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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> on 2019/11/21 20:06:24 UTC
[DISCUSS] Omid and Tephra - Graduation (or Retirement?)
Hi -
We are calling the movement of Omid and Tephra graduation to a project. To me this looks more like retirement where a podling moves on to a new place after failing to incubate. This distinction makes no difference to the podling. It does matter to the Incubator as we measure our success in Incubating projects.
I’m going to change podlings.xml to reflect these as “graduated”. If after discussion we have consensus to change these to “retired” then the change is easy.
Thoughts?
Regards,
Dave
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Re: [DISCUSS] Omid and Tephra - Graduation (or Retirement?)
Posted by Josh Elser <el...@apache.org>.
I really don't care one way or the other for the terminology we use and,
as VP Phoenix, am happy to use whatever terminology is deemed "most
correct".
If anything, I like Justin's use of "exited" to not attach feelings to
how a podling leaves the incubator. I think attaching "good" and "bad"
exits is not in-line with how we treat podlings (e.g. podlings who chose
to leave because the Incubator is not for them, we have no scorn or
malice towards them).
On 11/21/19 5:35 PM, Justin Mclean wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think I would call a project that exited the incubator, but still at the ASF with a community around it and PMC oversight. a success.
>
> It didn’t graduate as a TLP, and nor was it sponsored by the project it ended up it just took a different path.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] Omid and Tephra - Graduation (or Retirement?)
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
I think I would call a project that exited the incubator, but still at the ASF with a community around it and PMC oversight. a success.
It didn’t graduate as a TLP, and nor was it sponsored by the project it ended up it just took a different path.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] Omid and Tephra - Graduation (or Retirement?)
Posted by Andrew Purtell <an...@gmail.com>.
Ok my mistake about Solr. I thought it was a TLP.
As to the second half of what I said still this doesn’t look like a failure to gain a community and stable management. Omid and Tephra code is now under Phoenix. The Phoenix TLP has a community and stable management. Just like Lucene has a community and stable management.
> On Nov 21, 2019, at 5:16 PM, Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 21, 2019, at 2:10 PM, Andrew Purtell <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Those aren’t comparable though, right?
>>
>> Solr was a sub project that graduated to a TLP.
>
> Solr is a sub project of Lucene.
>>
>> Omid and Tephra are projects that instead of becoming TLP’s “graduated” into the existing Phoenix TLP.
>>
>> Not the same thing.
>
> Exactly.
>>
>> And also I don’t believe this result is unsuccessful. Neither Omid or Tephra code bases are read only or discarded. Omid and Tephra past or future contributors still have a code base and community to work with. Past Omid and Tephra committers can become Phoenix committers. Phoenix is a stable TLP. This looks like a success.
>>
>>
>>>> On Nov 21, 2019, at 4:55 PM, Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Justin,
>>>
>>>>> On Nov 21, 2019, at 1:48 PM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> HI,
>>>>
>>>>> I’m going to change podlings.xml to reflect these as “graduated”. If after discussion we have consensus to change these to “retired” then the change is easy.
>>>>
>>>> To officially graduate that would need a board proposal would it not?
>>>
>>> To graduate as a TLP yes. To graduate as a subproject of an existing TLP no. [1]
>>>
>>> So there are two kinds of graduation as a subproject: successful like Solr, DistributedLog, … and unsuccessful like Omid and Tephra. Certainly the “success” here is hard to measure. Your analysis in the future should consider the resolution tag which has '<resolution tlp="true”/>’ for the TLPs.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#whether_to_graduate_to_subproject_or_to_top_level_project
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Justin
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Omid and Tephra - Graduation (or Retirement?)
Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 21, 2019, at 2:10 PM, Andrew Purtell <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Those aren’t comparable though, right?
>
> Solr was a sub project that graduated to a TLP.
Solr is a sub project of Lucene.
>
> Omid and Tephra are projects that instead of becoming TLP’s “graduated” into the existing Phoenix TLP.
>
> Not the same thing.
Exactly.
>
> And also I don’t believe this result is unsuccessful. Neither Omid or Tephra code bases are read only or discarded. Omid and Tephra past or future contributors still have a code base and community to work with. Past Omid and Tephra committers can become Phoenix committers. Phoenix is a stable TLP. This looks like a success.
>
>
>> On Nov 21, 2019, at 4:55 PM, Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Justin,
>>
>>>> On Nov 21, 2019, at 1:48 PM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> HI,
>>>
>>>> I’m going to change podlings.xml to reflect these as “graduated”. If after discussion we have consensus to change these to “retired” then the change is easy.
>>>
>>> To officially graduate that would need a board proposal would it not?
>>
>> To graduate as a TLP yes. To graduate as a subproject of an existing TLP no. [1]
>>
>> So there are two kinds of graduation as a subproject: successful like Solr, DistributedLog, … and unsuccessful like Omid and Tephra. Certainly the “success” here is hard to measure. Your analysis in the future should consider the resolution tag which has '<resolution tlp="true”/>’ for the TLPs.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#whether_to_graduate_to_subproject_or_to_top_level_project
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Justin
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Omid and Tephra - Graduation (or Retirement?)
Posted by Andrew Purtell <an...@gmail.com>.
Those aren’t comparable though, right?
Solr was a sub project that graduated to a TLP.
Omid and Tephra are projects that instead of becoming TLP’s “graduated” into the existing Phoenix TLP.
Not the same thing.
And also I don’t believe this result is unsuccessful. Neither Omid or Tephra code bases are read only or discarded. Omid and Tephra past or future contributors still have a code base and community to work with. Past Omid and Tephra committers can become Phoenix committers. Phoenix is a stable TLP. This looks like a success.
> On Nov 21, 2019, at 4:55 PM, Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Justin,
>
>> On Nov 21, 2019, at 1:48 PM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>>
>> HI,
>>
>>> I’m going to change podlings.xml to reflect these as “graduated”. If after discussion we have consensus to change these to “retired” then the change is easy.
>>
>> To officially graduate that would need a board proposal would it not?
>
> To graduate as a TLP yes. To graduate as a subproject of an existing TLP no. [1]
>
> So there are two kinds of graduation as a subproject: successful like Solr, DistributedLog, … and unsuccessful like Omid and Tephra. Certainly the “success” here is hard to measure. Your analysis in the future should consider the resolution tag which has '<resolution tlp="true”/>’ for the TLPs.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#whether_to_graduate_to_subproject_or_to_top_level_project
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Omid and Tephra - Graduation (or Retirement?)
Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@apache.org>.
Hi Justin,
> On Nov 21, 2019, at 1:48 PM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>
> HI,
>
>> I’m going to change podlings.xml to reflect these as “graduated”. If after discussion we have consensus to change these to “retired” then the change is easy.
>
> To officially graduate that would need a board proposal would it not?
To graduate as a TLP yes. To graduate as a subproject of an existing TLP no. [1]
So there are two kinds of graduation as a subproject: successful like Solr, DistributedLog, … and unsuccessful like Omid and Tephra. Certainly the “success” here is hard to measure. Your analysis in the future should consider the resolution tag which has '<resolution tlp="true”/>’ for the TLPs.
Regards,
Dave
[1] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#whether_to_graduate_to_subproject_or_to_top_level_project
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Omid and Tephra - Graduation (or Retirement?)
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
HI,
> I’m going to change podlings.xml to reflect these as “graduated”. If after discussion we have consensus to change these to “retired” then the change is easy.
To officially graduate that would need a board proposal would it not?
Thanks,
Justin
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