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Posted to dev@curator.apache.org by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> on 2013/07/22 19:15:25 UTC
[VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world. Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate from the Incubator.
The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The complete graduation process is described below [1].
Please cast your votes:
[ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
[ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
[ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
Thank you,
Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jay Zarfoss <jz...@netflix.com>.
+1
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:44 AM, Eric Tschetter <ec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> On Monday, July 22, 2013, Patrick Hunt wrote:
>
> > +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman
> > <jordan@jordanzimmerman.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013.
> Since
> > then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse
> > organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three
> > releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the
> excellent
> > mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to
> > self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices.
> Curator
> > continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the
> world.
> > Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate
> > from the Incubator.
> > >
> > > The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that
> Curator
> > is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board
> > resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The
> > complete graduation process is described below [1].
> > >
> > > Please cast your votes:
> > >
> > > [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> > > [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> > > [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
> > >
> > > This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
> > >
> > > [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
> > >
> >
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Eric Tschetter <ec...@gmail.com>.
+1
On Monday, July 22, 2013, Patrick Hunt wrote:
> +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
>
> Patrick
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman
> <jordan@jordanzimmerman.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since
> then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse
> organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three
> releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent
> mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to
> self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator
> continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world.
> Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate
> from the Incubator.
> >
> > The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator
> is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board
> resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The
> complete graduation process is described below [1].
> >
> > Please cast your votes:
> >
> > [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> > [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> > [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
> >
> > This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
> >
> > [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
> >
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Eric Tschetter <ch...@apache.org>.
+1, I sent this earlier, but was told that it was not delivered so am
sending again using my apache.org account. If this actually gets delivered
twice, I expect the votes to be added together and squared to a full +4.
--Eric
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
>
> Patrick
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman
> <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> > The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since
> then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse
> organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three
> releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent
> mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to
> self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator
> continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world.
> Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate
> from the Incubator.
> >
> > The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator
> is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board
> resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The
> complete graduation process is described below [1].
> >
> > Please cast your votes:
> >
> > [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> > [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> > [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
> >
> > This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
> >
> > [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
> >
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org>.
+1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
Patrick
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman
<jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world. Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate from the Incubator.
>
> The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The complete graduation process is described below [1].
>
> Please cast your votes:
>
> [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
>
> This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com>.
+1
Sent from my iPhone
On 22 Ιουλ 2013, at 20:15, Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world. Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate from the Incubator.
>
> The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The complete graduation process is described below [1].
>
> Please cast your votes:
>
> [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
>
> This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
>
Fwd: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
FYI - The Curator community is taking an initial vote regarding graduation.
-Jordan
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>
> Subject: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
> Date: July 22, 2013 10:15:25 AM PDT
> To: "dev@curator.incubator.apache.org" <de...@curator.incubator.apache.org>
>
> The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world. Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate from the Incubator.
>
> The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The complete graduation process is described below [1].
>
> Please cast your votes:
>
> [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
>
> This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Mahadev Konar <ma...@hortonworks.com>.
+1 for graduation.
thanks
mahadev
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> wrote:
> I'll re-iterate my +1. I don't see anything here that changes my mind.
> Incubation is to "Ensure all donations are in accordance with the ASF
> legal standards" and "Develop new communities that adhere to our
> guiding principles" both of these have been met. There are more than 3
> independent committers (4 actually), which is more than enough. A
> number of releases have been created and they demonstrate the
> community understands Apache. "X more months" as a podling is not
> necessary, community can continue to be built as a TLP.
>
> I see ten organizations listed on the poweredby page:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CURATOR/Powered+By The
> likelyhood of abandonment seems low. And even if the project is
> abandoned it's not a big deal. We have a process for that (attic). It
> happens.
>
> Patrick
>
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:13 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While Apache considers a release to be source code, the rest of the world
>>> considers a release to be JAR files on Maven Central. Unless I'm mistaken,
>>> releasing the binaries before a vote completes would not be an acceptable
>>> thing to do.
>>>
>>> -JZ
>>
>>
>>
>> Although some documentation says that Apache considers a release to be
>> source code, most of the java projects I have worked with considers a
>> release to be both source and artifact binaries. And you are correct about
>> release timing, no release artifact should be released before the vote
>> completes. Having said that, I have worked in projects that I needed a
>> release every two days, and I was updating my development (pre-production)
>> environment with manual (internal) releases, and would wait for the full
>> release when I needed to go to production.
>>
>> --
>> Luciano Resende
>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org>.
I'll re-iterate my +1. I don't see anything here that changes my mind.
Incubation is to "Ensure all donations are in accordance with the ASF
legal standards" and "Develop new communities that adhere to our
guiding principles" both of these have been met. There are more than 3
independent committers (4 actually), which is more than enough. A
number of releases have been created and they demonstrate the
community understands Apache. "X more months" as a podling is not
necessary, community can continue to be built as a TLP.
I see ten organizations listed on the poweredby page:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CURATOR/Powered+By The
likelyhood of abandonment seems low. And even if the project is
abandoned it's not a big deal. We have a process for that (attic). It
happens.
Patrick
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:13 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> While Apache considers a release to be source code, the rest of the world
>> considers a release to be JAR files on Maven Central. Unless I'm mistaken,
>> releasing the binaries before a vote completes would not be an acceptable
>> thing to do.
>>
>> -JZ
>
>
>
> Although some documentation says that Apache considers a release to be
> source code, most of the java projects I have worked with considers a
> release to be both source and artifact binaries. And you are correct about
> release timing, no release artifact should be released before the vote
> completes. Having said that, I have worked in projects that I needed a
> release every two days, and I was updating my development (pre-production)
> environment with manual (internal) releases, and would wait for the full
> release when I needed to go to production.
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:13 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> While Apache considers a release to be source code, the rest of the world
> considers a release to be JAR files on Maven Central. Unless I'm mistaken,
> releasing the binaries before a vote completes would not be an acceptable
> thing to do.
>
> -JZ
Although some documentation says that Apache considers a release to be
source code, most of the java projects I have worked with considers a
release to be both source and artifact binaries. And you are correct about
release timing, no release artifact should be released before the vote
completes. Having said that, I have worked in projects that I needed a
release every two days, and I was updating my development (pre-production)
environment with manual (internal) releases, and would wait for the full
release when I needed to go to production.
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
While Apache considers a release to be source code, the rest of the world considers a release to be JAR files on Maven Central. Unless I'm mistaken, releasing the binaries before a vote completes would not be an acceptable thing to do.
-JZ
On Jul 24, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think that a release vote should block patches getting applied, we
> have very advance SCM that have well known patterns to overcome that.
>
> But I agree, the vote thing can be blamed on the mentors, we were all on
> vacation or busy with other commitments.
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Eric Tschetter <ec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know about Jordan's full motivations, but I can say from my
> perspective it really sucked that I gave him a bunch of patches in early
> April, they didn't get applied until May because we were waiting on a
> release vote for 2.0.0, which was the exact same code as what was the most
> current, stable version on github. Then when we decided we were ready to
> release the changes (prompted by a user wanting a fix in an artifact they
> could actually depend on), we sat there for two weeks waiting on a release
> vote from the mentors, who had to be prompted multiple times and I don't
> believe know the code or have any real understanding about whether it is
> fit for release.
>
>
I don't think that a release vote should block patches getting applied, we
have very advance SCM that have well known patterns to overcome that.
But I agree, the vote thing can be blamed on the mentors, we were all on
vacation or busy with other commitments.
> During that two weeks the code sat, it aged a bit like wine, except when we
> uncorked it, it hadn't actually changed.
During this whole time from April, I maintained my own fork of the project
> outside of apache with artifacts deployed to my own artifactory because I
> am not willing to slow down my development cycle.
>
> I guess you are now a committer, and are much more free to get those
changes in when you feel comfortable, and actually start release votes.
> So far, my impression of the transfer to Apache is that it is now more
> painful to actually get changes into a state where other things can depend
> on them, which seems like the opposite of what you want to increase
> adoption of a library.
>
>
I believe there are two (maybe three) things that can slow a project down a
bit in Apache :
- Votes usually have to wait 72 hours (and during incubation, double of
that)
- Any issue that you require help from Infrastructure team.
- Making consensus on project direction (which you guys haven't
experienced any yet)
> All of this is aside from the general feeling that its significantly more
> difficult to actually interact with Apache infrastructure than GitHub, but
> that won't be fixed by becoming a TLP.
>
Well, I really think this is a amazing project community, Jordan has been
doing a tremendous job on the last few months here in Apache, but I just
want to make sure the new committers are familiar with the "Apache Way" and
can handle the project (e.g. by doing releases and adding new community
members to the project), and couple more months here should not make any
perceptible impact to the project, and as a Mentor I'll make sure that this
is true and new votes and other issues that requires mentor attention are
resolved asap within the process time frame.
Hope that you guys decide to stay.
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Evaristo José Camarero <ev...@yahoo.es>.
+1
Said that:
Thanks to Jordan for your work, for the effort and for being so responsive.
Honestly, if I were Jordan I would like to receive more encouraging words from some Apache mentors. Sometimes the blocking issue for a release has been that 5 lines description is missing in the web or similar things. That's also important but probably can be managed in a different way, without blocking the project milestones
Regards,
Evaristo
________________________________
De: Eric Tschetter <ec...@gmail.com>
Para: "dev@curator.incubator.apache.org" <de...@curator.incubator.apache.org>
Enviado: Jueves 25 de julio de 2013 8:17
Asunto: Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013, Enis Söztutar wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Eric Tschetter <echeddar@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> > I don't know about Jordan's full motivations, but I can say from my
> > perspective it really sucked that I gave him a bunch of patches in early
> > April, they didn't get applied until May because we were waiting on a
> > release vote for 2.0.0, which was the exact same code as what was the
> most
> > current, stable version on github. Then when we decided we were ready to
> > release the changes (prompted by a user wanting a fix in an artifact they
> > could actually depend on), we sat there for two weeks waiting on a
> release
> > vote from the mentors, who had to be prompted multiple times and I don't
> > believe know the code or have any real understanding about whether it is
> > fit for release.
> >
> > During that two weeks the code sat, it aged a bit like wine, except when
> we
> > uncorked it, it hadn't actually changed.
> >
>
> Eric, there is no technical reason why the commits have to be frozen while
> a release candidate is going on. You can just create a branch for the
> candidate release, and keep on committing to master branches.
>
> As one of the mentors, I am sorry to cause that. But remember that the
> mentors and other committers might have other duties and day jobs. The
> rational for 72 hours for the voting has been explained several times. It
> is there to give every body, and people in other time zones a chance to
> test and verify the release candidate.
>
>
> >
> > During this whole time from April, I maintained my own fork of the
> project
> > outside of apache with artifacts deployed to my own artifactory because I
> > am not willing to slow down my development cycle.
> >
> > So far, my impression of the transfer to Apache is that it is now more
> > painful to actually get changes into a state where other things can
> depend
> > on them, which seems like the opposite of what you want to increase
> > adoption of a library.
> >
>
> This is a matter of using SCM correctly. Nothing is specific about Apache
> process. You can create as many branches as you need, and people can
> collaborate on these.
Perhaps there is miscommunication here. I completely understand that I can
continue modifying the code in a branch, that is not the problem. The
problem is that for my other projects to use my code I need a jar in maven.
A jar in maven means I need a tag in SCM and that tag should be a proper
release artifact.
This is the way that my world operates right now. We do not build from
source and include those dependencies, we declare dependencies on pre-built
artifacts that have a well-known tag backing them in case modifications
need to be made. The way to make these artifacts is to cut a release. A
release might have bugs, it might not be entirely correct, but it is a
frozen snapshot of the code with a well-known artifact built around it.
The existence of bugs is less important because we use semantic versioning
to communicate the binary compatibility of the release. Numbers are cheap,
slowing down development and progress is expensive.
>
> >
> > All of this is aside from the general feeling that its significantly more
> > difficult to actually interact with Apache infrastructure than GitHub,
> but
> > that won't be fixed by becoming a TLP.
> >
>
> That is generally true. Though, having seen many large projects (hadoop,
> lucene, hbase, etc) I think that it is not as bad.
The existence of people who have overcome some adversity is not an
indication that said adversity is (a) warranted or (b) a good thing.
That said, I will stick by Jordan in whichever decision he takes. Curator
is a body of code that makes it easier to use ZK, I'll continue with it and
operate in whatever world I need to operate in whether it is labelled
Apache or not. I personally find Apache has made it harder to make changes
and push the project forward (even as a committer, there are technical
infrastructure hurdles that get in my way, mostly the lack of a
fork/edit/pull request work flow with built-in code review tools, I.e.
github).
I offered my thoughts as an answer to what I think would improve as a TLP.
I'm not trying to flame nor am I trying to actually push an agenda. These
are my candid thoughts as someone who has primarily only interacted with
the current young, inexperienced, bleeding edge of how Open Source
can operate.
--Eric
>
>
> >
> > --Eric
> >
> > On Wednesday, July 24, 2013, Luciano Resende wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> > > jordan@jordanzimmerman.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am quickly coming to the conclusion that it was a mistake to put
> > > Curator
> > > > into Apache. I was cautioned by many colleagues that I shouldn't do
> it
> > > and
> > > > I now understand why they were correct. I'm not interested in
> another 3
> > > > months of incubation.
> > > >
> > > > What is the process for failing out of incubation so that Curator can
> > > > continue outside of Apache?
> > > >
> > > > ====================
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > How do you see the project changing when it becomes a TLP ? Or, let me
> > put
> > > in another way, what issue do you have as having it as an "Incubator"
> > > project for couple more months ?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Luciano Resende
> > > http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> > > http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> > > http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> > >
> >
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Eric Tschetter <ec...@gmail.com>.
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013, Enis Söztutar wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Eric Tschetter <echeddar@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> > I don't know about Jordan's full motivations, but I can say from my
> > perspective it really sucked that I gave him a bunch of patches in early
> > April, they didn't get applied until May because we were waiting on a
> > release vote for 2.0.0, which was the exact same code as what was the
> most
> > current, stable version on github. Then when we decided we were ready to
> > release the changes (prompted by a user wanting a fix in an artifact they
> > could actually depend on), we sat there for two weeks waiting on a
> release
> > vote from the mentors, who had to be prompted multiple times and I don't
> > believe know the code or have any real understanding about whether it is
> > fit for release.
> >
> > During that two weeks the code sat, it aged a bit like wine, except when
> we
> > uncorked it, it hadn't actually changed.
> >
>
> Eric, there is no technical reason why the commits have to be frozen while
> a release candidate is going on. You can just create a branch for the
> candidate release, and keep on committing to master branches.
>
> As one of the mentors, I am sorry to cause that. But remember that the
> mentors and other committers might have other duties and day jobs. The
> rational for 72 hours for the voting has been explained several times. It
> is there to give every body, and people in other time zones a chance to
> test and verify the release candidate.
>
>
> >
> > During this whole time from April, I maintained my own fork of the
> project
> > outside of apache with artifacts deployed to my own artifactory because I
> > am not willing to slow down my development cycle.
> >
> > So far, my impression of the transfer to Apache is that it is now more
> > painful to actually get changes into a state where other things can
> depend
> > on them, which seems like the opposite of what you want to increase
> > adoption of a library.
> >
>
> This is a matter of using SCM correctly. Nothing is specific about Apache
> process. You can create as many branches as you need, and people can
> collaborate on these.
Perhaps there is miscommunication here. I completely understand that I can
continue modifying the code in a branch, that is not the problem. The
problem is that for my other projects to use my code I need a jar in maven.
A jar in maven means I need a tag in SCM and that tag should be a proper
release artifact.
This is the way that my world operates right now. We do not build from
source and include those dependencies, we declare dependencies on pre-built
artifacts that have a well-known tag backing them in case modifications
need to be made. The way to make these artifacts is to cut a release. A
release might have bugs, it might not be entirely correct, but it is a
frozen snapshot of the code with a well-known artifact built around it.
The existence of bugs is less important because we use semantic versioning
to communicate the binary compatibility of the release. Numbers are cheap,
slowing down development and progress is expensive.
>
> >
> > All of this is aside from the general feeling that its significantly more
> > difficult to actually interact with Apache infrastructure than GitHub,
> but
> > that won't be fixed by becoming a TLP.
> >
>
> That is generally true. Though, having seen many large projects (hadoop,
> lucene, hbase, etc) I think that it is not as bad.
The existence of people who have overcome some adversity is not an
indication that said adversity is (a) warranted or (b) a good thing.
That said, I will stick by Jordan in whichever decision he takes. Curator
is a body of code that makes it easier to use ZK, I'll continue with it and
operate in whatever world I need to operate in whether it is labelled
Apache or not. I personally find Apache has made it harder to make changes
and push the project forward (even as a committer, there are technical
infrastructure hurdles that get in my way, mostly the lack of a
fork/edit/pull request work flow with built-in code review tools, I.e.
github).
I offered my thoughts as an answer to what I think would improve as a TLP.
I'm not trying to flame nor am I trying to actually push an agenda. These
are my candid thoughts as someone who has primarily only interacted with
the current young, inexperienced, bleeding edge of how Open Source
can operate.
--Eric
>
>
> >
> > --Eric
> >
> > On Wednesday, July 24, 2013, Luciano Resende wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> > > jordan@jordanzimmerman.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am quickly coming to the conclusion that it was a mistake to put
> > > Curator
> > > > into Apache. I was cautioned by many colleagues that I shouldn't do
> it
> > > and
> > > > I now understand why they were correct. I'm not interested in
> another 3
> > > > months of incubation.
> > > >
> > > > What is the process for failing out of incubation so that Curator can
> > > > continue outside of Apache?
> > > >
> > > > ====================
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > How do you see the project changing when it becomes a TLP ? Or, let me
> > put
> > > in another way, what issue do you have as having it as an "Incubator"
> > > project for couple more months ?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Luciano Resende
> > > http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> > > http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> > > http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> > >
> >
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
This is besides the point. Curator is consumed as JARs on Maven Central. As an aside, Apache is way out of step with advances in the open source community. It is incredibly unusual to consume an OSS project as source code today. OSS projects are consumed using a dependency management system such as Maven/Gradle and it's consumed as binaries.
-Jordan
On Jul 24, 2013, at 7:48 PM, Enis Söztutar <en...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Eric, there is no technical reason why the commits have to be frozen while
> a release candidate is going on. You can just create a branch for the
> candidate release, and keep on committing to master branches.
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Enis Söztutar <en...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Eric Tschetter <ec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know about Jordan's full motivations, but I can say from my
> perspective it really sucked that I gave him a bunch of patches in early
> April, they didn't get applied until May because we were waiting on a
> release vote for 2.0.0, which was the exact same code as what was the most
> current, stable version on github. Then when we decided we were ready to
> release the changes (prompted by a user wanting a fix in an artifact they
> could actually depend on), we sat there for two weeks waiting on a release
> vote from the mentors, who had to be prompted multiple times and I don't
> believe know the code or have any real understanding about whether it is
> fit for release.
>
> During that two weeks the code sat, it aged a bit like wine, except when we
> uncorked it, it hadn't actually changed.
>
Eric, there is no technical reason why the commits have to be frozen while
a release candidate is going on. You can just create a branch for the
candidate release, and keep on committing to master branches.
As one of the mentors, I am sorry to cause that. But remember that the
mentors and other committers might have other duties and day jobs. The
rational for 72 hours for the voting has been explained several times. It
is there to give every body, and people in other time zones a chance to
test and verify the release candidate.
>
> During this whole time from April, I maintained my own fork of the project
> outside of apache with artifacts deployed to my own artifactory because I
> am not willing to slow down my development cycle.
>
> So far, my impression of the transfer to Apache is that it is now more
> painful to actually get changes into a state where other things can depend
> on them, which seems like the opposite of what you want to increase
> adoption of a library.
>
This is a matter of using SCM correctly. Nothing is specific about Apache
process. You can create as many branches as you need, and people can
collaborate on these.
>
> All of this is aside from the general feeling that its significantly more
> difficult to actually interact with Apache infrastructure than GitHub, but
> that won't be fixed by becoming a TLP.
>
That is generally true. Though, having seen many large projects (hadoop,
lucene, hbase, etc) I think that it is not as bad.
>
> --Eric
>
> On Wednesday, July 24, 2013, Luciano Resende wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> > jordan@jordanzimmerman.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > I am quickly coming to the conclusion that it was a mistake to put
> > Curator
> > > into Apache. I was cautioned by many colleagues that I shouldn't do it
> > and
> > > I now understand why they were correct. I'm not interested in another 3
> > > months of incubation.
> > >
> > > What is the process for failing out of incubation so that Curator can
> > > continue outside of Apache?
> > >
> > > ====================
> > >
> >
> >
> > How do you see the project changing when it becomes a TLP ? Or, let me
> put
> > in another way, what issue do you have as having it as an "Incubator"
> > project for couple more months ?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Luciano Resende
> > http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> > http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> > http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> >
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Enis Söztutar <en...@gmail.com>.
I am glad that we were able to resolve the issues. Thanks for the
discussion.
Enis
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> wrote:
> Great solution and helpful for reaching consensus. +1.
>
> Patrick
>
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Jordan Zimmerman
> <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> > That sounds good. The only thing is that I don't think we have much for
> a release at the moment. I'll check and get back to everyone.
> >
> > -JZ
> >
> > On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I think you can leave this vote open, and once the release is done and a
> >> new committer is added from a different committer I can just turn my
> vote
> >> to a +1...
> >>
> >> Thoughts ?
> >
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org>.
Great solution and helpful for reaching consensus. +1.
Patrick
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Jordan Zimmerman
<jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> That sounds good. The only thing is that I don't think we have much for a release at the moment. I'll check and get back to everyone.
>
> -JZ
>
> On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think you can leave this vote open, and once the release is done and a
>> new committer is added from a different committer I can just turn my vote
>> to a +1...
>>
>> Thoughts ?
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
That sounds good. The only thing is that I don't think we have much for a release at the moment. I'll check and get back to everyone.
-JZ
On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you can leave this vote open, and once the release is done and a
> new committer is added from a different committer I can just turn my vote
> to a +1...
>
> Thoughts ?
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org>.
Take a look at this section:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#tlp-community-vote
and the next "Preparing a Charter" (etc...)
Patrick
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Jordan Zimmerman
<jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> Do we create the resolution now or after the general@ vote? The Incubator website isn't very clear. i.e. do I just start a similar vote to the one we just had or is it different and, if so, in what ways?
>
> -JZ
>
> On Aug 21, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> I assume now I close the vote and move it to general@, right?
>>>
>>> -Jordan
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Luciano Resende
>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
Do we create the resolution now or after the general@ vote? The Incubator website isn't very clear. i.e. do I just start a similar vote to the one we just had or is it different and, if so, in what ways?
-JZ
On Aug 21, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> I assume now I close the vote and move it to general@, right?
>>
>> -Jordan
>>
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> Thank you.
>
> I assume now I close the vote and move it to general@, right?
>
> -Jordan
>
Yes.
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
Thank you.
I assume now I close the vote and move it to general@, right?
-Jordan
On Aug 21, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm OK with the current set of mentors becoming part of the PMC. How does
>> this work, though? Is there a vote on this?
>>
>>
> Not necessarily, can be part of the discussion of the Project Resolution.
>
> Based on this, I'm changing my vote to +1 for Graduation.
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> I'm OK with the current set of mentors becoming part of the PMC. How does
> this work, though? Is there a vote on this?
>
>
Not necessarily, can be part of the discussion of the Project Resolution.
Based on this, I'm changing my vote to +1 for Graduation.
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
I'm OK with the current set of mentors becoming part of the PMC. How does this work, though? Is there a vote on this?
-JZ
On Aug 21, 2013, at 1:41 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> My reading of the Incubator graduation process suggested we have the vote,
>> then draft a resolution. Also, I don't see where it describes how the PMC
>> is nominated. Can you point me (or describe) to the docs for this?
>>
>> -JZ
>>
>
> Basically the PPMC becomes the TLP project PMC with mentors
> being discretionary. Having said that, if the mentors are going to be part
> of the PMC, which they would provide any additional oversight on the
> community aspects of the project, I'd be changing my vote to support the
> Curator graduation now.
>
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> My reading of the Incubator graduation process suggested we have the vote,
> then draft a resolution. Also, I don't see where it describes how the PMC
> is nominated. Can you point me (or describe) to the docs for this?
>
> -JZ
>
Basically the PPMC becomes the TLP project PMC with mentors
being discretionary. Having said that, if the mentors are going to be part
of the PMC, which they would provide any additional oversight on the
community aspects of the project, I'd be changing my vote to support the
Curator graduation now.
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
My reading of the Incubator graduation process suggested we have the vote, then draft a resolution. Also, I don't see where it describes how the PMC is nominated. Can you point me (or describe) to the docs for this?
-JZ
On Aug 21, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looks like we are getting consensus around graduation. As we haven't seen a
> draft resolution yet, who are the members that are going to be part of the
> PMC ?
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2013, at 4:18 AM, Enis Söztutar <en...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Back from a long break.
>>>
>>> With the release and commit activity from Ioannis, I am much more
>> confident
>>> about the future of the project than in July. I would like to change my
>>> vote to +1, given that there is strong belief from active committers that
>>> this will provide a better infrastructure for the project.
>>>
>>> Feel free to start a VOTE on incubator-general with a link to this
>> thread.
>>>
>>> Enis
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any other comments? Mentors? Luciano had a reply but no other mentors.
>>>>
>>>> -JZ
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 6:23 AM, Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Typically, we have all we need in order to graduate.
>>>>>
>>>>> More committers are always welcome, but its not the numbers we are
>>>>> missing, its the activity.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Luciano Resende <luckbr1975@gmail.com
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>>>>>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, Ioannis has done a successful release. In order to change
>>>> Luciano's -1
>>>>>>> to a 1 we need to get a committer proposed from someone other than
>> me.
>>>> That
>>>>>>> could take a long time. Either I close the vote now and take it to
>>>> @general
>>>>>>> (with Luciano's -1 and Ennis's +0) or I cancel the vote and we wait.
>>>> I'll
>>>>>>> remind this list that we just sat through another 6+ day release
>> which
>>>>>>> could have been done in 1/2 that time if we were TLP. For me, I don't
>>>> see
>>>>>>> any value in staying in Incubator. I'd like to take the vote to
>>>> @general
>>>>>>> but I'm concerned about our success given the +0 and -1 from two
>>>> mentors.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -JZ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> To me, one of the things about "The Apache Way" is that we value
>>>> community
>>>>>> over code. When I requested someone other then Jordan to do a release
>>>> and
>>>>>> follow the committer process I wanted to make sure that others on the
>>>>>> community were familiar and able to get releases out and build the
>>>>>> community around the Apache Curator code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, I'm not sure why you have concerns with the time it might take
>> to
>>>> get
>>>>>> a new committer onboard to the project, as I see a lot of interest
>> from
>>>> the
>>>>>> community to the Apache Curator project, so it might be a matter of
>>>>>> mentoring and nurturing existing contributors to become committers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for submitting this to @general, please feel free to do what you
>>>> think
>>>>>> it's better for you and for the project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Luciano Resende
>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>>>>>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ioannis Canellos
>>>>>
>>>>> Blog: http://iocanel.blogspot.com
>>>>> Twitter: iocanel
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
Looks like we are getting consensus around graduation. As we haven't seen a
draft resolution yet, who are the members that are going to be part of the
PMC ?
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> Thank you!
>
> On Aug 21, 2013, at 4:18 AM, Enis Söztutar <en...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Back from a long break.
> >
> > With the release and commit activity from Ioannis, I am much more
> confident
> > about the future of the project than in July. I would like to change my
> > vote to +1, given that there is strong belief from active committers that
> > this will provide a better infrastructure for the project.
> >
> > Feel free to start a VOTE on incubator-general with a link to this
> thread.
> >
> > Enis
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> > jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Any other comments? Mentors? Luciano had a reply but no other mentors.
> >>
> >> -JZ
> >>
> >> On Aug 12, 2013, at 6:23 AM, Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Typically, we have all we need in order to graduate.
> >>>
> >>> More committers are always welcome, but its not the numbers we are
> >>> missing, its the activity.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Luciano Resende <luckbr1975@gmail.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> >>>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> So, Ioannis has done a successful release. In order to change
> >> Luciano's -1
> >>>>> to a 1 we need to get a committer proposed from someone other than
> me.
> >> That
> >>>>> could take a long time. Either I close the vote now and take it to
> >> @general
> >>>>> (with Luciano's -1 and Ennis's +0) or I cancel the vote and we wait.
> >> I'll
> >>>>> remind this list that we just sat through another 6+ day release
> which
> >>>>> could have been done in 1/2 that time if we were TLP. For me, I don't
> >> see
> >>>>> any value in staying in Incubator. I'd like to take the vote to
> >> @general
> >>>>> but I'm concerned about our success given the +0 and -1 from two
> >> mentors.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -JZ
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> To me, one of the things about "The Apache Way" is that we value
> >> community
> >>>> over code. When I requested someone other then Jordan to do a release
> >> and
> >>>> follow the committer process I wanted to make sure that others on the
> >>>> community were familiar and able to get releases out and build the
> >>>> community around the Apache Curator code.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also, I'm not sure why you have concerns with the time it might take
> to
> >> get
> >>>> a new committer onboard to the project, as I see a lot of interest
> from
> >> the
> >>>> community to the Apache Curator project, so it might be a matter of
> >>>> mentoring and nurturing existing contributors to become committers.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for submitting this to @general, please feel free to do what you
> >> think
> >>>> it's better for you and for the project.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Luciano Resende
> >>>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> >>>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> >>>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Ioannis Canellos
> >>>
> >>> Blog: http://iocanel.blogspot.com
> >>> Twitter: iocanel
> >>
> >>
>
>
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
Thank you!
On Aug 21, 2013, at 4:18 AM, Enis Söztutar <en...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Back from a long break.
>
> With the release and commit activity from Ioannis, I am much more confident
> about the future of the project than in July. I would like to change my
> vote to +1, given that there is strong belief from active committers that
> this will provide a better infrastructure for the project.
>
> Feel free to start a VOTE on incubator-general with a link to this thread.
>
> Enis
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> Any other comments? Mentors? Luciano had a reply but no other mentors.
>>
>> -JZ
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 6:23 AM, Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Typically, we have all we need in order to graduate.
>>>
>>> More committers are always welcome, but its not the numbers we are
>>> missing, its the activity.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>>>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So, Ioannis has done a successful release. In order to change
>> Luciano's -1
>>>>> to a 1 we need to get a committer proposed from someone other than me.
>> That
>>>>> could take a long time. Either I close the vote now and take it to
>> @general
>>>>> (with Luciano's -1 and Ennis's +0) or I cancel the vote and we wait.
>> I'll
>>>>> remind this list that we just sat through another 6+ day release which
>>>>> could have been done in 1/2 that time if we were TLP. For me, I don't
>> see
>>>>> any value in staying in Incubator. I'd like to take the vote to
>> @general
>>>>> but I'm concerned about our success given the +0 and -1 from two
>> mentors.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>> -JZ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> To me, one of the things about "The Apache Way" is that we value
>> community
>>>> over code. When I requested someone other then Jordan to do a release
>> and
>>>> follow the committer process I wanted to make sure that others on the
>>>> community were familiar and able to get releases out and build the
>>>> community around the Apache Curator code.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I'm not sure why you have concerns with the time it might take to
>> get
>>>> a new committer onboard to the project, as I see a lot of interest from
>> the
>>>> community to the Apache Curator project, so it might be a matter of
>>>> mentoring and nurturing existing contributors to become committers.
>>>>
>>>> As for submitting this to @general, please feel free to do what you
>> think
>>>> it's better for you and for the project.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Luciano Resende
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>>>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>>>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ioannis Canellos
>>>
>>> Blog: http://iocanel.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter: iocanel
>>
>>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Enis Söztutar <en...@gmail.com>.
Back from a long break.
With the release and commit activity from Ioannis, I am much more confident
about the future of the project than in July. I would like to change my
vote to +1, given that there is strong belief from active committers that
this will provide a better infrastructure for the project.
Feel free to start a VOTE on incubator-general with a link to this thread.
Enis
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> Any other comments? Mentors? Luciano had a reply but no other mentors.
>
> -JZ
>
> On Aug 12, 2013, at 6:23 AM, Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Typically, we have all we need in order to graduate.
> >
> > More committers are always welcome, but its not the numbers we are
> > missing, its the activity.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> >> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> So, Ioannis has done a successful release. In order to change
> Luciano's -1
> >>> to a 1 we need to get a committer proposed from someone other than me.
> That
> >>> could take a long time. Either I close the vote now and take it to
> @general
> >>> (with Luciano's -1 and Ennis's +0) or I cancel the vote and we wait.
> I'll
> >>> remind this list that we just sat through another 6+ day release which
> >>> could have been done in 1/2 that time if we were TLP. For me, I don't
> see
> >>> any value in staying in Incubator. I'd like to take the vote to
> @general
> >>> but I'm concerned about our success given the +0 and -1 from two
> mentors.
> >>>
> >>> I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts.
> >>>
> >>> -JZ
> >>>
> >>>
> >> To me, one of the things about "The Apache Way" is that we value
> community
> >> over code. When I requested someone other then Jordan to do a release
> and
> >> follow the committer process I wanted to make sure that others on the
> >> community were familiar and able to get releases out and build the
> >> community around the Apache Curator code.
> >>
> >> Also, I'm not sure why you have concerns with the time it might take to
> get
> >> a new committer onboard to the project, as I see a lot of interest from
> the
> >> community to the Apache Curator project, so it might be a matter of
> >> mentoring and nurturing existing contributors to become committers.
> >>
> >> As for submitting this to @general, please feel free to do what you
> think
> >> it's better for you and for the project.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> --
> >> Luciano Resende
> >> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> >> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> >> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ioannis Canellos
> >
> > Blog: http://iocanel.blogspot.com
> > Twitter: iocanel
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
Any other comments? Mentors? Luciano had a reply but no other mentors.
-JZ
On Aug 12, 2013, at 6:23 AM, Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Typically, we have all we need in order to graduate.
>
> More committers are always welcome, but its not the numbers we are
> missing, its the activity.
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So, Ioannis has done a successful release. In order to change Luciano's -1
>>> to a 1 we need to get a committer proposed from someone other than me. That
>>> could take a long time. Either I close the vote now and take it to @general
>>> (with Luciano's -1 and Ennis's +0) or I cancel the vote and we wait. I'll
>>> remind this list that we just sat through another 6+ day release which
>>> could have been done in 1/2 that time if we were TLP. For me, I don't see
>>> any value in staying in Incubator. I'd like to take the vote to @general
>>> but I'm concerned about our success given the +0 and -1 from two mentors.
>>>
>>> I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts.
>>>
>>> -JZ
>>>
>>>
>> To me, one of the things about "The Apache Way" is that we value community
>> over code. When I requested someone other then Jordan to do a release and
>> follow the committer process I wanted to make sure that others on the
>> community were familiar and able to get releases out and build the
>> community around the Apache Curator code.
>>
>> Also, I'm not sure why you have concerns with the time it might take to get
>> a new committer onboard to the project, as I see a lot of interest from the
>> community to the Apache Curator project, so it might be a matter of
>> mentoring and nurturing existing contributors to become committers.
>>
>> As for submitting this to @general, please feel free to do what you think
>> it's better for you and for the project.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> --
>> Luciano Resende
>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> --
> Ioannis Canellos
>
> Blog: http://iocanel.blogspot.com
> Twitter: iocanel
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com>.
Typically, we have all we need in order to graduate.
More committers are always welcome, but its not the numbers we are
missing, its the activity.
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> So, Ioannis has done a successful release. In order to change Luciano's -1
>> to a 1 we need to get a committer proposed from someone other than me. That
>> could take a long time. Either I close the vote now and take it to @general
>> (with Luciano's -1 and Ennis's +0) or I cancel the vote and we wait. I'll
>> remind this list that we just sat through another 6+ day release which
>> could have been done in 1/2 that time if we were TLP. For me, I don't see
>> any value in staying in Incubator. I'd like to take the vote to @general
>> but I'm concerned about our success given the +0 and -1 from two mentors.
>>
>> I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts.
>>
>> -JZ
>>
>>
> To me, one of the things about "The Apache Way" is that we value community
> over code. When I requested someone other then Jordan to do a release and
> follow the committer process I wanted to make sure that others on the
> community were familiar and able to get releases out and build the
> community around the Apache Curator code.
>
> Also, I'm not sure why you have concerns with the time it might take to get
> a new committer onboard to the project, as I see a lot of interest from the
> community to the Apache Curator project, so it might be a matter of
> mentoring and nurturing existing contributors to become committers.
>
> As for submitting this to @general, please feel free to do what you think
> it's better for you and for the project.
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
--
Ioannis Canellos
Blog: http://iocanel.blogspot.com
Twitter: iocanel
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> So, Ioannis has done a successful release. In order to change Luciano's -1
> to a 1 we need to get a committer proposed from someone other than me. That
> could take a long time. Either I close the vote now and take it to @general
> (with Luciano's -1 and Ennis's +0) or I cancel the vote and we wait. I'll
> remind this list that we just sat through another 6+ day release which
> could have been done in 1/2 that time if we were TLP. For me, I don't see
> any value in staying in Incubator. I'd like to take the vote to @general
> but I'm concerned about our success given the +0 and -1 from two mentors.
>
> I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts.
>
> -JZ
>
>
To me, one of the things about "The Apache Way" is that we value community
over code. When I requested someone other then Jordan to do a release and
follow the committer process I wanted to make sure that others on the
community were familiar and able to get releases out and build the
community around the Apache Curator code.
Also, I'm not sure why you have concerns with the time it might take to get
a new committer onboard to the project, as I see a lot of interest from the
community to the Apache Curator project, so it might be a matter of
mentoring and nurturing existing contributors to become committers.
As for submitting this to @general, please feel free to do what you think
it's better for you and for the project.
Regards
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
So, Ioannis has done a successful release. In order to change Luciano's -1 to a 1 we need to get a committer proposed from someone other than me. That could take a long time. Either I close the vote now and take it to @general (with Luciano's -1 and Ennis's +0) or I cancel the vote and we wait. I'll remind this list that we just sat through another 6+ day release which could have been done in 1/2 that time if we were TLP. For me, I don't see any value in staying in Incubator. I'd like to take the vote to @general but I'm concerned about our success given the +0 and -1 from two mentors.
I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts.
-JZ
On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for everyone's thoughtful responses on this. In retrospect, my
>> initial reply was over the top and I apologize for that. It sounds like we
>> have some agreement here. I'll cancel the current graduation vote, Ioannis
>> will handle the next release, and then I'll submit a new vote.
>>
>> -Jordan
>>
>>
> I think you can leave this vote open, and once the release is done and a
> new committer is added from a different committer I can just turn my vote
> to a +1...
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
Can you start the vote now, though? We still need to have a vote to do a release in this case (I assume) - so 72 hours times 2.
-JZ
On Jul 25, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll start on Tuesday(I am still on vacation and with crappy Internet access), so feel free to add more issues till then.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 25 Ιουλ 2013, at 21:58, Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, there's plenty for a release now:
>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12314425&version=12324635
>>
>> So, Ioannis, please start the release process. I believe you know how to do this from the other projects you're involved in.
>>
>> -JZ
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think you can leave this vote open, and once the release is done and a
>>> new committer is added from a different committer I can just turn my vote
>>> to a +1...
>>>
>>> Thoughts ?
>>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com>.
I'll start on Tuesday(I am still on vacation and with crappy Internet access), so feel free to add more issues till then.
Sent from my iPhone
On 25 Ιουλ 2013, at 21:58, Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> Actually, there's plenty for a release now:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12314425&version=12324635
>
> So, Ioannis, please start the release process. I believe you know how to do this from the other projects you're involved in.
>
> -JZ
>
> On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think you can leave this vote open, and once the release is done and a
>> new committer is added from a different committer I can just turn my vote
>> to a +1...
>>
>> Thoughts ?
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
Actually, there's plenty for a release now:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12314425&version=12324635
So, Ioannis, please start the release process. I believe you know how to do this from the other projects you're involved in.
-JZ
On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think you can leave this vote open, and once the release is done and a
> new committer is added from a different committer I can just turn my vote
> to a +1...
>
> Thoughts ?
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> Thanks for everyone's thoughtful responses on this. In retrospect, my
> initial reply was over the top and I apologize for that. It sounds like we
> have some agreement here. I'll cancel the current graduation vote, Ioannis
> will handle the next release, and then I'll submit a new vote.
>
> -Jordan
>
>
I think you can leave this vote open, and once the release is done and a
new committer is added from a different committer I can just turn my vote
to a +1...
Thoughts ?
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
Thanks for everyone's thoughtful responses on this. In retrospect, my initial reply was over the top and I apologize for that. It sounds like we have some agreement here. I'll cancel the current graduation vote, Ioannis will handle the next release, and then I'll submit a new vote.
-Jordan
On Jul 25, 2013, at 10:34 AM, Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Even though, I agree that 5 active committers is a sensible number of committers before graduation, I've seen projects being successful TLPs with less. I also don't feel that that multiple release managers are required (they are really nice to have though).
>
> I understand the discomfort of some of the mentors, so I'll volunteer to manage the next release.
>
> On the other hand I see nothing wrong with a project staying in the incubator longer. It only costs 72 hours per release and nothing more.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 25 Ιουλ 2013, at 18:38, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Eric here. The pace in Incubator is stifling. It was my
>>> understanding that the Incubator's purpose was to establish community and
>>> have a project learn the Apache Way. Curator already had a thriving
>>> community before it came into the Incubator. What is was lacking was
>>> diverse committers. Over four months we've demonstrated that we can attract
>>> new committers. I fully expect that more committers will come on when (if)
>>> Curator is a TLP.
>>>
>>> -JZ
>> I think the main issue for the project is that the mentors want to make
>> sure the new committers can move the project on in case you or some other
>> committer is not available. If we can demonstrate a release done by someone
>> other committer, and also a process of proposing and adding a new committer
>> from someone other then you, this project will have my +1 for graduation.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Luciano Resende
>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Even though, I agree that 5 active committers is a sensible number of
> committers before graduation, I've seen projects being successful TLPs with
> less. I also don't feel that that multiple release managers are required
> (they are really nice to have though).
>
I understand the discomfort of some of the mentors, so I'll volunteer to
> manage the next release.
>
> On the other hand I see nothing wrong with a project staying in the
> incubator longer. It only costs 72 hours per release and nothing more.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
+1 to all you said, and this is really the attitude I'd expect from the
project. Also, thanks for volunteering for handling the next release (which
can be done anytime).
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Ioannis Canellos <io...@gmail.com>.
Even though, I agree that 5 active committers is a sensible number of committers before graduation, I've seen projects being successful TLPs with less. I also don't feel that that multiple release managers are required (they are really nice to have though).
I understand the discomfort of some of the mentors, so I'll volunteer to manage the next release.
On the other hand I see nothing wrong with a project staying in the incubator longer. It only costs 72 hours per release and nothing more.
Sent from my iPhone
On 25 Ιουλ 2013, at 18:38, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Eric here. The pace in Incubator is stifling. It was my
>> understanding that the Incubator's purpose was to establish community and
>> have a project learn the Apache Way. Curator already had a thriving
>> community before it came into the Incubator. What is was lacking was
>> diverse committers. Over four months we've demonstrated that we can attract
>> new committers. I fully expect that more committers will come on when (if)
>> Curator is a TLP.
>>
>> -JZ
> I think the main issue for the project is that the mentors want to make
> sure the new committers can move the project on in case you or some other
> committer is not available. If we can demonstrate a release done by someone
> other committer, and also a process of proposing and adding a new committer
> from someone other then you, this project will have my +1 for graduation.
>
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> I agree with Eric here. The pace in Incubator is stifling. It was my
> understanding that the Incubator's purpose was to establish community and
> have a project learn the Apache Way. Curator already had a thriving
> community before it came into the Incubator. What is was lacking was
> diverse committers. Over four months we've demonstrated that we can attract
> new committers. I fully expect that more committers will come on when (if)
> Curator is a TLP.
>
> -JZ
>
>
I think the main issue for the project is that the mentors want to make
sure the new committers can move the project on in case you or some other
committer is not available. If we can demonstrate a release done by someone
other committer, and also a process of proposing and adding a new committer
from someone other then you, this project will have my +1 for graduation.
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
I agree with Eric here. The pace in Incubator is stifling. It was my understanding that the Incubator's purpose was to establish community and have a project learn the Apache Way. Curator already had a thriving community before it came into the Incubator. What is was lacking was diverse committers. Over four months we've demonstrated that we can attract new committers. I fully expect that more committers will come on when (if) Curator is a TLP.
-JZ
On Jul 24, 2013, at 7:19 PM, Eric Tschetter <ec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know about Jordan's full motivations, but I can say from my
> perspective it really sucked that I gave him a bunch of patches in early
> April, they didn't get applied until May because we were waiting on a
> release vote for 2.0.0, which was the exact same code as what was the most
> current, stable version on github. Then when we decided we were ready to
> release the changes (prompted by a user wanting a fix in an artifact they
> could actually depend on), we sat there for two weeks waiting on a release
> vote from the mentors, who had to be prompted multiple times and I don't
> believe know the code or have any real understanding about whether it is
> fit for release.
>
> During that two weeks the code sat, it aged a bit like wine, except when we
> uncorked it, it hadn't actually changed.
>
> During this whole time from April, I maintained my own fork of the project
> outside of apache with artifacts deployed to my own artifactory because I
> am not willing to slow down my development cycle.
>
> So far, my impression of the transfer to Apache is that it is now more
> painful to actually get changes into a state where other things can depend
> on them, which seems like the opposite of what you want to increase
> adoption of a library.
>
> All of this is aside from the general feeling that its significantly more
> difficult to actually interact with Apache infrastructure than GitHub, but
> that won't be fixed by becoming a TLP.
>
> --Eric
>
> On Wednesday, July 24, 2013, Luciano Resende wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am quickly coming to the conclusion that it was a mistake to put
>> Curator
>>> into Apache. I was cautioned by many colleagues that I shouldn't do it
>> and
>>> I now understand why they were correct. I'm not interested in another 3
>>> months of incubation.
>>>
>>> What is the process for failing out of incubation so that Curator can
>>> continue outside of Apache?
>>>
>>> ====================
>>>
>>
>>
>> How do you see the project changing when it becomes a TLP ? Or, let me put
>> in another way, what issue do you have as having it as an "Incubator"
>> project for couple more months ?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Luciano Resende
>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Eric Tschetter <ec...@gmail.com>.
I don't know about Jordan's full motivations, but I can say from my
perspective it really sucked that I gave him a bunch of patches in early
April, they didn't get applied until May because we were waiting on a
release vote for 2.0.0, which was the exact same code as what was the most
current, stable version on github. Then when we decided we were ready to
release the changes (prompted by a user wanting a fix in an artifact they
could actually depend on), we sat there for two weeks waiting on a release
vote from the mentors, who had to be prompted multiple times and I don't
believe know the code or have any real understanding about whether it is
fit for release.
During that two weeks the code sat, it aged a bit like wine, except when we
uncorked it, it hadn't actually changed.
During this whole time from April, I maintained my own fork of the project
outside of apache with artifacts deployed to my own artifactory because I
am not willing to slow down my development cycle.
So far, my impression of the transfer to Apache is that it is now more
painful to actually get changes into a state where other things can depend
on them, which seems like the opposite of what you want to increase
adoption of a library.
All of this is aside from the general feeling that its significantly more
difficult to actually interact with Apache infrastructure than GitHub, but
that won't be fixed by becoming a TLP.
--Eric
On Wednesday, July 24, 2013, Luciano Resende wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > I am quickly coming to the conclusion that it was a mistake to put
> Curator
> > into Apache. I was cautioned by many colleagues that I shouldn't do it
> and
> > I now understand why they were correct. I'm not interested in another 3
> > months of incubation.
> >
> > What is the process for failing out of incubation so that Curator can
> > continue outside of Apache?
> >
> > ====================
> >
>
>
> How do you see the project changing when it becomes a TLP ? Or, let me put
> in another way, what issue do you have as having it as an "Incubator"
> project for couple more months ?
>
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> I'm hoping that the velocity can increase. The pace of the Incubator is
> horrible. I understand that the Curator team needs to learn how to do
> things the Apache Way, so I've accepted that pace. But, every item on the
> Curator Project Incubation Status is done and I would like to resume
> Curator's fast pace releases. Having to wait 72 hours times 2 for every
> release (and having to cajole people to vote) is taxing. It's my
> understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) that a TLP is more in control of
> it's releases. i.e. the Committers can do a vote/release without having to
> secure mentors votes and a general list vote.
>
> -Jordan
>
>
As a TLP, you don't have the concept of mentors, and all PMC votes are
binding... But you still have to wait 72 hours for a vote cycle.
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
I'm hoping that the velocity can increase. The pace of the Incubator is horrible. I understand that the Curator team needs to learn how to do things the Apache Way, so I've accepted that pace. But, every item on the Curator Project Incubation Status is done and I would like to resume Curator's fast pace releases. Having to wait 72 hours times 2 for every release (and having to cajole people to vote) is taxing. It's my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) that a TLP is more in control of it's releases. i.e. the Committers can do a vote/release without having to secure mentors votes and a general list vote.
-Jordan
On Jul 24, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How do you see the project changing when it becomes a TLP ? Or, let me put
> in another way, what issue do you have as having it as an "Incubator"
> project for couple more months ?
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> I am quickly coming to the conclusion that it was a mistake to put Curator
> into Apache. I was cautioned by many colleagues that I shouldn't do it and
> I now understand why they were correct. I'm not interested in another 3
> months of incubation.
>
> What is the process for failing out of incubation so that Curator can
> continue outside of Apache?
>
> ====================
>
How do you see the project changing when it becomes a TLP ? Or, let me put
in another way, what issue do you have as having it as an "Incubator"
project for couple more months ?
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Enis Söztutar <en...@gmail.com>.
Although I hope it does not come to that, if you feel that going some other
route is more meaningful for the project, you can definitely start a
discussion around retirement. See this page:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/retirement.html
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> I am quickly coming to the conclusion that it was a mistake to put Curator
> into Apache. I was cautioned by many colleagues that I shouldn't do it and
> I now understand why they were correct. I'm not interested in another 3
> months of incubation.
>
> What is the process for failing out of incubation so that Curator can
> continue outside of Apache?
>
> ====================
> Jordan Zimmerman
>
> On Jul 24, 2013, at 6:38 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> > jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since
> >> then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse
> >> organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three
> >> releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the
> excellent
> >> mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to
> >> self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices.
> Curator
> >> continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the
> world.
> >> Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to
> graduate
> >> from the Incubator.
> >>
> >> The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator
> >> is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board
> >> resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The
> >> complete graduation process is described below [1].
> >>
> >> Please cast your votes:
> >>
> >> [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> >> [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> >> [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
> >>
> >> This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
> >>
> >> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >> Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
> >
> > Curator has done a tremendous progress in just a few months in
> Incubation,
> > multiple releases, multiple committers, etc. Also, having a TLP with 3
> > active committers (I haven't seen Jay really active) is very risky, as if
> > any is MIA, the TLP will not be able to vote for releases, new members,
> > etc. Also, it worries me a bit that the project is still largely
> dependent
> > on Jordan, particularly now that he has expressed that he is going to be
> > transitioning jobs, and having passed through this experience recently, I
> > know that your schedule and responsibilities change, and I want to make
> > sure that is not going to affect the project.
> >
> > As for next tasks, I would encourage having releases handled by different
> > committers, having new committers mentored and proposed by the new
> > committers, that would show signs that the project does not rely only on
> > Jordan.
> >
> > Based on that, I'm voting -1, and would like to propose that we review
> this
> > matter in 3 months from now (close to our next report to the IPMC)
> >
> > --
> > Luciano Resende
> > http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> > http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> > http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
I am quickly coming to the conclusion that it was a mistake to put Curator into Apache. I was cautioned by many colleagues that I shouldn't do it and I now understand why they were correct. I'm not interested in another 3 months of incubation.
What is the process for failing out of incubation so that Curator can continue outside of Apache?
====================
Jordan Zimmerman
On Jul 24, 2013, at 6:38 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since
>> then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse
>> organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three
>> releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent
>> mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to
>> self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator
>> continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world.
>> Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate
>> from the Incubator.
>>
>> The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator
>> is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board
>> resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The
>> complete graduation process is described below [1].
>>
>> Please cast your votes:
>>
>> [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
>> [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
>> [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
>>
>> This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
>>
>> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
>
> Curator has done a tremendous progress in just a few months in Incubation,
> multiple releases, multiple committers, etc. Also, having a TLP with 3
> active committers (I haven't seen Jay really active) is very risky, as if
> any is MIA, the TLP will not be able to vote for releases, new members,
> etc. Also, it worries me a bit that the project is still largely dependent
> on Jordan, particularly now that he has expressed that he is going to be
> transitioning jobs, and having passed through this experience recently, I
> know that your schedule and responsibilities change, and I want to make
> sure that is not going to affect the project.
>
> As for next tasks, I would encourage having releases handled by different
> committers, having new committers mentored and proposed by the new
> committers, that would show signs that the project does not rely only on
> Jordan.
>
> Based on that, I'm voting -1, and would like to propose that we review this
> matter in 3 months from now (close to our next report to the IPMC)
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since
> then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse
> organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three
> releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent
> mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to
> self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator
> continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world.
> Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate
> from the Incubator.
>
> The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator
> is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board
> resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The
> complete graduation process is described below [1].
>
> Please cast your votes:
>
> [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
>
> This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
>
>
Curator has done a tremendous progress in just a few months in Incubation,
multiple releases, multiple committers, etc. Also, having a TLP with 3
active committers (I haven't seen Jay really active) is very risky, as if
any is MIA, the TLP will not be able to vote for releases, new members,
etc. Also, it worries me a bit that the project is still largely dependent
on Jordan, particularly now that he has expressed that he is going to be
transitioning jobs, and having passed through this experience recently, I
know that your schedule and responsibilities change, and I want to make
sure that is not going to affect the project.
As for next tasks, I would encourage having releases handled by different
committers, having new committers mentored and proposed by the new
committers, that would show signs that the project does not rely only on
Jordan.
Based on that, I'm voting -1, and would like to propose that we review this
matter in 3 months from now (close to our next report to the IPMC)
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Adarsh Bhat <ad...@gmail.com>.
I don't know much about the Apache graduation process. But I use and love Curator. So here's a +1.
Adarsh Bhat
HP Software
On Jul 24, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> FYI - those not on the project team: feel free to vote on the graduation. The more total community support we have the more likely we'll get +1'd for graduation.
>
> -JZ
>
> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>
>> The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world. Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate from the Incubator.
>>
>> The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The complete graduation process is described below [1].
>>
>> Please cast your votes:
>>
>> [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
>> [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
>> [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
>>
>> This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
>>
>> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Christian Posta <ch...@gmail.com>.
+1
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> FYI - those not on the project team: feel free to vote on the graduation.
> The more total community support we have the more likely we'll get +1'd for
> graduation.
>
> -JZ
>
> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>
> wrote:
>
> > The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since
> then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse
> organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three
> releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent
> mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to
> self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator
> continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world.
> Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate
> from the Incubator.
> >
> > The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator
> is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board
> resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The
> complete graduation process is described below [1].
> >
> > Please cast your votes:
> >
> > [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> > [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> > [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
> >
> > This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
> >
> > [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
> >
>
>
--
*Christian Posta*
http://www.christianposta.com/blog
twitter: @christianposta
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Enis Söztutar <en...@gmail.com>.
I would have to vote -0, based on the fact that I would have liked to wait
a bit longer for a larger set of committers. Though, there is definitely
good progress in terms of diversification though and graduation goals.
Looking at the recent commits, I can only see Jordan on commits on core
pieces (except for build and documentation issues), and I fear only time
will tell whether the project is truly not-dependent on a single committer.
Enis
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Jordan Zimmerman <
jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> FYI - those not on the project team: feel free to vote on the graduation.
> The more total community support we have the more likely we'll get +1'd for
> graduation.
>
> -JZ
>
> On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>
> wrote:
>
> > The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since
> then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse
> organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three
> releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent
> mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to
> self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator
> continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world.
> Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate
> from the Incubator.
> >
> > The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator
> is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board
> resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The
> complete graduation process is described below [1].
> >
> > Please cast your votes:
> >
> > [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> > [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> > [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
> >
> > This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
> >
> > [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
> >
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
FYI - those not on the project team: feel free to vote on the graduation. The more total community support we have the more likely we'll get +1'd for graduation.
-JZ
On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world. Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate from the Incubator.
>
> The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The complete graduation process is described below [1].
>
> Please cast your votes:
>
> [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
>
> This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
>
[RESULT] [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
The community vote to graduate has passed unanimously (based on revised votes).
+1s Binding:
Patrick Hunt
Eric Tschetter
Jay Zarfoss
Jordan Zimmerman
Ioannis Canellos
Enis Söztutar
Luciano Resende
Mahadev Konar
+1s Non-binding:
Christian Posta
Adarsh Bhat
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Curator from Apache Incubator
Posted by Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com>.
FYI - those not on the project team: feel free to vote on the graduation. The more total community support we have the more likely we'll get +1'd for graduation.
-JZ
On Jul 22, 2013, at 10:15 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <jo...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
> The Apache Curator project entered the Incubator in March of 2013. Since then we have added two new committers/PPMC members from diverse organizations. The codebase has steadily grown and we have made three releases following the ASF policies and guidelines. Thanks to the excellent mentorship we have received through this period we have learned to self-govern and grow our community using accepted Apache practices. Curator continues to attract interest from contributors and users across the world. Given these milestones, I strongly feel that Curator is ready to graduate from the Incubator.
>
> The first step towards graduation is to vote as a community that Curator is ready to graduate. If the vote is successful, we will draft a board resolution proposal and call a vote on the general Incubator list. The complete graduation process is described below [1].
>
> Please cast your votes:
>
> [ ] +1 Graduate Curator from Incubator
> [ ] +0 Indifferent to graduation status of Curator
> [ ] -1 Reject graduation of Curator from Incubator
>
> This vote will remain open for at least 72 hours from now.
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jordan (this email serves as a +1 from me)
>