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Posted to dev@vcl.apache.org by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com> on 2011/09/04 16:07:40 UTC
Graduation?
It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.
I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are requirements to be met, what is being done to address these requirements? "incubation" is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing these issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the graduation process...
--kevan
Re: Graduation?
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Sep 6, 2011, at 10:22 AM, James O'Dell wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 9/4/2011 4:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
>>
>>> It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.
>>>
>>> I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are requirements to be met, what is being done to address these requirements? "incubation" is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing these issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the graduation process…
>>
>> I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good. I wish there were some diversity. This project has most of it's members being NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU "pulled the plug" on their efforts the project would not survive.
>>
>> As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation. I'm not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if there are any.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alan
>>
>
> I certainly see NCSU as the leader in VCL, and I do see their
> continued support as key to the success of the project.
> I'm just wondering if the project were to graduate(It certainly
> seems stable enough to), if that wouldn't generate more diversity
> via greater exposure.
Unfortunately the diversity must be there before it graduates. We can't graduate the polling and hope for the best, this is what the Incubator is all about.
> As a point, our vice president of information technology is
> scheduled to give a presentation at EduCause this October.
> VCL is his the topic. I'm hoping this will generate some buzz.
I'm happy to wait until October to see if the rest of the project does as well. However, I think we face the fact that this project has been around for quite a long time and has not attracted new committers. Maybe the project could park at GitHub, or somewhere, and if and when the it becomes diverse enough it could come back; if it still wanted to.
Regards,
Alan
Re: Graduation?
Posted by James O'Dell <jo...@fullerton.edu>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 9/4/2011 4:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
> On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
>
>> It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.
>>
>> I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are requirements to be met, what is being done to address these requirements? "incubation" is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing these issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the graduation process…
>
> I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good. I wish there were some diversity. This project has most of it's members being NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU "pulled the plug" on their efforts the project would not survive.
>
> As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation. I'm not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if there are any.
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
I certainly see NCSU as the leader in VCL, and I do see their
continued support as key to the success of the project.
I'm just wondering if the project were to graduate(It certainly
seems stable enough to), if that wouldn't generate more diversity
via greater exposure.
As a point, our vice president of information technology is
scheduled to give a presentation at EduCause this October.
VCL is his the topic. I'm hoping this will generate some buzz.
__Jim
- --
Jim O'Dell
Network Analyst
California State University Fullerton
Email: jodell@fullerton.edu
Phone: (657) 278-2256
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Re: Graduation?
Posted by Aaron Peeler <fa...@ncsu.edu>.
I agree with the diversity point and would also like to see more
diversity among the community developers.
I don't see NCSU stopping our efforts on VCL development, but that is
just my view point. NCSU has a great deal invested in our time,
resources, and other research projects using VCL services. In addition
the NCSU population would not be very happy if VCL was discontinued.
Our usage numbers for last week hit close to 6000 reservations for
over 2500 users.
Anyone in the community who is interested in getting more involved in
the development process, please don't hesitate to speak up either on
the list(preferred method) or directly to any of the active
developers(myself, Andy Kurth, or Josh Thompson). We can guide you
through the process of getting more involved. We'd love to hear from
you.
Thanks,
Aaron
On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>
> On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
>
>> It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.
>>
>> I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are requirements to be met, what is being done to address these requirements? "incubation" is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing these issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the graduation process…
>
> I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good. I wish there were some diversity. This project has most of it's members being NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU "pulled the plug" on their efforts the project would not survive.
>
> As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation. I'm not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if there are any.
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>
--
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University
All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
Re: Graduation?
Posted by Art Vandenberg <av...@gsu.edu>.
thanks. Will look to JIRA then.
Art
On Sep 8, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Josh Thompson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>> Is there a place where such features are listed?
>>
>> thanks
>> Art
>
> There are 2 places for these types of features to be listed right
> now. One is
> to look at the roadmap listed on the latest release page. However,
> those
> features are more high level and rather involved.
>
> The other is in our JIRA system. Anyone can create new issues
> there. There
> are various types of issues that can be created, most notable are:
>
> Bug
> Improvement
> New Feature
>
> So, what I would suggest is to create a "New Feature" issue for
> anything you'd
> like to see added to VCL. Issues can be voted on. Anyone else
> wanting the
> same feature can vote for them so that they become a higher priority
> to the
> rest of the community.
>
> Josh
> - --
> - -------------------------------
> Josh Thompson
> VCL Developer
> North Carolina State University
>
> my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
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Art Vandenberg
Account Manager/Research Function
Customer Relations, IS&T
Information Systems & Technology
Georgia State University
avandenberg@gsu.edu
+1 404 413 4743
MS Information & Computer Science, Georgia Tech
MVA Painting & Drawing, Georgia State
Web page: http://www.gsu.edu/ist/acs/25735.html
Re: Graduation?
Posted by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 8, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Josh Thompson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>> Is there a place where such features are listed?
>>
>> thanks
>> Art
>
> There are 2 places for these types of features to be listed right now. One is
> to look at the roadmap listed on the latest release page. However, those
> features are more high level and rather involved.
>
> The other is in our JIRA system. Anyone can create new issues there. There
> are various types of issues that can be created, most notable are:
>
> Bug
> Improvement
> New Feature
>
> So, what I would suggest is to create a "New Feature" issue for anything you'd
> like to see added to VCL. Issues can be voted on. Anyone else wanting the
> same feature can vote for them so that they become a higher priority to the
> rest of the community.
Good discussions.
A good time to review -- http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community
Also, http://incubator.apache.org/guides/community.html Particularly http://incubator.apache.org/guides/community.html#notes-community
Active committers -- the easier you can make it for someone to contribute, the more people will help. It seems there is a good user base. You need to help foster developers/contributors in this community:
* actively advertise things that need to be done
* don't fix everything (especially simpler tasks that are good for newcomers)
* praise contributions
* ask, beg, borrow for contributions
* use social media -- twitter, facebook, etc.
* is there a VCL irc channel? if not, consider using one
* freshen up the web site -- http://incubator.apache.org/vcl/
Note that "contributions" need not be in the form of "code". Documentation, web site, answering user questions -- all are valuable contributions to the community.
--kevan
Re: Graduation?
Posted by Josh Thompson <jo...@ncsu.edu>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
> Is there a place where such features are listed?
>
> thanks
> Art
There are 2 places for these types of features to be listed right now. One is
to look at the roadmap listed on the latest release page. However, those
features are more high level and rather involved.
The other is in our JIRA system. Anyone can create new issues there. There
are various types of issues that can be created, most notable are:
Bug
Improvement
New Feature
So, what I would suggest is to create a "New Feature" issue for anything you'd
like to see added to VCL. Issues can be voted on. Anyone else wanting the
same feature can vote for them so that they become a higher priority to the
rest of the community.
Josh
- --
- -------------------------------
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University
my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
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Re: Graduation?
Posted by Mark Gardner <mk...@vt.edu>.
I too am ramping up a pilot here at Virginia Tech and expect to be able to
contribute more in the future. I have incomplete code for the frontend that
adds support for IPv6. (I have also fixed a bug in IPv4 validity checking
which I need to check in but the fix is in the context of the IPv6 code.) I
will be moving on to the backend IPv6 code next. I would request that the
Foundation to be generous in allowing the project to continue flowering. I
think we will get there.
Mark
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Art Vandenberg <av...@gsu.edu> wrote:
> I concur with the thoughts on this. At Georgia State I am working with
> Computer Science (I am in IT) to build up some resources that can move
> toward contributor level. It is a somewhat "gradual" process, but I think
> we are moving in the right direction.
>
> Would it be useful to consider listing a set of "known feature requests" so
> that we could use that as "Challenges" to computer science (students,
> post-docs...)?
>
> I've thought of several, but not really sure how "important" they might be
> - other than being bite-sized items that would engage students, and get them
> started (i.e. develop code on our own devl system, pass up for review and
> perhaps incorporation, and so to eventually gain additional contributors.)
>
> For instance:
> a) Provide option on the VCL Statistics so that one can download resource
> management traces, e.g. to CSV file.
> Aaron Peeler was kind enough to send us a sql query (6/22/2011 email)
> he's used. My thought would be that students would use that as start and
> implement an option to download based on this (e.g. user selectable option).
> While the SQL Query is already done (Aaron) and the feature may be somewhat
> trivial, it could serve to get students involved.
>
> b) A feature that Kelly Robinson asked about the other day (8/31/2011
> email) "Block Allocation request. Can this be limited so that only those
> within a particular group (faculty) can make the request?" Mike Waldron's
> reply (8/31) was "I don't know a way to restrict this function to specific
> users. Looks like it would require a coding change for the frontend." That
> might be another feature of interest.
>
> I know that Henry Schaffer has mentioned a feature's request list (way to
> manage image list for instance).
>
> Is there a place where such features are listed?
>
> thanks
> Art
>
>
>
> On Sep 8, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On Thursday September 08, 2011, Kevan Miller wrote:
>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in
>>>>> hearing
>>>>> the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for
>>>>> graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are requirements
>>>>> to be met, what is being done to address these requirements?
>>>>> "incubation" is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects
>>>>> required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing these
>>>>> issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the graduation
>>>>> process…
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good. I
>>>> wish
>>>> there were some diversity. This project has most of it's members being
>>>> NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU "pulled the plug" on their
>>>> efforts the project would not survive.
>>>>
>>>> As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation. I'm
>>>> not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if
>>>> there are any.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Alan. I think we're largely in agreement. I've been encouraged by
>>> the level of activity and discussions within the community.
>>>
>>> I share the diversity concern (it's my only concern, at the moment). Like
>>> you, I'd be reluctant to support graduation without some growth and
>>> additional participation in the community. Unfortunately, we've been in
>>> this state for a while and I'm worried that it isn't going to change
>>> anytime soon...
>>>
>>> --kevan
>>>
>>
>> The diversity issue has been my concern since we moved the codebase to
>> ASF. I
>> do think the community will eventually grow enough to not be dependent on
>> a
>> single institution's involvement. It's just a really slow process to get
>> there. VCL is a large system, and it's not something a developer would
>> just
>> decide to jump in and start working on without having the infrastructure
>> to
>> run it and a set of users to use it.
>>
>> The community is slowly growing, first in users, and now in people
>> contributing smaller bits of code. It's only a matter of time before the
>> people that are contributing smaller bits of code start contributing
>> larger
>> stuff. At that time, we'll have enough support to graduate. To me, the
>> only
>> question is, how long is ASF willing to wait for this to happen? If
>> that's
>> another year, maybe 2, then I think we'll make it. If it's only a few
>> more
>> months, then I'm not so sure.
>>
>> Josh
>> - --
>> - ------------------------------**-
>> Josh Thompson
>> VCL Developer
>> North Carolina State University
>>
>> my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>> iEYEARECAAYFAk5o4PMACgkQV/**LQcNdtPQM3TACbB4pNqHsJ+**LpKCLME4Xz5nuZo
>> DFQAniVW/**QHQE7OnNnBTzmwVGFraBgBw
>> =oKdr
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
> Art Vandenberg
> Account Manager/Research Function
> Customer Relations, IS&T
> Information Systems & Technology
> Georgia State University
> avandenberg@gsu.edu
> +1 404 413 4743
> MS Information & Computer Science, Georgia Tech
> MVA Painting & Drawing, Georgia State
> Web page: http://www.gsu.edu/ist/acs/**25735.html<http://www.gsu.edu/ist/acs/25735.html>
>
>
>
>
--
Mark Gardner
--
Re: Graduation?
Posted by Art Vandenberg <av...@gsu.edu>.
I concur with the thoughts on this. At Georgia State I am working
with Computer Science (I am in IT) to build up some resources that can
move toward contributor level. It is a somewhat "gradual" process,
but I think we are moving in the right direction.
Would it be useful to consider listing a set of "known feature
requests" so that we could use that as "Challenges" to computer
science (students, post-docs...)?
I've thought of several, but not really sure how "important" they
might be - other than being bite-sized items that would engage
students, and get them started (i.e. develop code on our own devl
system, pass up for review and perhaps incorporation, and so to
eventually gain additional contributors.)
For instance:
a) Provide option on the VCL Statistics so that one can download
resource management traces, e.g. to CSV file.
Aaron Peeler was kind enough to send us a sql query (6/22/2011
email) he's used. My thought would be that students would use that as
start and implement an option to download based on this (e.g. user
selectable option). While the SQL Query is already done (Aaron) and
the feature may be somewhat trivial, it could serve to get students
involved.
b) A feature that Kelly Robinson asked about the other day
(8/31/2011 email) "Block Allocation request. Can this be limited so
that only those within a particular group (faculty) can make the
request?" Mike Waldron's reply (8/31) was "I don't know a way to
restrict this function to specific users. Looks like it would require
a coding change for the frontend." That might be another feature of
interest.
I know that Henry Schaffer has mentioned a feature's request list (way
to manage image list for instance).
Is there a place where such features are listed?
thanks
Art
On Sep 8, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Thursday September 08, 2011, Kevan Miller wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>>> On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
>>>> It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.
>>>>
>>>> I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in
>>>> hearing
>>>> the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for
>>>> graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are
>>>> requirements
>>>> to be met, what is being done to address these requirements?
>>>> "incubation" is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects
>>>> required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing
>>>> these
>>>> issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the
>>>> graduation
>>>> process…
>>>
>>> I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good.
>>> I wish
>>> there were some diversity. This project has most of it's members
>>> being
>>> NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU "pulled the plug" on
>>> their
>>> efforts the project would not survive.
>>>
>>> As it stands the project would not have my support for
>>> graduation. I'm
>>> not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other
>>> viewpoints, if
>>> there are any.
>>
>> Thanks Alan. I think we're largely in agreement. I've been
>> encouraged by
>> the level of activity and discussions within the community.
>>
>> I share the diversity concern (it's my only concern, at the
>> moment). Like
>> you, I'd be reluctant to support graduation without some growth and
>> additional participation in the community. Unfortunately, we've
>> been in
>> this state for a while and I'm worried that it isn't going to change
>> anytime soon...
>>
>> --kevan
>
> The diversity issue has been my concern since we moved the codebase
> to ASF. I
> do think the community will eventually grow enough to not be
> dependent on a
> single institution's involvement. It's just a really slow process
> to get
> there. VCL is a large system, and it's not something a developer
> would just
> decide to jump in and start working on without having the
> infrastructure to
> run it and a set of users to use it.
>
> The community is slowly growing, first in users, and now in people
> contributing smaller bits of code. It's only a matter of time
> before the
> people that are contributing smaller bits of code start contributing
> larger
> stuff. At that time, we'll have enough support to graduate. To me,
> the only
> question is, how long is ASF willing to wait for this to happen? If
> that's
> another year, maybe 2, then I think we'll make it. If it's only a
> few more
> months, then I'm not so sure.
>
> Josh
> - --
> - -------------------------------
> Josh Thompson
> VCL Developer
> North Carolina State University
>
> my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
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> =oKdr
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
Art Vandenberg
Account Manager/Research Function
Customer Relations, IS&T
Information Systems & Technology
Georgia State University
avandenberg@gsu.edu
+1 404 413 4743
MS Information & Computer Science, Georgia Tech
MVA Painting & Drawing, Georgia State
Web page: http://www.gsu.edu/ist/acs/25735.html
Re: Graduation?
Posted by Josh Thompson <jo...@ncsu.edu>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Thursday September 08, 2011, Kevan Miller wrote:
> On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> > On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
> >> It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.
> >>
> >> I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing
> >> the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for
> >> graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are requirements
> >> to be met, what is being done to address these requirements?
> >> "incubation" is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects
> >> required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing these
> >> issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the graduation
> >> process…
> >
> > I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good. I wish
> > there were some diversity. This project has most of it's members being
> > NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU "pulled the plug" on their
> > efforts the project would not survive.
> >
> > As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation. I'm
> > not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if
> > there are any.
>
> Thanks Alan. I think we're largely in agreement. I've been encouraged by
> the level of activity and discussions within the community.
>
> I share the diversity concern (it's my only concern, at the moment). Like
> you, I'd be reluctant to support graduation without some growth and
> additional participation in the community. Unfortunately, we've been in
> this state for a while and I'm worried that it isn't going to change
> anytime soon...
>
> --kevan
The diversity issue has been my concern since we moved the codebase to ASF. I
do think the community will eventually grow enough to not be dependent on a
single institution's involvement. It's just a really slow process to get
there. VCL is a large system, and it's not something a developer would just
decide to jump in and start working on without having the infrastructure to
run it and a set of users to use it.
The community is slowly growing, first in users, and now in people
contributing smaller bits of code. It's only a matter of time before the
people that are contributing smaller bits of code start contributing larger
stuff. At that time, we'll have enough support to graduate. To me, the only
question is, how long is ASF willing to wait for this to happen? If that's
another year, maybe 2, then I think we'll make it. If it's only a few more
months, then I'm not so sure.
Josh
- --
- -------------------------------
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University
my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
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Re: Graduation?
Posted by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
> On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
>
>> It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.
>>
>> I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are requirements to be met, what is being done to address these requirements? "incubation" is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing these issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the graduation process…
>
> I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good. I wish there were some diversity. This project has most of it's members being NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU "pulled the plug" on their efforts the project would not survive.
>
> As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation. I'm not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if there are any.
Thanks Alan. I think we're largely in agreement. I've been encouraged by the level of activity and discussions within the community.
I share the diversity concern (it's my only concern, at the moment). Like you, I'd be reluctant to support graduation without some growth and additional participation in the community. Unfortunately, we've been in this state for a while and I'm worried that it isn't going to change anytime soon...
--kevan
Re: Graduation?
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
> It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.
>
> I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are requirements to be met, what is being done to address these requirements? "incubation" is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing these issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the graduation process…
I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good. I wish there were some diversity. This project has most of it's members being NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU "pulled the plug" on their efforts the project would not survive.
As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation. I'm not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if there are any.
Regards,
Alan