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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> on 2008/09/18 12:46:43 UTC
Re: svn commit: propchange - r33150 - svn:log
Why this change? Since the last time I spent working on Subversion,
now that I'm back, I'm finding a crazy amount of attention spent to
the log messages. Adding periods, correcting typos, adjusting
indentation, etc. Shoot, I saw somebody correct a log from rev 1400 or
so just a week ago.
What is up with that? Where is the flexibility, and why so much
attention?
And with this change to my log message, you remove *MY* character, and
turn it into some bland message devoid of my personality. I *like*
shortening to "tho". I don't like you removing my personality from my
log messages. Are you also going to edit out a joke or quip that I
might put in there, in the future? Are all our log messages destined
for some bland, grey goo?
-g
On Sep 18, 2008, at 7:17, arfrever@tigris.org wrote:
> Author: arfrever
> Revision: 33150
> Property Name: svn:log
> Action: modified
>
> Property diff:
> --- old property value
> +++ new property value
> @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@ Bring the branch up to date with respect
> An extra change snuck into this commit:
>
> Updated some comments on string/array lifetimes, and moved an array
> into
> -an iteration pool (tho its values are longer-lived).
> +an iteration pool (though its values are longer-lived).
>
> * subversion/libsvn_wc/experiment.c:
> (generic_walker): dirkeys can be in the iteration pool. the string
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: svn-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: svn-help@subversion.tigris.org
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Re: svn commit: propchange - r33150 - svn:log
Posted by Lübbe Onken <l....@rac.de>.
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C. Michael Pilato wrote:
> Hrm. I'm disappointed to hear when anyone stops contributing, but doubly so
> when the stated reasons are so ... fixable. Lübbe, did you make your
> concern about "formalism and bureaucracy" known in advance of your decision
> to stop contributing?
No, I just silently stopped. I had a private discussion with the
bureaucrat at that time and decided that it's not worth my time to spend
hours translating just to get whacked because of formalisms in commit
messages.
> I don't know your history with the project, Lübbe. But we'd enjoy having
> you contributing again. What can we reasonably do to make the experience
> better this time around?
I reviewed some of the later German translations and passed the baton on
to Jens Seidel who is doing a good job. I'm busy working on TortoiseSVN
and happy with the situation as it is now. When I feel like it, I'll
contribute to SVN again. No personal grudge against anyone there.
Cheers
- - Lübbe
- --
___
oo // \\ "De Chelonian Mobile"
(_,\/ \_/ \ TortoiseSVN
\ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
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Re: svn commit: propchange - r33150 - svn:log
Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
Lübbe Onken wrote:
> Greg Stein wrote:
>> Why this change? Since the last time I spent working on Subversion, now
>> that I'm back, I'm finding a crazy amount of attention spent to the log
>> messages. Adding periods, correcting typos, adjusting indentation, etc.
>> Shoot, I saw somebody correct a log from rev 1400 or so just a week ago.
>
>> What is up with that? Where is the flexibility, and why so much attention?
>
> which is the exact reason why I stopped contributing, even if it were
> only translations. Too much formalism and bureaucracy. If I had only log
> message formatting problems in real life...
Hrm. I'm disappointed to hear when anyone stops contributing, but doubly so
when the stated reasons are so ... fixable. Lübbe, did you make your
concern about "formalism and bureaucracy" known in advance of your decision
to stop contributing? If so, I'll be happy to dig up the archived thread to
see what happened -- I'm certainly not asking you to do that work.
As I said to Greg privately, might it be that (in this case) Arfrever is
contributing to the project in the best way he can with the time he
currently has available -- by reviewing all the commit log messages (and
perhaps even the commits themselves), and fixing up misspellings and such
along the way? Might it be that Arfrever isn't as text-message-happy as,
say, the average young American, and so doesn't recognize words like "tho"
as personality-filled shorthand, but instead as typing errors?
Well-formed, grammatically unambiguous, and correctly spelled log messages
are for the benefit of all today and tomorrow. *Surely* folks can agree
with that. I know I've had to ask for clarification on how to parse a log
message because of missing words or letters in the past. So while we
shouldn't have to check our individual personalities at the door when we
compose log messages, if there's a question regarding the interpretation of
a log message, fixing that problem is more important that preserving our
little bits of personal flavor.
Yes, there's been a lot of post-revprop-change email getting fired off in
recent weeks. And maybe some of it is unnecessary. But I don't want this
thread to result in folks being afraid of fixing up log messages for fear of
a hand smack. I would encourage everyone to find the happy middle ground
here: please keep reviewing log messages, fixing obvious typos, etc., but
if something looks it might be "personal flavor", check that with the
original author before reworking it.
I don't know your history with the project, Lübbe. But we'd enjoy having
you contributing again. What can we reasonably do to make the experience
better this time around?
--
C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
CollabNet <> www.collab.net <> Distributed Development On Demand
Re: svn commit: propchange - r33150 - svn:log
Posted by Lübbe Onken <l....@rac.de>.
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Hash: SHA1
Greg Stein wrote:
> Why this change? Since the last time I spent working on Subversion, now
> that I'm back, I'm finding a crazy amount of attention spent to the log
> messages. Adding periods, correcting typos, adjusting indentation, etc.
> Shoot, I saw somebody correct a log from rev 1400 or so just a week ago.
>
> What is up with that? Where is the flexibility, and why so much attention?
which is the exact reason why I stopped contributing, even if it were
only translations. Too much formalism and bureaucracy. If I had only log
message formatting problems in real life...
Cheers
- - Lübbe
- --
___
oo // \\ "De Chelonian Mobile"
(_,\/ \_/ \ TortoiseSVN
\ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
/_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.nett
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Re: svn commit: propchange - r33150 - svn:log
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@red-bean.com>.
Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> writes:
> Thanks, but I could change it myself if I was concerned. I'm worried
> about the pattern/trend rather than this specific case. Changing a log
> message occurred maybe once a month when I used to contribute. Now, I
> see a dozen a week. And many for what I would call "pedantic" reasons
> rather than helpful. CMike points out that log message fixed can be
> good for all future contributors/readers, but I think the rigidity is
> troublesome (as Lubbe noted).
Rigidity would be demanding that someone else comply in advance with a
nit-picky procedure.
But fixing typos in other people's log messages later? Whatever. If
someone wants to do that, let them (note: unrelated to the "tho" thing,
which was not a typo!). I don't do it myself, though I'll fix up
someone's log message before applying their patch, for example.
If these take some noticeable amount of time to review, then that's a
problem. But for me, the propchange emails just fly by: see it, nod,
then on to the next message. Virtually no time taken. If other people
really find them distracting, then okay, let's solve that. But I don't
see how it's a "rigidity" issue, if it's not imposed in advance.
Not knowing the specifics of Lübbe's case, I can't say whether there was
nit-picking going on there. Lübbe, if the project imposed procedures
that made you decide not to contribute, we need to know! On the other
hand, if you don't say what the specific problems were, there's not much
we can do to fix it...
-K
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Re: svn commit: propchange - r33150 - svn:log
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
Thanks, but I could change it myself if I was concerned. I'm worried
about the pattern/trend rather than this specific case. Changing a log
message occurred maybe once a month when I used to contribute. Now, I
see a dozen a week. And many for what I would call "pedantic" reasons
rather than helpful. CMike points out that log message fixed can be
good for all future contributors/readers, but I think the rigidity is
troublesome (as Lubbe noted).
-g
On Sep 18, 2008, at 9:16, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <arfrever.fta@gmail.com
> wrote:
> 2008-09-18 14:46:43 Greg Stein napisał(a):
>> Why this change? Since the last time I spent working on Subversion,
>> now that I'm back, I'm finding a crazy amount of attention spent to
>> the log messages. Adding periods, correcting typos, adjusting
>> indentation, etc. Shoot, I saw somebody correct a log from rev 1400
>> or
>> so just a week ago.
>>
>> What is up with that? Where is the flexibility, and why so much
>> attention?
>>
>> And with this change to my log message, you remove *MY* character,
>> and
>> turn it into some bland message devoid of my personality. I *like*
>> shortening to "tho". I don't like you removing my personality from my
>> log messages. Are you also going to edit out a joke or quip that I
>> might put in there, in the future? Are all our log messages destined
>> for some bland, grey goo?
>
> I'm not native English speaker and I thought that "tho" is incorrect.
> I can revert this propchange, if you want.
>
>> On Sep 18, 2008, at 7:17, arfrever@tigris.org wrote:
>>
>>> Author: arfrever
>>> Revision: 33150
>>> Property Name: svn:log
>>> Action: modified
>>>
>>> Property diff:
>>> --- old property value
>>> +++ new property value
>>> @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@ Bring the branch up to date with respect
>>> An extra change snuck into this commit:
>>>
>>> Updated some comments on string/array lifetimes, and moved an array
>>> into
>>> -an iteration pool (tho its values are longer-lived).
>>> +an iteration pool (though its values are longer-lived).
>>>
>>> * subversion/libsvn_wc/experiment.c:
>>> (generic_walker): dirkeys can be in the iteration pool. the string
>>>
>>> ---
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: svn-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: svn-help@subversion.tigris.org
>>>
>
> --
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
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Re: svn commit: propchange - r33150 - svn:log
Posted by Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <ar...@gmail.com>.
2008-09-18 14:46:43 Greg Stein napisał(a):
> Why this change? Since the last time I spent working on Subversion,
> now that I'm back, I'm finding a crazy amount of attention spent to
> the log messages. Adding periods, correcting typos, adjusting
> indentation, etc. Shoot, I saw somebody correct a log from rev 1400 or
> so just a week ago.
>
> What is up with that? Where is the flexibility, and why so much
> attention?
>
> And with this change to my log message, you remove *MY* character, and
> turn it into some bland message devoid of my personality. I *like*
> shortening to "tho". I don't like you removing my personality from my
> log messages. Are you also going to edit out a joke or quip that I
> might put in there, in the future? Are all our log messages destined
> for some bland, grey goo?
I'm not native English speaker and I thought that "tho" is incorrect.
I can revert this propchange, if you want.
> On Sep 18, 2008, at 7:17, arfrever@tigris.org wrote:
>
> > Author: arfrever
> > Revision: 33150
> > Property Name: svn:log
> > Action: modified
> >
> > Property diff:
> > --- old property value
> > +++ new property value
> > @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@ Bring the branch up to date with respect
> > An extra change snuck into this commit:
> >
> > Updated some comments on string/array lifetimes, and moved an array
> > into
> > -an iteration pool (tho its values are longer-lived).
> > +an iteration pool (though its values are longer-lived).
> >
> > * subversion/libsvn_wc/experiment.c:
> > (generic_walker): dirkeys can be in the iteration pool. the string
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: svn-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: svn-help@subversion.tigris.org
> >
--
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis