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Posted to mod_python-dev@quetz.apache.org by Graham Dumpleton <gr...@dscpl.com.au> on 2006/10/12 13:49:15 UTC
Re: The mod_python wiki has materialized!
Anyone had any thoughts on how we are going to use the wiki?
From prior comments it looks like we can't use it for the mod_python
documentation if we intend to then ship a snapshot of the
documentation with a release. I am not sure we are precluded
from still using it for the documentation, it just means that we could
not also include it in the release.
To my mind this is possibly okay, as once the documentation was
shifted to the wiki, wasn't thinking that a snapshot would be included
with the release anyway.
It is just a pity that the ASF doesn't use Confluence (the companion
wiki product for JIRA), as the fine grained security mechanisms in
that could have been used to protect the core documentation and
prevent modification by people who shouldn't. I know that MoinMoin
has fine grained access permissions as well, but from my experience
it is a bit harder to configure as it requires changes to a file based
configuration file to setup the default policy. Requiring this means
intervention of the ASF infrastructure people and they are possibly
too busy as it is. How individual page access and groups are setup
with MoinMoin is also a fiddly process. At lease with Confluence such
things are all controllable through the web interface and somewhat
easier to manage. That MoinMoin is fiddly to setup is possibly why
they recommend a separate wiki space for the protected documentation
as then the default policy can be just to let the selected users edit
the pages and one doesn't have to worry about manipulating
access on individual pages.
Graham
On 13/09/2006, at 9:31 AM, Max Bowsher wrote:
> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>>
>> On 13/09/2006, at 8:45 AM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>>
>>> Woot Woot Woot! We have our wiki!
>>>
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/mod_python/
>>>
>>> Now comes the hard part... what the heck are we going to do with
>>> it? :)
>>
>> Ahhh, more work. :-(
>>
>> Obviously the FAQ stuff can go over there, but I would really like to
>> see the
>> main LaTeX documentation converted and hosted there so it can be
>> updated
>> more easily. Might have to ask Grisha's opinion on that, he might
>> want
>> to see
>> something be able to still be downloadable with the source code
>> itself. In
>> practice though, how many actually use the LaTeX source to
>> generate their
>> own documentation, I would guess most go to the web site anyway.
>> We would
>> have to be careful though to make sure we annotate features to
>> show over
>> time at which version they were introduced, since we will not have
>> parallel
>> snapshots of documentation for each major release.
>
> Regarding hosting the official documentation within a wiki...
>
> A topic that has recently come up on infra@ is that anything that is
> editable by people without ASF CLAs on file is ineligible to be
> shipped
> as part of an official Apache release.
>
> Just thought I ought to call attention to that point, if wiki-fication
> of the main docs is being considered.
>
> Other projects have approached this by having two separate wikis, the
> documentation one being write-access-restricted to CLA-ed people.
>
> Max.
>
Re: The mod_python wiki has materialized!
Posted by solo turn <so...@gmail.com>.
why would you use jira/confluence, if there is edgewall trac and
moinmoin? these two would benefit from mod_python, while
jira/confluence has nothing to do with it.
-solo
On 10/12/06, Graham Dumpleton <gr...@dscpl.com.au> wrote:
> Its late here now, so time for me to sleep. You being on the PMC might
> also carry more weight in getting the Confluence wiki space setup. If
> we follow suggested convention, should be called MODPYTHON to
> match JIRA tag. You being on the PMC means you can probably be
> given admin rights over the wiki space. I have created a user called
> "grahamd", so perhaps you can make the request and ask for me to
> be added, or get the rights so you can give me the write privileges.
> They
> should have it record that I have signed the required agreement.
>
> Might be about time for me to finally accept the PMC invite. ;-)
>
> This is actually good timing finding this, as have been trying to get
> work interested in getting JIRA/Confluence for our own stuff, so if can
> show them how it works will be good.
>
> Till tomorrow ...
>
> Graham
>
> On 12/10/2006, at 11:04 PM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > Sounds like a good plan.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> >> Doing some digging into the Confluence wiki site, it seems we may be
> >> better off getting a wiki space created in there for mod_python which
> >> would be specifically for developing the official documentation. This
> >> could have restricted write access for core developers. That wiki
> >> space
> >> can then be exported as HTML/PDF to get a snapshot for inclusion in
> >> the release. Comments could be allowed for general Confluence users,
> >> but not actual page edits. The comments can be left out of any
> >> export.
> >> The comments would be as triggers for us to make amendments
> >> to the documentation.
> >> The MoinMoin site could be kept for general community contributions.
> >> Ie., the FAQ, examples of handlers, links to other resources etc etc.
> >> Graham
> >> On 12/10/2006, at 10:29 PM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
> >>> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> >>>> Anyone had any thoughts on how we are going to use the wiki?
> >>>
> >>> Sections 4, 5 and 6 (API, Apache Configuration Directives and
> >>> Standard Handlers) of the current docs stay with in the source
> >>> distribution. Everything else would be a candidate for the wiki.
> >>> (We should likely decide which should go in the wiki vs the
> >>> modpython.org website vs the httpd.apache.org/modules/mod_python
> >>> website).
> >>>
> >>> In no particular order:
> >>>
> >>> News
> >>> Roadmap
> >>> Installation help for various OS platforms
> >>> FAQ
> >>> Tutorials
> >>> Examples
> >>> Security considerations
> >>> Troubleshooting applications
> >>> Mailing list information
> >>> Developer information
> >>> Bug reporting information
> >>>
> >>> Jim
> >>>
> >>>> From prior comments it looks like we can't use it for the
> >>>> mod_python
> >>>> documentation if we intend to then ship a snapshot of the
> >>>> documentation with a release. I am not sure we are precluded
> >>>> from still using it for the documentation, it just means that we
> >>>> could
> >>>> not also include it in the release.
> >>>> To my mind this is possibly okay, as once the documentation was
> >>>> shifted to the wiki, wasn't thinking that a snapshot would be
> >>>> included
> >>>> with the release anyway.
> >>>> It is just a pity that the ASF doesn't use Confluence (the
> >>>> companion
> >>>> wiki product for JIRA), as the fine grained security mechanisms in
> >>>> that could have been used to protect the core documentation and
> >>>> prevent modification by people who shouldn't. I know that MoinMoin
> >>>> has fine grained access permissions as well, but from my experience
> >>>> it is a bit harder to configure as it requires changes to a file
> >>>> based
> >>>> configuration file to setup the default policy. Requiring this
> >>>> means
> >>>> intervention of the ASF infrastructure people and they are possibly
> >>>> too busy as it is. How individual page access and groups are setup
> >>>> with MoinMoin is also a fiddly process. At lease with Confluence
> >>>> such
> >>>> things are all controllable through the web interface and somewhat
> >>>> easier to manage. That MoinMoin is fiddly to setup is possibly why
> >>>> they recommend a separate wiki space for the protected
> >>>> documentation
> >>>> as then the default policy can be just to let the selected users
> >>>> edit
> >>>> the pages and one doesn't have to worry about manipulating
> >>>> access on individual pages.
> >>>> Graham
> >>>> On 13/09/2006, at 9:31 AM, Max Bowsher wrote:
> >>>>> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 13/09/2006, at 8:45 AM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Woot Woot Woot! We have our wiki!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/mod_python/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now comes the hard part... what the heck are we going to do
> >>>>>>> with it? :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ahhh, more work. :-(
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Obviously the FAQ stuff can go over there, but I would really
> >>>>>> like to
> >>>>>> see the
> >>>>>> main LaTeX documentation converted and hosted there so it can
> >>>>>> be updated
> >>>>>> more easily. Might have to ask Grisha's opinion on that, he
> >>>>>> might want
> >>>>>> to see
> >>>>>> something be able to still be downloadable with the source
> >>>>>> code itself. In
> >>>>>> practice though, how many actually use the LaTeX source to
> >>>>>> generate their
> >>>>>> own documentation, I would guess most go to the web site
> >>>>>> anyway. We would
> >>>>>> have to be careful though to make sure we annotate features to
> >>>>>> show over
> >>>>>> time at which version they were introduced, since we will not
> >>>>>> have parallel
> >>>>>> snapshots of documentation for each major release.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regarding hosting the official documentation within a wiki...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A topic that has recently come up on infra@ is that anything
> >>>>> that is
> >>>>> editable by people without ASF CLAs on file is ineligible to be
> >>>>> shipped
> >>>>> as part of an official Apache release.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just thought I ought to call attention to that point, if wiki-
> >>>>> fication
> >>>>> of the main docs is being considered.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Other projects have approached this by having two separate
> >>>>> wikis, the
> >>>>> documentation one being write-access-restricted to CLA-ed people.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Max.
> >>>>>
>
>
Re: The mod_python wiki has materialized!
Posted by Graham Dumpleton <gr...@dscpl.com.au>.
Its late here now, so time for me to sleep. You being on the PMC might
also carry more weight in getting the Confluence wiki space setup. If
we follow suggested convention, should be called MODPYTHON to
match JIRA tag. You being on the PMC means you can probably be
given admin rights over the wiki space. I have created a user called
"grahamd", so perhaps you can make the request and ask for me to
be added, or get the rights so you can give me the write privileges.
They
should have it record that I have signed the required agreement.
Might be about time for me to finally accept the PMC invite. ;-)
This is actually good timing finding this, as have been trying to get
work interested in getting JIRA/Confluence for our own stuff, so if can
show them how it works will be good.
Till tomorrow ...
Graham
On 12/10/2006, at 11:04 PM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
> +1
>
> Sounds like a good plan.
>
> Jim
>
> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>> Doing some digging into the Confluence wiki site, it seems we may be
>> better off getting a wiki space created in there for mod_python which
>> would be specifically for developing the official documentation. This
>> could have restricted write access for core developers. That wiki
>> space
>> can then be exported as HTML/PDF to get a snapshot for inclusion in
>> the release. Comments could be allowed for general Confluence users,
>> but not actual page edits. The comments can be left out of any
>> export.
>> The comments would be as triggers for us to make amendments
>> to the documentation.
>> The MoinMoin site could be kept for general community contributions.
>> Ie., the FAQ, examples of handlers, links to other resources etc etc.
>> Graham
>> On 12/10/2006, at 10:29 PM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>>> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>>>> Anyone had any thoughts on how we are going to use the wiki?
>>>
>>> Sections 4, 5 and 6 (API, Apache Configuration Directives and
>>> Standard Handlers) of the current docs stay with in the source
>>> distribution. Everything else would be a candidate for the wiki.
>>> (We should likely decide which should go in the wiki vs the
>>> modpython.org website vs the httpd.apache.org/modules/mod_python
>>> website).
>>>
>>> In no particular order:
>>>
>>> News
>>> Roadmap
>>> Installation help for various OS platforms
>>> FAQ
>>> Tutorials
>>> Examples
>>> Security considerations
>>> Troubleshooting applications
>>> Mailing list information
>>> Developer information
>>> Bug reporting information
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>> From prior comments it looks like we can't use it for the
>>>> mod_python
>>>> documentation if we intend to then ship a snapshot of the
>>>> documentation with a release. I am not sure we are precluded
>>>> from still using it for the documentation, it just means that we
>>>> could
>>>> not also include it in the release.
>>>> To my mind this is possibly okay, as once the documentation was
>>>> shifted to the wiki, wasn't thinking that a snapshot would be
>>>> included
>>>> with the release anyway.
>>>> It is just a pity that the ASF doesn't use Confluence (the
>>>> companion
>>>> wiki product for JIRA), as the fine grained security mechanisms in
>>>> that could have been used to protect the core documentation and
>>>> prevent modification by people who shouldn't. I know that MoinMoin
>>>> has fine grained access permissions as well, but from my experience
>>>> it is a bit harder to configure as it requires changes to a file
>>>> based
>>>> configuration file to setup the default policy. Requiring this
>>>> means
>>>> intervention of the ASF infrastructure people and they are possibly
>>>> too busy as it is. How individual page access and groups are setup
>>>> with MoinMoin is also a fiddly process. At lease with Confluence
>>>> such
>>>> things are all controllable through the web interface and somewhat
>>>> easier to manage. That MoinMoin is fiddly to setup is possibly why
>>>> they recommend a separate wiki space for the protected
>>>> documentation
>>>> as then the default policy can be just to let the selected users
>>>> edit
>>>> the pages and one doesn't have to worry about manipulating
>>>> access on individual pages.
>>>> Graham
>>>> On 13/09/2006, at 9:31 AM, Max Bowsher wrote:
>>>>> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 13/09/2006, at 8:45 AM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Woot Woot Woot! We have our wiki!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/mod_python/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now comes the hard part... what the heck are we going to do
>>>>>>> with it? :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ahhh, more work. :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously the FAQ stuff can go over there, but I would really
>>>>>> like to
>>>>>> see the
>>>>>> main LaTeX documentation converted and hosted there so it can
>>>>>> be updated
>>>>>> more easily. Might have to ask Grisha's opinion on that, he
>>>>>> might want
>>>>>> to see
>>>>>> something be able to still be downloadable with the source
>>>>>> code itself. In
>>>>>> practice though, how many actually use the LaTeX source to
>>>>>> generate their
>>>>>> own documentation, I would guess most go to the web site
>>>>>> anyway. We would
>>>>>> have to be careful though to make sure we annotate features to
>>>>>> show over
>>>>>> time at which version they were introduced, since we will not
>>>>>> have parallel
>>>>>> snapshots of documentation for each major release.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding hosting the official documentation within a wiki...
>>>>>
>>>>> A topic that has recently come up on infra@ is that anything
>>>>> that is
>>>>> editable by people without ASF CLAs on file is ineligible to be
>>>>> shipped
>>>>> as part of an official Apache release.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just thought I ought to call attention to that point, if wiki-
>>>>> fication
>>>>> of the main docs is being considered.
>>>>>
>>>>> Other projects have approached this by having two separate
>>>>> wikis, the
>>>>> documentation one being write-access-restricted to CLA-ed people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Max.
>>>>>
Re: The mod_python wiki has materialized!
Posted by Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>.
+1
Sounds like a good plan.
Jim
Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> Doing some digging into the Confluence wiki site, it seems we may be
> better off getting a wiki space created in there for mod_python which
> would be specifically for developing the official documentation. This
> could have restricted write access for core developers. That wiki space
> can then be exported as HTML/PDF to get a snapshot for inclusion in
> the release. Comments could be allowed for general Confluence users,
> but not actual page edits. The comments can be left out of any export.
> The comments would be as triggers for us to make amendments
> to the documentation.
>
> The MoinMoin site could be kept for general community contributions.
> Ie., the FAQ, examples of handlers, links to other resources etc etc.
>
> Graham
>
> On 12/10/2006, at 10:29 PM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>
>> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>>> Anyone had any thoughts on how we are going to use the wiki?
>>
>> Sections 4, 5 and 6 (API, Apache Configuration Directives and Standard
>> Handlers) of the current docs stay with in the source distribution.
>> Everything else would be a candidate for the wiki. (We should likely
>> decide which should go in the wiki vs the modpython.org website vs the
>> httpd.apache.org/modules/mod_python website).
>>
>> In no particular order:
>>
>> News
>> Roadmap
>> Installation help for various OS platforms
>> FAQ
>> Tutorials
>> Examples
>> Security considerations
>> Troubleshooting applications
>> Mailing list information
>> Developer information
>> Bug reporting information
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>> From prior comments it looks like we can't use it for the mod_python
>>> documentation if we intend to then ship a snapshot of the
>>> documentation with a release. I am not sure we are precluded
>>> from still using it for the documentation, it just means that we could
>>> not also include it in the release.
>>> To my mind this is possibly okay, as once the documentation was
>>> shifted to the wiki, wasn't thinking that a snapshot would be included
>>> with the release anyway.
>>> It is just a pity that the ASF doesn't use Confluence (the companion
>>> wiki product for JIRA), as the fine grained security mechanisms in
>>> that could have been used to protect the core documentation and
>>> prevent modification by people who shouldn't. I know that MoinMoin
>>> has fine grained access permissions as well, but from my experience
>>> it is a bit harder to configure as it requires changes to a file based
>>> configuration file to setup the default policy. Requiring this means
>>> intervention of the ASF infrastructure people and they are possibly
>>> too busy as it is. How individual page access and groups are setup
>>> with MoinMoin is also a fiddly process. At lease with Confluence such
>>> things are all controllable through the web interface and somewhat
>>> easier to manage. That MoinMoin is fiddly to setup is possibly why
>>> they recommend a separate wiki space for the protected documentation
>>> as then the default policy can be just to let the selected users edit
>>> the pages and one doesn't have to worry about manipulating
>>> access on individual pages.
>>> Graham
>>> On 13/09/2006, at 9:31 AM, Max Bowsher wrote:
>>>> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13/09/2006, at 8:45 AM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Woot Woot Woot! We have our wiki!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/mod_python/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now comes the hard part... what the heck are we going to do with
>>>>>> it? :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Ahhh, more work. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously the FAQ stuff can go over there, but I would really like to
>>>>> see the
>>>>> main LaTeX documentation converted and hosted there so it can be
>>>>> updated
>>>>> more easily. Might have to ask Grisha's opinion on that, he might want
>>>>> to see
>>>>> something be able to still be downloadable with the source code
>>>>> itself. In
>>>>> practice though, how many actually use the LaTeX source to generate
>>>>> their
>>>>> own documentation, I would guess most go to the web site anyway. We
>>>>> would
>>>>> have to be careful though to make sure we annotate features to show
>>>>> over
>>>>> time at which version they were introduced, since we will not have
>>>>> parallel
>>>>> snapshots of documentation for each major release.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding hosting the official documentation within a wiki...
>>>>
>>>> A topic that has recently come up on infra@ is that anything that is
>>>> editable by people without ASF CLAs on file is ineligible to be shipped
>>>> as part of an official Apache release.
>>>>
>>>> Just thought I ought to call attention to that point, if wiki-fication
>>>> of the main docs is being considered.
>>>>
>>>> Other projects have approached this by having two separate wikis, the
>>>> documentation one being write-access-restricted to CLA-ed people.
>>>>
>>>> Max.
>>>>
>
>
Re: The mod_python wiki has materialized!
Posted by Graham Dumpleton <gr...@dscpl.com.au>.
Doing some digging into the Confluence wiki site, it seems we may be
better off getting a wiki space created in there for mod_python which
would be specifically for developing the official documentation. This
could have restricted write access for core developers. That wiki space
can then be exported as HTML/PDF to get a snapshot for inclusion in
the release. Comments could be allowed for general Confluence users,
but not actual page edits. The comments can be left out of any export.
The comments would be as triggers for us to make amendments
to the documentation.
The MoinMoin site could be kept for general community contributions.
Ie., the FAQ, examples of handlers, links to other resources etc etc.
Graham
On 12/10/2006, at 10:29 PM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>> Anyone had any thoughts on how we are going to use the wiki?
>
> Sections 4, 5 and 6 (API, Apache Configuration Directives and
> Standard Handlers) of the current docs stay with in the source
> distribution. Everything else would be a candidate for the wiki.
> (We should likely decide which should go in the wiki vs the
> modpython.org website vs the httpd.apache.org/modules/mod_python
> website).
>
> In no particular order:
>
> News
> Roadmap
> Installation help for various OS platforms
> FAQ
> Tutorials
> Examples
> Security considerations
> Troubleshooting applications
> Mailing list information
> Developer information
> Bug reporting information
>
> Jim
>
>> From prior comments it looks like we can't use it for the mod_python
>> documentation if we intend to then ship a snapshot of the
>> documentation with a release. I am not sure we are precluded
>> from still using it for the documentation, it just means that we
>> could
>> not also include it in the release.
>> To my mind this is possibly okay, as once the documentation was
>> shifted to the wiki, wasn't thinking that a snapshot would be
>> included
>> with the release anyway.
>> It is just a pity that the ASF doesn't use Confluence (the companion
>> wiki product for JIRA), as the fine grained security mechanisms in
>> that could have been used to protect the core documentation and
>> prevent modification by people who shouldn't. I know that MoinMoin
>> has fine grained access permissions as well, but from my experience
>> it is a bit harder to configure as it requires changes to a file
>> based
>> configuration file to setup the default policy. Requiring this means
>> intervention of the ASF infrastructure people and they are possibly
>> too busy as it is. How individual page access and groups are setup
>> with MoinMoin is also a fiddly process. At lease with Confluence such
>> things are all controllable through the web interface and somewhat
>> easier to manage. That MoinMoin is fiddly to setup is possibly why
>> they recommend a separate wiki space for the protected documentation
>> as then the default policy can be just to let the selected users edit
>> the pages and one doesn't have to worry about manipulating
>> access on individual pages.
>> Graham
>> On 13/09/2006, at 9:31 AM, Max Bowsher wrote:
>>> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 13/09/2006, at 8:45 AM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Woot Woot Woot! We have our wiki!
>>>>>
>>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/mod_python/
>>>>>
>>>>> Now comes the hard part... what the heck are we going to do
>>>>> with it? :)
>>>>
>>>> Ahhh, more work. :-(
>>>>
>>>> Obviously the FAQ stuff can go over there, but I would really
>>>> like to
>>>> see the
>>>> main LaTeX documentation converted and hosted there so it can be
>>>> updated
>>>> more easily. Might have to ask Grisha's opinion on that, he
>>>> might want
>>>> to see
>>>> something be able to still be downloadable with the source code
>>>> itself. In
>>>> practice though, how many actually use the LaTeX source to
>>>> generate their
>>>> own documentation, I would guess most go to the web site anyway.
>>>> We would
>>>> have to be careful though to make sure we annotate features to
>>>> show over
>>>> time at which version they were introduced, since we will not
>>>> have parallel
>>>> snapshots of documentation for each major release.
>>>
>>> Regarding hosting the official documentation within a wiki...
>>>
>>> A topic that has recently come up on infra@ is that anything that is
>>> editable by people without ASF CLAs on file is ineligible to be
>>> shipped
>>> as part of an official Apache release.
>>>
>>> Just thought I ought to call attention to that point, if wiki-
>>> fication
>>> of the main docs is being considered.
>>>
>>> Other projects have approached this by having two separate wikis,
>>> the
>>> documentation one being write-access-restricted to CLA-ed people.
>>>
>>> Max.
>>>
Re: The mod_python wiki has materialized!
Posted by Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>.
Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> Anyone had any thoughts on how we are going to use the wiki?
Sections 4, 5 and 6 (API, Apache Configuration Directives and Standard
Handlers) of the current docs stay with in the source distribution.
Everything else would be a candidate for the wiki. (We should likely
decide which should go in the wiki vs the modpython.org website vs the
httpd.apache.org/modules/mod_python website).
In no particular order:
News
Roadmap
Installation help for various OS platforms
FAQ
Tutorials
Examples
Security considerations
Troubleshooting applications
Mailing list information
Developer information
Bug reporting information
Jim
> From prior comments it looks like we can't use it for the mod_python
> documentation if we intend to then ship a snapshot of the
> documentation with a release. I am not sure we are precluded
> from still using it for the documentation, it just means that we could
> not also include it in the release.
>
> To my mind this is possibly okay, as once the documentation was
> shifted to the wiki, wasn't thinking that a snapshot would be included
> with the release anyway.
>
> It is just a pity that the ASF doesn't use Confluence (the companion
> wiki product for JIRA), as the fine grained security mechanisms in
> that could have been used to protect the core documentation and
> prevent modification by people who shouldn't. I know that MoinMoin
> has fine grained access permissions as well, but from my experience
> it is a bit harder to configure as it requires changes to a file based
> configuration file to setup the default policy. Requiring this means
> intervention of the ASF infrastructure people and they are possibly
> too busy as it is. How individual page access and groups are setup
> with MoinMoin is also a fiddly process. At lease with Confluence such
> things are all controllable through the web interface and somewhat
> easier to manage. That MoinMoin is fiddly to setup is possibly why
> they recommend a separate wiki space for the protected documentation
> as then the default policy can be just to let the selected users edit
> the pages and one doesn't have to worry about manipulating
> access on individual pages.
>
> Graham
>
> On 13/09/2006, at 9:31 AM, Max Bowsher wrote:
>
>> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>>>
>>> On 13/09/2006, at 8:45 AM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Woot Woot Woot! We have our wiki!
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/mod_python/
>>>>
>>>> Now comes the hard part... what the heck are we going to do with it? :)
>>>
>>> Ahhh, more work. :-(
>>>
>>> Obviously the FAQ stuff can go over there, but I would really like to
>>> see the
>>> main LaTeX documentation converted and hosted there so it can be updated
>>> more easily. Might have to ask Grisha's opinion on that, he might want
>>> to see
>>> something be able to still be downloadable with the source code
>>> itself. In
>>> practice though, how many actually use the LaTeX source to generate
>>> their
>>> own documentation, I would guess most go to the web site anyway. We
>>> would
>>> have to be careful though to make sure we annotate features to show over
>>> time at which version they were introduced, since we will not have
>>> parallel
>>> snapshots of documentation for each major release.
>>
>> Regarding hosting the official documentation within a wiki...
>>
>> A topic that has recently come up on infra@ is that anything that is
>> editable by people without ASF CLAs on file is ineligible to be shipped
>> as part of an official Apache release.
>>
>> Just thought I ought to call attention to that point, if wiki-fication
>> of the main docs is being considered.
>>
>> Other projects have approached this by having two separate wikis, the
>> documentation one being write-access-restricted to CLA-ed people.
>>
>> Max.
>>
>
>
Re: The mod_python wiki has materialized!
Posted by Graham Dumpleton <gr...@dscpl.com.au>.
I spoke too soon. The ASF has:
http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/homepage.action
Now I am confused as to what roles MoinMoin fills versus the
Confluence wiki.
Can anyone fill me in on the roles of each?
Graham
On 12/10/2006, at 9:49 PM, Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> Anyone had any thoughts on how we are going to use the wiki?
>
> From prior comments it looks like we can't use it for the mod_python
> documentation if we intend to then ship a snapshot of the
> documentation with a release. I am not sure we are precluded
> from still using it for the documentation, it just means that we could
> not also include it in the release.
>
> To my mind this is possibly okay, as once the documentation was
> shifted to the wiki, wasn't thinking that a snapshot would be included
> with the release anyway.
>
> It is just a pity that the ASF doesn't use Confluence (the companion
> wiki product for JIRA), as the fine grained security mechanisms in
> that could have been used to protect the core documentation and
> prevent modification by people who shouldn't. I know that MoinMoin
> has fine grained access permissions as well, but from my experience
> it is a bit harder to configure as it requires changes to a file based
> configuration file to setup the default policy. Requiring this means
> intervention of the ASF infrastructure people and they are possibly
> too busy as it is. How individual page access and groups are setup
> with MoinMoin is also a fiddly process. At lease with Confluence such
> things are all controllable through the web interface and somewhat
> easier to manage. That MoinMoin is fiddly to setup is possibly why
> they recommend a separate wiki space for the protected documentation
> as then the default policy can be just to let the selected users edit
> the pages and one doesn't have to worry about manipulating
> access on individual pages.
>
> Graham
>
> On 13/09/2006, at 9:31 AM, Max Bowsher wrote:
>
>> Graham Dumpleton wrote:
>>>
>>> On 13/09/2006, at 8:45 AM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Woot Woot Woot! We have our wiki!
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/mod_python/
>>>>
>>>> Now comes the hard part... what the heck are we going to do with
>>>> it? :)
>>>
>>> Ahhh, more work. :-(
>>>
>>> Obviously the FAQ stuff can go over there, but I would really
>>> like to
>>> see the
>>> main LaTeX documentation converted and hosted there so it can be
>>> updated
>>> more easily. Might have to ask Grisha's opinion on that, he might
>>> want
>>> to see
>>> something be able to still be downloadable with the source code
>>> itself. In
>>> practice though, how many actually use the LaTeX source to
>>> generate their
>>> own documentation, I would guess most go to the web site anyway.
>>> We would
>>> have to be careful though to make sure we annotate features to
>>> show over
>>> time at which version they were introduced, since we will not
>>> have parallel
>>> snapshots of documentation for each major release.
>>
>> Regarding hosting the official documentation within a wiki...
>>
>> A topic that has recently come up on infra@ is that anything that is
>> editable by people without ASF CLAs on file is ineligible to be
>> shipped
>> as part of an official Apache release.
>>
>> Just thought I ought to call attention to that point, if wiki-
>> fication
>> of the main docs is being considered.
>>
>> Other projects have approached this by having two separate wikis, the
>> documentation one being write-access-restricted to CLA-ed people.
>>
>> Max.
>>
>