You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Phase Web and Multimedia <ma...@phase.ws> on 2002/08/18 18:39:39 UTC
Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
I have seen so many extensions and ideas being developed around struts. One
of the things that I have noticed is that there are a lot of different
apporaches being taken towards using Struts. In my own conversations with
colleagues I have found that there is a fair amount of confusion mounting
over proper design patterns within and extending struts.
I don't know if there is a base set of "suggested" patterns that have been
layed out. But, maybe we can collect the wisdom of the contirbutors in order
to avoid development of heavy or misplaced extensions or apps. I know Ted
has laid down some stuff for us to view in his "Catalog". But, there have
been several things I've seen popping up. For example, The debate used to
be... do i extend the Action class or the Action Servlet... Now, we seem to
be extending the crap out of the Request Processor. The danger is that there
many ways to implement an idea and it could work in the extended Action
class or the extended RequestProcessor. But, why should we extend the
ReqeuestProcessor or the Action class. What extensions are best run against
each of the extendable classes within struts. Also, I have seen a
processPreprocess() method that is being used in the RequestProcessor class.
What is the best use for processPreproccess()?
Finally, from what i am seeing of the struts codebase is that it is starting
to get really bulky. I thought the goal was to remain lightweight and
provide hooks for extensions. I am seeing all the nifty extensions being
developed and put into the base. Isn't there a way we can provide
configurable extending? Rather than work on making the base include every
good extension, why not make the base easier to extend and provide a
standard set of hooks that can be used to access the internals. I think
maybe I'm all washed up on this. I have been using struts for a year now and
I am constantly wondering what the heck is going on. Everyone seems to be
doing things different and it's getting difficult to build a project that is
going to have some longevity.
In summary, I am seeing people develop extensions that conflict and do not
play nice with other extensions. I see Action classes being extended and I
see RequestProccessor classes being extended which are making for a mighty
mess when trying to get them to play together in a single project. It just
seems that there needs to be a little clarity on extending practice/purpose
and we need to get some clarity or development focus on an easier and more
configurable extending of struts.
Is anyone else thinking what I am?
Brandon Goodin
Phase Web and Multimedia
P (406) 862-2245
F (406) 862-0354
mail@phase.ws
http://www.phase.ws
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
Posted by Tiago Nodari <tn...@brturbo.com>.
hey everyone, i just joined the mailing list a few days ago, and
wow some many good discussions.
Patterns would help a lot, specially for ppl like me who are
really new to Struts and still need to learn the best way to use
struts. Since I cant help in creating patterns, I can help in putting the
patterns in the XML format, creating the diagrams or anything like that :)
Tiago Nodari
At 09:41 PM 8/18/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>If anyone wants to start writing up patterns and submitting them to the
>project (preferably in XML), I'd be happy to shepard them into the
>documentation. But someone has to be willling to do the work. This is an
>open source project, and everyone who uses Struts is part of the team. We
>don't take your money, but we will take your contributions =:0)
>
>If anyone is in the mood to help with the documentation, but isn't up for
>cataloging patterns, there are a number of 1.1 sections still marked
>[:TODO:]. There are also still a number of open questions on the newbie FAQ.
>
>http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/newbie.html
>
>-Ted.
>
>Phase Web and Multimedia wrote:
>
>>I have seen so many extensions and ideas being developed around struts. One
>>of the things that I have noticed is that there are a lot of different
>>apporaches being taken towards using Struts. In my own conversations with
>>colleagues I have found that there is a fair amount of confusion mounting
>>over proper design patterns within and extending struts.
>>
>>I don't know if there is a base set of "suggested" patterns that have been
>>layed out. But, maybe we can collect the wisdom of the contirbutors in order
>>to avoid development of heavy or misplaced extensions or apps. I know Ted
>>has laid down some stuff for us to view in his "Catalog". But, there have
>>been several things I've seen popping up. For example, The debate used to
>>be... do i extend the Action class or the Action Servlet... Now, we seem to
>>be extending the crap out of the Request Processor. The danger is that there
>>many ways to implement an idea and it could work in the extended Action
>>class or the extended RequestProcessor. But, why should we extend the
>>ReqeuestProcessor or the Action class. What extensions are best run against
>>each of the extendable classes within struts. Also, I have seen a
>>processPreprocess() method that is being used in the RequestProcessor class.
>>What is the best use for processPreproccess()?
>>
>>Finally, from what i am seeing of the struts codebase is that it is starting
>>to get really bulky. I thought the goal was to remain lightweight and
>>provide hooks for extensions. I am seeing all the nifty extensions being
>>developed and put into the base. Isn't there a way we can provide
>>configurable extending? Rather than work on making the base include every
>>good extension, why not make the base easier to extend and provide a
>>standard set of hooks that can be used to access the internals. I think
>>maybe I'm all washed up on this. I have been using struts for a year now and
>>I am constantly wondering what the heck is going on. Everyone seems to be
>>doing things different and it's getting difficult to build a project that is
>>going to have some longevity.
>>
>>In summary, I am seeing people develop extensions that conflict and do not
>>play nice with other extensions. I see Action classes being extended and I
>>see RequestProccessor classes being extended which are making for a mighty
>>mess when trying to get them to play together in a single project. It just
>>seems that there needs to be a little clarity on extending practice/purpose
>>and we need to get some clarity or development focus on an easier and more
>>configurable extending of struts.
>>
>>Is anyone else thinking what I am?
>>
>>
>>Brandon Goodin
>>Phase Web and Multimedia
>>P (406) 862-2245
>>F (406) 862-0354
>>mail@phase.ws
>>http://www.phase.ws
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
cya,
Tiago Nodari
Need a JSP Developer? I am looking for a job in the US...
www.nodari.org
Re: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
Contributing to the documentation isn't any different than contributing
to the codebase. Just figure out where it should go and submit a patch
or enhancement request through bugzilla. A list of which classes must be
extended and which can be used as-is (whitebox vs blackbox) could be
handled in the newbie FAQ. Or we could add a new section to the User
Guide. The catalog document on my site is in HTML right now, but if
someone converted that to XML, we could move that over to the Struts
site and expand on that. Whoever does the work gets to make the decision.
There is also a lot of material that can be mined from the list. For
example, Craig posted some nice material on populating ActionForms on
the Dev list last week. If someone took that material, poured it into
XML, and submitted it to Bugzilla, we'd be on our way to a patterns
document. As a rule, 90% of anything Craig posts is a FAQ waiting to
happen. Someone just needs to take the initiative to convert the
exchange to a documentation entry.
Patches to the Javdocs are also welcome. The Struts Javadocs are a
wealth of detail and should be considered the primary source of
information. Moving forward, I'd like to expand on the Developers Guides
<http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/doc-1.0.2/api/org/apache/struts/taglib/bean/package-summary.html#package_description>
as a replacement for the User Guide. We can then use FAQs and working
examples <http://sourceforge.net/projects/struts> to fill in the blanks.
As it stands, maintaining details in the User Guide and in the Javadocs
is becoming a maintenance burden, and the Developer Guides model seems
like a better way to go.
One thing to keep in mind is that Struts "grew in the telling". There
are many places where the evolution of the codebase has caused
functionality to overlap. Someone realizes something is too hard to do
and so they introduce an easier way to do it. But since many people have
already done it the hard way, we can't change the old t way without
breaking a lot of code. The 1.1 codebase would be much simplier if not
for the 1.0 compatibility issues. But we can't desert all the 1.0
production applications on a "point release" and so we have to deal with
the legacy issues.
-Ted.
Phase Web and Multimedia wrote:
>Ted,
>
>I totally dig your catalog and i have been examining Artimus. Stellar piece
>of work btw. I would love to receive more clarity towards which classes are
>best extended for what functions. For example, there are things that i can
>do in an Action class that can also be done in a RequestProcessor. But for
>portability, plugability and efficiency which is the best to extend for
>what. Also, it would be good to list which classes are made to be extended.
>There are four main ones that I can think of off the top of my head...
>RequestProcessor, Form, Action and ActionServlet.
>
>I would be totally willing to provide some pattern docs, but i am afraid my
>design patterns would be weak in comparison to what you have assembled in
>catalog. I would also be totally willing to receive various design patterns
>from people out there that are using struts and assemble them into xml. It
>would both educate me and give me an opportunity to give back to a project
>that has provided so much. Anyways, where do i sign-up and what are the
>qualifications?
>
>Brandon Goodin
>Phase Web and Multimedia
>P (406) 862-2245
>F (406) 862-0354
>mail@phase.ws
>http://www.phase.ws
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ted Husted [mailto:husted@apache.org]
>>Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 7:41 PM
>>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
>>
>>
>>If anyone wants to start writing up patterns and submitting them to the
>>project (preferably in XML), I'd be happy to shepard them into the
>>documentation. But someone has to be willling to do the work. This is an
>>open source project, and everyone who uses Struts is part of the team.
>>We don't take your money, but we will take your contributions =:0)
>>
>>If anyone is in the mood to help with the documentation, but isn't up
>>for cataloging patterns, there are a number of 1.1 sections still marked
>>[:TODO:]. There are also still a number of open questions on the
>>newbie FAQ.
>>
>>http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/newbie.html
>>
>>-Ted.
>>
>>Phase Web and Multimedia wrote:
>>
>>>I have seen so many extensions and ideas being developed around
>>>
>>struts. One
>>
>>>of the things that I have noticed is that there are a lot of different
>>>apporaches being taken towards using Struts. In my own conversations with
>>>colleagues I have found that there is a fair amount of confusion mounting
>>>over proper design patterns within and extending struts.
>>>
>>>I don't know if there is a base set of "suggested" patterns that
>>>
>>have been
>>
>>>layed out. But, maybe we can collect the wisdom of the
>>>
>>contirbutors in order
>>
>>>to avoid development of heavy or misplaced extensions or apps. I know Ted
>>>has laid down some stuff for us to view in his "Catalog". But, there have
>>>been several things I've seen popping up. For example, The debate used to
>>>be... do i extend the Action class or the Action Servlet... Now,
>>>
>>we seem to
>>
>>>be extending the crap out of the Request Processor. The danger
>>>
>>is that there
>>
>>>many ways to implement an idea and it could work in the extended Action
>>>class or the extended RequestProcessor. But, why should we extend the
>>>ReqeuestProcessor or the Action class. What extensions are best
>>>
>>run against
>>
>>>each of the extendable classes within struts. Also, I have seen a
>>>processPreprocess() method that is being used in the
>>>
>>RequestProcessor class.
>>
>>>What is the best use for processPreproccess()?
>>>
>>>Finally, from what i am seeing of the struts codebase is that it
>>>
>>is starting
>>
>>>to get really bulky. I thought the goal was to remain lightweight and
>>>provide hooks for extensions. I am seeing all the nifty extensions being
>>>developed and put into the base. Isn't there a way we can provide
>>>configurable extending? Rather than work on making the base include every
>>>good extension, why not make the base easier to extend and provide a
>>>standard set of hooks that can be used to access the internals. I think
>>>maybe I'm all washed up on this. I have been using struts for a
>>>
>>year now and
>>
>>>I am constantly wondering what the heck is going on. Everyone seems to be
>>>doing things different and it's getting difficult to build a
>>>
>>project that is
>>
>>>going to have some longevity.
>>>
>>>In summary, I am seeing people develop extensions that conflict
>>>
>>and do not
>>
>>>play nice with other extensions. I see Action classes being
>>>
>>extended and I
>>
>>>see RequestProccessor classes being extended which are making
>>>
>>for a mighty
>>
>>>mess when trying to get them to play together in a single
>>>
>>project. It just
>>
>>>seems that there needs to be a little clarity on extending
>>>
>>practice/purpose
>>
>>>and we need to get some clarity or development focus on an
>>>
>>easier and more
>>
>>>configurable extending of struts.
>>>
>>>Is anyone else thinking what I am?
>>>
>>>
>>>Brandon Goodin
>>>Phase Web and Multimedia
>>>P (406) 862-2245
>>>F (406) 862-0354
>>>mail@phase.ws
>>>http://www.phase.ws
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
Posted by Phase Web and Multimedia <ma...@phase.ws>.
Ted,
I totally dig your catalog and i have been examining Artimus. Stellar piece
of work btw. I would love to receive more clarity towards which classes are
best extended for what functions. For example, there are things that i can
do in an Action class that can also be done in a RequestProcessor. But for
portability, plugability and efficiency which is the best to extend for
what. Also, it would be good to list which classes are made to be extended.
There are four main ones that I can think of off the top of my head...
RequestProcessor, Form, Action and ActionServlet.
I would be totally willing to provide some pattern docs, but i am afraid my
design patterns would be weak in comparison to what you have assembled in
catalog. I would also be totally willing to receive various design patterns
from people out there that are using struts and assemble them into xml. It
would both educate me and give me an opportunity to give back to a project
that has provided so much. Anyways, where do i sign-up and what are the
qualifications?
Brandon Goodin
Phase Web and Multimedia
P (406) 862-2245
F (406) 862-0354
mail@phase.ws
http://www.phase.ws
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Husted [mailto:husted@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 7:41 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
>
>
> If anyone wants to start writing up patterns and submitting them to the
> project (preferably in XML), I'd be happy to shepard them into the
> documentation. But someone has to be willling to do the work. This is an
> open source project, and everyone who uses Struts is part of the team.
> We don't take your money, but we will take your contributions =:0)
>
> If anyone is in the mood to help with the documentation, but isn't up
> for cataloging patterns, there are a number of 1.1 sections still marked
> [:TODO:]. There are also still a number of open questions on the
> newbie FAQ.
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/newbie.html
>
> -Ted.
>
> Phase Web and Multimedia wrote:
>
> >I have seen so many extensions and ideas being developed around
> struts. One
> >of the things that I have noticed is that there are a lot of different
> >apporaches being taken towards using Struts. In my own conversations with
> >colleagues I have found that there is a fair amount of confusion mounting
> >over proper design patterns within and extending struts.
> >
> >I don't know if there is a base set of "suggested" patterns that
> have been
> >layed out. But, maybe we can collect the wisdom of the
> contirbutors in order
> >to avoid development of heavy or misplaced extensions or apps. I know Ted
> >has laid down some stuff for us to view in his "Catalog". But, there have
> >been several things I've seen popping up. For example, The debate used to
> >be... do i extend the Action class or the Action Servlet... Now,
> we seem to
> >be extending the crap out of the Request Processor. The danger
> is that there
> >many ways to implement an idea and it could work in the extended Action
> >class or the extended RequestProcessor. But, why should we extend the
> >ReqeuestProcessor or the Action class. What extensions are best
> run against
> >each of the extendable classes within struts. Also, I have seen a
> >processPreprocess() method that is being used in the
> RequestProcessor class.
> >What is the best use for processPreproccess()?
> >
> >Finally, from what i am seeing of the struts codebase is that it
> is starting
> >to get really bulky. I thought the goal was to remain lightweight and
> >provide hooks for extensions. I am seeing all the nifty extensions being
> >developed and put into the base. Isn't there a way we can provide
> >configurable extending? Rather than work on making the base include every
> >good extension, why not make the base easier to extend and provide a
> >standard set of hooks that can be used to access the internals. I think
> >maybe I'm all washed up on this. I have been using struts for a
> year now and
> >I am constantly wondering what the heck is going on. Everyone seems to be
> >doing things different and it's getting difficult to build a
> project that is
> >going to have some longevity.
> >
> >In summary, I am seeing people develop extensions that conflict
> and do not
> >play nice with other extensions. I see Action classes being
> extended and I
> >see RequestProccessor classes being extended which are making
> for a mighty
> >mess when trying to get them to play together in a single
> project. It just
> >seems that there needs to be a little clarity on extending
> practice/purpose
> >and we need to get some clarity or development focus on an
> easier and more
> >configurable extending of struts.
> >
> >Is anyone else thinking what I am?
> >
> >
> >Brandon Goodin
> >Phase Web and Multimedia
> >P (406) 862-2245
> >F (406) 862-0354
> >mail@phase.ws
> >http://www.phase.ws
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
If anyone wants to start writing up patterns and submitting them to the
project (preferably in XML), I'd be happy to shepard them into the
documentation. But someone has to be willling to do the work. This is an
open source project, and everyone who uses Struts is part of the team.
We don't take your money, but we will take your contributions =:0)
If anyone is in the mood to help with the documentation, but isn't up
for cataloging patterns, there are a number of 1.1 sections still marked
[:TODO:]. There are also still a number of open questions on the newbie FAQ.
http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/newbie.html
-Ted.
Phase Web and Multimedia wrote:
>I have seen so many extensions and ideas being developed around struts. One
>of the things that I have noticed is that there are a lot of different
>apporaches being taken towards using Struts. In my own conversations with
>colleagues I have found that there is a fair amount of confusion mounting
>over proper design patterns within and extending struts.
>
>I don't know if there is a base set of "suggested" patterns that have been
>layed out. But, maybe we can collect the wisdom of the contirbutors in order
>to avoid development of heavy or misplaced extensions or apps. I know Ted
>has laid down some stuff for us to view in his "Catalog". But, there have
>been several things I've seen popping up. For example, The debate used to
>be... do i extend the Action class or the Action Servlet... Now, we seem to
>be extending the crap out of the Request Processor. The danger is that there
>many ways to implement an idea and it could work in the extended Action
>class or the extended RequestProcessor. But, why should we extend the
>ReqeuestProcessor or the Action class. What extensions are best run against
>each of the extendable classes within struts. Also, I have seen a
>processPreprocess() method that is being used in the RequestProcessor class.
>What is the best use for processPreproccess()?
>
>Finally, from what i am seeing of the struts codebase is that it is starting
>to get really bulky. I thought the goal was to remain lightweight and
>provide hooks for extensions. I am seeing all the nifty extensions being
>developed and put into the base. Isn't there a way we can provide
>configurable extending? Rather than work on making the base include every
>good extension, why not make the base easier to extend and provide a
>standard set of hooks that can be used to access the internals. I think
>maybe I'm all washed up on this. I have been using struts for a year now and
>I am constantly wondering what the heck is going on. Everyone seems to be
>doing things different and it's getting difficult to build a project that is
>going to have some longevity.
>
>In summary, I am seeing people develop extensions that conflict and do not
>play nice with other extensions. I see Action classes being extended and I
>see RequestProccessor classes being extended which are making for a mighty
>mess when trying to get them to play together in a single project. It just
>seems that there needs to be a little clarity on extending practice/purpose
>and we need to get some clarity or development focus on an easier and more
>configurable extending of struts.
>
>Is anyone else thinking what I am?
>
>
>Brandon Goodin
>Phase Web and Multimedia
>P (406) 862-2245
>F (406) 862-0354
>mail@phase.ws
>http://www.phase.ws
>
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: when to use Struts
Posted by Joel Rees <jo...@alpsgiken.gr.jp>.
> However, my
> main concern is that learning to use this 'wheel' might take longer than
> building one myself.
Great. Allocate a few extra days for the learning curve and try building
one yourself. That way, you'll know whether you really need a full-blown
framework like struts, and, if you do need the full framework, you'll by
a few days ahead on understanding the whys and hows.
--
Joel Rees <jo...@alpsgiken.gr.jp>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: when to use Struts
Posted by mailinglist <ml...@mangoosta.fr>.
> Yeah, I know what I am saying would be like reinventing the wheel, and
thus
> the point of using a framework (to not reinvent the wheel). However, my
> main concern is that learning to use this 'wheel' might take longer than
> building one myself.
And with the great books coming soon, you will learn faster and without pain
:o)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=br_ss_/002-4557268-
5498463
Chuck's preview is downloadable on the serverside:
http://www.theserverside.com/resources/strutsreview.jsp
(I hope Ted's draft book will also be available online)
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: when to use Struts
Posted by Melissa L Kelley <st...@stuology.net>.
On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, neal wrote:
In the short term, it may take longer. It really depends on how easily you
can learn, which nobody here can really gauge. The best way to determine
that would be to read through the User's Guide on the Struts website, take
a peek at the Javadocs, and run through a tutorial (which you can find
some in the Resources section on the Struts website).
The most valuable feature in my opinion would be the growing user base.
Resources to learn the framework pop up everyday. There is also the
consideration of other developers having to work on the code in the
future. The chances that you can find another developer that knows Struts is
increasing. And having a developer who already knows the framework would
save time over a developer having to learn a framework.
Case in point:
I work in the US in the energy industry which has been seeing a lot of
layoffs, my company not excluded. Our layoffs took our development base of
about 35 people (which were spread out in small teams of about 5 or 6
throught the company) to 6 people. The 6 of us that survived have had to
take on more applications. One of the apps that I took over was in the
middle of development. The business came to me and said they were in the
middle of doing some testing but they can't get to the app anymore. They
wanted to show the eventual end users parts of it in a couple of days, so
they wanted it to be up and running. Well, to shorten the story, the code
that was checked into source control was out of date, the build file
wouldn't run, and the war would not deploy. The only documentation that I
had was on the business requirements. The only thing that enabled me to
get that app up and running in time (and still be able to go home and
sleep) was that the developer chose to use Struts, which I was using on
another project and thus was familiar with. I'm also not having any
problems picking up the development of the app even with the lack of
documentation. The decision to use Struts by the previous developer was
quite a time saver for me.
--> stu: www.stuology.net
It just no longer is plain simple safe fun
when it's the psycho chimp that has the ray gun
------------------------------------------------
Stuology -- A million monkeys can't be wrong
> Yeah, I know what I am saying would be like reinventing the wheel, and thus
> the point of using a framework (to not reinvent the wheel). However, my
> main concern is that learning to use this 'wheel' might take longer than
> building one myself.
>
> I'm sure the guys who wrote Struts are masters of the field and I have heard
> great things about Struts. I guess I am simply posting the question to try
> to get more information about it. On the surface it just sounds like one
> more thing to learn, and I'm just trying to gauge the value.
>
> What about Struts do you find to be the most valuable features?
>
> Thanks! :)
>
> Neal
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: when to use Struts
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, neal wrote:
> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 15:07:45 -0700
> From: neal <ne...@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: Struts Users Mailing List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: RE: when to use Struts
>
> Yeah, I know what I am saying would be like reinventing the wheel, and thus
> the point of using a framework (to not reinvent the wheel). However, my
> main concern is that learning to use this 'wheel' might take longer than
> building one myself.
>
A data point might be interesting for you.
Especially in the early days when there wasn't anything like Struts
available, a very large number of people came across Struts and said
"boy, am I glad I found this ... now I don't have to keep maintaining my
own." and "gee, I was halfway done with my own and starting to find it
painful." These people recognized an important principle.
You're absolutely right that you can create a controller servlet like the
one in Struts pretty easily -- but that is not the entire cost in order to
do a fair comparison. You also have to count in all of the effort it's
going to take, now and forever more, to maintain your own framework and
add any new features that you see in other frameworks and want for
yourself.
I haven't added it up precisely, but just my own efforts that have gone
into Struts might prove illuminating ... the basic framework, and the
initial set of custom tags, was written from scratch over about twenty
hours on a three-day holiday weekend to the beach (needless to say, my
wife wasn't particularly happy with me ...). In the 27 months or so since
then, I've easily invested a hundred times that many hours in updates and
fixes -- to say nothing of the efforts of at least ten other committers
and untold numbers of people who have volunteerd patches and improvement
suggestions.
For a framework developer, that cost is pretty modest compared to the
returns. For a person whose primary job is to produce web applications,
the investment in building your own framework directly takes away precious
developer hours and attention from building the applications themselves --
the cost of training on a framework like Struts (assuming its meet your
basic needs) is trivial by comparison.
Craig
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: when to use Struts
Posted by Ian Vellosa <ve...@btopenworld.com>.
there is a good tutorial at;
http://rzserv2.fhnon.de/~lg002556/struts/Doku.html
if you can put aside a day or maybe two, you can get the basics all susseed
off this
-----Original Message-----
From: neal [mailto:nealcabage@yahoo.com]
Sent: 19 August 2002 00:08
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: when to use Struts
Yeah, I know what I am saying would be like reinventing the wheel, and thus
the point of using a framework (to not reinvent the wheel). However, my
main concern is that learning to use this 'wheel' might take longer than
building one myself.
I'm sure the guys who wrote Struts are masters of the field and I have heard
great things about Struts. I guess I am simply posting the question to try
to get more information about it. On the surface it just sounds like one
more thing to learn, and I'm just trying to gauge the value.
What about Struts do you find to be the most valuable features?
Thanks! :)
Neal
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: when to use Struts
Posted by neal <ne...@yahoo.com>.
Yeah, I know what I am saying would be like reinventing the wheel, and thus
the point of using a framework (to not reinvent the wheel). However, my
main concern is that learning to use this 'wheel' might take longer than
building one myself.
I'm sure the guys who wrote Struts are masters of the field and I have heard
great things about Struts. I guess I am simply posting the question to try
to get more information about it. On the surface it just sounds like one
more thing to learn, and I'm just trying to gauge the value.
What about Struts do you find to be the most valuable features?
Thanks! :)
Neal
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: when to use Struts
Posted by "V. Cekvenich" <ba...@newsguy.com>.
You can spend your time writing system programing (bugs?, performance?,
document? new hires? future?) and write yet another mvc, (do you think
you can out do the Struts team of Craig, Ted, Martin, Cedric,
Winterfeld, etc. etc, what they did for the last few years?)
or
spend your time re-using working/tested/ documented/ books on it code
and do applications programing to solve a bus. problem.
Some people drive a car to work (use technology) others get under the
car and tweak a combustion engine (get used by technology).
You should do what you think will let you build an app faster for your
client/employer.
v.
wrote:
> True. But MVC programming can be achieved without Struts. Writing an
> action servlet similar to that provided by Struts does not appear to be
> difficult.
>
> N
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: V. Cekvenich [mailto:basebean@newsguy.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 2:48 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: when to use Struts
>
>
> The bigger the project the more productivity you get with modular (MVC)
> programming.
> v.
>
> neal wrote:
>
>>I am new to struts and am attempting to get my around how valuable it
>
> would
>
>>be me.
>>
>>>>From what I gather, it's primary asset is the action servlet which makes
>
> for
>
>>a nice seperation between the view and the control. I also understand that
>>if provides some useful tools such as a connectionPool for JDBC, and some
>>XML parsing tools.
>>
>>Aside from these things, what makes Struts useful? I guess what I am
>>ultimatley wondering is if the time saved by using Struts will be eaten up
>>by the time it takes me to learn Struts, enough to use it?
>>
>>Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>Neal
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: when to use Struts
Posted by John Yu <jo...@scioworks.com>.
This article may help:
http://www.scioworks.net/devnews/articles/struts_adoption_issues/index.html
At 06:03 am 19-08-2002, you wrote:
>Why reinvent the wheel? If it has been done for you, why not use it and let
>someone else have all the problems of maintaining it?
>
>I've reecently started to use struts. I was a bit sceptical about it to
>begin with, but it has proved tot be really useful. Definatley recomend
>usinig it.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: neal [mailto:nealcabage@yahoo.com]
>Sent: 18 August 2002 23:50
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: when to use Struts
>
>
>True. But MVC programming can be achieved without Struts. Writing an
>action servlet similar to that provided by Struts does not appear to be
>difficult.
>
>N
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: V. Cekvenich [mailto:basebean@newsguy.com]
>Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 2:48 PM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: Re: when to use Struts
>
>
>The bigger the project the more productivity you get with modular (MVC)
>programming.
>v.
>
>neal wrote:
> > I am new to struts and am attempting to get my around how valuable it
>would
> > be me.
> >
> >>From what I gather, it's primary asset is the action servlet which makes
>for
> > a nice seperation between the view and the control. I also understand that
> > if provides some useful tools such as a connectionPool for JDBC, and some
> > XML parsing tools.
> >
> > Aside from these things, what makes Struts useful? I guess what I am
> > ultimatley wondering is if the time saved by using Struts will be eaten up
> > by the time it takes me to learn Struts, enough to use it?
> >
> > Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Neal
> >
--
John Yu Scioworks Technologies
e: john@scioworks.com w: +(65) 873 5989
w: http://www.scioworks.com m: +(65) 9782 9610
Scioworks Camino - "Don't develop Struts Apps without it!"
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: when to use Struts
Posted by Ian Vellosa <ve...@btopenworld.com>.
Why reinvent the wheel? If it has been done for you, why not use it and let
someone else have all the problems of maintaining it?
I've reecently started to use struts. I was a bit sceptical about it to
begin with, but it has proved tot be really useful. Definatley recomend
usinig it.
-----Original Message-----
From: neal [mailto:nealcabage@yahoo.com]
Sent: 18 August 2002 23:50
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: when to use Struts
True. But MVC programming can be achieved without Struts. Writing an
action servlet similar to that provided by Struts does not appear to be
difficult.
N
-----Original Message-----
From: V. Cekvenich [mailto:basebean@newsguy.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 2:48 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: when to use Struts
The bigger the project the more productivity you get with modular (MVC)
programming.
v.
neal wrote:
> I am new to struts and am attempting to get my around how valuable it
would
> be me.
>
>>>From what I gather, it's primary asset is the action servlet which makes
for
> a nice seperation between the view and the control. I also understand that
> if provides some useful tools such as a connectionPool for JDBC, and some
> XML parsing tools.
>
> Aside from these things, what makes Struts useful? I guess what I am
> ultimatley wondering is if the time saved by using Struts will be eaten up
> by the time it takes me to learn Struts, enough to use it?
>
> Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
> Neal
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: when to use Struts
Posted by neal <ne...@yahoo.com>.
True. But MVC programming can be achieved without Struts. Writing an
action servlet similar to that provided by Struts does not appear to be
difficult.
N
-----Original Message-----
From: V. Cekvenich [mailto:basebean@newsguy.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 2:48 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: when to use Struts
The bigger the project the more productivity you get with modular (MVC)
programming.
v.
neal wrote:
> I am new to struts and am attempting to get my around how valuable it
would
> be me.
>
>>>From what I gather, it's primary asset is the action servlet which makes
for
> a nice seperation between the view and the control. I also understand that
> if provides some useful tools such as a connectionPool for JDBC, and some
> XML parsing tools.
>
> Aside from these things, what makes Struts useful? I guess what I am
> ultimatley wondering is if the time saved by using Struts will be eaten up
> by the time it takes me to learn Struts, enough to use it?
>
> Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
> Neal
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: when to use Struts
Posted by "V. Cekvenich" <ba...@newsguy.com>.
The bigger the project the more productivity you get with modular (MVC)
programming.
v.
neal wrote:
> I am new to struts and am attempting to get my around how valuable it would
> be me.
>
>>>From what I gather, it's primary asset is the action servlet which makes for
> a nice seperation between the view and the control. I also understand that
> if provides some useful tools such as a connectionPool for JDBC, and some
> XML parsing tools.
>
> Aside from these things, what makes Struts useful? I guess what I am
> ultimatley wondering is if the time saved by using Struts will be eaten up
> by the time it takes me to learn Struts, enough to use it?
>
> Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
> Neal
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: when to use Struts
Posted by Kenneth Stout <ke...@attbi.com>.
Neal,
I believe there are four areas that make struts worth the investment.
1) struts allows you or a team to deal with each of the building blocks one
at a time. You start with the core and then add-on templates, tiles,
validator, etc as and when needed.
2) Rock solid code base.
3) It has an outstanding user community that is very willing to provide
assistance. If you haven't already noticed this mailing list generated 80 to
120 message per day. That is a lot of information and ideas flowing. And you
must stay around for the Friday threads. ;-)
4) There are a wealth of tools available to help make struts programming
easier, and struts integrates into the most popular IDEs.
Kenneth.
----- Original Message -----
From: "neal" <ne...@yahoo.com>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 2:39 PM
Subject: when to use Struts
>
> I am new to struts and am attempting to get my around how valuable it
would
> be me.
>
> From what I gather, it's primary asset is the action servlet which makes
for
> a nice seperation between the view and the control. I also understand that
> if provides some useful tools such as a connectionPool for JDBC, and some
> XML parsing tools.
>
> Aside from these things, what makes Struts useful? I guess what I am
> ultimatley wondering is if the time saved by using Struts will be eaten up
> by the time it takes me to learn Struts, enough to use it?
>
> Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
> Neal
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Struts Connection Pooling
Posted by faisal <fa...@hotmail.com>.
check the webapp in www.ibatis.com check the common.lib
Currently I am using the (adapted)lib with every web app on stuts
Faisal
----- Original Message -----
From: "neal" <ne...@yahoo.com>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 3:24 PM
Subject: Struts Connection Pooling
> Anyone have experience with Struts Connection pooling? If so, was it a
> positive experience? Easy to use? Stable? Fast? How does it compare to
> something such as Poolman? And, does any MySQL driver out their provide
> comparable connection pooling?
>
> Thanks.
> Neal
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Struts Connection Pooling
Posted by neal <ne...@yahoo.com>.
Anyone have experience with Struts Connection pooling? If so, was it a
positive experience? Easy to use? Stable? Fast? How does it compare to
something such as Poolman? And, does any MySQL driver out their provide
comparable connection pooling?
Thanks.
Neal
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: when to use Struts
Posted by Peggy Davidson <ti...@mindspring.com>.
We had a 30-day prototype to get up and running and chose Struts for the
framework. There were 3 team members, none of whom had ever used Struts
before. We chose it because of how much we had heard about ease of use, etc
from other peers. We made our deadline and the interface included about 20
jsp pages 15 action classes, 10 forms and a couple of servlets with a
database interface. Its not an overly complex application but my point is
we had no problem getting up to speed by walking through the example and
taking advantage of the helpful folks on the user's list. Another component
that we have recently incorporated (Which has really decreased the code in
the classes) is the basic validation stuff. Very easy to use and understand
and has cut my code down significantly.
One other point I want to make is the customer decided after delivery they
did not like the look and feel, well by using the struts, we were able to
change the look and feel within a day (and I mean it changed 180 degrees),
without impacting and of the business logic.
Peggy
-----Original Message-----
From: neal [mailto:nealcabage@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 5:40 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: when to use Struts
I am new to struts and am attempting to get my around how valuable it would
be me.
>From what I gather, it's primary asset is the action servlet which makes for
a nice seperation between the view and the control. I also understand that
if provides some useful tools such as a connectionPool for JDBC, and some
XML parsing tools.
Aside from these things, what makes Struts useful? I guess what I am
ultimatley wondering is if the time saved by using Struts will be eaten up
by the time it takes me to learn Struts, enough to use it?
Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Neal
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
when to use Struts
Posted by neal <ne...@yahoo.com>.
I am new to struts and am attempting to get my around how valuable it would
be me.
>From what I gather, it's primary asset is the action servlet which makes for
a nice seperation between the view and the control. I also understand that
if provides some useful tools such as a connectionPool for JDBC, and some
XML parsing tools.
Aside from these things, what makes Struts useful? I guess what I am
ultimatley wondering is if the time saved by using Struts will be eaten up
by the time it takes me to learn Struts, enough to use it?
Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Neal
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
Posted by Phase Web and Multimedia <ma...@phase.ws>.
I hope my original message is not taken as a slam on struts. I love it. I
want to chorus in by saying "GOOD JOB STRUTS TEAM!". I am just wondering if
my thoughts are totally unfounded or have some validity. I have been known
to be an idiot. :-)
Brandon Goodin
Phase Web and Multimedia
P (406) 862-2245
F (406) 862-0354
mail@phase.ws
http://www.phase.ws
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth Stout [mailto:kenneth.stout@attbi.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 11:30 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
>
>
> Brandon,
>
> I agree with your cry for better "suggested" patterns. I've been working
> with struts for less than six months and looking for patterns has been a
> constant endeavor. I have 8-inches of printed documents plus several
> megabytes of disc space dedicated to everything that I've been able to get
> my hands on. This search is made more difficult as struts moves
> from version
> 1.0 to 1.1. (Don't get me wrong. I think the new features being
> added in 1.1
> are absolutely fantastic!) However, what I have found in my search are
> examples for either trivial (test) environments, or major project
> environments. The former are good for testing some feature and
> the later is
> considerable overkill for the projects that I typically deal with.
>
> As I look back, I think my learning curve would have been shortened
> considerably if we had a library of patterns for small, medium, and large
> projects at both the 1.0 and 1.1 levels.
>
> As to your final point about struts being bulky with all of the included
> extensions. To this I would have to disagree. I really like the idea that
> some of the more common extension are included with new releases.
> This makes
> it much easier to update to a newer version of struts. I don't have to run
> around and collect them or wait for them to become compliant with
> the newer
> version of struts. On the other hand if I don't want to use them I simply
> don't move the jar's or configuration files into my new projects folders.
> The building block approach really allows you to minimize struts to only
> what you need. That's not something that you can say about some of the
> alternatives to struts.
>
> To the struts community: keep up the good work. There are a number of very
> talented programmers working on struts and with struts. And it shows!
>
> Kenneth.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phase Web and Multimedia" <ma...@phase.ws>
> To: "Struts User List" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 9:39 AM
> Subject: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
>
>
> > I have seen so many extensions and ideas being developed around struts.
> One
> > of the things that I have noticed is that there are a lot of different
> > apporaches being taken towards using Struts. In my own
> conversations with
> > colleagues I have found that there is a fair amount of
> confusion mounting
> > over proper design patterns within and extending struts.
> >
> > I don't know if there is a base set of "suggested" patterns
> that have been
> > layed out. But, maybe we can collect the wisdom of the contirbutors in
> order
> > to avoid development of heavy or misplaced extensions or apps.
> I know Ted
> > has laid down some stuff for us to view in his "Catalog". But,
> there have
> > been several things I've seen popping up. For example, The
> debate used to
> > be... do i extend the Action class or the Action Servlet... Now, we seem
> to
> > be extending the crap out of the Request Processor. The danger is that
> there
> > many ways to implement an idea and it could work in the extended Action
> > class or the extended RequestProcessor. But, why should we extend the
> > ReqeuestProcessor or the Action class. What extensions are best run
> against
> > each of the extendable classes within struts. Also, I have seen a
> > processPreprocess() method that is being used in the RequestProcessor
> class.
> > What is the best use for processPreproccess()?
> >
> > Finally, from what i am seeing of the struts codebase is that it is
> starting
> > to get really bulky. I thought the goal was to remain lightweight and
> > provide hooks for extensions. I am seeing all the nifty extensions being
> > developed and put into the base. Isn't there a way we can provide
> > configurable extending? Rather than work on making the base
> include every
> > good extension, why not make the base easier to extend and provide a
> > standard set of hooks that can be used to access the internals. I think
> > maybe I'm all washed up on this. I have been using struts for a year now
> and
> > I am constantly wondering what the heck is going on. Everyone
> seems to be
> > doing things different and it's getting difficult to build a
> project that
> is
> > going to have some longevity.
> >
> > In summary, I am seeing people develop extensions that conflict
> and do not
> > play nice with other extensions. I see Action classes being
> extended and I
> > see RequestProccessor classes being extended which are making
> for a mighty
> > mess when trying to get them to play together in a single
> project. It just
> > seems that there needs to be a little clarity on extending
> practice/purpose
> > and we need to get some clarity or development focus on an
> easier and more
> > configurable extending of struts.
> >
> > Is anyone else thinking what I am?
> >
> >
> > Brandon Goodin
> > Phase Web and Multimedia
> > P (406) 862-2245
> > F (406) 862-0354
> > mail@phase.ws
> > http://www.phase.ws
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
Posted by Kenneth Stout <ke...@attbi.com>.
Brandon,
I agree with your cry for better "suggested" patterns. I've been working
with struts for less than six months and looking for patterns has been a
constant endeavor. I have 8-inches of printed documents plus several
megabytes of disc space dedicated to everything that I've been able to get
my hands on. This search is made more difficult as struts moves from version
1.0 to 1.1. (Don't get me wrong. I think the new features being added in 1.1
are absolutely fantastic!) However, what I have found in my search are
examples for either trivial (test) environments, or major project
environments. The former are good for testing some feature and the later is
considerable overkill for the projects that I typically deal with.
As I look back, I think my learning curve would have been shortened
considerably if we had a library of patterns for small, medium, and large
projects at both the 1.0 and 1.1 levels.
As to your final point about struts being bulky with all of the included
extensions. To this I would have to disagree. I really like the idea that
some of the more common extension are included with new releases. This makes
it much easier to update to a newer version of struts. I don't have to run
around and collect them or wait for them to become compliant with the newer
version of struts. On the other hand if I don't want to use them I simply
don't move the jar's or configuration files into my new projects folders.
The building block approach really allows you to minimize struts to only
what you need. That's not something that you can say about some of the
alternatives to struts.
To the struts community: keep up the good work. There are a number of very
talented programmers working on struts and with struts. And it shows!
Kenneth.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phase Web and Multimedia" <ma...@phase.ws>
To: "Struts User List" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Struts Community is going crazy! :-))
> I have seen so many extensions and ideas being developed around struts.
One
> of the things that I have noticed is that there are a lot of different
> apporaches being taken towards using Struts. In my own conversations with
> colleagues I have found that there is a fair amount of confusion mounting
> over proper design patterns within and extending struts.
>
> I don't know if there is a base set of "suggested" patterns that have been
> layed out. But, maybe we can collect the wisdom of the contirbutors in
order
> to avoid development of heavy or misplaced extensions or apps. I know Ted
> has laid down some stuff for us to view in his "Catalog". But, there have
> been several things I've seen popping up. For example, The debate used to
> be... do i extend the Action class or the Action Servlet... Now, we seem
to
> be extending the crap out of the Request Processor. The danger is that
there
> many ways to implement an idea and it could work in the extended Action
> class or the extended RequestProcessor. But, why should we extend the
> ReqeuestProcessor or the Action class. What extensions are best run
against
> each of the extendable classes within struts. Also, I have seen a
> processPreprocess() method that is being used in the RequestProcessor
class.
> What is the best use for processPreproccess()?
>
> Finally, from what i am seeing of the struts codebase is that it is
starting
> to get really bulky. I thought the goal was to remain lightweight and
> provide hooks for extensions. I am seeing all the nifty extensions being
> developed and put into the base. Isn't there a way we can provide
> configurable extending? Rather than work on making the base include every
> good extension, why not make the base easier to extend and provide a
> standard set of hooks that can be used to access the internals. I think
> maybe I'm all washed up on this. I have been using struts for a year now
and
> I am constantly wondering what the heck is going on. Everyone seems to be
> doing things different and it's getting difficult to build a project that
is
> going to have some longevity.
>
> In summary, I am seeing people develop extensions that conflict and do not
> play nice with other extensions. I see Action classes being extended and I
> see RequestProccessor classes being extended which are making for a mighty
> mess when trying to get them to play together in a single project. It just
> seems that there needs to be a little clarity on extending
practice/purpose
> and we need to get some clarity or development focus on an easier and more
> configurable extending of struts.
>
> Is anyone else thinking what I am?
>
>
> Brandon Goodin
> Phase Web and Multimedia
> P (406) 862-2245
> F (406) 862-0354
> mail@phase.ws
> http://www.phase.ws
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>