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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com> on 2005/08/04 00:10:40 UTC
[OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
I just uploaded the slides from my OSCON talk this afternoon,
comparing several web frameworks on how they implement six major
architectural features. Several people have asked for them, so here's
a link:
http://people.apache.org/~craigmcc/oscon_2005_web_architectures.pdf
They are also on the OSCON web site.
Craig
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RE: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
Posted by Mark Benussi <ma...@hotmail.com>.
Nope what channel is it on?
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Jouravlev [mailto:jmikus@gmail.com]
Sent: 04 August 2005 16:32
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
On 8/4/05, Mark Benussi <ma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ahem.... JSF is not a Framework, it is an implementation specification.
Its
> not made by someone like Apache or Sun (But can be implemented by them to
> the specification or by another vendor, IBM etc). Struts is an application
> Framework, JSF is a user interface implementation.
JSF was supposed to be just a view layer, but now it is a framework on
itself. Ok, there are two frameworks: Sun's and Apache's ;)
> And I prefer the muts nuts..... that must transalate accross to the boys
on
> the other side of the atlantic.
Have you watched "Formula 51"?
Michael.
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Re: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
Posted by Michael Jouravlev <jm...@gmail.com>.
On 8/4/05, Mark Benussi <ma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ahem.... JSF is not a Framework, it is an implementation specification. Its
> not made by someone like Apache or Sun (But can be implemented by them to
> the specification or by another vendor, IBM etc). Struts is an application
> Framework, JSF is a user interface implementation.
JSF was supposed to be just a view layer, but now it is a framework on
itself. Ok, there are two frameworks: Sun's and Apache's ;)
> And I prefer the muts nuts..... that must transalate accross to the boys on
> the other side of the atlantic.
Have you watched "Formula 51"?
Michael.
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Re: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
Posted by Mark Benussi <ma...@hotmail.com>.
Ahem.... JSF is not a Framework, it is an implementation specification. Its
not made by someone like Apache or Sun (But can be implemented by them to
the specification or by another vendor, IBM etc). Struts is an application
Framework, JSF is a user interface implementation.
And I prefer the muts nuts..... that must transalate accross to the boys on
the other side of the atlantic.
----Original Message Follows----
From: Adam Hardy <ah...@cyberspaceroad.com>
Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
To: Struts Users Mailing List <us...@struts.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:08:21 +0100
Well you're all primed to understand the explanation given at that link
then! Check it out, or have you no web access?
M4RC0 on 04/08/05 12:37, wrote:
>so .... if i'm right... the entire phrase should mean:
>
>
>>JSF: obviously the dog's testicles
>
>
>mmm ... i'm still confused :P
>
>I mean, i'd like to know an opinion about JSF compared to other
>frameworks, but also the english class is appreciated too :P
>
>tnx
>
>
>2005/8/4, Adam Hardy <ah...@cyberspaceroad.com>:
>
>>M4RC0 on 04/08/05 11:54, wrote:
>>
>>>Sorry but:
>>>what's the meaning of "dog's gonads"? :P
>>>
>>
>>You can look up 'gonad' in any medical dictionary, but as for the phrase
>>I based it on, try this:
>>
>>http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/114500.html
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
Posted by Adam Hardy <ah...@cyberspaceroad.com>.
Well you're all primed to understand the explanation given at that link
then! Check it out, or have you no web access?
M4RC0 on 04/08/05 12:37, wrote:
> so .... if i'm right... the entire phrase should mean:
>
>
>>JSF: obviously the dog's testicles
>
>
> mmm ... i'm still confused :P
>
> I mean, i'd like to know an opinion about JSF compared to other
> frameworks, but also the english class is appreciated too :P
>
> tnx
>
>
> 2005/8/4, Adam Hardy <ah...@cyberspaceroad.com>:
>
>>M4RC0 on 04/08/05 11:54, wrote:
>>
>>>Sorry but:
>>>what's the meaning of "dog's gonads"? :P
>>>
>>
>>You can look up 'gonad' in any medical dictionary, but as for the phrase
>>I based it on, try this:
>>
>>http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/114500.html
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
Posted by M4RC0 <m4...@gmail.com>.
so .... if i'm right... the entire phrase should mean:
> JSF: obviously the dog's testicles
mmm ... i'm still confused :P
I mean, i'd like to know an opinion about JSF compared to other
frameworks, but also the english class is appreciated too :P
tnx
2005/8/4, Adam Hardy <ah...@cyberspaceroad.com>:
> M4RC0 on 04/08/05 11:54, wrote:
> > Sorry but:
> > what's the meaning of "dog's gonads"? :P
> >
>
> You can look up 'gonad' in any medical dictionary, but as for the phrase
> I based it on, try this:
>
> http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/114500.html
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
M4RC0
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Re: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
Posted by Adam Hardy <ah...@cyberspaceroad.com>.
M4RC0 on 04/08/05 11:54, wrote:
> Sorry but:
> what's the meaning of "dog's gonads"? :P
>
You can look up 'gonad' in any medical dictionary, but as for the phrase
I based it on, try this:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/114500.html
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Re: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
Posted by M4RC0 <m4...@gmail.com>.
Sorry but:
what's the meaning of "dog's gonads"? :P
2005/8/4, Adam Hardy <ah...@cyberspaceroad.com>:
> Craig McClanahan on 03/08/05 23:10, wrote:
> > I just uploaded the slides from my OSCON talk this afternoon,
> > comparing several web frameworks on how they implement six major
> > architectural features. Several people have asked for them, so here's
> > a link:
> >
> > http://people.apache.org/~craigmcc/oscon_2005_web_architectures.pdf
>
> Can I summarise in a slightly Friday manner :)
>
> (1) Struts: v1.3 should be better, in fact there are at least 5 major
> points that need addressing
>
> (2) Webwork: kind of weird, has Actions but has unknowns like XWork,
> interceptor stacks, OGNL
>
> (3) Spring MVC: totally flexible, configurable, wide variety of
> implementations - everything to everybody. Sounds like it can make
> coffee too. Good if you love XML config files.
>
> (4) Tapestry: even weirder than Webwork, and you don't get to use JSPs,
> you have to write your HTML like ColdFusion
>
> (5) JSF: obviously the dog's gonads
>
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>
>
--
M4RC0
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Re: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
Posted by "Craig A. Vanderborgh" <cr...@voxware.com>.
Adam Hardy wrote:
> Craig McClanahan on 03/08/05 23:10, wrote:
>
>> I just uploaded the slides from my OSCON talk this afternoon,
>> comparing several web frameworks on how they implement six major
>> architectural features. Several people have asked for them, so here's
>> a link:
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~craigmcc/oscon_2005_web_architectures.pdf
>
>
> Can I summarise in a slightly Friday manner :)
>
> (1) Struts: v1.3 should be better, in fact there are at least 5 major
> points that need addressing
>
> (2) Webwork: kind of weird, has Actions but has unknowns like XWork,
> interceptor stacks, OGNL
>
> (3) Spring MVC: totally flexible, configurable, wide variety of
> implementations - everything to everybody. Sounds like it can make
> coffee too. Good if you love XML config files.
>
This is kind of a breezy and under-informed synopsis. Spring Web MVC is
about the same in terms of XML configuration as Struts, but it has
back-end infrastructure and really clean good design, both of which
Struts lack. Instead of "being everything to everybody", it's "exactly
what people like us" (and thousands of others) need.
If you're still stuck on Struts like we were, why? It's 2005, and
Struts is now O-L-D and it hasn't aged especially well. Spring turns
out a much better solution for most web applications than Struts. To
summarize more meaningfully, the primary benefits of Spring compared
with Struts and other solutions are:
1. Spring is a much more complete application framework providing
persistence infrastructure, AOP, lightweight container, etc. in addition
to web MVC.
2. Spring is non-invasive and is a "pick-and-choose" framework. It
provides just about everything most people need, but you only have to
learn about and use the things YOU need/want.
3. Spring is the right solution for those among us who are tired of
being their own integrator. With Spring, the infrastructure is already
integrated and so this is a significant time saver for many projects.
4. Spring is a first-principles design framework. It was very carefully
and very elegantly designed from the ground up by Rod Johnson and
Juergen Hoeller. If you are even a little bit careful, these ideas will
permeate your own application. And these are great ideas. So when you
build a Spring application correctly you end up with something that is
an intrinsically better and therefore more long-lasting and flexible
piece of software.
Regards,
craig vanderborgh
> (4) Tapestry: even weirder than Webwork, and you don't get to use
> JSPs, you have to write your HTML like ColdFusion
>
> (5) JSF: obviously the dog's gonads
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [OT] My O'Reilly Open Source Conference Talk
Posted by Adam Hardy <ah...@cyberspaceroad.com>.
Craig McClanahan on 03/08/05 23:10, wrote:
> I just uploaded the slides from my OSCON talk this afternoon,
> comparing several web frameworks on how they implement six major
> architectural features. Several people have asked for them, so here's
> a link:
>
> http://people.apache.org/~craigmcc/oscon_2005_web_architectures.pdf
Can I summarise in a slightly Friday manner :)
(1) Struts: v1.3 should be better, in fact there are at least 5 major
points that need addressing
(2) Webwork: kind of weird, has Actions but has unknowns like XWork,
interceptor stacks, OGNL
(3) Spring MVC: totally flexible, configurable, wide variety of
implementations - everything to everybody. Sounds like it can make
coffee too. Good if you love XML config files.
(4) Tapestry: even weirder than Webwork, and you don't get to use JSPs,
you have to write your HTML like ColdFusion
(5) JSF: obviously the dog's gonads
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