the same way for hangouts and phone calls. I feel that the Sentry
> community is committed to doing this as openly as possible and bringing
> back the discussions to the mailing lists, thanks to your nudging on
> this.
>
> All that aside, I do want to go back to my original question for you: is
> there an objective criteria that this project must meet before it can
> graduate? I would love to have that outlined crisply so that I can do my
> job as a mentor to help them get there.
Not speaking for David, but for myself:
- Preferably, discussions would happen on the mailing list and enable
people not already involved in Sentry development to become involved and
participate.
- Decisions would not be taken off list, period.
- If the project wishes to do its work in Hangouts or phone meetings,
then it needs to advertise those ahead of time and make it possible for
others to participate. Notes from those meetings need to make it back to
the mailing list and it needs to be possible for others to participate
equally if they can't make real-time meetings.
(Note, I don't feel what I've bulleted out is dramatically different
from what David is saying. I'm not sure how his examples are
non-objective.)
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org>.
Thanks for the explanation David.
The concern that Joe and I raised several months back is about where
> project direction and other decisions are being set.
> Work was being done, reviews happening in public, but there didn't
> seem to be any discussion on future direction of the project, new
> features, new integrations. They'd show up as bugs in Jira, and then
> code started appearing.
While I understand the concerns described in your mail, I feel that these
are rooted in your expectations and not necessarily a problem with the
community/project. I have, for example, worked on projects where a large
number of ideas and discussions started on JIRA and not the mailing
lists... Sqoop, Oozie, Flume, and even Hadoop projects are thriving
examples of that. Sentry leans that way too, and I see nothing wrong with
that approach. Note that discussions on JIRA do get back to the mailing
list, albeit in a different format than a direct email.
Projects like these typically have ad-hoc/organic evolution. They do not
necessarily have a master plan for setting the direction beyond the basic
idea of their mission. As long as the project is seeing development and
adding value to it's user community, I think it is doing it's job well.
When Sravya and I were talking in Budapest, she indicated that there
> were a number of Hangouts/phone calls happening where things were
> being discussed, and potentially even being decided. I didn't know
> these were taking place. I asked that at a minimum that folks bring
> back discussions to the mailing list. (See email from end of
> September) I also suggested that maybe instead of 2-5 people going off
> and setting up a hangout or conference call that the project have it's
> own call, known to everyone, with open invites so that others could
> attend, and meeting notes kept.
Lots of projects have local meetups that don't get talked about on the
mailing list. I agree that those should be advertised on the mailing list
and care must be taken to ensure those who are interested can attend. I
feel the same way for hangouts and phone calls. I feel that the Sentry
community is committed to doing this as openly as possible and bringing
back the discussions to the mailing lists, thanks to your nudging on this.
All that aside, I do want to go back to my original question for you: is
there an objective criteria that this project must meet before it can
graduate? I would love to have that outlined crisply so that I can do my
job as a mentor to help them get there.
Regards,
Arvind Prabhakar
On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 4:31 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> Hi Arvind and Patrick,
>
> Sorry for the lag, I've been traveling internationally a lot, and lost
> sight of this thread.
>
> The concern that Joe and I raised several months back is about where
> project direction and other decisions are being set.
>
> Work was being done, reviews happening in public, but there didn't
> seem to be any discussion on future direction of the project, new
> features, new integrations. They'd show up as bugs in Jira, and then
> code started appearing.
>
> There's been some change since those concerns were raised. [1][2]are
> nice examples.
>
> When Sravya and I were talking in Budapest, she indicated that there
> were a number of Hangouts/phone calls happening where things were
> being discussed, and potentially even being decided. I didn't know
> these were taking place. I asked that at a minimum that folks bring
> back discussions to the mailing list. (See email from end of
> September) I also suggested that maybe instead of 2-5 people going off
> and setting up a hangout or conference call that the project have it's
> own call, known to everyone, with open invites so that others could
> attend, and meeting notes kept.
>
>
> --David
>
>
> [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201508.mbox/%3cCACMN7iyScd91SPqgAEb+WRe1R0mv-uBCJ0TJ6gPdEcy3HWp6hg@mail.gmail.com%3e
> [2]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201508.mbox/%3cCACMN7iyPyq3zgMm93w32Q6z6Ka=eqpyr6GqqxF_-mc4R+EFyDQ@mail.gmail.com%3e
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > Sravya, David -
> >
> > Could either one of you outline what objective criteria is yet to be met
> by
> > the project so that it can be ready for graduation? Pardon my lack of
> > understanding of something that may be obvious to you, but I see a fully
> > functional project community that is trying their best to make progress
> > while doing a great job at self governance. What am I missing?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Arvind Prabhakar
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:22 AM, Sravya Tirukkovalur <sravya@cloudera.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for writing this up David! It was great meeting you yesterday,
> and
> >> it is always good to get some face time with the community too!
> >>
> >> Thanks for acknowledging the progress and giving some valuable
> suggestions
> >> on community building and transparency!
> >>
> >> I will follow up on the action items in separate email threads once I
> get
> >> back home from the conference.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi folks,
> >> >
> >> > I had the chance to meet and talk with Sravya today at ApacheCon and
> >> > talk about the project, and I wanted to bring that conversation back
> >> > to the list. Others should feel free to weigh in, but mainly didn't
> >> > want to just be discussing this in isolation.
> >> >
> >> > First, we discussed how the project has changed over the past few
> >> > months, and I think that we agreed that we think it's moving in the
> >> > right direction, with a lot more obvious discussions happening on the
> >> > dev list, but still plenty of room to improve.
> >> >
> >> > We also talked about some things we can do going forward to move the
> >> > project further along, and walked away with some action items.
> >> >
> >> > 1. Start writing up quick summaries from Hangouts/phone calls that are
> >> > happening regarding the project, so that everyone has some visibility
> >> > into what is happening. We also discussed the possibility of the
> >> > project holding a regularly scheduled hangout or IRC meeting that
> >> > folks can attend.
> >> >
> >> 2. Reach out to mentors for proactive help on growing the community.
> >> > (I explicitly volunteered Joe Brockmeier and myself to jump on a
> >> > hangout/webex/IRC/ML Discussion to see if we can help in this regard)
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> > We also talked about the graduation process, and talked about what
> >> > needs to happen in that process when we are ready for it. We briefly
> >> > touched on project diversity, and what we both viewed as the current
> >> > status of the project.
> >> >
> >> > --David
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sravya Tirukkovalur
> >>
>
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Sravya Tirukkovalur <sr...@cloudera.com>.
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:33 AM, Sravya Tirukkovalur <sr...@cloudera.com>
wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 4:31 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
>> Hi Arvind and Patrick,
>>
>> Sorry for the lag, I've been traveling internationally a lot, and lost
>> sight of this thread.
>>
>> The concern that Joe and I raised several months back is about where
>> project direction and other decisions are being set.
>>
>> Work was being done, reviews happening in public, but there didn't
>> seem to be any discussion on future direction of the project, new
>> features, new integrations. They'd show up as bugs in Jira, and then
>> code started appearing.
>>
>> There's been some change since those concerns were raised. [1][2]are
>> nice examples.
>>
>> When Sravya and I were talking in Budapest, she indicated that there
>> were a number of Hangouts/phone calls happening where things were
>> being discussed, and potentially even being decided. I didn't know
>> these were taking place. I asked that at a minimum that folks bring
>> back discussions to the mailing list. (See email from end of
>> September) I also suggested that maybe instead of 2-5 people going off
>> and setting up a hangout or conference call that the project have it's
>> own call, known to everyone, with open invites so that others could
>> attend, and meeting notes kept.
>>
>>
> David,
>
> I think I should make it clear this interpretation is just way
> extrapolated from the conversation we had. I do not know what exact wording
> I used, but in no way it was supposed to mean "potentially even being
> decided". We were brainstorming what else can we do to build community and
> facilitate communication.
>
> A few times people reached out to me directly if they require quick and
> high bandwidth feedback, it has mostly been around a particular comment on
> RB on which they are working on. And even in those cases, the clarified
> version is put on the review board and communication is continued on the
> jira/RB. I did prompt them to ask on public channel the next time. I
> personally thought I was helping them by being available when they needed.
> But I thought your idea of having scheduled hangouts might help so that
> people who might be hesitant to reach out directly or ask on dev list to
> ask questions. But if answering people's questions when they reach out was
> not an Apache Way, I apologize for it. It will entirely be my mistake.
>
>
>
I am sure the interpretation was not intentional, but thought it was
necessary for me to clarify. Thanks again for acknowledging the efforts
community is putting in!
Also, I do believe having too much restrictions on having one on one
conversations might be counter productive for the community, thats just my
opinion. I agree with CS50[1] in the maturity model that all important
discussions should happen on public channel. And that we should bring back
the conversations to the public channel when ever there is any private
discussion which can impact the community. But not sure if *all*
discussions should be required to be brought back to the list. How would we
enforce this if we have conversations with many different people in
conferences and meetups? Have every one document each 1:1 interaction?
[1]:
https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html#fnref-d9e7a517f046358463f038f3830fef171e69f78b
>> --David
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201508.mbox/%3cCACMN7iyScd91SPqgAEb+WRe1R0mv-uBCJ0TJ6gPdEcy3HWp6hg@mail.gmail.com%3e
>> [2]
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201508.mbox/%3cCACMN7iyPyq3zgMm93w32Q6z6Ka=eqpyr6GqqxF_-mc4R+EFyDQ@mail.gmail.com%3e
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> > Sravya, David -
>> >
>> > Could either one of you outline what objective criteria is yet to be
>> met by
>> > the project so that it can be ready for graduation? Pardon my lack of
>> > understanding of something that may be obvious to you, but I see a fully
>> > functional project community that is trying their best to make progress
>> > while doing a great job at self governance. What am I missing?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Arvind Prabhakar
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:22 AM, Sravya Tirukkovalur <
>> sravya@cloudera.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks for writing this up David! It was great meeting you yesterday,
>> and
>> >> it is always good to get some face time with the community too!
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for acknowledging the progress and giving some valuable
>> suggestions
>> >> on community building and transparency!
>> >>
>> >> I will follow up on the action items in separate email threads once I
>> get
>> >> back home from the conference.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hi folks,
>> >> >
>> >> > I had the chance to meet and talk with Sravya today at ApacheCon and
>> >> > talk about the project, and I wanted to bring that conversation back
>> >> > to the list. Others should feel free to weigh in, but mainly didn't
>> >> > want to just be discussing this in isolation.
>> >> >
>> >> > First, we discussed how the project has changed over the past few
>> >> > months, and I think that we agreed that we think it's moving in the
>> >> > right direction, with a lot more obvious discussions happening on the
>> >> > dev list, but still plenty of room to improve.
>> >> >
>> >> > We also talked about some things we can do going forward to move the
>> >> > project further along, and walked away with some action items.
>> >> >
>> >> > 1. Start writing up quick summaries from Hangouts/phone calls that
>> are
>> >> > happening regarding the project, so that everyone has some visibility
>> >> > into what is happening. We also discussed the possibility of the
>> >> > project holding a regularly scheduled hangout or IRC meeting that
>> >> > folks can attend.
>> >> >
>> >> 2. Reach out to mentors for proactive help on growing the community.
>> >> > (I explicitly volunteered Joe Brockmeier and myself to jump on a
>> >> > hangout/webex/IRC/ML Discussion to see if we can help in this regard)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> > We also talked about the graduation process, and talked about what
>> >> > needs to happen in that process when we are ready for it. We briefly
>> >> > touched on project diversity, and what we both viewed as the current
>> >> > status of the project.
>> >> >
>> >> > --David
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Sravya Tirukkovalur
>> >>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sravya Tirukkovalur
>
--
Sravya Tirukkovalur
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Sravya Tirukkovalur <sr...@cloudera.com>.
On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 4:31 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> Hi Arvind and Patrick,
>
> Sorry for the lag, I've been traveling internationally a lot, and lost
> sight of this thread.
>
> The concern that Joe and I raised several months back is about where
> project direction and other decisions are being set.
>
> Work was being done, reviews happening in public, but there didn't
> seem to be any discussion on future direction of the project, new
> features, new integrations. They'd show up as bugs in Jira, and then
> code started appearing.
>
> There's been some change since those concerns were raised. [1][2]are
> nice examples.
>
> When Sravya and I were talking in Budapest, she indicated that there
> were a number of Hangouts/phone calls happening where things were
> being discussed, and potentially even being decided. I didn't know
> these were taking place. I asked that at a minimum that folks bring
> back discussions to the mailing list. (See email from end of
> September) I also suggested that maybe instead of 2-5 people going off
> and setting up a hangout or conference call that the project have it's
> own call, known to everyone, with open invites so that others could
> attend, and meeting notes kept.
>
>
David,
I think I should make it clear this interpretation is just way extrapolated
from the conversation we had. I do not know what exact wording I used, but
in no way it was supposed to mean "potentially even being decided". We were
brainstorming what else can we do to build community and facilitate
communication.
A few times people reached out to me directly if they require quick and
high bandwidth feedback, it has mostly been around a particular comment on
RB on which they are working on. And even in those cases, the clarified
version is put on the review board and communication is continued on the
jira/RB. I did prompt them to ask on public channel the next time. I
personally thought I was helping them by being available when they needed.
But I thought your idea of having scheduled hangouts might help so that
people who might be hesitant to reach out directly or ask on dev list to
ask questions. But if answering people's questions when they reach out was
not an Apache Way, I apologize for it. It will entirely be my mistake.
>
> --David
>
>
> [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201508.mbox/%3cCACMN7iyScd91SPqgAEb+WRe1R0mv-uBCJ0TJ6gPdEcy3HWp6hg@mail.gmail.com%3e
> [2]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201508.mbox/%3cCACMN7iyPyq3zgMm93w32Q6z6Ka=eqpyr6GqqxF_-mc4R+EFyDQ@mail.gmail.com%3e
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > Sravya, David -
> >
> > Could either one of you outline what objective criteria is yet to be met
> by
> > the project so that it can be ready for graduation? Pardon my lack of
> > understanding of something that may be obvious to you, but I see a fully
> > functional project community that is trying their best to make progress
> > while doing a great job at self governance. What am I missing?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Arvind Prabhakar
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:22 AM, Sravya Tirukkovalur <sravya@cloudera.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for writing this up David! It was great meeting you yesterday,
> and
> >> it is always good to get some face time with the community too!
> >>
> >> Thanks for acknowledging the progress and giving some valuable
> suggestions
> >> on community building and transparency!
> >>
> >> I will follow up on the action items in separate email threads once I
> get
> >> back home from the conference.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi folks,
> >> >
> >> > I had the chance to meet and talk with Sravya today at ApacheCon and
> >> > talk about the project, and I wanted to bring that conversation back
> >> > to the list. Others should feel free to weigh in, but mainly didn't
> >> > want to just be discussing this in isolation.
> >> >
> >> > First, we discussed how the project has changed over the past few
> >> > months, and I think that we agreed that we think it's moving in the
> >> > right direction, with a lot more obvious discussions happening on the
> >> > dev list, but still plenty of room to improve.
> >> >
> >> > We also talked about some things we can do going forward to move the
> >> > project further along, and walked away with some action items.
> >> >
> >> > 1. Start writing up quick summaries from Hangouts/phone calls that are
> >> > happening regarding the project, so that everyone has some visibility
> >> > into what is happening. We also discussed the possibility of the
> >> > project holding a regularly scheduled hangout or IRC meeting that
> >> > folks can attend.
> >> >
> >> 2. Reach out to mentors for proactive help on growing the community.
> >> > (I explicitly volunteered Joe Brockmeier and myself to jump on a
> >> > hangout/webex/IRC/ML Discussion to see if we can help in this regard)
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> > We also talked about the graduation process, and talked about what
> >> > needs to happen in that process when we are ready for it. We briefly
> >> > touched on project diversity, and what we both viewed as the current
> >> > status of the project.
> >> >
> >> > --David
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sravya Tirukkovalur
> >>
>
--
Sravya Tirukkovalur
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
Hi Arvind and Patrick,
Sorry for the lag, I've been traveling internationally a lot, and lost
sight of this thread.
The concern that Joe and I raised several months back is about where
project direction and other decisions are being set.
Work was being done, reviews happening in public, but there didn't
seem to be any discussion on future direction of the project, new
features, new integrations. They'd show up as bugs in Jira, and then
code started appearing.
There's been some change since those concerns were raised. [1][2]are
nice examples.
When Sravya and I were talking in Budapest, she indicated that there
were a number of Hangouts/phone calls happening where things were
being discussed, and potentially even being decided. I didn't know
these were taking place. I asked that at a minimum that folks bring
back discussions to the mailing list. (See email from end of
September) I also suggested that maybe instead of 2-5 people going off
and setting up a hangout or conference call that the project have it's
own call, known to everyone, with open invites so that others could
attend, and meeting notes kept.
--David
[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201508.mbox/%3cCACMN7iyScd91SPqgAEb+WRe1R0mv-uBCJ0TJ6gPdEcy3HWp6hg@mail.gmail.com%3e
[2] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201508.mbox/%3cCACMN7iyPyq3zgMm93w32Q6z6Ka=eqpyr6GqqxF_-mc4R+EFyDQ@mail.gmail.com%3e
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org> wrote:
> Sravya, David -
>
> Could either one of you outline what objective criteria is yet to be met by
> the project so that it can be ready for graduation? Pardon my lack of
> understanding of something that may be obvious to you, but I see a fully
> functional project community that is trying their best to make progress
> while doing a great job at self governance. What am I missing?
>
> Regards,
> Arvind Prabhakar
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:22 AM, Sravya Tirukkovalur <sr...@cloudera.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for writing this up David! It was great meeting you yesterday, and
>> it is always good to get some face time with the community too!
>>
>> Thanks for acknowledging the progress and giving some valuable suggestions
>> on community building and transparency!
>>
>> I will follow up on the action items in separate email threads once I get
>> back home from the conference.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > I had the chance to meet and talk with Sravya today at ApacheCon and
>> > talk about the project, and I wanted to bring that conversation back
>> > to the list. Others should feel free to weigh in, but mainly didn't
>> > want to just be discussing this in isolation.
>> >
>> > First, we discussed how the project has changed over the past few
>> > months, and I think that we agreed that we think it's moving in the
>> > right direction, with a lot more obvious discussions happening on the
>> > dev list, but still plenty of room to improve.
>> >
>> > We also talked about some things we can do going forward to move the
>> > project further along, and walked away with some action items.
>> >
>> > 1. Start writing up quick summaries from Hangouts/phone calls that are
>> > happening regarding the project, so that everyone has some visibility
>> > into what is happening. We also discussed the possibility of the
>> > project holding a regularly scheduled hangout or IRC meeting that
>> > folks can attend.
>> >
>> 2. Reach out to mentors for proactive help on growing the community.
>> > (I explicitly volunteered Joe Brockmeier and myself to jump on a
>> > hangout/webex/IRC/ML Discussion to see if we can help in this regard)
>> >
>> >
>>
>> > We also talked about the graduation process, and talked about what
>> > needs to happen in that process when we are ready for it. We briefly
>> > touched on project diversity, and what we both viewed as the current
>> > status of the project.
>> >
>> > --David
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sravya Tirukkovalur
>>
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org>.
Sravya, David -
Could either one of you outline what objective criteria is yet to be met by
the project so that it can be ready for graduation? Pardon my lack of
understanding of something that may be obvious to you, but I see a fully
functional project community that is trying their best to make progress
while doing a great job at self governance. What am I missing?
Regards,
Arvind Prabhakar
On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:22 AM, Sravya Tirukkovalur <sr...@cloudera.com>
wrote:
> Thanks for writing this up David! It was great meeting you yesterday, and
> it is always good to get some face time with the community too!
>
> Thanks for acknowledging the progress and giving some valuable suggestions
> on community building and transparency!
>
> I will follow up on the action items in separate email threads once I get
> back home from the conference.
>
> Regards,
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I had the chance to meet and talk with Sravya today at ApacheCon and
> > talk about the project, and I wanted to bring that conversation back
> > to the list. Others should feel free to weigh in, but mainly didn't
> > want to just be discussing this in isolation.
> >
> > First, we discussed how the project has changed over the past few
> > months, and I think that we agreed that we think it's moving in the
> > right direction, with a lot more obvious discussions happening on the
> > dev list, but still plenty of room to improve.
> >
> > We also talked about some things we can do going forward to move the
> > project further along, and walked away with some action items.
> >
> > 1. Start writing up quick summaries from Hangouts/phone calls that are
> > happening regarding the project, so that everyone has some visibility
> > into what is happening. We also discussed the possibility of the
> > project holding a regularly scheduled hangout or IRC meeting that
> > folks can attend.
> >
> 2. Reach out to mentors for proactive help on growing the community.
> > (I explicitly volunteered Joe Brockmeier and myself to jump on a
> > hangout/webex/IRC/ML Discussion to see if we can help in this regard)
> >
> >
>
> > We also talked about the graduation process, and talked about what
> > needs to happen in that process when we are ready for it. We briefly
> > touched on project diversity, and what we both viewed as the current
> > status of the project.
> >
> > --David
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sravya Tirukkovalur
>
Re: Discussion at ApacheCon:BigData
Posted by Sravya Tirukkovalur <sr...@cloudera.com>.
Thanks for writing this up David! It was great meeting you yesterday, and
it is always good to get some face time with the community too!
Thanks for acknowledging the progress and giving some valuable suggestions
on community building and transparency!
I will follow up on the action items in separate email threads once I get
back home from the conference.
Regards,
On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the chance to meet and talk with Sravya today at ApacheCon and
> talk about the project, and I wanted to bring that conversation back
> to the list. Others should feel free to weigh in, but mainly didn't
> want to just be discussing this in isolation.
>
> First, we discussed how the project has changed over the past few
> months, and I think that we agreed that we think it's moving in the
> right direction, with a lot more obvious discussions happening on the
> dev list, but still plenty of room to improve.
>
> We also talked about some things we can do going forward to move the
> project further along, and walked away with some action items.
>
> 1. Start writing up quick summaries from Hangouts/phone calls that are
> happening regarding the project, so that everyone has some visibility
> into what is happening. We also discussed the possibility of the
> project holding a regularly scheduled hangout or IRC meeting that
> folks can attend.
>
2. Reach out to mentors for proactive help on growing the community.
> (I explicitly volunteered Joe Brockmeier and myself to jump on a
> hangout/webex/IRC/ML Discussion to see if we can help in this regard)
>
>
> We also talked about the graduation process, and talked about what
> needs to happen in that process when we are ready for it. We briefly
> touched on project diversity, and what we both viewed as the current
> status of the project.
>
> --David
>
--
Sravya Tirukkovalur