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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by S Arvind <ar...@gmail.com> on 2009/04/24 22:41:49 UTC
tomcat shutdown problem
A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora and
Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down when see
the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is still showing
the process as running.
such as
[code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
/usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
-Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
-Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
-verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
-Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
-Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
-classpath :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
-Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
-Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
-Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it is
completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of this
problem? Advance Thanks,
Arvind S
*
"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were to
success when they gave up."
-Thomas Edison*
RE: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com>.
usually ps -ef will show you all active processes with
PID(processID) PPID(parentProcessID) THR(NumThreads) PR(priortity) NAME
More information is available from the brainiacs at University of Illinois
http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~gfrancis/illimath/windows/aszgard_mini/bin/CommandTools/readme1.txt
Martin Gainty
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work - Thomas Edison
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> From: arvindwill@gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 14:07:25 +0530
> Subject: Re: tomcat shutdown problem
> To: users@tomcat.apache.org; p@pidster.com
>
> Thanks pid...
>
> Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
>
> Thanks,
> Arvind S
>
>
> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
> to success when they gave up."
> -Thomas Edison
> *
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>
> > S Arvind wrote:
> > > A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora and
> > > Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down when
> > see
> > > the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is still
> > showing
> > >
> > > the process as running.
> > >
> > > such as
> > >
> > > [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
> > > /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
> > > -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
> > >
> > -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
> > >
> > > -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
> > > -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
> > > -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
> > > -classpath :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
> > >
> > > -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> > > -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> > > -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
> > > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
> > >
> > > So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it is
> > > completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of this
> > > problem? Advance Thanks,
> >
> > If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the server,
> > then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
> >
> > Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon threads
> > running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed out (on
> > this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in this regard.
> >
> > If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make sure
> > that you properly terminate them when the application (and server) shuts
> > down.
> >
> > A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
> >
> >
> > p
> >
> >
> > > Arvind S
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > > "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
> > to
> > >
> > > success when they gave up."
> > > -Thomas Edison*
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ Hotmail®:…more than just e-mail.
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Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by Pid <p...@pidster.com>.
S Arvind wrote:
> Pid thanks very much. We found the thread from the thread dump. Problem we
> did is we didnt shutdown the quartz scheduler. Now as per ur guidelines in
> the context listener we did that. It currently in testing phase. Thanks..
Good news. And now you know 2 things: how to diagnose via Thread dumps,
and it only takes one of 200 devs to forget to stop a Thread...
It's possible that the old way you were stopping TC5.x was just killing
the process - so you weren't seeing the error, perhaps if you were using
JSVC via an init script in /etc/init.d/tomcat5 or something.
p
> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were to
> success when they gave up."
> -Thomas Edison
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>
>> S Arvind wrote:
>>> Pid very thanks for guiding me .. one more help alone... can u please
>> tell
>>> me how to check which thread it is runnin by quartz other then checking
>> code
>>> ... i am centos, jvm 5, tomcat 5 and tomcat 6.. i think i am disturbin u
>>> lot, but ...
>> As Dan said, "kill -QUIT <pid>", and as I said previously, familiarise
>> yourself with jstack, jmap and possibly jconsole, all of which are
>> command line tools available with the Sun JREs.
>>
>> p
>>
>>
>>> -Arvind S
>>>
>>> *
>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
>> to
>>> success when they gave up."
>>> -Thomas Edison*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> S Arvind wrote:
>>>>> Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
>>>>>>> yes it is completely *unchanged*... is anything must be changed for
>>>>> quartz?
>>>> okay, then your best bet is to explore what the JVM is doing after
>>>> shutdown and check which threads are still running.
>>>>
>>>> p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --Arvind S
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
>> were
>>>> to
>>>>> success when they gave up."
>>>>> -Thomas Edison
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Please do not keep using "reply to all". It is annoying and
>>>>>> unnecessary. I will obviously receive a copy of the mail if you just
>>>>>> send a reply to the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did you write your application?
>>>>>>>>> there are team of 200 Engineers wrote that application so i dont
>> know
>>>>>>> where the problem is
>>>>>>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
>>>>>>>>> yeah we have quartz scheduler in our application. But when we run
>> in
>>>>>>> Tomcat 5 we dont have this kind of problem
>>>>>> Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you shutdown, Quartz will log a message describing the number of
>>>>>> running threads, this may help diagnose the problem. The count may be
>>>>>> above 20, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
>>>>>>>>> Might be, i have to ask each team.
>>>>>> Check that they are being properly terminated. Even if the devs
>> promise
>>>>>> they are, double check.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are
>> there
>>>>>>> still multiple java processes running?
>>>>>>>>> YES, this is the only thing assigned to me to correct it.
>>>>>> You should ensure that the old processes are terminated before
>> starting
>>>>>> new ones, as an old one may hang onto one of the ports that Tomcat
>> uses,
>>>>>> thus preventing new instances from starting up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Linux "kill" command can do this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After shutdown has been requested and while the process is still
>>>>>> running, take a thread dump, or use the java tools to examine the
>> state
>>>>>> of the JVM. See if you can spot which Threads are still running.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try jmap, jstack and jconsole (if you're on a local machine).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> to success when they gave up."
>>>>>>> -Thomas Edison
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> S Arvind wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Thanks pid...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
>>>>>>>> Did you write your application?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are
>>>> there
>>>>>>>> still multiple java processes running?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Arvind S
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close
>> they
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>> to success when they gave up."
>>>>>>>>> -Thomas Edison
>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> S Arvind wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the
>> Fedora
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down
>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>> the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is
>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>> showing
>>>>>>>>>>> the process as running.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> such as
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
>>>>>>>>>>> /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
>>>>>>>>>>> -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
>>>>>>>>>>>
>> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
>>>>>>>>>>> -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails
>> -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
>>>>>>>>>>> -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
>>>>>>>>>>> -classpath
>>>> :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
>>>>>>>>>>> -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
>>>>>>>>>>> -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
>>>>>>>>>>> -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason
>> of
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> problem? Advance Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the
>>>> server,
>>>>>>>>>> then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon
>> threads
>>>>>>>>>> running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed
>> out
>>>>>> (on
>>>>>>>>>> this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in
>> this
>>>>>>>> regard.
>>>>>>>>>> If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make
>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>> that you properly terminate them when the application (and server)
>>>>>> shuts
>>>>>>>>>> down.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Arvind S
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close
>>>> they
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> success when they gave up."
>>>>>>>>>>> -Thomas Edison*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by S Arvind <ar...@gmail.com>.
Pid thanks very much. We found the thread from the thread dump. Problem we
did is we didnt shutdown the quartz scheduler. Now as per ur guidelines in
the context listener we did that. It currently in testing phase. Thanks..
"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were to
success when they gave up."
-Thomas Edison
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> S Arvind wrote:
> > Pid very thanks for guiding me .. one more help alone... can u please
> tell
> > me how to check which thread it is runnin by quartz other then checking
> code
> > ... i am centos, jvm 5, tomcat 5 and tomcat 6.. i think i am disturbin u
> > lot, but ...
>
> As Dan said, "kill -QUIT <pid>", and as I said previously, familiarise
> yourself with jstack, jmap and possibly jconsole, all of which are
> command line tools available with the Sun JREs.
>
> p
>
>
> > -Arvind S
> >
> > *
> > "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
> to
> > success when they gave up."
> > -Thomas Edison*
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> >
> >> S Arvind wrote:
> >>> Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
> >>>>> yes it is completely *unchanged*... is anything must be changed for
> >>> quartz?
> >> okay, then your best bet is to explore what the JVM is doing after
> >> shutdown and check which threads are still running.
> >>
> >> p
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> --Arvind S
> >>>
> >>> *
> >>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
> were
> >> to
> >>> success when they gave up."
> >>> -Thomas Edison
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Please do not keep using "reply to all". It is annoying and
> >>>> unnecessary. I will obviously receive a copy of the mail if you just
> >>>> send a reply to the list.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Did you write your application?
> >>>>>>> there are team of 200 Engineers wrote that application so i dont
> know
> >>>>> where the problem is
> >>>>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
> >>>>>>> yeah we have quartz scheduler in our application. But when we run
> in
> >>>>> Tomcat 5 we dont have this kind of problem
> >>>> Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
> >>>>
> >>>> When you shutdown, Quartz will log a message describing the number of
> >>>> running threads, this may help diagnose the problem. The count may be
> >>>> above 20, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
> >>>>>>> Might be, i have to ask each team.
> >>>> Check that they are being properly terminated. Even if the devs
> promise
> >>>> they are, double check.
> >>>>
> >>>>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are
> there
> >>>>> still multiple java processes running?
> >>>>>>> YES, this is the only thing assigned to me to correct it.
> >>>> You should ensure that the old processes are terminated before
> starting
> >>>> new ones, as an old one may hang onto one of the ports that Tomcat
> uses,
> >>>> thus preventing new instances from starting up.
> >>>>
> >>>> The Linux "kill" command can do this.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> However...
> >>>>
> >>>> After shutdown has been requested and while the process is still
> >>>> running, take a thread dump, or use the java tools to examine the
> state
> >>>> of the JVM. See if you can spot which Threads are still running.
> >>>>
> >>>> Try jmap, jstack and jconsole (if you're on a local machine).
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> p
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
> >>>> were
> >>>>> to success when they gave up."
> >>>>> -Thomas Edison
> >>>>> *
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> S Arvind wrote:
> >>>>>>> Thanks pid...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
> >>>>>> Did you write your application?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are
> >> there
> >>>>>> still multiple java processes running?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> p
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> Arvind S
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close
> they
> >>>>>> were
> >>>>>>> to success when they gave up."
> >>>>>>> -Thomas Edison
> >>>>>>> *
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> S Arvind wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the
> Fedora
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down
> >>>> when
> >>>>>>>> see
> >>>>>>>>> the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is
> >>>> still
> >>>>>>>> showing
> >>>>>>>>> the process as running.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> such as
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
> >>>>>>>>> /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
> >>>>>>>>> -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>
> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
> >>>>>>>>> -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails
> -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
> >>>>>>>>> -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
> >>>>>>>>> -classpath
> >> :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
> >>>>>>>>> -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> >>>>>>>>> -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> >>>>>>>>> -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
> >>>>>>>>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it
> >> is
> >>>>>>>>> completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason
> of
> >>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>> problem? Advance Thanks,
> >>>>>>>> If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the
> >> server,
> >>>>>>>> then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon
> threads
> >>>>>>>> running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed
> out
> >>>> (on
> >>>>>>>> this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in
> this
> >>>>>> regard.
> >>>>>>>> If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make
> >> sure
> >>>>>>>> that you properly terminate them when the application (and server)
> >>>> shuts
> >>>>>>>> down.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> p
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Arvind S
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> *
> >>>>>>>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close
> >> they
> >>>>>> were
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> success when they gave up."
> >>>>>>>>> -Thomas Edison*
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
>
Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by Pid <p...@pidster.com>.
S Arvind wrote:
> Pid very thanks for guiding me .. one more help alone... can u please tell
> me how to check which thread it is runnin by quartz other then checking code
> ... i am centos, jvm 5, tomcat 5 and tomcat 6.. i think i am disturbin u
> lot, but ...
As Dan said, "kill -QUIT <pid>", and as I said previously, familiarise
yourself with jstack, jmap and possibly jconsole, all of which are
command line tools available with the Sun JREs.
p
> -Arvind S
>
> *
> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were to
> success when they gave up."
> -Thomas Edison*
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>
>> S Arvind wrote:
>>> Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
>>>>> yes it is completely *unchanged*... is anything must be changed for
>>> quartz?
>> okay, then your best bet is to explore what the JVM is doing after
>> shutdown and check which threads are still running.
>>
>> p
>>
>>
>>
>>> --Arvind S
>>>
>>> *
>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
>> to
>>> success when they gave up."
>>> -Thomas Edison
>>> *
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please do not keep using "reply to all". It is annoying and
>>>> unnecessary. I will obviously receive a copy of the mail if you just
>>>> send a reply to the list.
>>>>
>>>>> Did you write your application?
>>>>>>> there are team of 200 Engineers wrote that application so i dont know
>>>>> where the problem is
>>>>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
>>>>>>> yeah we have quartz scheduler in our application. But when we run in
>>>>> Tomcat 5 we dont have this kind of problem
>>>> Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
>>>>
>>>> When you shutdown, Quartz will log a message describing the number of
>>>> running threads, this may help diagnose the problem. The count may be
>>>> above 20, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
>>>>>>> Might be, i have to ask each team.
>>>> Check that they are being properly terminated. Even if the devs promise
>>>> they are, double check.
>>>>
>>>>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
>>>>> still multiple java processes running?
>>>>>>> YES, this is the only thing assigned to me to correct it.
>>>> You should ensure that the old processes are terminated before starting
>>>> new ones, as an old one may hang onto one of the ports that Tomcat uses,
>>>> thus preventing new instances from starting up.
>>>>
>>>> The Linux "kill" command can do this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> However...
>>>>
>>>> After shutdown has been requested and while the process is still
>>>> running, take a thread dump, or use the java tools to examine the state
>>>> of the JVM. See if you can spot which Threads are still running.
>>>>
>>>> Try jmap, jstack and jconsole (if you're on a local machine).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
>>>> were
>>>>> to success when they gave up."
>>>>> -Thomas Edison
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> S Arvind wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks pid...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
>>>>>> Did you write your application?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are
>> there
>>>>>> still multiple java processes running?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Arvind S
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> to success when they gave up."
>>>>>>> -Thomas Edison
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> S Arvind wrote:
>>>>>>>>> A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down
>>>> when
>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>> the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is
>>>> still
>>>>>>>> showing
>>>>>>>>> the process as running.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> such as
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
>>>>>>>>> /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
>>>>>>>>> -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
>>>>>>>>>
>> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
>>>>>>>>> -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
>>>>>>>>> -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
>>>>>>>>>
>> -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
>>>>>>>>> -classpath
>> :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
>>>>>>>>> -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
>>>>>>>>> -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
>>>>>>>>> -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
>>>>>>>>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it
>> is
>>>>>>>>> completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> problem? Advance Thanks,
>>>>>>>> If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the
>> server,
>>>>>>>> then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon threads
>>>>>>>> running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed out
>>>> (on
>>>>>>>> this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in this
>>>>>> regard.
>>>>>>>> If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make
>> sure
>>>>>>>> that you properly terminate them when the application (and server)
>>>> shuts
>>>>>>>> down.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Arvind S
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close
>> they
>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> success when they gave up."
>>>>>>>>> -Thomas Edison*
>>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by S Arvind <ar...@gmail.com>.
Pid very thanks for guiding me .. one more help alone... can u please tell
me how to check which thread it is runnin by quartz other then checking code
... i am centos, jvm 5, tomcat 5 and tomcat 6.. i think i am disturbin u
lot, but ...
-Arvind S
*
"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were to
success when they gave up."
-Thomas Edison*
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> S Arvind wrote:
> > Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
> >>> yes it is completely *unchanged*... is anything must be changed for
> > quartz?
>
> okay, then your best bet is to explore what the JVM is doing after
> shutdown and check which threads are still running.
>
> p
>
>
>
> > --Arvind S
> >
> > *
> > "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
> to
> > success when they gave up."
> > -Thomas Edison
> > *
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Please do not keep using "reply to all". It is annoying and
> >> unnecessary. I will obviously receive a copy of the mail if you just
> >> send a reply to the list.
> >>
> >>> Did you write your application?
> >>>>> there are team of 200 Engineers wrote that application so i dont know
> >>> where the problem is
> >>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
> >>>>> yeah we have quartz scheduler in our application. But when we run in
> >>> Tomcat 5 we dont have this kind of problem
> >> Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
> >>
> >> When you shutdown, Quartz will log a message describing the number of
> >> running threads, this may help diagnose the problem. The count may be
> >> above 20, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
> >>>>> Might be, i have to ask each team.
> >> Check that they are being properly terminated. Even if the devs promise
> >> they are, double check.
> >>
> >>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
> >>> still multiple java processes running?
> >>>>> YES, this is the only thing assigned to me to correct it.
> >> You should ensure that the old processes are terminated before starting
> >> new ones, as an old one may hang onto one of the ports that Tomcat uses,
> >> thus preventing new instances from starting up.
> >>
> >> The Linux "kill" command can do this.
> >>
> >>
> >> However...
> >>
> >> After shutdown has been requested and while the process is still
> >> running, take a thread dump, or use the java tools to examine the state
> >> of the JVM. See if you can spot which Threads are still running.
> >>
> >> Try jmap, jstack and jconsole (if you're on a local machine).
> >>
> >>
> >> p
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
> >> were
> >>> to success when they gave up."
> >>> -Thomas Edison
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> S Arvind wrote:
> >>>>> Thanks pid...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
> >>>> Did you write your application?
> >>>>
> >>>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
> >>>>
> >>>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
> >>>>
> >>>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are
> there
> >>>> still multiple java processes running?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> p
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Arvind S
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
> >>>> were
> >>>>> to success when they gave up."
> >>>>> -Thomas Edison
> >>>>> *
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> S Arvind wrote:
> >>>>>>> A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora
> >> and
> >>>>>>> Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down
> >> when
> >>>>>> see
> >>>>>>> the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is
> >> still
> >>>>>> showing
> >>>>>>> the process as running.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> such as
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
> >>>>>>> /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
> >>>>>>> -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
> >>>>>>>
> >>
> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
> >>>>>>> -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
> >>>>>>> -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
> >>>>>>>
> -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
> >>>>>>> -classpath
> :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> >>>>>>> -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> >>>>>>> -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
> >>>>>>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it
> is
> >>>>>>> completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of
> >>>> this
> >>>>>>> problem? Advance Thanks,
> >>>>>> If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the
> server,
> >>>>>> then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon threads
> >>>>>> running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed out
> >> (on
> >>>>>> this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in this
> >>>> regard.
> >>>>>> If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make
> sure
> >>>>>> that you properly terminate them when the application (and server)
> >> shuts
> >>>>>> down.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> p
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Arvind S
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *
> >>>>>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close
> they
> >>>> were
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> success when they gave up."
> >>>>>>> -Thomas Edison*
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
>
Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by Pid <p...@pidster.com>.
S Arvind wrote:
> Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
>>> yes it is completely *unchanged*... is anything must be changed for
> quartz?
okay, then your best bet is to explore what the JVM is doing after
shutdown and check which threads are still running.
p
> --Arvind S
>
> *
> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were to
> success when they gave up."
> -Thomas Edison
> *
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>
>> Please do not keep using "reply to all". It is annoying and
>> unnecessary. I will obviously receive a copy of the mail if you just
>> send a reply to the list.
>>
>>> Did you write your application?
>>>>> there are team of 200 Engineers wrote that application so i dont know
>>> where the problem is
>>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
>>>>> yeah we have quartz scheduler in our application. But when we run in
>>> Tomcat 5 we dont have this kind of problem
>> Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
>>
>> When you shutdown, Quartz will log a message describing the number of
>> running threads, this may help diagnose the problem. The count may be
>> above 20, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
>>
>>
>>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
>>>>> Might be, i have to ask each team.
>> Check that they are being properly terminated. Even if the devs promise
>> they are, double check.
>>
>>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
>>> still multiple java processes running?
>>>>> YES, this is the only thing assigned to me to correct it.
>> You should ensure that the old processes are terminated before starting
>> new ones, as an old one may hang onto one of the ports that Tomcat uses,
>> thus preventing new instances from starting up.
>>
>> The Linux "kill" command can do this.
>>
>>
>> However...
>>
>> After shutdown has been requested and while the process is still
>> running, take a thread dump, or use the java tools to examine the state
>> of the JVM. See if you can spot which Threads are still running.
>>
>> Try jmap, jstack and jconsole (if you're on a local machine).
>>
>>
>> p
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
>> were
>>> to success when they gave up."
>>> -Thomas Edison
>>> *
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> S Arvind wrote:
>>>>> Thanks pid...
>>>>>
>>>>> Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
>>>> Did you write your application?
>>>>
>>>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
>>>>
>>>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
>>>>
>>>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
>>>> still multiple java processes running?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Arvind S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
>>>> were
>>>>> to success when they gave up."
>>>>> -Thomas Edison
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> S Arvind wrote:
>>>>>>> A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora
>> and
>>>>>>> Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down
>> when
>>>>>> see
>>>>>>> the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is
>> still
>>>>>> showing
>>>>>>> the process as running.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> such as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
>>>>>>> /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
>>>>>>> -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
>>>>>>>
>> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
>>>>>>> -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
>>>>>>> -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
>>>>>>> -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
>>>>>>> -classpath :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
>>>>>>> -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
>>>>>>> -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
>>>>>>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it is
>>>>>>> completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of
>>>> this
>>>>>>> problem? Advance Thanks,
>>>>>> If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the server,
>>>>>> then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon threads
>>>>>> running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed out
>> (on
>>>>>> this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in this
>>>> regard.
>>>>>> If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make sure
>>>>>> that you properly terminate them when the application (and server)
>> shuts
>>>>>> down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arvind S
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
>>>> were
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> success when they gave up."
>>>>>>> -Thomas Edison*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by S Arvind <ar...@gmail.com>.
Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
>> yes it is completely *unchanged*... is anything must be changed for
quartz?
--Arvind S
*
"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were to
success when they gave up."
-Thomas Edison
*
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>
> Please do not keep using "reply to all". It is annoying and
> unnecessary. I will obviously receive a copy of the mail if you just
> send a reply to the list.
>
> > Did you write your application?
> >>> there are team of 200 Engineers wrote that application so i dont know
> > where the problem is
>
> > Are you using Quartz in your application?
> >>> yeah we have quartz scheduler in our application. But when we run in
> > Tomcat 5 we dont have this kind of problem
>
> Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
>
> When you shutdown, Quartz will log a message describing the number of
> running threads, this may help diagnose the problem. The count may be
> above 20, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
>
>
> > Are you starting new Threads in your app?
> >>> Might be, i have to ask each team.
>
> Check that they are being properly terminated. Even if the devs promise
> they are, double check.
>
> > When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
> > still multiple java processes running?
>
> >>> YES, this is the only thing assigned to me to correct it.
>
> You should ensure that the old processes are terminated before starting
> new ones, as an old one may hang onto one of the ports that Tomcat uses,
> thus preventing new instances from starting up.
>
> The Linux "kill" command can do this.
>
>
> However...
>
> After shutdown has been requested and while the process is still
> running, take a thread dump, or use the java tools to examine the state
> of the JVM. See if you can spot which Threads are still running.
>
> Try jmap, jstack and jconsole (if you're on a local machine).
>
>
> p
>
>
>
>
> > *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
> were
> > to success when they gave up."
> > -Thomas Edison
> > *
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> >
> >> S Arvind wrote:
> >>> Thanks pid...
> >>>
> >>> Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
> >> Did you write your application?
> >>
> >> Are you using Quartz in your application?
> >>
> >> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
> >>
> >> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
> >> still multiple java processes running?
> >>
> >>
> >> p
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Arvind S
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
> >> were
> >>> to success when they gave up."
> >>> -Thomas Edison
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> S Arvind wrote:
> >>>>> A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora
> and
> >>>>> Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down
> when
> >>>> see
> >>>>> the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is
> still
> >>>> showing
> >>>>> the process as running.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> such as
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
> >>>>> /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
> >>>>> -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
> >>>>>
> >>
> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
> >>>>> -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
> >>>>> -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
> >>>>> -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
> >>>>> -classpath :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> >>>>> -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> >>>>> -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
> >>>>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it is
> >>>>> completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of
> >> this
> >>>>> problem? Advance Thanks,
> >>>> If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the server,
> >>>> then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon threads
> >>>> running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed out
> (on
> >>>> this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in this
> >> regard.
> >>>> If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make sure
> >>>> that you properly terminate them when the application (and server)
> shuts
> >>>> down.
> >>>>
> >>>> A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> p
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Arvind S
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *
> >>>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
> >> were
> >>>> to
> >>>>> success when they gave up."
> >>>>> -Thomas Edison*
> >>>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
>
Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by Pid <p...@pidster.com>.
Please do not keep using "reply to all". It is annoying and
unnecessary. I will obviously receive a copy of the mail if you just
send a reply to the list.
> Did you write your application?
>>> there are team of 200 Engineers wrote that application so i dont know
> where the problem is
> Are you using Quartz in your application?
>>> yeah we have quartz scheduler in our application. But when we run in
> Tomcat 5 we dont have this kind of problem
Is the application completely unchanged for deployment on Tomcat 6?
When you shutdown, Quartz will log a message describing the number of
running threads, this may help diagnose the problem. The count may be
above 20, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
>>> Might be, i have to ask each team.
Check that they are being properly terminated. Even if the devs promise
they are, double check.
> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
> still multiple java processes running?
>>> YES, this is the only thing assigned to me to correct it.
You should ensure that the old processes are terminated before starting
new ones, as an old one may hang onto one of the ports that Tomcat uses,
thus preventing new instances from starting up.
The Linux "kill" command can do this.
However...
After shutdown has been requested and while the process is still
running, take a thread dump, or use the java tools to examine the state
of the JVM. See if you can spot which Threads are still running.
Try jmap, jstack and jconsole (if you're on a local machine).
p
> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
> to success when they gave up."
> -Thomas Edison
> *
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>
>> S Arvind wrote:
>>> Thanks pid...
>>>
>>> Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
>> Did you write your application?
>>
>> Are you using Quartz in your application?
>>
>> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
>>
>> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
>> still multiple java processes running?
>>
>>
>> p
>>
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Arvind S
>>>
>>>
>>> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
>> were
>>> to success when they gave up."
>>> -Thomas Edison
>>> *
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> S Arvind wrote:
>>>>> A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora and
>>>>> Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down when
>>>> see
>>>>> the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is still
>>>> showing
>>>>> the process as running.
>>>>>
>>>>> such as
>>>>>
>>>>> [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
>>>>> /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
>>>>> -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
>>>>>
>> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
>>>>> -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
>>>>> -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
>>>>> -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
>>>>> -classpath :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
>>>>>
>>>>> -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
>>>>> -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
>>>>> -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
>>>>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
>>>>>
>>>>> So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it is
>>>>> completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of
>> this
>>>>> problem? Advance Thanks,
>>>> If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the server,
>>>> then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
>>>>
>>>> Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon threads
>>>> running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed out (on
>>>> this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in this
>> regard.
>>>> If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make sure
>>>> that you properly terminate them when the application (and server) shuts
>>>> down.
>>>>
>>>> A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Arvind S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
>> were
>>>> to
>>>>> success when they gave up."
>>>>> -Thomas Edison*
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by Dan Armbrust <da...@gmail.com>.
> Did you write your application?
>>> there are team of 200 Engineers wrote that application so i dont know
> where the problem is
One (or more) of them made a mistake, and has left a non-daemon thread
running.
You need to find out what thread is running. One way to do this is to
get a thread dump.
First, ask Tomcat to stop normally. When it doesn't stop, generate a
thread dump.
kill -QUIT <java-pid>
will tell the JVM to print a thread dump to the console where the JVM
was started - it will probably go into your tomcat/logs/catalina.out
log file unless you have redirected it somewhere else in your
configuration.
Look at what non-daemon threads are running. Any non-daemon threads
still running will need to be fixed by one of your 200 Engineers :)
Dan
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Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by S Arvind <ar...@gmail.com>.
Did you write your application?
>> there are team of 200 Engineers wrote that application so i dont know
where the problem is
Are you using Quartz in your application?
>> yeah we have quartz scheduler in our application. But when we run in
Tomcat 5 we dont have this kind of problem
Are you starting new Threads in your app?
>>Might be, i have to ask each team.
When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
still multiple java processes running?
>>YES, this is the only thing assigned to me to correct it.
*"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
to success when they gave up."
-Thomas Edison
*
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> S Arvind wrote:
> > Thanks pid...
> >
> > Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
>
> Did you write your application?
>
> Are you using Quartz in your application?
>
> Are you starting new Threads in your app?
>
> When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
> still multiple java processes running?
>
>
> p
>
>
> > Thanks,
> > Arvind S
> >
> >
> > *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
> were
> > to success when they gave up."
> > -Thomas Edison
> > *
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> >
> >> S Arvind wrote:
> >>> A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora and
> >>> Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down when
> >> see
> >>> the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is still
> >> showing
> >>> the process as running.
> >>>
> >>> such as
> >>>
> >>> [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
> >>> /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
> >>> -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
> >>>
> >>
> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
> >>> -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
> >>> -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
> >>> -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
> >>> -classpath :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
> >>>
> >>> -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> >>> -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> >>> -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
> >>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
> >>>
> >>> So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it is
> >>> completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of
> this
> >>> problem? Advance Thanks,
> >> If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the server,
> >> then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
> >>
> >> Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon threads
> >> running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed out (on
> >> this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in this
> regard.
> >>
> >> If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make sure
> >> that you properly terminate them when the application (and server) shuts
> >> down.
> >>
> >> A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
> >>
> >>
> >> p
> >>
> >>
> >>> Arvind S
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *
> >>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they
> were
> >> to
> >>> success when they gave up."
> >>> -Thomas Edison*
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
>
Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by Pid <p...@pidster.com>.
S Arvind wrote:
> Thanks pid...
>
> Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
Did you write your application?
Are you using Quartz in your application?
Are you starting new Threads in your app?
When you have started and stopped the application a few times are there
still multiple java processes running?
p
> Thanks,
> Arvind S
>
>
> *"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
> to success when they gave up."
> -Thomas Edison
> *
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
>
>> S Arvind wrote:
>>> A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora and
>>> Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down when
>> see
>>> the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is still
>> showing
>>> the process as running.
>>>
>>> such as
>>>
>>> [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
>>> /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
>>> -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
>>>
>> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
>>> -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
>>> -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
>>> -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
>>> -classpath :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
>>>
>>> -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
>>> -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
>>> -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
>>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
>>>
>>> So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it is
>>> completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of this
>>> problem? Advance Thanks,
>> If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the server,
>> then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
>>
>> Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon threads
>> running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed out (on
>> this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in this regard.
>>
>> If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make sure
>> that you properly terminate them when the application (and server) shuts
>> down.
>>
>> A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
>>
>>
>> p
>>
>>
>>> Arvind S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
>> to
>>> success when they gave up."
>>> -Thomas Edison*
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by S Arvind <ar...@gmail.com>.
Thanks pid...
Can u able to give me more idea to solve it if possible..
Thanks,
Arvind S
*"Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
to success when they gave up."
-Thomas Edison
*
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Pid <p...@pidster.com> wrote:
> S Arvind wrote:
> > A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora and
> > Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down when
> see
> > the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is still
> showing
> >
> > the process as running.
> >
> > such as
> >
> > [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
> > /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
> > -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
> >
> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
> >
> > -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
> > -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
> > -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
> > -classpath :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
> >
> > -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> > -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> > -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
> > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
> >
> > So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it is
> > completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of this
> > problem? Advance Thanks,
>
> If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the server,
> then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
>
> Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon threads
> running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed out (on
> this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in this regard.
>
> If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make sure
> that you properly terminate them when the application (and server) shuts
> down.
>
> A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
>
>
> p
>
>
> > Arvind S
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> > "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were
> to
> >
> > success when they gave up."
> > -Thomas Edison*
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
>
Re: tomcat shutdown problem
Posted by Pid <p...@pidster.com>.
S Arvind wrote:
> A wierd problem occur while shutdowning the tomcat 6 in the Fedora and
> Centos. Usually i use shell file to shutdown. After shutting down when see
> the postgre preocess by [code]*ps -ef | grep java*[/code] it is still showing
>
> the process as running.
>
> such as
>
> [code] tomcat 14694 1 72 Apr23 ? 23:44:25
> /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_13/jre/bin/java
> -Djava.util.logging.manager=org.apache.juli.ClassLoaderLogManager
> -Djava.util.logging.config.file=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/conf/logging.properties
>
> -verbose:gc -Xloggc:gc.log -XX:+PrintGCDetails -XX:MaxPermSize=512M
> -Xms1024M -Xmx1024M -Djava.awt.headless=true
> -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/endorsed
> -classpath :/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/bin/bootstrap.jar
>
> -Dcatalina.base=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> -Dcatalina.home=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18
> -Djava.io.tmpdir=/usr/share/tomcat6/apache-tomcat-6.0.18/temp
> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap start [/code]
>
> So if i keep repeating the start and shutdown after few cycles it is
> completely refusing to start. What might be the source or reason of this
> problem? Advance Thanks,
If you are leaving an active process behind when you stop the server,
then doing it lots of times over isn't going to be healthy.
Usually this is because your application has left non-daemon threads
running that haven't been shutdown. It was was recently pointed out (on
this list) that the Quartz job scheduler is often a culprit in this regard.
If you have are starting threads yourself, then you need to make sure
that you properly terminate them when the application (and server) shuts
down.
A ServletContextListener is useful in this regard.
p
> Arvind S
>
>
>
> *
> "Many of lifes failure are people who did not realize how close they were to
>
> success when they gave up."
> -Thomas Edison*
>
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