Re: [User Community Action Required] Re: Pete ousted?

[Vincent Tence <vt...@sympatico.ca>]

Hi all,

Following is the humble opinion of an Avalon fan who has been
using the framework, ECM, logkit and many components in commercial
applications for 1+ year.

It seems rather strange - and for sure it worries me as a user - to see
somebody who has contributed so much to the Avalon project as a whole being
suspended this way. 

I am not a statistics expert, but I guess Pete's name is on more than 50% of
the code I use. I do know that all committers - and users who are supplying
patches - are putting great efforts into this project, but I feel like
without Pete's contribution, it not quite the same. So what should I expect
as a user? Is the priority still to get Avalon to the higher levels? I don't
want to believe that this codebase I have been relying on (and hopefully
will continue to) will loose its greatest contributors and with them, its
momemtum. Some explanations to the user base would be welcome.

I have always been very impressed by the quality of the individuals working
on Avalon and the quality of the work they produced. This is definitely a
great asset for the project. I also do believe that exploring different paths and 
confronting ideas is the way to go. I hope people are participating to 
this project to have fun and because they believe Avalon is great. But what I have 
seen on the list for several weeks is rather scary and don't encourage people to get involved,
which is a shame. Even worse if it goes to the point where people get kicked out ...

I can also imagine the effect it has on potential new users. As somebody pointed out recently,
the web site still indicates that some refactoring is taking place, so you end up looking at 
the mailing list and find out that it's not code but team refactoring happening :-( 
This is not the kind of statibility users will look for.

So please let Peter be in again and all keep up with the good work.

Cheers,
Vincent

On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 19:54, Paul Hammant wrote:
> Following on from Peter's posting and Sam Ruby's fair reply, I thought 
> I'd go public too...
> 
> Peter,
> 
> My heart bleeds for you dude.  I have been with this project for years, 
> I know what you have put in.  You have always been direct/assertive with 
> what you felt to be true, and many people understood that to be 
> aggression, which is wrong.  Many of us including me are very keen for 
> your return.  Even when the worst things were said about you, you 
> maintained a level tone. You held all in high-esteem, and never (well 
> 99.99% of the time) resorted to low blows or insults.  Your character 
> and dedication is fantastic, we all miss you here at Avalon. That's all 
> of us...
> 
> With the wisdom of the power's that be, a favourable wind, and some 
> positive advocacy from us & those you have helped over the years when 
> there was no need for you to get involved (and the rest of us were too 
> tired), you will hopefully be back /inside/ of the period allotted. 
>  Avalon and Apache is simply not complete without you.
> 
> Can all those that use Peter's works in open source and want his swift 
> return to the projects he loves please reply to this email with the 
> following section modified as appropriate:
> 
> *---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1) Power's that be: Please let me appeal on Peter's behalf
>   and ask if you may see fit to look past this current episode.
> 2) I use Peter's projects in my open source / proprietary /
>   commercial applications.
> 3) I have been helped by Peter in the past. I found his help very useful.
> 4) Please let Peter return to his projects at Apache, he's not so bad.
> *----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Please also spread the word, and get as many people as possible to reply 
> to this - Committers, Users, Visitors, Luminaries...
> 
> We'll also work on a http://jakarta.apache.org/site/peter.html page 
> right?  A guide to what makes the man tick.  This suggestion may be 
> cryptic to many ;-)
> 
> - Paul
> 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
-- 
Vincent Tence <vt...@sympatico.ca>


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Re: [User Community Action Required] Re: Pete ousted?

[Vincent Tence <vt...@sympatico.ca>]

My system clock is causing me trouble. I am re-posting with the correct
time. Sorry about that.

Cheers,
Vincent

On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 13:11, Vincent Tence wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Following is the humble opinion of an Avalon fan who has been
> using the framework, ECM, logkit and many components in commercial
> applications for 1+ year.
> 
> It seems rather strange - and for sure it worries me as a user - to see
> somebody who has contributed so much to the Avalon project as a whole being
> suspended this way. 
> 
> I am not a statistics expert, but I guess Pete's name is on more than 50% of
> the code I use. I do know that all committers - and users who are supplying
> patches - are putting great efforts into this project, but I feel like
> without Pete's contribution, it not quite the same. So what should I expect
> as a user? Is the priority still to get Avalon to the higher levels? I don't
> want to believe that this codebase I have been relying on (and hopefully
> will continue to) will loose its greatest contributors and with them, its
> momemtum. Some explanations to the user base would be welcome.
> 
> I have always been very impressed by the quality of the individuals working
> on Avalon and the quality of the work they produced. This is definitely a
> great asset for the project. I also do believe that exploring different paths and 
> confronting ideas is the way to go. I hope people are participating to 
> this project to have fun and because they believe Avalon is great. But what I have 
> seen on the list for several weeks is rather scary and don't encourage people to get involved,
> which is a shame. Even worse if it goes to the point where people get kicked out ...
> 
> I can also imagine the effect it has on potential new users. As somebody pointed out recently,
> the web site still indicates that some refactoring is taking place, so you end up looking at 
> the mailing list and find out that it's not code but team refactoring happening :-( 
> This is not the kind of statibility users will look for.
> 
> So please let Peter be in again and all keep up with the good work.
> 
> Cheers,
> Vincent
> 
> On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 19:54, Paul Hammant wrote:
> > Following on from Peter's posting and Sam Ruby's fair reply, I thought 
> > I'd go public too...
> > 
> > Peter,
> > 
> > My heart bleeds for you dude.  I have been with this project for years, 
> > I know what you have put in.  You have always been direct/assertive with 
> > what you felt to be true, and many people understood that to be 
> > aggression, which is wrong.  Many of us including me are very keen for 
> > your return.  Even when the worst things were said about you, you 
> > maintained a level tone. You held all in high-esteem, and never (well 
> > 99.99% of the time) resorted to low blows or insults.  Your character 
> > and dedication is fantastic, we all miss you here at Avalon. That's all 
> > of us...
> > 
> > With the wisdom of the power's that be, a favourable wind, and some 
> > positive advocacy from us & those you have helped over the years when 
> > there was no need for you to get involved (and the rest of us were too 
> > tired), you will hopefully be back /inside/ of the period allotted. 
> >  Avalon and Apache is simply not complete without you.
> > 
> > Can all those that use Peter's works in open source and want his swift 
> > return to the projects he loves please reply to this email with the 
> > following section modified as appropriate:
> > 
> > *---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 1) Power's that be: Please let me appeal on Peter's behalf
> >   and ask if you may see fit to look past this current episode.
> > 2) I use Peter's projects in my open source / proprietary /
> >   commercial applications.
> > 3) I have been helped by Peter in the past. I found his help very useful.
> > 4) Please let Peter return to his projects at Apache, he's not so bad.
> > *----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Please also spread the word, and get as many people as possible to reply 
> > to this - Committers, Users, Visitors, Luminaries...
> > 
> > We'll also work on a http://jakarta.apache.org/site/peter.html page 
> > right?  A guide to what makes the man tick.  This suggestion may be 
> > cryptic to many ;-)
> > 
> > - Paul
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
-- 
Vincent Tence <vt...@sympatico.ca>


--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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