Re: Project Name - digression

[Jules Gosnell <ju...@coredevelopers.net>]

Danny Angus wrote:

>
>
>
>If you don't change it now think how hard it will be in future as the brand
>builds to ever consider changing it again.
>
>I think it is unncessary, and undesirable, to misappropriate Native
>American symbolism for this purpose. How would you feel if an iconic symbol
>from your culture was used in this way?
>
>I'lI bet there are hundreds of really good and uncontentious names we could
>use.
>
All these arguments have already been trotted out.

I would rather not see this thread break down into yet another such 
discussion.

If you start making points against, I will feel behoven to respond to 
keep the playing pitch level, and we will be back to square one very 
quickly.

If people feel the need to discuss these issues all over again, perhaps 
we should spawn another thread - or better perhaps a Wiki page (If one 
does not already exist).

Jules


>
>[ ] Yes, Keep the name Geronimo
>[X] No, Change the name
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>  
>


-- 
/*************************************
 * Jules Gosnell
 * Partner
 * Core Developers Network (Europe)
 * http://www.coredevelopers.net
 *************************************/

Re: Project Name - digression

[Jules Gosnell <ju...@coredevelopers.net>]

Aaron Bannert wrote:

>On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:52:35PM +0000, Jules Gosnell wrote:
>  
>
>>If you read/quoted the full context of my posting :
>>
>>"If people feel the need to discuss these issues all over again, perhaps 
>>we should spawn another thread - or better perhaps a Wiki page (If one 
>>does not already exist). "
>>
>>you would, perhaps, notice that I had no intention of censoring anyone. 
>>In fact I am quite open to further discussion on the subject. The VOTE 
>>thread is a VOTE thread and will become quite indecipherable and useless 
>>if it contains more noise than signal.
>>
>>if we want to discuss all this stuff again it should be somewhere other 
>>than the VOTE thread - either this digression thread or the wiki.
>>    
>>
>
>-1 to having discussions on a Wiki.
>
If you don't like Wikis - fine - neither do I.

>
>When you require someone to start a new thread *after* a vote has
>been called, you are effectively preventing their opinions from
>entering into the vote discussion.
>
I disagree.

This digression thread is a subthread of the vote thread.
Anyone interested in reading the vote thread can read/write this thread.
The vote is not a discussion, it's a vote. The more discussion you have 
on the vote thread, the more difficult you make it for people to keep 
track of who has voted and in which way.

> If that was not your intention,
>then why do you care if they add their signal to the noise?
>
???

The signal is the vote - which is what everyone wants to see on the vote 
thread.
The discussion is noise which should be somewhere else - this subthread 
for example.

>
>In other words, if people have opinions that might factor into the
>vote that I cast, then I want to hear them before I cast my vote.
>  
>
So read/write them in a non-voting [sub]thread, the mailing list 
archive, the wiki, IRC, ...

Can we drop this? It's simply subverting the digression thread where we 
could be having an interesting conversation on-topic. Now we are just 
having a pointless debate about where to hold this interesting 
discussion.....

Jules

>-aaron
>


-- 
/*************************************
 * Jules Gosnell
 * Partner
 * Core Developers Network (Europe)
 * http://www.coredevelopers.net
 *************************************/

Re: Project Name - digression

[Aaron Bannert <aa...@clove.org>]

On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 01:35:44PM -0500, Alvin Thompson wrote:
> does anyone else think that it's ironic that we use such a low-tech way
> to vote when we're developing an application server? wouldn't it be
> trivial to implement a web service that would allow people to vote and
> post comments about the vote, so that subsequent voters can
> read/contribute to the comments before voting if they wish?

Unfortunately, web-based discussion groups don't have fancy
full-featured clients in the way that email has for many years.
Also, web-based discussions are difficult to use in offline mode
(like when the power goes out in your city for 20 hours *ahem*).

-aaron

Re: Project Name - digression

[Alvin Thompson <al...@thompsonlogic.com>]

<more-digression>

does anyone else think that it's ironic that we use such a low-tech way
to vote when we're developing an application server? wouldn't it be
trivial to implement a web service that would allow people to vote and
post comments about the vote, so that subsequent voters can
read/contribute to the comments before voting if they wish?

the complaints that 'this is a vote thread, and the s/n ratio must be
kept high' or 'spinning off a new thread during a vote effectively
prevents the comments from being heard' both show that a better voting
system is needed.

since we're developers here the UI wouldn't have to be pretty, and i
imagine that someone somewhere has already implemented an open-source
version...

</more-digression>


On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 16:57, Aaron Bannert wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:52:35PM +0000, Jules Gosnell wrote:
> > If you read/quoted the full context of my posting :
> > 
> > "If people feel the need to discuss these issues all over again, perhaps 
> > we should spawn another thread - or better perhaps a Wiki page (If one 
> > does not already exist). "
> > 
> > you would, perhaps, notice that I had no intention of censoring anyone. 
> > In fact I am quite open to further discussion on the subject. The VOTE 
> > thread is a VOTE thread and will become quite indecipherable and useless 
> > if it contains more noise than signal.
> > 
> > if we want to discuss all this stuff again it should be somewhere other 
> > than the VOTE thread - either this digression thread or the wiki.
> 
> -1 to having discussions on a Wiki.
> 
> When you require someone to start a new thread *after* a vote has
> been called, you are effectively preventing their opinions from
> entering into the vote discussion. If that was not your intention,
> then why do you care if they add their signal to the noise?
> 
> In other words, if people have opinions that might factor into the
> vote that I cast, then I want to hear them before I cast my vote.
> 
> -aaron
-- 
Alvin Thompson

Navy: 34
Army: 6

Re: Project Name - digression

[Aaron Bannert <aa...@clove.org>]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 08:52:35PM +0000, Jules Gosnell wrote:
> If you read/quoted the full context of my posting :
> 
> "If people feel the need to discuss these issues all over again, perhaps 
> we should spawn another thread - or better perhaps a Wiki page (If one 
> does not already exist). "
> 
> you would, perhaps, notice that I had no intention of censoring anyone. 
> In fact I am quite open to further discussion on the subject. The VOTE 
> thread is a VOTE thread and will become quite indecipherable and useless 
> if it contains more noise than signal.
> 
> if we want to discuss all this stuff again it should be somewhere other 
> than the VOTE thread - either this digression thread or the wiki.

-1 to having discussions on a Wiki.

When you require someone to start a new thread *after* a vote has
been called, you are effectively preventing their opinions from
entering into the vote discussion. If that was not your intention,
then why do you care if they add their signal to the noise?

In other words, if people have opinions that might factor into the
vote that I cast, then I want to hear them before I cast my vote.

-aaron

Re: Project Name - digression

[Jules Gosnell <ju...@coredevelopers.net>]

Aaron Bannert wrote:

>On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 02:03:35PM +0000, Jules Gosnell wrote:
>  
>
>>All these arguments have already been trotted out.
>>
>>I would rather not see this thread break down into yet another such 
>>discussion.
>>
>>If you start making points against, I will feel behoven to respond to 
>>keep the playing pitch level, and we will be back to square one very 
>>quickly.
>>    
>>
>
>Please do not censor people on this mailing list. There is never a
>better time then now (during this vote) to have this discussion.
>
>-aaron
>  
>
Aaron,

If you read/quoted the full context of my posting :

"If people feel the need to discuss these issues all over again, perhaps 
we should spawn another thread - or better perhaps a Wiki page (If one 
does not already exist). "

you would, perhaps, notice that I had no intention of censoring anyone. 
In fact I am quite open to further discussion on the subject. The VOTE 
thread is a VOTE thread and will become quite indecipherable and useless 
if it contains more noise than signal.

if we want to discuss all this stuff again it should be somewhere other 
than the VOTE thread - either this digression thread or the wiki.

your turn,


Jules


-- 
/*************************************
 * Jules Gosnell
 * Partner
 * Core Developers Network (Europe)
 * http://www.coredevelopers.net
 *************************************/

Re: Project Name - digression

[Aaron Bannert <aa...@clove.org>]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 02:03:35PM +0000, Jules Gosnell wrote:
> All these arguments have already been trotted out.
> 
> I would rather not see this thread break down into yet another such 
> discussion.
> 
> If you start making points against, I will feel behoven to respond to 
> keep the playing pitch level, and we will be back to square one very 
> quickly.

Please do not censor people on this mailing list. There is never a
better time then now (during this vote) to have this discussion.

-aaron

Re: Project Name - digression

[Eric LE GOFF <er...@gicm.fr>]

Jules Gosnell wrote:

> Danny Angus wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> If you don't change it now think how hard it will be in future as the 
>> brand
>> builds to ever consider changing it again.
>>
>> I think it is unncessary, and undesirable, to misappropriate Native
>> American symbolism for this purpose. How would you feel if an iconic 
>> symbol
>> from your culture was used in this way?
>>
>> I'lI bet there are hundreds of really good and uncontentious names we 
>> could
>> use.
>>
> All these arguments have already been trotted out.
>
> I would rather not see this thread break down into yet another such 
> discussion.
>
> If you start making points against, I will feel behoven to respond to 
> keep the playing pitch level, and we will be back to square one very 
> quickly.
>
> If people feel the need to discuss these issues all over again, 
> perhaps we should spawn another thread - or better perhaps a Wiki page 
> (If one does not already exist).

Agreed.
This Wiki page is already there  : 
http://wiki.apache.org/geronimo/WhyApacheGeronimo

>
> Jules
>
>
>>
>> [ ] Yes, Keep the name Geronimo
>> [X] No, Change the name
>>
>>
>>
>> *************************************************************************** 
>>
>> The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the 
>> addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or 
>> responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) 
>> please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message 
>> from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose 
>> its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are 
>> capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not 
>> accept any  responsibility for changes made to this message after it 
>> was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice 
>> or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written 
>> confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the 
>> sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is 
>> your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views 
>> expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect 
>> the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited.
>>
>> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept 
>> for the presence of computer viruses.
>>
>> ************************************************************************** 
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>
>

--
Eric