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Posted to dev@tapestry.apache.org by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> on 2012/12/13 19:28:20 UTC
Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Because of Bootstrap, there's a bit more boilerplate in the template; for
instance, editting a field may look like:
<div class="control-group">
<t:label class="control-label" for="email"/>
<div class="controls">
<t:textfield t:id="email"/>
</div>
</div>
...
I think we can reduce the boilerplate to:
<t:textfield t:id="email" t:mixins="controlgroup"/>
ControlGroup mixin can generate the extra <div> elements, and emulate the
Label component as well.
I'll be working on ideas like this after the first alpha ... unless someone
beats me to it!
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo <th...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:43:46 -0200, Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
<th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:10:14 -0200, trsvax <tr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm all for (optionally) getting rid of boiler plate and I think there
>> is a way to get rid of even more here. i would suggest putting the
>> mixin at the form level and have it control all the contained elements.
>> For example
>
> Why couldn't this plugin be a different one, so we have more
> fine-grained control? One for specific form fields, another one which
> traverses the component tree.
Mixin, not plugin, of course.
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo <th...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:10:14 -0200, trsvax <tr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm all for (optionally) getting rid of boiler plate and I think there
> is a way to get rid of even more here. i would suggest putting the mixin
> at the form level and have it control all the contained elements. For
> example
Why couldn't this plugin be a different one, so we have more fine-grained
control? One for specific form fields, another one which traverses the
component tree.
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Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by trsvax <tr...@gmail.com>.
I did upgrade from Tapestry's default template to Bootstrap 1 then 2 and it
caused me to rethink the whole way I was doing things.
When I built the Bootstrap 2 module I created one mixin called framework and
used a worker to add it to all components. Then I created a service to
handle the framework specific markup. This way the framework is pluggable.
If you don't like Bootstrap create your own framework service and override
the Bootstrap one. The service is also extensible so it's possible to add
your own markup for your own components.
The framework mixin takes one argument that tells it how to render. The
mixin then puts the render type into the environment so subcomponents can
see it. So for a form the render parameter would be "horizontal". The input
components can get that from the environment and do the right thing. If for
some reason you don't want a particular textfield to output control divs and
labels it's possible to specify how it renders. For example
<t:form render="horizontal">
<t:textfield t:id=name/>
<t:textfield t:id=email render="none"/>
<t:submit />
</t:form>
If you are using Bootstrap this will render a horizontal form with a control
group and label around the name field. The email field will not have any
additional markup. There is no Bootstrap markup in the template. Hopefully
Bootstrap 3 will have some type of horizontal form and the service can just
make it work.
For me the last thing I want in the template it extra markup to make things
pretty. I'll do that with a service and CSS. This way I can change one place
and the whole site changes, but it's also flexible enough to work will all
the markup in the tml file because
<t:form >
</t:form>
Has no render type so all the subcomponents will just render without the
extra markup needed for a horizontal form.
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Massimo Lusetti <ml...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo <
thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree that Bootstrap should be a separate module, not included in
> tapestry-core automatically, but included in projects generated by the
> Maven archetype.
It isn't a bit "late" to suggest a separate bootsrap module?
BTW this is going slightly OT ...
--
Massimo
Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo <th...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:51:14 -0200, trsvax <tr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would prefer a drop in module also. I use Bootstrap for new projects
> but I have some old ones that do not. If the base components change
> their HTML
> output this would be a backward compatibility problem for me.
It seems to me the base components won't change their HTML output, as
Howard is just suggesting that he will create Bootstrap-based mixins, and
mixins are meant to change components' behavior and rendering without
changing their sources.
I agree that Bootstrap should be a separate module, not included in
tapestry-core automatically, but included in projects generated by the
Maven archetype.
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by trsvax <tr...@gmail.com>.
I would prefer a drop in module also. I use Bootstrap for new projects but I
have some old ones that do not. If the base components change their HTML
output this would be a backward compatibility problem for me.
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Taha Siddiqi <ta...@gmail.com>.
I too agree with Josh.
I use bootstrap in all my projects but I would still prefer it to be not in tapestry-core. I would prefer to have a "drop-in-classpath-and-enjoy-bootstrap" type of magic :)
regards
Taha
On Dec 15, 2012, at 7:08 PM, Serge Eby wrote:
> Although I am a big fan of Bootstrap, I am in agreement with Josh.
>
>
> /Serge
>
>
>
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Serge Eby <sd...@hotmail.com>.
Although I am a big fan of Bootstrap, I am in agreement with Josh.
/Serge
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com>.
This is sooooo bootstrap specific. Seems like something that a bootstrap
specific module could implement.
Plus, when bootstrap 3 comes out all of this will be broken. Have you tried
to upgrade from bootstrap 1 -> 2? unlike Tapestry5, compatibility wasn't a
concern :(
Josh
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 6:10 AM, trsvax <tr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > <t:form t:mixins="forminline"> or <t:form t:mixins="formhorizontal">
> > <t:textfield t:id="name"/>
> > <t:textfield t:id="email/>
> > <t:submit />
> > </t:form>
> >
>
> That's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how to implement it, short of
> navigating the rendered DOM and finding every <input>, <textarea> and
> <select> tag that gets rendered, and even that is not always sufficient for
> the kinds of components I'm often writing, where the UI is created on the
> client-side, so there's nothing on the server side, beyond a <div> or two.
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 6:10 AM, trsvax <tr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> <t:form t:mixins="forminline"> or <t:form t:mixins="formhorizontal">
> <t:textfield t:id="name"/>
> <t:textfield t:id="email/>
> <t:submit />
> </t:form>
>
That's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how to implement it, short of
navigating the rendered DOM and finding every <input>, <textarea> and
<select> tag that gets rendered, and even that is not always sufficient for
the kinds of components I'm often writing, where the UI is created on the
client-side, so there's nothing on the server side, beyond a <div> or two.
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by trsvax <tr...@gmail.com>.
I'm all for (optionally) getting rid of boiler plate and I think there is a
way to get rid of even more here. i would suggest putting the mixin at the
form level and have it control all the contained elements. For example
<t:form t:mixins="forminline"> or <t:form t:mixins="formhorizontal">
<t:textfield t:id="name"/>
<t:textfield t:id="email/>
<t:submit />
</t:form>
or
<t:beaneditform t:mixins="formhorizontal"/>
This makes it easy to switch between form types and makes your code more
future proof because new form types can be added but just changing the base
components. You can also automatically add one of the form types to all the
form component and have the whole site use the same form type.
The same can apply to the grid. For example
<t:grid t:mixins="striped"/>
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo <th...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:50:01 -0200, Jon Williams
<wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seeing as this rather trivial, let's add some controversy to make it more
> interesting. We're Engineers right? They are monkeys. Who cares if they
> feel good or not? Seriously, don't care. LoLz
I was expecting jokes about the fidelity of designers. :P
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Jon Williams <wi...@gmail.com>.
Seeing as this rather trivial, let's add some controversy to make it more
interesting. We're Engineers right? They are monkeys. Who cares if they
feel good or not? Seriously, don't care. LoLz
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>wrote:
> This I just a reminder for the dev folks how important designer fidelity
> is.
> Most Devs including me sometimes forget that.
>
> On Dec 13, 2012, at 5:23 PM, "Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo" <
> thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:40:52 -0200, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>
> wrote:
> >
> >> That does not solve the problem of editing the templates in DreamWeaver
> >> and seeing the changes right away, without Tapestry, database, etc.
> >> When I give my templates to the designer, they will just run DW on it,
> >> that's all. It is very important to be able to keep the DW-friendly
> syntax n Tapestry. Thats #1 feature in Tapestry for me. No other framework
> does this as well now.
> >
> > I know what you're talking, I also work with designers (not in person)
> and I agree that previewability is awesome. I just don't understand your
> concern here. Besides simple form field components, all others generate
> HTML beyond its declaration and wouldn't be 100% previewable anyway (Grid,
> BeanEditor, etc). In addition, the proposed mixin, as any other mixin, is
> optional. If you want to keep the template as closer to the generated HTML,
> all you need to do is not to use it. In other words, do nothing.
> >
> > --
> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
>
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>
Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>.
This I just a reminder for the dev folks how important designer fidelity is.
Most Devs including me sometimes forget that.
On Dec 13, 2012, at 5:23 PM, "Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:40:52 -0200, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us> wrote:
>
>> That does not solve the problem of editing the templates in DreamWeaver
>> and seeing the changes right away, without Tapestry, database, etc.
>> When I give my templates to the designer, they will just run DW on it,
>> that's all. It is very important to be able to keep the DW-friendly syntax n Tapestry. Thats #1 feature in Tapestry for me. No other framework does this as well now.
>
> I know what you're talking, I also work with designers (not in person) and I agree that previewability is awesome. I just don't understand your concern here. Besides simple form field components, all others generate HTML beyond its declaration and wouldn't be 100% previewable anyway (Grid, BeanEditor, etc). In addition, the proposed mixin, as any other mixin, is optional. If you want to keep the template as closer to the generated HTML, all you need to do is not to use it. In other words, do nothing.
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo <th...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:40:52 -0200, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>
wrote:
> That does not solve the problem of editing the templates in DreamWeaver
> and seeing the changes right away, without Tapestry, database, etc.
> When I give my templates to the designer, they will just run DW on it,
> that's all. It is very important to be able to keep the DW-friendly
> syntax n Tapestry. Thats #1 feature in Tapestry for me. No other
> framework does this as well now.
I know what you're talking, I also work with designers (not in person) and
I agree that previewability is awesome. I just don't understand your
concern here. Besides simple form field components, all others generate
HTML beyond its declaration and wouldn't be 100% previewable anyway (Grid,
BeanEditor, etc). In addition, the proposed mixin, as any other mixin, is
optional. If you want to keep the template as closer to the generated
HTML, all you need to do is not to use it. In other words, do nothing.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>.
That does not solve the problem of editing the templates in DreamWeaver
and seeing the changes right away, without Tapestry, database, etc.
When I give my templates to the designer, they will just run DW on it,
that's all. It is very important to be able to keep the DW-friendly syntax n Tapestry.
Thats #1 feature in Tapestry for me. No other framework does this as well now.
On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Highest fidelity is "gradle runJetty", or some special target just for the
> designers.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So, be glad it is optional!
>>
>> Some day, I hope to be in a position where that is an issue; where I get
>> to work directly with a designer. That has not been the case for > 10
>> years. That's why I love Bootstrap as much as I do ... it gives me 80+% of
>> the benefit of working with a designer, without the actual designer.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>wrote:
>>
>>> I chose Tapestry for my projects because you can freely share templates
>>> with
>>> DreamWeaver and Photoshop-using designers. They need to be able to see
>>> with the highest fidelity and modify with the highest accuracy.
>>> Sometimes, our more advanced Tapestry-using friends might forget that :)
>>>
>>> On Dec 13, 2012, at 3:13 PM, "Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo" <
>>> thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:31:08 -0200, Lenny Primak <
>>> lprimak@hope.nyc.ny.us> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nice. I like it. The only issue may be dreamweaver etc. fidelity.
>>>>
>>>> It's optional, so that won't be an issue. I still prefer the <input
>>> type="text" t:type="TextField"/> syntax.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>> --
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>
>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>
>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>
>> (971) 678-5210
>> http://howardlewisship.com
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
Highest fidelity is "gradle runJetty", or some special target just for the
designers.
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, be glad it is optional!
>
> Some day, I hope to be in a position where that is an issue; where I get
> to work directly with a designer. That has not been the case for > 10
> years. That's why I love Bootstrap as much as I do ... it gives me 80+% of
> the benefit of working with a designer, without the actual designer.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>wrote:
>
>> I chose Tapestry for my projects because you can freely share templates
>> with
>> DreamWeaver and Photoshop-using designers. They need to be able to see
>> with the highest fidelity and modify with the highest accuracy.
>> Sometimes, our more advanced Tapestry-using friends might forget that :)
>>
>> On Dec 13, 2012, at 3:13 PM, "Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo" <
>> thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:31:08 -0200, Lenny Primak <
>> lprimak@hope.nyc.ny.us> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Nice. I like it. The only issue may be dreamweaver etc. fidelity.
>> >
>> > It's optional, so that won't be an issue. I still prefer the <input
>> type="text" t:type="TextField"/> syntax.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
So, be glad it is optional!
Some day, I hope to be in a position where that is an issue; where I get to
work directly with a designer. That has not been the case for > 10 years.
That's why I love Bootstrap as much as I do ... it gives me 80+% of the
benefit of working with a designer, without the actual designer.
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>wrote:
> I chose Tapestry for my projects because you can freely share templates
> with
> DreamWeaver and Photoshop-using designers. They need to be able to see
> with the highest fidelity and modify with the highest accuracy.
> Sometimes, our more advanced Tapestry-using friends might forget that :)
>
> On Dec 13, 2012, at 3:13 PM, "Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo" <
> thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:31:08 -0200, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Nice. I like it. The only issue may be dreamweaver etc. fidelity.
> >
> > It's optional, so that won't be an issue. I still prefer the <input
> type="text" t:type="TextField"/> syntax.
> >
> > --
> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
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>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Jon Williams <wi...@gmail.com>.
I use Dreamweaver & Photoshop too. I recommend both of them. I don't want
to end up with FIDELITY ISSUES with this. LOLZ
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>wrote:
> I chose Tapestry for my projects because you can freely share templates
> with
> DreamWeaver and Photoshop-using designers. They need to be able to see
> with the highest fidelity and modify with the highest accuracy.
> Sometimes, our more advanced Tapestry-using friends might forget that :)
>
> On Dec 13, 2012, at 3:13 PM, "Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo" <
> thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:31:08 -0200, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Nice. I like it. The only issue may be dreamweaver etc. fidelity.
> >
> > It's optional, so that won't be an issue. I still prefer the <input
> type="text" t:type="TextField"/> syntax.
> >
> > --
> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>.
I chose Tapestry for my projects because you can freely share templates with
DreamWeaver and Photoshop-using designers. They need to be able to see
with the highest fidelity and modify with the highest accuracy.
Sometimes, our more advanced Tapestry-using friends might forget that :)
On Dec 13, 2012, at 3:13 PM, "Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:31:08 -0200, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us> wrote:
>
>> Nice. I like it. The only issue may be dreamweaver etc. fidelity.
>
> It's optional, so that won't be an issue. I still prefer the <input type="text" t:type="TextField"/> syntax.
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo <th...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:31:08 -0200, Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>
wrote:
> Nice. I like it. The only issue may be dreamweaver etc. fidelity.
It's optional, so that won't be an issue. I still prefer the <input
type="text" t:type="TextField"/> syntax.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
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Re: Idea for 5.4: ControlGroup mixin
Posted by Lenny Primak <lp...@hope.nyc.ny.us>.
Nice. I like it. The only issue may be dreamweaver etc. fidelity.
On Dec 13, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Because of Bootstrap, there's a bit more boilerplate in the template; for
> instance, editting a field may look like:
>
> <div class="control-group">
> <t:label class="control-label" for="email"/>
> <div class="controls">
> <t:textfield t:id="email"/>
> </div>
> </div>
>
>
> ...
>
> I think we can reduce the boilerplate to:
>
> <t:textfield t:id="email" t:mixins="controlgroup"/>
>
> ControlGroup mixin can generate the extra <div> elements, and emulate the
> Label component as well.
>
> I'll be working on ideas like this after the first alpha ... unless someone
> beats me to it!
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
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