Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki

[Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>]

Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>I'd find myself very unconfortable to force the cocoon people
>>to move into the ASF wiki (migration issues aside) since it doesn't have
>>the appeal and the features that our current wiki does (at least to many
>>us).
> 
> 
> Does JSPWiki v2 provide all of the features necessary to host the ASF Wiki?

Yeah, well, I think so. I already provides RSS feeds, much better 
structured content support, I find it more usable and it's java so for 
me it's a plus (but I understand that for others might be a minus so I 
won't emphasize that here)

> Does anyone really care about usemodwiki other than that "it's there and it
> works"?  As far as I know, Andrew just saw the interest and *did* something
> about it, for which kudos are deserved.

Oh, totally.

>>Also, having a project-specific wiki helps a lot the community oversight
>>issues that we were discussing before. In fact, we'll probably be adding
>>direct wiki-diffs emails to the cocoon-docs@ mail list.
> 
> Push notification is my primary issue with a wiki in the context of group
> development.

I think Andy has a pretty good point about security, though... see next 
email.

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi                               <st...@apache.org>
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki

[Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>]

Andrew C. Oliver wrote:

> Do note that I don't mind other forms of wiki.  I picked this one 
> arbitrarily.  I picked it because Andy Hunt runs it on his site
> (http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/cgi-local/pragprog?HomePage)

Hey, any reason will do. You proposed, you installed, so you get to 
choose. Technology discussions are boring :)

The 'lucky thing' with the Cocoon Wiki was Leigh Dodds jumping in and 
adding heaps of high quality content he already created in his private 
Wiki only _minutes_ after me setting up the JSPWiki instance. I'm pretty 
lucky actually that JSPWiki can take the load, since I didn't thoroughly 
tested it before choosing it :)

<snip/>

> If folks feel like they want to install and volunteer to maintain 
> another wiki, and they're sure its secure, can be feasibly set up with 
> meager resource requirements
> (no idea what nagoya is but Steven has a pretty fat server behind 
> cocoondev and its running Linux and not FreeBSD which is a BIG plus for 
> Java), then I'm
> not intending to get in the way.... You just need to be sure you know 
> the answers:

<blush/> cocoondev.org, i.e. all of http://cocoondev.org/sites.html is 
running on an single CPU Intel P4 2GHz, 1 Gig RAM, 80Gig HD, which is 
_much_ lower-grade than nagoya IIUC.
<snip/>

> <veryserious>
> Those are higher priority than Cool Feature X....
> </veryserious>

Totally agree. For the specific context where the Cocoon Wiki lives in, 
I can only say it hasn't let me down so far - which doesn't guarantee 
anything w.r.t. scalability however.

The good thing about all this, is that I went to the Apache Wiki little 
time after it was installed, and saw somebody already had been kind 
enough to reference the 'real' _Cocoon_ Wiki at 
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?CocoonProjectPages

</Steven>
-- 
Steven Noels                            http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at              http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/
stevenn at outerthought.org                stevenn at apache.org

RE: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

> no idea what nagoya is but Steven has a pretty fat server behind
> cocoondev

According to the machines page, Nagoya is a Sun E4500.  I don't have any
more clue than that (would be curious to know the actual configuration), but
E4500s tend to be pretty powerful beasts.

	--- Noel

Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki

["Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>]

>
>
>>
>>
>> Does JSPWiki v2 provide all of the features necessary to host the ASF 
>> Wiki?
>
>
> Yeah, well, I think so. I already provides RSS feeds, much better 
> structured content support, I find it more usable and it's java so for 
> me it's a plus (but I understand that for others might be a minus so I 
> won't emphasize that here)
>
Do note that I don't mind other forms of wiki.  I picked this one 
arbitrarily.  I picked it because Andy Hunt runs it on his site
(http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/cgi-local/pragprog?HomePage)

It ran nice and stable like, didn't require any maintenance, no 
databases, etc...  Just set the data dir, config any options and you're 
done.
The point of a wiki is simplicity.  My only caution... lot of folks have 
a tendency to extend the capabilities and flexibilities such that it no
longer is useful anymore.  Those wikis die.  The most successful wikis 
are bascially kept simple.  The only enhancement I see myself making
is tables because I don't think those are so hard and boy they are sure 
useful...  Granted they can be overused so I understand the arguments 
against...
(see this page for a good argument for tables: 
http://www.superlinksoftware.com/cgi-bin/jugwiki.pl?HowToUseJavaCollections 
- don't that look pretty ;-) )

If folks feel like they want to install and volunteer to maintain 
another wiki, and they're sure its secure, can be feasibly set up with 
meager resource requirements
(no idea what nagoya is but Steven has a pretty fat server behind 
cocoondev and its running Linux and not FreeBSD which is a BIG plus for 
Java), then I'm
not intending to get in the way.... You just need to be sure you know 
the answers:

* Will it scale if the wiki becomes widely used and syndicated  (UseMod: 
yes)
* Will it require more maintenance than is feesible in a volunteer run 
organization (UseMod: no)
* Is it secure from a exploit my system and bring apache to its knees 
standpoint (UseMod: yes)
* Does it keep it simple stupid (meaning complex markup and flexibility 
is nice but can be counter-productive, wiki's excel on simplicity) -- 
(UseMod: yes, very)
* Can it be feasibly set up given the amount of Cat Herding that is 
necessary to come to a decision and acquire rights, karma and resources 
-- (UseMod: obviously)
<sarcasm>
And if you're going to have the usual heated discussion (No I want a 
PyWiki and bla bla bla) before reaching a decision....
</sarcasm>
* Can you migrate the data over feasibly -- (UseMod: obviously)

<veryserious>
Those are higher priority than Cool Feature X....
</veryserious>

-Andy