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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net> on 2012/12/02 05:12:29 UTC
[User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide finished
After 3 months of frustration it is time to end the effort to get The
Getting Started Guide that had been started for AOO 3.4 completed.
Despite repeated requests for help on the ODFAuthors list it is apparent
that either the Authors that had been working on Open Office docs are
either no longer interested or are working strictly on the LO books.
Alexandro Colorado made an attempt at getting the Base Guide done but
was not able to get any responses to his requests for comments on his
markups and changes and decided to put it on hold until he did. As far
as I know he is still waiting.
One other volunteer stepped up from an inquiry on this list and gave
valuable help. Prabha again thank you very much for your work and I hope
that you will get involved with the defining of a new documentation project.
With only 2 people actively working it is not possible to give the work
the quality review and editing that it deserves to have the Open Office
name attached to it.
Reluctantly unless someone with the requisite skills in technical
writing and publishing that I do not have can lend a hand I feel it is
best to end the effort and not waste anymore of anyone's time.
I will continue to contribute where I can, but that is difficult or
someone who is not a developer.
Regards
Keith N. McKenna
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide finished
Posted by Guy Waterval <wa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Donald,
2012/12/3 Donald Whytock <dw...@gmail.com>
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:53 AM, Guy Waterval <wa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Why not publish the documentation directly on Wikipédia, with a double
> > licence, ALv2.0 and GFDL, for instance? Is it impossible for questions
> of
> > licences, organization, political reasons .... Wikipédia has a lot of
> good
> > contributors in different languages, a big visibility, you can do
> > documentation and marketing at the same time....
>
> Wikipedia doesn't really like that sort of thing:
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_manual.2C_guidebook.2C_textbook.2C_or_scientific_journal
>
> Is there maybe some other public venue for manuals?
>
Wikibooks, but it does not seem so attractive.
There is also the problem of the license, of course. Not sure they could
accept an ALV2.0 with their own licences.
I think the best solution is the wiki here for an original documentation.
After, there is always the possibility to build a more classic version
(book) with people who are interested in this type of documentation. A
documentation project is always difficult to start. I don't know why, but
it's a fact.
A+
--
gw
>
>
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide finished
Posted by Donald Whytock <dw...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:53 AM, Guy Waterval <wa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why not publish the documentation directly on Wikipédia, with a double
> licence, ALv2.0 and GFDL, for instance? Is it impossible for questions of
> licences, organization, political reasons .... Wikipédia has a lot of good
> contributors in different languages, a big visibility, you can do
> documentation and marketing at the same time....
Wikipedia doesn't really like that sort of thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_manual.2C_guidebook.2C_textbook.2C_or_scientific_journal
Is there maybe some other public venue for manuals?
Don
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide finished
Posted by Guy Waterval <wa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Rob,
Hi all,
2012/12/2 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>
> Let me describe a possible future, and maybe you (and others) can help
> influence it. I'm not a documentation expert but I can help some.
> But mostly I can help on the recruitment side.
>
> Imagine we do the following:
>
> 1) Create a new doc@openoffice.apache.org list
>
It would be OK for me to participate, but not as a moderator, due to my too
basic English.
I profit from this post to perhaps commit a sacrilege ;-)
Why not publish the documentation directly on Wikipédia, with a double
licence, ALv2.0 and GFDL, for instance? Is it impossible for questions of
licences, organization, political reasons .... Wikipédia has a lot of good
contributors in different languages, a big visibility, you can do
documentation and marketing at the same time....
A+
--
gw
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide
finished
Posted by Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org>.
On 12/03/2012 12:14 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
> <an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
>> On 12/02/2012 10:29 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> I can help drive steps 1-4, but I cannot do 5 by myself. I'd need the
>>> commitment of 3-4 other project members to help mentor the new volunteers,
>>> to volunteer as list moderators, and to help encourage the relaunched
>>> documentation project to develop a documentation plan for AOO 4.0. Does
>>> anyone want to help with this? -Rob
>> I am not currently a list moderator, but am willing to become one. What does
>> it entail?
>>
> Moderator responsibilities are:
>
>
> - Review messages that have been held for moderation, reject spam
> posts and allow the valid messages through.
>
> - Assist users who are having difficulties subscribing or
> unsubscribing from the list.
>
> - Provide reports to the PMC on request, on the number of current
> subscribers.
>
> - For private lists, approve subscription requests for authorized
> subscribers only.
>
> - When needed, escalate technical issues to Infra and privacy
> issues to the PMC.
>
>
> 95% of the time it is just the first item.
>
>
> -Rob
OK, sounds reasonable..... I can do that.
How do I learn to do each task?
I am willing to help in this role! So, if and/or when you start looking
for moderators, and you feel I am suitable for the task, sign me up!
--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide finished
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
<an...@pitonyak.org> wrote:
>
> On 12/02/2012 10:29 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> I can help drive steps 1-4, but I cannot do 5 by myself. I'd need the
>> commitment of 3-4 other project members to help mentor the new volunteers,
>> to volunteer as list moderators, and to help encourage the relaunched
>> documentation project to develop a documentation plan for AOO 4.0. Does
>> anyone want to help with this? -Rob
>
> I am not currently a list moderator, but am willing to become one. What does
> it entail?
>
Moderator responsibilities are:
- Review messages that have been held for moderation, reject spam
posts and allow the valid messages through.
- Assist users who are having difficulties subscribing or
unsubscribing from the list.
- Provide reports to the PMC on request, on the number of current
subscribers.
- For private lists, approve subscription requests for authorized
subscribers only.
- When needed, escalate technical issues to Infra and privacy
issues to the PMC.
95% of the time it is just the first item.
-Rob
> --
> Andrew Pitonyak
> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
>
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide
finished
Posted by Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org>.
On 12/02/2012 10:29 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> I can help drive steps 1-4, but I cannot do 5 by myself. I'd need the
> commitment of 3-4 other project members to help mentor the new
> volunteers, to volunteer as list moderators, and to help encourage the
> relaunched documentation project to develop a documentation plan for
> AOO 4.0. Does anyone want to help with this? -Rob
I am not currently a list moderator, but am willing to become one. What
does it entail?
--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide
finished
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Keith N. McKenna
> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> After 3 months of frustration it is time to end the effort to get The
>> Getting Started Guide that had been started for AOO 3.4 completed. Despite
>> repeated requests for help on the ODFAuthors list it is apparent that either
>> the Authors that had been working on Open Office docs are either no longer
>> interested or are working strictly on the LO books.
>>
>> Alexandro Colorado made an attempt at getting the Base Guide done but was
>> not able to get any responses to his requests for comments on his markups
>> and changes and decided to put it on hold until he did. As far as I know he
>> is still waiting.
>>
>> One other volunteer stepped up from an inquiry on this list and gave
>> valuable help. Prabha again thank you very much for your work and I hope
>> that you will get involved with the defining of a new documentation project.
>>
>> With only 2 people actively working it is not possible to give the work the
>> quality review and editing that it deserves to have the Open Office name
>> attached to it.
>>
>> Reluctantly unless someone with the requisite skills in technical writing
>> and publishing that I do not have can lend a hand I feel it is best to end
>> the effort and not waste anymore of anyone's time.
>>
>> I will continue to contribute where I can, but that is difficult or someone
>> who is not a developer.
>>
>
> Let me describe a possible future, and maybe you (and others) can help
> influence it. I'm not a documentation expert but I can help some.
> But mostly I can help on the recruitment side.
>
> Imagine we do the following:
>
> 1) Create a new doc@openoffice.apache.org list
>
> 2) We write an "Introduction to Documentation" page for our
> orientation modules:
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/index.html. It
> would be a single page, a high level overview of how documentation
> fits into the overall project, what tools and methods we use (or have
> available to us), etc.
>
> 3) We write a blog post for the project blog, where we issue a "call
> for documentation volunteers"
>
> 4) We promote that blog post via social networks, and via a prominent
> banner on the www.openoffice.org webpage.
>
> 5) If we do the above, I think that within 2 weeks we will have 20
> people posting to to our new Doc mailing list, offering to help with
> the documentation. We've seen similar results with Marketing and QA.
> They will have different skill levels, degrees of enthusiasm and time
> to contribute. This will be the critical time for the doc project.
> We would need several experienced members of the project, on the doc
> list, able to answer questions and help the new volunteers. If we
> look too chaotic at this point we will lose many of the 20.
>
> I can help drive steps 1-4, but I cannot do 5 by myself. I'd need the
> commitment of 3-4 other project members to help mentor the new
> volunteers, to volunteer as list moderators, and to help encourage the
> relaunched documentation project to develop a documentation plan for
> AOO 4.0.
>
> Does anyone want to help with this?
>
> -Rob
>
Rob;
I would be very interested in helping in any way that I can. I firmly
believe that good documentation is a must for any user centric software
product.
Although I try whenever possible to read the lists via gmane's nntp feed
I would be willing to help with moderating the list.
Regards
Keith
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide finished
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Keith N. McKenna
<ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
> After 3 months of frustration it is time to end the effort to get The
> Getting Started Guide that had been started for AOO 3.4 completed. Despite
> repeated requests for help on the ODFAuthors list it is apparent that either
> the Authors that had been working on Open Office docs are either no longer
> interested or are working strictly on the LO books.
>
> Alexandro Colorado made an attempt at getting the Base Guide done but was
> not able to get any responses to his requests for comments on his markups
> and changes and decided to put it on hold until he did. As far as I know he
> is still waiting.
>
> One other volunteer stepped up from an inquiry on this list and gave
> valuable help. Prabha again thank you very much for your work and I hope
> that you will get involved with the defining of a new documentation project.
>
> With only 2 people actively working it is not possible to give the work the
> quality review and editing that it deserves to have the Open Office name
> attached to it.
>
> Reluctantly unless someone with the requisite skills in technical writing
> and publishing that I do not have can lend a hand I feel it is best to end
> the effort and not waste anymore of anyone's time.
>
> I will continue to contribute where I can, but that is difficult or someone
> who is not a developer.
>
Let me describe a possible future, and maybe you (and others) can help
influence it. I'm not a documentation expert but I can help some.
But mostly I can help on the recruitment side.
Imagine we do the following:
1) Create a new doc@openoffice.apache.org list
2) We write an "Introduction to Documentation" page for our
orientation modules:
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/index.html. It
would be a single page, a high level overview of how documentation
fits into the overall project, what tools and methods we use (or have
available to us), etc.
3) We write a blog post for the project blog, where we issue a "call
for documentation volunteers"
4) We promote that blog post via social networks, and via a prominent
banner on the www.openoffice.org webpage.
5) If we do the above, I think that within 2 weeks we will have 20
people posting to to our new Doc mailing list, offering to help with
the documentation. We've seen similar results with Marketing and QA.
They will have different skill levels, degrees of enthusiasm and time
to contribute. This will be the critical time for the doc project.
We would need several experienced members of the project, on the doc
list, able to answer questions and help the new volunteers. If we
look too chaotic at this point we will lose many of the 20.
I can help drive steps 1-4, but I cannot do 5 by myself. I'd need the
commitment of 3-4 other project members to help mentor the new
volunteers, to volunteer as list moderators, and to help encourage the
relaunched documentation project to develop a documentation plan for
AOO 4.0.
Does anyone want to help with this?
-Rob
> Regards
> Keith N. McKenna
>
>
>
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide finished
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 1:38 AM, Stan Helton <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am disappointed to see this. I tried to volunteer for this kind of thing
> and did not receive a response a few months ago. It is a little frustrating
> to see the first comment one of ending the initiative. If I can help I would
> certainly like to.
>
> I am a part-time programmer and a writer. How can I help? What is the most
> pressing need? I believe I have the requisite technical and publishing
> skills to advance this part of the project.
>
We're not ending an initiative. We're talking about recruiting more
documentation volunteers and taking on a more ambitious initiative.
-Rob
> Stan Helton
> Trying to volunteer, but a little frustrated in finding the right position
> in the team.
>
>
>
> On 12/1/2012 10:12 PM, Keith N. McKenna wrote:
>>
>> After 3 months of frustration it is time to end the effort to get The
>> Getting Started Guide that had been started for AOO 3.4 completed. Despite
>> repeated requests for help on the ODFAuthors list it is apparent that either
>> the Authors that had been working on Open Office docs are either no longer
>> interested or are working strictly on the LO books.
>>
>> Alexandro Colorado made an attempt at getting the Base Guide done but was
>> not able to get any responses to his requests for comments on his markups
>> and changes and decided to put it on hold until he did. As far as I know he
>> is still waiting.
>>
>> One other volunteer stepped up from an inquiry on this list and gave
>> valuable help. Prabha again thank you very much for your work and I hope
>> that you will get involved with the defining of a new documentation project.
>>
>> With only 2 people actively working it is not possible to give the work
>> the quality review and editing that it deserves to have the Open Office name
>> attached to it.
>>
>> Reluctantly unless someone with the requisite skills in technical writing
>> and publishing that I do not have can lend a hand I feel it is best to end
>> the effort and not waste anymore of anyone's time.
>>
>> I will continue to contribute where I can, but that is difficult or
>> someone who is not a developer.
>>
>> Regards
>> Keith N. McKenna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Courtesy is the grease that keeps the wheels of civilization turning. Robert
> Heinlein
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide
finished
Posted by Stan Helton <st...@gmail.com>.
I am disappointed to see this. I tried to volunteer for this kind of
thing and did not receive a response a few months ago. It is a little
frustrating to see the first comment one of ending the initiative. If I
can help I would certainly like to.
I am a part-time programmer and a writer. How can I help? What is the
most pressing need? I believe I have the requisite technical and
publishing skills to advance this part of the project.
Stan Helton
Trying to volunteer, but a little frustrated in finding the right
position in the team.
On 12/1/2012 10:12 PM, Keith N. McKenna wrote:
> After 3 months of frustration it is time to end the effort to get The
> Getting Started Guide that had been started for AOO 3.4 completed.
> Despite repeated requests for help on the ODFAuthors list it is
> apparent that either the Authors that had been working on Open Office
> docs are either no longer interested or are working strictly on the LO
> books.
>
> Alexandro Colorado made an attempt at getting the Base Guide done but
> was not able to get any responses to his requests for comments on his
> markups and changes and decided to put it on hold until he did. As far
> as I know he is still waiting.
>
> One other volunteer stepped up from an inquiry on this list and gave
> valuable help. Prabha again thank you very much for your work and I
> hope that you will get involved with the defining of a new
> documentation project.
>
> With only 2 people actively working it is not possible to give the
> work the quality review and editing that it deserves to have the Open
> Office name attached to it.
>
> Reluctantly unless someone with the requisite skills in technical
> writing and publishing that I do not have can lend a hand I feel it is
> best to end the effort and not waste anymore of anyone's time.
>
> I will continue to contribute where I can, but that is difficult or
> someone who is not a developer.
>
> Regards
> Keith N. McKenna
>
>
>
>
--
Courtesy is the grease that keeps the wheels of civilization turning.
Robert Heinlein
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide finished
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On 12/1/12, Keith N. McKenna <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
> After 3 months of frustration it is time to end the effort to get The
> Getting Started Guide that had been started for AOO 3.4 completed.
> Despite repeated requests for help on the ODFAuthors list it is apparent
> that either the Authors that had been working on Open Office docs are
> either no longer interested or are working strictly on the LO books.
>
> Alexandro Colorado made an attempt at getting the Base Guide done but
> was not able to get any responses to his requests for comments on his
> markups and changes and decided to put it on hold until he did. As far
> as I know he is still waiting.
For the record I pause my contribution to Base based on real life
things I needed to take care of. However on the other side, I have
been succesfully mentoring students on contributing to the spanish
version of this guide. Have been releasing new chapters every other
day and hope to finish all the chapters and guide quite soon.
I descided to help on Base because I had some paid work on developing
courseware for a corporate training but the course got cancelled and
the funds with it. :(
Hopefully new opportunities will come and would be able to re-start my
involvement and bill my hours to the client.
>
> One other volunteer stepped up from an inquiry on this list and gave
> valuable help. Prabha again thank you very much for your work and I hope
> that you will get involved with the defining of a new documentation
> project.
>
> With only 2 people actively working it is not possible to give the work
> the quality review and editing that it deserves to have the Open Office
> name attached to it.
>
> Reluctantly unless someone with the requisite skills in technical
> writing and publishing that I do not have can lend a hand I feel it is
> best to end the effort and not waste anymore of anyone's time.
>
> I will continue to contribute where I can, but that is difficult or
> someone who is not a developer.
>
> Regards
> Keith N. McKenna
>
>
>
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide
finished
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Stan Helton wrote:
> I am disappointed to see this. I tried to volunteer for this kind of
> thing and did not receive a response a few months ago. It is a little
> frustrating to see the first comment one of ending the initiative. If I
> can help I would certainly like to.
>
> I am a part-time programmer and a writer. How can I help? What is the
> most pressing need? I believe I have the requisite technical and
> publishing skills to advance this part of the project.
>
> Stan Helton
> Trying to volunteer, but a little frustrated in finding the right
> position in the team.
>
Stan;
First off let me apologize for missing your message volunteering. I seem
to remember having an e-mail forwarded to me from the ODFAuthors site on
someone wanting to volunteer. Unfortunately it was caught up in in a
problem on my system and got lost in the recovery.
I you are still interested the state of the effort at this point is all
but one or 2 chapters have been reviewed and need the touch of an
experienced writer or editor to merge the proposed comments and changes;
then polish them for possible publication or a second review effort.
I would like nothing better than to get this back on track so that there
is at least a Getting Started Guide available or the lateset 3.x version.
If you are interested we can discuss this further in a separate thread.
Regards
Keith
>
> On 12/1/2012 10:12 PM, Keith N. McKenna wrote:
>> After 3 months of frustration it is time to end the effort to get The
>> Getting Started Guide that had been started for AOO 3.4 completed.
>> Despite repeated requests for help on the ODFAuthors list it is
>> apparent that either the Authors that had been working on Open Office
>> docs are either no longer interested or are working strictly on the LO
>> books.
>>
>> Alexandro Colorado made an attempt at getting the Base Guide done but
>> was not able to get any responses to his requests for comments on his
>> markups and changes and decided to put it on hold until he did. As far
>> as I know he is still waiting.
>>
>> One other volunteer stepped up from an inquiry on this list and gave
>> valuable help. Prabha again thank you very much for your work and I
>> hope that you will get involved with the defining of a new
>> documentation project.
>>
>> With only 2 people actively working it is not possible to give the
>> work the quality review and editing that it deserves to have the Open
>> Office name attached to it.
>>
>> Reluctantly unless someone with the requisite skills in technical
>> writing and publishing that I do not have can lend a hand I feel it is
>> best to end the effort and not waste anymore of anyone's time.
>>
>> I will continue to contribute where I can, but that is difficult or
>> someone who is not a developer.
>>
>> Regards
>> Keith N. McKenna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: [User Docs] End of effort to get AOO v3.4 Getting Started Guide
finished
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On 12/1/12, Keith N. McKenna <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> After 3 months of frustration it is time to end the effort to get The
>> Getting Started Guide that had been started for AOO 3.4 completed.
>> Despite repeated requests for help on the ODFAuthors list it is apparent
>> that either the Authors that had been working on Open Office docs are
>> either no longer interested or are working strictly on the LO books.
>>
>> Alexandro Colorado made an attempt at getting the Base Guide done but
>> was not able to get any responses to his requests for comments on his
>> markups and changes and decided to put it on hold until he did. As far
>> as I know he is still waiting.
>
> For the record I pause my contribution to Base based on real life
> things I needed to take care of. However on the other side, I have
> been succesfully mentoring students on contributing to the spanish
> version of this guide. Have been releasing new chapters every other
> day and hope to finish all the chapters and guide quite soon.
>
> I descided to help on Base because I had some paid work on developing
> courseware for a corporate training but the course got cancelled and
> the funds with it. :(
>
> Hopefully new opportunities will come and would be able to re-start my
> involvement and bill my hours to the client.
>
>>
>> One other volunteer stepped up from an inquiry on this list and gave
>> valuable help. Prabha again thank you very much for your work and I hope
>> that you will get involved with the defining of a new documentation
>> project.
>>
>> With only 2 people actively working it is not possible to give the work
>> the quality review and editing that it deserves to have the Open Office
>> name attached to it.
>>
>> Reluctantly unless someone with the requisite skills in technical
>> writing and publishing that I do not have can lend a hand I feel it is
>> best to end the effort and not waste anymore of anyone's time.
>>
>> I will continue to contribute where I can, but that is difficult or
>> someone who is not a developer.
>>
>> Regards
>> Keith N. McKenna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Alexandro;
My most sincere apologies for any unintended misrepresentation on my
part. My comments were based on the last conversation that I had with
you here on the list. You had stated then that you had the base efforts
on hold waiting for feedback on your previous comments.
Again my apologies for my inadvertent misrepresentation. I wish you the
best with your efforts on the Spanish versions.
Regards
Keith