[DISCUSS] Packaging password/ssh reset scripts

[David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>]

Hi folks:

One of the discussions that came up while we were in Ghent was whether
or not to package the SSH key reset and password reset utilities, or
whether we should focus our PW/SSH efforts on cloud-init.

The points for consideration are essentially:

* If we begin packaging them, they will be expected to be maintained
over the long term - are we as a project ready to do that?
* Do we keep the scripts in the repo, or perhaps consider adding a
separate repo for the scripts themselves. (This would make it easier
for distribution packagers to consume - and even if they don't wish to
package all of CloudStack - packaging the scripts themselves would be
substantially easier.
* cloud-init has CloudStack support IIRC, does it make sense to adopt
that rather than doing our own thing, or perhaps to elect one as the
primary method.

--David

Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging password/ssh reset scripts

[Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>]

On 02/04/2013 08:47 PM, Chiradeep Vittal wrote:
> I like cloud-init as well, but it sounds to me that we are hurting the
> investment of existing CloudStack users who have built hundreds of
> templates with the extant scripts.
>

We should ofcourse not break existing setups, their scripts should keep 
working.

But, if we start packaging these scripts in DEB/RPM packages new comers 
will start to use them as well while cloud-init is probably much better 
to use when you have a fresh start.

Wido

> On 2/4/13 10:51 AM, "Ahmad Emneina" <ae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> +1 cloud-init is the way to go IMO. It's also supported as long as the vm
>> can query its respective virtual router/dhcp server, since thats where
>> cloudstack places the user/meta data.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/03/2013 12:44 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi folks:
>>>>
>>>> One of the discussions that came up while we were in Ghent was whether
>>>> or not to package the SSH key reset and password reset utilities, or
>>>> whether we should focus our PW/SSH efforts on cloud-init.
>>>>
>>>> The points for consideration are essentially:
>>>>
>>>> * If we begin packaging them, they will be expected to be maintained
>>>> over the long term - are we as a project ready to do that?
>>>> * Do we keep the scripts in the repo, or perhaps consider adding a
>>>> separate repo for the scripts themselves. (This would make it easier
>>>> for distribution packagers to consume - and even if they don't wish to
>>>> package all of CloudStack - packaging the scripts themselves would be
>>>> substantially easier.
>>>> * cloud-init has CloudStack support IIRC, does it make sense to adopt
>>>> that rather than doing our own thing, or perhaps to elect one as the
>>>> primary method.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> +1 cloud-init
>>>
>>> We want CloudStack to be accepted by more and more users and they
>>> probably
>>> want to use cloud-init.
>>>
>>> cloud-init has cool Puppet and Chef plugins as well which make it very
>>> easy to get it all up and running.
>>>
>>> Do we have full cloud-init support yet? Are we able to pass "User Data"
>>> to
>>> a VM?
>>>
>>> I think it would be wise to support cloud-init and do not use our own
>>> custom, homegrown scripts.
>>>
>>> This makes it also easier for companies to make templates which work on
>>> OpenStack and CloudStack. Interoperability!
>>>
>>> Wido
>>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging password/ssh reset scripts

[Chiradeep Vittal <Ch...@citrix.com>]

I like cloud-init as well, but it sounds to me that we are hurting the
investment of existing CloudStack users who have built hundreds of
templates with the extant scripts.

On 2/4/13 10:51 AM, "Ahmad Emneina" <ae...@gmail.com> wrote:

>+1 cloud-init is the way to go IMO. It's also supported as long as the vm
>can query its respective virtual router/dhcp server, since thats where
>cloudstack places the user/meta data.
>
>
>On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>
>> On 02/03/2013 12:44 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks:
>>>
>>> One of the discussions that came up while we were in Ghent was whether
>>> or not to package the SSH key reset and password reset utilities, or
>>> whether we should focus our PW/SSH efforts on cloud-init.
>>>
>>> The points for consideration are essentially:
>>>
>>> * If we begin packaging them, they will be expected to be maintained
>>> over the long term - are we as a project ready to do that?
>>> * Do we keep the scripts in the repo, or perhaps consider adding a
>>> separate repo for the scripts themselves. (This would make it easier
>>> for distribution packagers to consume - and even if they don't wish to
>>> package all of CloudStack - packaging the scripts themselves would be
>>> substantially easier.
>>> * cloud-init has CloudStack support IIRC, does it make sense to adopt
>>> that rather than doing our own thing, or perhaps to elect one as the
>>> primary method.
>>>
>>>
>> +1 cloud-init
>>
>> We want CloudStack to be accepted by more and more users and they
>>probably
>> want to use cloud-init.
>>
>> cloud-init has cool Puppet and Chef plugins as well which make it very
>> easy to get it all up and running.
>>
>> Do we have full cloud-init support yet? Are we able to pass "User Data"
>>to
>> a VM?
>>
>> I think it would be wise to support cloud-init and do not use our own
>> custom, homegrown scripts.
>>
>> This makes it also easier for companies to make templates which work on
>> OpenStack and CloudStack. Interoperability!
>>
>> Wido
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging password/ssh reset scripts

[Ahmad Emneina <ae...@gmail.com>]

+1 cloud-init is the way to go IMO. It's also supported as long as the vm
can query its respective virtual router/dhcp server, since thats where
cloudstack places the user/meta data.


On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:

> On 02/03/2013 12:44 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>
>> Hi folks:
>>
>> One of the discussions that came up while we were in Ghent was whether
>> or not to package the SSH key reset and password reset utilities, or
>> whether we should focus our PW/SSH efforts on cloud-init.
>>
>> The points for consideration are essentially:
>>
>> * If we begin packaging them, they will be expected to be maintained
>> over the long term - are we as a project ready to do that?
>> * Do we keep the scripts in the repo, or perhaps consider adding a
>> separate repo for the scripts themselves. (This would make it easier
>> for distribution packagers to consume - and even if they don't wish to
>> package all of CloudStack - packaging the scripts themselves would be
>> substantially easier.
>> * cloud-init has CloudStack support IIRC, does it make sense to adopt
>> that rather than doing our own thing, or perhaps to elect one as the
>> primary method.
>>
>>
> +1 cloud-init
>
> We want CloudStack to be accepted by more and more users and they probably
> want to use cloud-init.
>
> cloud-init has cool Puppet and Chef plugins as well which make it very
> easy to get it all up and running.
>
> Do we have full cloud-init support yet? Are we able to pass "User Data" to
> a VM?
>
> I think it would be wise to support cloud-init and do not use our own
> custom, homegrown scripts.
>
> This makes it also easier for companies to make templates which work on
> OpenStack and CloudStack. Interoperability!
>
> Wido
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging password/ssh reset scripts

[Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>]

On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 11:10:22AM -0800, Kelven Yang wrote:
> The password-reset client script and Windows password-reset service use
> customized protocol to talk to the password provider, replacement of the
> facility will need these client-side tools to cooperate with, is there any
> details on these tools we are talking about so that we can evaluate the
> impact and feasible solutions?
> 
> -Kelven

cloud-init is pretty well documented, and may not replace the existing
password reset functionality (at least IIRC).  It does, however, do ssh
keys.

We still have Windows to deal with...  wouldn't it be great if there was
an equiv to cloud-init?  Anyone know of one?

Also, I'm in agreement that the existing scripts would need to remain as
a supported option for quite some time.  I consider things like that to
actually be related to our semver version numbering, although it's not
specifically our CS query API, it's a similar interface expectation.

-chip

Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging password/ssh reset scripts

[Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>]

On 02/05/2013 08:10 PM, Kelven Yang wrote:
>
>
> On 2/5/13 11:02 AM, "Wido den Hollander" <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 02/04/2013 11:18 PM, Kelven Yang wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/4/13 3:35 AM, "Wido den Hollander" <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/03/2013 12:44 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>>>>> Hi folks:
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the discussions that came up while we were in Ghent was whether
>>>>> or not to package the SSH key reset and password reset utilities, or
>>>>> whether we should focus our PW/SSH efforts on cloud-init.
>>>>>
>>>>> The points for consideration are essentially:
>>>>>
>>>>> * If we begin packaging them, they will be expected to be maintained
>>>>> over the long term - are we as a project ready to do that?
>>>>> * Do we keep the scripts in the repo, or perhaps consider adding a
>>>>> separate repo for the scripts themselves. (This would make it easier
>>>>> for distribution packagers to consume - and even if they don't wish to
>>>>> package all of CloudStack - packaging the scripts themselves would be
>>>>> substantially easier.
>>>>> * cloud-init has CloudStack support IIRC, does it make sense to adopt
>>>>> that rather than doing our own thing, or perhaps to elect one as the
>>>>> primary method.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1 cloud-init
>>>>
>>>> We want CloudStack to be accepted by more and more users and they
>>>> probably want to use cloud-init.
>>>>
>>>> cloud-init has cool Puppet and Chef plugins as well which make it very
>>>> easy to get it all up and running.
>>>>
>>>> Do we have full cloud-init support yet? Are we able to pass "User Data"
>>>> to a VM?
>>>>
>>>> I think it would be wise to support cloud-init and do not use our own
>>>> custom, homegrown scripts.
>>>
>>>
>>> Generally agree that if possible we should adopt third-party solution in
>>> stead of to do everything ourselves. One thing to add is that does the
>>> solution comes with support to Windows VM? We had a special package that
>>> is for windows VM on password-reset.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I guess that works the same way as the current scripts do? So we
>> should not break that.
>
>
> The password-reset client script and Windows password-reset service use
> customized protocol to talk to the password provider, replacement of the
> facility will need these client-side tools to cooperate with, is there any
> details on these tools we are talking about so that we can evaluate the
> impact and feasible solutions?
>

What I meant is that the current scripts (both Linux AND Windows) should 
keep working.

While they work we should provide methods to get cloud-init working and 
actually promote that.

We should NOT break existing setups, but also not encourage users to 
start using these scripts on new systems.

Wido

> -Kelven
>
>
>>
>> Wido
>>
>>> Kelven
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This makes it also easier for companies to make templates which work on
>>>> OpenStack and CloudStack. Interoperability!
>>>>
>>>> Wido
>>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging password/ssh reset scripts

[Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>]

On 2/5/13 11:02 AM, "Wido den Hollander" <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:

>
>
>On 02/04/2013 11:18 PM, Kelven Yang wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 2/4/13 3:35 AM, "Wido den Hollander" <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/03/2013 12:44 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>>>> Hi folks:
>>>>
>>>> One of the discussions that came up while we were in Ghent was whether
>>>> or not to package the SSH key reset and password reset utilities, or
>>>> whether we should focus our PW/SSH efforts on cloud-init.
>>>>
>>>> The points for consideration are essentially:
>>>>
>>>> * If we begin packaging them, they will be expected to be maintained
>>>> over the long term - are we as a project ready to do that?
>>>> * Do we keep the scripts in the repo, or perhaps consider adding a
>>>> separate repo for the scripts themselves. (This would make it easier
>>>> for distribution packagers to consume - and even if they don't wish to
>>>> package all of CloudStack - packaging the scripts themselves would be
>>>> substantially easier.
>>>> * cloud-init has CloudStack support IIRC, does it make sense to adopt
>>>> that rather than doing our own thing, or perhaps to elect one as the
>>>> primary method.
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1 cloud-init
>>>
>>> We want CloudStack to be accepted by more and more users and they
>>> probably want to use cloud-init.
>>>
>>> cloud-init has cool Puppet and Chef plugins as well which make it very
>>> easy to get it all up and running.
>>>
>>> Do we have full cloud-init support yet? Are we able to pass "User Data"
>>> to a VM?
>>>
>>> I think it would be wise to support cloud-init and do not use our own
>>> custom, homegrown scripts.
>>
>>
>> Generally agree that if possible we should adopt third-party solution in
>> stead of to do everything ourselves. One thing to add is that does the
>> solution comes with support to Windows VM? We had a special package that
>> is for windows VM on password-reset.
>>
>
>Well, I guess that works the same way as the current scripts do? So we
>should not break that.


The password-reset client script and Windows password-reset service use
customized protocol to talk to the password provider, replacement of the
facility will need these client-side tools to cooperate with, is there any
details on these tools we are talking about so that we can evaluate the
impact and feasible solutions?

-Kelven


>
>Wido
>
>> Kelven
>>
>>
>>>
>>> This makes it also easier for companies to make templates which work on
>>> OpenStack and CloudStack. Interoperability!
>>>
>>> Wido
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging password/ssh reset scripts

[Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>]

On 02/04/2013 11:18 PM, Kelven Yang wrote:
>
>
> On 2/4/13 3:35 AM, "Wido den Hollander" <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>
>> On 02/03/2013 12:44 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>>> Hi folks:
>>>
>>> One of the discussions that came up while we were in Ghent was whether
>>> or not to package the SSH key reset and password reset utilities, or
>>> whether we should focus our PW/SSH efforts on cloud-init.
>>>
>>> The points for consideration are essentially:
>>>
>>> * If we begin packaging them, they will be expected to be maintained
>>> over the long term - are we as a project ready to do that?
>>> * Do we keep the scripts in the repo, or perhaps consider adding a
>>> separate repo for the scripts themselves. (This would make it easier
>>> for distribution packagers to consume - and even if they don't wish to
>>> package all of CloudStack - packaging the scripts themselves would be
>>> substantially easier.
>>> * cloud-init has CloudStack support IIRC, does it make sense to adopt
>>> that rather than doing our own thing, or perhaps to elect one as the
>>> primary method.
>>>
>>
>> +1 cloud-init
>>
>> We want CloudStack to be accepted by more and more users and they
>> probably want to use cloud-init.
>>
>> cloud-init has cool Puppet and Chef plugins as well which make it very
>> easy to get it all up and running.
>>
>> Do we have full cloud-init support yet? Are we able to pass "User Data"
>> to a VM?
>>
>> I think it would be wise to support cloud-init and do not use our own
>> custom, homegrown scripts.
>
>
> Generally agree that if possible we should adopt third-party solution in
> stead of to do everything ourselves. One thing to add is that does the
> solution comes with support to Windows VM? We had a special package that
> is for windows VM on password-reset.
>

Well, I guess that works the same way as the current scripts do? So we 
should not break that.

Wido

> Kelven
>
>
>>
>> This makes it also easier for companies to make templates which work on
>> OpenStack and CloudStack. Interoperability!
>>
>> Wido
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging password/ssh reset scripts

[Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>]

On 2/4/13 3:35 AM, "Wido den Hollander" <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:

>On 02/03/2013 12:44 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>> Hi folks:
>>
>> One of the discussions that came up while we were in Ghent was whether
>> or not to package the SSH key reset and password reset utilities, or
>> whether we should focus our PW/SSH efforts on cloud-init.
>>
>> The points for consideration are essentially:
>>
>> * If we begin packaging them, they will be expected to be maintained
>> over the long term - are we as a project ready to do that?
>> * Do we keep the scripts in the repo, or perhaps consider adding a
>> separate repo for the scripts themselves. (This would make it easier
>> for distribution packagers to consume - and even if they don't wish to
>> package all of CloudStack - packaging the scripts themselves would be
>> substantially easier.
>> * cloud-init has CloudStack support IIRC, does it make sense to adopt
>> that rather than doing our own thing, or perhaps to elect one as the
>> primary method.
>>
>
>+1 cloud-init
>
>We want CloudStack to be accepted by more and more users and they
>probably want to use cloud-init.
>
>cloud-init has cool Puppet and Chef plugins as well which make it very
>easy to get it all up and running.
>
>Do we have full cloud-init support yet? Are we able to pass "User Data"
>to a VM?
>
>I think it would be wise to support cloud-init and do not use our own
>custom, homegrown scripts.


Generally agree that if possible we should adopt third-party solution in
stead of to do everything ourselves. One thing to add is that does the
solution comes with support to Windows VM? We had a special package that
is for windows VM on password-reset.

Kelven


>
>This makes it also easier for companies to make templates which work on
>OpenStack and CloudStack. Interoperability!
>
>Wido

Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging password/ssh reset scripts

[Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>]

On 02/03/2013 12:44 PM, David Nalley wrote:
> Hi folks:
>
> One of the discussions that came up while we were in Ghent was whether
> or not to package the SSH key reset and password reset utilities, or
> whether we should focus our PW/SSH efforts on cloud-init.
>
> The points for consideration are essentially:
>
> * If we begin packaging them, they will be expected to be maintained
> over the long term - are we as a project ready to do that?
> * Do we keep the scripts in the repo, or perhaps consider adding a
> separate repo for the scripts themselves. (This would make it easier
> for distribution packagers to consume - and even if they don't wish to
> package all of CloudStack - packaging the scripts themselves would be
> substantially easier.
> * cloud-init has CloudStack support IIRC, does it make sense to adopt
> that rather than doing our own thing, or perhaps to elect one as the
> primary method.
>

+1 cloud-init

We want CloudStack to be accepted by more and more users and they 
probably want to use cloud-init.

cloud-init has cool Puppet and Chef plugins as well which make it very 
easy to get it all up and running.

Do we have full cloud-init support yet? Are we able to pass "User Data" 
to a VM?

I think it would be wise to support cloud-init and do not use our own 
custom, homegrown scripts.

This makes it also easier for companies to make templates which work on 
OpenStack and CloudStack. Interoperability!

Wido