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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> on 2016/05/28 00:52:39 UTC
Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
I respectfully disagree... One of the main reasons we went from 1 to 3
recommended mentors, way back in the days, was that those 3 would be the
primary people to ping for binding votes, without limiting the rest of the
IPMC to do so.
If that is no longer the consensus, then we need to look at the bigger
picture.
At the moment, the number of incubating projects are staggering (>50), and
take a look at https://projects.apache.org/ . I think it looks like both
the RATE-Incomng is increasing and the RATE-graduating is slowing down
recently, OR that there was a particularly strong effort to get projects to
graduate in 2011-2012 to bring the incubation set down.
Either way, I think we need to manage to drive down the number of projects
in incubation.
An additional graph that would be super-interesting to get is "Months in
Incubation" for the current podlings, plotted over time.
Cheers
Niclas
On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > I think you need to ping your mentors, and if they are not able, then I
> > think you need to raise this as an issue with the Incubator PMC, either
> in
> > separate thread or put it in the report for next month.
>
> AFAIK it's not the responsibility of the mentors to vote, it's the
> responsibility of the IPMC. Mentors should vote if they can, but there’s
> going to be times when they are busy and unable to do so.
>
> > I am not on the PMC, and can't help at this point.
>
> Anyone can vote on a release you don’t have to be on the IPMC to do so.
> IPMC votes are the only binding votes however. But voting on releases may
> be a way to join the IPMC if you are not an ASF member.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 05/28/2016 05:31 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> And where is the sources for that?
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/projects.apache.org/
With regards,
Daniel.
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 05/28/2016 05:25 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>>> Thanks Justin,
>>> as always, snapshots in time is not as useful as trending data over
>> time. I
>>> guess it is time to take a look at whimsy.. :-)
>>
>> Or projects.apache.org :) Since there's already an incubator chart there
>> - should be easy to add another one.
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Justin Mclean <justin@classsoftware.com
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>> An additional graph that would be super-interesting to get is "Months
>> in
>>>>> Incubation" for the current podlings, plotted over time.
>>>>
>>>> Some of the data can be found here [1] (column B)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> 1. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
And where is the sources for that?
On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 05/28/2016 05:25 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> > Thanks Justin,
> > as always, snapshots in time is not as useful as trending data over
> time. I
> > guess it is time to take a look at whimsy.. :-)
>
> Or projects.apache.org :) Since there's already an incubator chart there
> - should be easy to add another one.
>
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Justin Mclean <justin@classsoftware.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>> An additional graph that would be super-interesting to get is "Months
> in
> >>> Incubation" for the current podlings, plotted over time.
> >>
> >> Some of the data can be found here [1] (column B)
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Justin
> >>
> >> 1. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
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>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 05/28/2016 05:25 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> Thanks Justin,
> as always, snapshots in time is not as useful as trending data over time. I
> guess it is time to take a look at whimsy.. :-)
Or projects.apache.org :) Since there's already an incubator chart there
- should be easy to add another one.
>
> Cheers
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>> An additional graph that would be super-interesting to get is "Months in
>>> Incubation" for the current podlings, plotted over time.
>>
>> Some of the data can be found here [1] (column B)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>>
>> 1. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> as always, snapshots in time is not as useful as trending data over time. I
> guess it is time to take a look at whimsy.. :-)
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
Justin
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Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
Thanks Justin,
as always, snapshots in time is not as useful as trending data over time. I
guess it is time to take a look at whimsy.. :-)
Cheers
On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > An additional graph that would be super-interesting to get is "Months in
> > Incubation" for the current podlings, plotted over time.
>
> Some of the data can be found here [1] (column B)
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> An additional graph that would be super-interesting to get is "Months in
> Incubation" for the current podlings, plotted over time.
Some of the data can be found here [1] (column B)
Thanks,
Justin
1. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
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Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Myrle Krantz <mk...@mifos.org>.
As a podling member, who's been observing here for a couple of months I
have a question here:
What are the principles the incubator uses to decide whether or not to
accept a podling? I know there are a few questions that all podlings have
to answer when creating their proposal, but I haven't actually seen any
podlings rejected in the time I've been watching. Is there a clear picture
of what kinds of projects Apache *doesn't* want to take on?
(As an aside, I read Justin's votes on other projects' releases to improve
my understanding of the general requirements for a release. He's not just
voting on every release. By explaining the principles he bases his vote on
every time, he's providing a blue print on how to judge a release for those
of us creating them. Thank you Justin.)
Greets,
Myrle
*Myrle Krantz*
Solutions Architect
RɅĐɅЯ, The Mifos Initiative
mkrantz@mifos.org | Skype: mkrantz.mifos.org | http://mifos.org
<http://facebook.com/mifos> <http://www.twitter.com/mifos>
On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 6:41 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
> wrote:
> > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Sterling Hughes <st...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> I just want to clarify here on the thread —- while I think in general
> there
> >> may be problems with too many podlings/inactive mentors, that is not an
> >> issue we often face.
> >
> > Justin Mclean has voted on so many releases over the last several years,
> he is
> > the HERO of the Incubator. Justin should never buy his own beer at
> ApacheCon
> > ever again!
>
> Couldn't agree more! I personally can't even start to describe how
> valuable Justin's
> feedback was and is for the podling communities I help to mentor. In no
> way my
> remark on mentors who don't vote was aimed at Justin -- he's one huge
> exception
> to that rule.
>
> Now with the above out of the way -- for everybody else ;-) I'm
> actually curious to run the
> analysis I suggested earlier, because with a a few exception like
> yourself my gut is telling
> me that not many IPMC members vote outside of poldings they mentor.
> I may be wrong, but I, myself, certainly fit in that profile.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> P.S. And to be clear, for podlings with 3+ mentors relying on mentors
> to get those votes
> may be much more reasonable anyway. Perhaps that's the commitment
> expectations
> that would be useful to make more explicit. It certainly helps a great
> deal to get free standing
> IPMC votes, but I'd rather have a stronger expectations for mentors.
>
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Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Sterling Hughes <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>> I just want to clarify here on the thread —- while I think in general there
>> may be problems with too many podlings/inactive mentors, that is not an
>> issue we often face.
>
> Justin Mclean has voted on so many releases over the last several years, he is
> the HERO of the Incubator. Justin should never buy his own beer at ApacheCon
> ever again!
Couldn't agree more! I personally can't even start to describe how
valuable Justin's
feedback was and is for the podling communities I help to mentor. In no way my
remark on mentors who don't vote was aimed at Justin -- he's one huge exception
to that rule.
Now with the above out of the way -- for everybody else ;-) I'm
actually curious to run the
analysis I suggested earlier, because with a a few exception like
yourself my gut is telling
me that not many IPMC members vote outside of poldings they mentor.
I may be wrong, but I, myself, certainly fit in that profile.
Thanks,
Roman.
P.S. And to be clear, for podlings with 3+ mentors relying on mentors
to get those votes
may be much more reasonable anyway. Perhaps that's the commitment expectations
that would be useful to make more explicit. It certainly helps a great
deal to get free standing
IPMC votes, but I'd rather have a stronger expectations for mentors.
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Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Sterling Hughes <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> I just want to clarify here on the thread —- while I think in general there
> may be problems with too many podlings/inactive mentors, that is not an
> issue we often face.
Justin Mclean has voted on so many releases over the last several years, he is
the HERO of the Incubator. Justin should never buy his own beer at ApacheCon
ever again!
How many podlings owe their timely releases to Justin? How many Mentors who
have failed to vote on releases has he rescued?
So Justin was busy this one time. So what. As Sterling says above, this is
not a trend. Justin, Greg Stein, and Sterling have all been extremely active,
and all four Mynewt Mentors have voted on previous releases. If you're
looking at Mynewt and seeing the Incubator burning down, that says more about
your perspective than it does about either Mynewt or the state of the
Incubator.
Here's a suggestion: When the next Mynewt release candidate hits, if Justin
is still busy, how about some of the people who owe him big-time help him out?
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
Yeah... kind of hard for me to vote while I was on vacation last week.
Didn't happen, but that is not a problem.
As Justin notes, our job is to *mentor* ... that doesn't mean we are
obligated to vote. Voting on a release implies a large commitment to
downloading the tarball, building, deploying, testing, etc. And Mynewt is
not the easiest of our projects ... "configure; make; make install" isn't
even *close* to what is needed. I've got some hardware bits that I could
use for testing, but have not found the time to get the whole cycle set up.
Being unable to *test* the bits, that means I cannot offer my +1. But
damned sure that I've been providing oversight on the Mynewt podling as it
turns the crank.
A +1 vote means "I've downloaded, verified, built, tested, etc". Mentors
are more about *community* rather than the code. (I like mynewt and plan to
deploy it, but that is irrelevant to the matter at hand)
So I'm gonna ask that y'all ease up and re-examine what release voting
really means.
Cheers,
-g
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:10 PM, Sterling Hughes <st...@apache.org>
wrote:
> I just want to clarify here on the thread —- while I think in general
> there may be problems with too many podlings/inactive mentors, that is not
> an issue we often face.
>
> It is simply that this release came at a time when some of our mentors
> were busy, and we want to get a release out the door— and I was looking for
> others on the incubator PMC to help us ship it. Hopefully some folks can
> step in.
>
> If this were to happen on every release, it would be a problem. This is
> our 4th release, and the first time it’s happened — generally everyone has
> been engaged and very helpful.
>
> Best,
>
> Sterling
>
>
> On 27 May 2016, at 18:05, John D. Ament wrote:
>
> I can agree that there's an issue with the overall number of podlings
>> around. However, I don't agree with telling a podling that the IPMC isn't
>> going to look at your vote and that your mentors should do that.
>>
>> The funny thing though, MyNewt has more than the recommended 3 mentors,
>> yet
>> this is still a problem for them.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:59 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I respectfully disagree... One of the main reasons we went from 1 to 3
>>>> recommended mentors, way back in the days, was that those 3 would be the
>>>> primary people to ping for binding votes, without limiting the rest of
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>> IPMC to do so.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Huge +1 to the above! If your mentors can't be bothered to vote --
>>> there's something
>>> seriously wrong.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Roman.
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Sterling Hughes <st...@apache.org>.
I just want to clarify here on the thread \u2014- while I think in general
there may be problems with too many podlings/inactive mentors, that is
not an issue we often face.
It is simply that this release came at a time when some of our mentors
were busy, and we want to get a release out the door\u2014 and I was
looking for others on the incubator PMC to help us ship it. Hopefully
some folks can step in.
If this were to happen on every release, it would be a problem. This is
our 4th release, and the first time it\u2019s happened \u2014 generally
everyone has been engaged and very helpful.
Best,
Sterling
On 27 May 2016, at 18:05, John D. Ament wrote:
> I can agree that there's an issue with the overall number of podlings
> around. However, I don't agree with telling a podling that the IPMC
> isn't
> going to look at your vote and that your mentors should do that.
>
> The funny thing though, MyNewt has more than the recommended 3
> mentors, yet
> this is still a problem for them.
>
> John
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:59 PM Roman Shaposhnik
> <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>
>> wrote:
>>> I respectfully disagree... One of the main reasons we went from 1 to
>>> 3
>>> recommended mentors, way back in the days, was that those 3 would be
>>> the
>>> primary people to ping for binding votes, without limiting the rest
>>> of
>> the
>>> IPMC to do so.
>>
>> Huge +1 to the above! If your mentors can't be bothered to vote --
>> there's something
>> seriously wrong.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>>
>>
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Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by "P. Taylor Goetz" <pt...@gmail.com>.
I will admit to being somewhat of a quiet mentor for Mynewt, particularly with respect to vetting releases. I have been monitoring the community and signing off on reports.
I've often seen more experienced mentors vote on releases, and held back on voting based on trust in them. I'll try to do a better job or scale back on projects I'm mentoring.
-Taylor
>> On May 27, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 6:05 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
>> I can agree that there's an issue with the overall number of podlings
>> around. However, I don't agree with telling a podling that the IPMC isn't
>> going to look at your vote and that your mentors should do that.
>
> Well, a quick recap of the IPMC voting record cross-referenced with
> who's a metor
> of which project may be helpful to see what's really going on.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
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Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 6:05 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> I can agree that there's an issue with the overall number of podlings
> around. However, I don't agree with telling a podling that the IPMC isn't
> going to look at your vote and that your mentors should do that.
Well, a quick recap of the IPMC voting record cross-referenced with
who's a metor
of which project may be helpful to see what's really going on.
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>.
I can agree that there's an issue with the overall number of podlings
around. However, I don't agree with telling a podling that the IPMC isn't
going to look at your vote and that your mentors should do that.
The funny thing though, MyNewt has more than the recommended 3 mentors, yet
this is still a problem for them.
John
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:59 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>
> wrote:
> > I respectfully disagree... One of the main reasons we went from 1 to 3
> > recommended mentors, way back in the days, was that those 3 would be the
> > primary people to ping for binding votes, without limiting the rest of
> the
> > IPMC to do so.
>
> Huge +1 to the above! If your mentors can't be bothered to vote --
> there's something
> seriously wrong.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Number of projects in Incubation [was: [VOTE] Release Apache
Mynewt 0.9.0-incubating-rc1]
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> I respectfully disagree... One of the main reasons we went from 1 to 3
> recommended mentors, way back in the days, was that those 3 would be the
> primary people to ping for binding votes, without limiting the rest of the
> IPMC to do so.
Huge +1 to the above! If your mentors can't be bothered to vote --
there's something
seriously wrong.
Thanks,
Roman.
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