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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Daniel Fagerstrom <da...@nada.kth.se> on 2006/02/27 22:51:40 UTC

FYI: OSGi JSR

Apache and some other well known organizations have started an JSR for 
dynamic component framework in Java SE based on OSGi.

http://www.osgi.org/blog/2006/02/jsr-291-dynamic-component-support-for.html
http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=291

/Daniel

Re: FYI: OSGi JSR

Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Tuesday 28 February 2006 21:20, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

> These two JSRs are heading on a massive collision course.

Not if the people involved don't want that to happen. The most important 
difference (as I see it) between the two is that JSR-291 is a fast track 
add-on for those who want it "now" (debatable how long that is, as you 
pointed out). And for people like me, who are not on an upgrade train to JDK5 
yet(!), which has been out ~2years already, and unlikely to run JDK7 for the 
next 4-5 years, I think JSR-291 is providing a reasonable middle-ground.

Should it be a JSR?? Why not? Most JSRs are formalizations of stuff that 
already exist... 

And IIRC, Stefano, you are in the camp "rather something that works today, 
than the perfect system in a few years" ;o)
If JSR-277 will come up with something that surpasses every bit and corner of 
the JSR-291, then GREAT!

Let me remind you of a "good enough" collection API way back in time, I think 
it was simply called JCL. It was available in 1997 (perhaps earlier) and 
solved me a great deal of work back then. When the official Collection API 
came out, its purpose was ending... No shame in that. :o)


Cheers
Niclas

Re: FYI: OSGi JSR

Posted by Daniel Fagerstrom <da...@nada.kth.se>.
I think there are lots of politics involved. Peter Kriens, OSGi spec 
author, evangelist and old timer was rejected to become a member of 
JSR277, and is upset about it: 
http://www.aqute.biz/2006/02/osgi-and-jsr-277-bad-vibes.html, (he have 
written a number of times about it on his blog).

Interesting enough Richard Hall, Felix lead and OSGi member, is part of 
both JSRs.

All the issues with OSGi listed in the citation from JSR 277 are solved 
in OSGi R4.

IBM seem to make a huge investment in OSGi while Sun doesn't, so I 
wouldn't be surprised if this is part of there fighting as well.

Anyway, standardized Java modularization is needed now, so waiting to 
Java 7, seem less attractive.

/Daniel

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:
>> Apache and some other well known organizations have started an JSR 
>> for dynamic component framework in Java SE based on OSGi.
>>
>> http://www.osgi.org/blog/2006/02/jsr-291-dynamic-component-support-for.html 
>>
>> http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=291
>
> 4 months to get a JSR out of the door? whatever.
>
>
> This seems a rushed up battle against JSR 277, which states:
>
> The current version of the Open Services Gateway Initiative (OSGi) 
> specification defines a framework that enables the deployment of 
> service-oriented applications (called bundles). However, the framework 
> only supports package dependency based on the minimum version of a 
> specification, and there is no support for exact version or version 
> range. The framework also supports package dependency based on an 
> implementation, but there is no support for versioning. Moreover, the 
> framework must choose one bundle that will be the provider of the 
> exported package for all bundles which have dependencies on that 
> package, so it is impossible to support more than one version of 
> shared package at runtime. Besides, the selection of exported package 
> provider is anonymous, and there is no way to influence the selection. 
> Because the versioning semantics in the OSGi framework is simplistic, 
> it is not a sufficient solution to address the JAR referencing problem.
>
>
>
> While JSR 291 states:
>
> No current JSR (either complete or in process) defines a dynamic 
> component and lifecycle solution to run on top of the existing family 
> of Java SE platforms. However, JSR 232 does include this capability to 
> run on top of Java ME (CDC based platforms) along with a comprehensive 
> set of mobility services.
>
> JSR 277 has been filed to examine changes to the static module 
> definition to be used within the Java SE platform for Java 7 (Dolphin) 
> and beyond. JSR 277 is targeted for specification delivery in 2H/2007 
> with RI/TCK delivery as an integral part of Dolphin in 2008.
>
> This JSR aims to address the current needs for dynamic components 
> based on existing Java SE platforms. When Dolphin becomes available, 
> the specification lead of this JSR will either perform a maintenance 
> release of this JSR or raise a follow on JSR to add Dolphin to the 
> list of compatible supported platforms and to exploit Dolphin 
> technology for static modules, as appropriate.
>
>
>
>
>
> These two JSRs are heading on a massive collision course.
>



Re: FYI: OSGi JSR

Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@mit.edu>.
Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:
> Apache and some other well known organizations have started an JSR for 
> dynamic component framework in Java SE based on OSGi.
> 
> http://www.osgi.org/blog/2006/02/jsr-291-dynamic-component-support-for.html
> http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=291

4 months to get a JSR out of the door? whatever.


This seems a rushed up battle against JSR 277, which states:

The current version of the Open Services Gateway Initiative (OSGi) 
specification defines a framework that enables the deployment of 
service-oriented applications (called bundles). However, the framework 
only supports package dependency based on the minimum version of a 
specification, and there is no support for exact version or version 
range. The framework also supports package dependency based on an 
implementation, but there is no support for versioning. Moreover, the 
framework must choose one bundle that will be the provider of the 
exported package for all bundles which have dependencies on that 
package, so it is impossible to support more than one version of shared 
package at runtime. Besides, the selection of exported package provider 
is anonymous, and there is no way to influence the selection. Because 
the versioning semantics in the OSGi framework is simplistic, it is not 
a sufficient solution to address the JAR referencing problem.



While JSR 291 states:

No current JSR (either complete or in process) defines a dynamic 
component and lifecycle solution to run on top of the existing family of 
Java SE platforms. However, JSR 232 does include this capability to run 
on top of Java ME (CDC based platforms) along with a comprehensive set 
of mobility services.

JSR 277 has been filed to examine changes to the static module 
definition to be used within the Java SE platform for Java 7 (Dolphin) 
and beyond. JSR 277 is targeted for specification delivery in 2H/2007 
with RI/TCK delivery as an integral part of Dolphin in 2008.

This JSR aims to address the current needs for dynamic components based 
on existing Java SE platforms. When Dolphin becomes available, the 
specification lead of this JSR will either perform a maintenance release 
of this JSR or raise a follow on JSR to add Dolphin to the list of 
compatible supported platforms and to exploit Dolphin technology for 
static modules, as appropriate.





These two JSRs are heading on a massive collision course.

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi
Research Scientist                 Digital Libraries Research Group
Massachusetts Institute of Technology            location: E25-131C
77 Massachusetts Ave                   telephone: +1 (617) 253-1096
Cambridge, MA  02139-4307              email: stefanom at mit . edu
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