Fwd: Last Name Change

[Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>]

I've elided the details to protect the requester's privacy.

This is not the first case where a name change needs to be recorded for a committer. I believe we need to have a new ICLA with the new name but how do we handle the iclas.txt and the original ICLA with the former name? 

I think we need a policy on how to handle it. Just in case it comes up again. ;-)

WDYT?

Craig

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: xxx@apache.org>
> Subject: Last Name Change
> Date: December 19, 2021 at 1:57:46 AM PST
> To: secretary@apache.org
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am an apache submitter and recently changed my last name. I would like to ask, what is necessary to get my name changed on 
> the ASF database and on the submitters page and if there are additional considerations I need to address.
> New Name: yyy
> Former name: xxx
> My ASF Apache Userid: user_x
> 
> Thank You
> 
> yyy
> 
> 

Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org

Re: Last Name Change

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 7:32 PM Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Dec 21, 2021, at 1:05 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 12:47 PM Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Here's my proposal.
>>
>> We accept the new ICLA as a "second ICLA" which means that it will be
>> filed as:
>> previous-name/icla2.pdf
>>
>
> Nit: it isn't so much "second ICLA" but rather "next ICLA" (since a person
> can keep changing the legal name quite a bit). That said -- I don't think
> it changes the scheme you're proposing.
>
>
> Sorry for my mistake. I was typing from memory. The actual secretary
> workbench item is "additional icla". So it appears we are in complete
> agreement. Pending infra's comments...
>

Infra doesn't have a voice in this. Do your thing, and file an INFRA ticket
to describe the work needed for a specific name change.

Cheers,
Greg
InfraAdmin, ASF

Re: Last Name Change

[Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>]

> On Dec 21, 2021, at 1:05 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 12:47 PM Craig Russell <apache.clr@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Here's my proposal. 
> 
> We accept the new ICLA as a "second ICLA" which means that it will be filed as:
> previous-name/icla2.pdf
> 
> Nit: it isn't so much "second ICLA" but rather "next ICLA" (since a person can keep changing the legal name quite a bit). That said -- I don't think it changes the scheme you're proposing.

Sorry for my mistake. I was typing from memory. The actual secretary workbench item is "additional icla". So it appears we are in complete agreement. Pending infra's comments...

This does point out a potential secretary workbench feature: allow changing of both Full Name and Public Name in the "additional icla" form.

Craig
>  
> The iclas.txt will be changed from:
> id:Previous Name:Previous Name:...:previous-name
> to:
> id:Current Name:Current Name:...:previous-name
> 
> Since the current secretary workbench does not allow changing the Full Name, that change will need to be done via whimsy or manual svn.
> 
> Yup.
>  
> This allows the person to continue to use their id and the current information is their current name. But the ICLAs are filed under iclas/previous-name/icla1.pdf and iclas/previous-name/icla2.pdf. We have not lost any information, and can always find it keyed off the id.
> 
> Works for me.
> 
> I don't think the above needs to be reflected in a policy (we can just start rolling with this) -- but let me know if you disagree. Policy aside, documenting this would still be useful, although I don't know what secretary uses as their docs.
> 
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>  
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2021, at 12:00 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org <ma...@shaposhnik.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 2:40 PM Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> In Infra, we have seen name changes where the contributor *keeps* their username. For example, userid "jdoe" changing their legal name from "Jane Doe" to "John Doe". Since iclas.txt is keyed from the username, we lose the fact that it used to be "Jane Doe".
>> 
>> We've seen changes in all parts of a name (eg. transitions, marriages, or divorces). On some, they have requested a username change, too. When that happens, we put the old username into our list of "reserved" usernames, which in this case acts as an exclusion list so that a future person cannot assume/impersonate an old username.
>> 
>> Clearly, the history around "jdoe" is present in svn history (and our set of signed ICLAs), but there is no indicator that a person should even *look* at the history. Instead, it resides within tribal knowledge (like, how I can discuss the above points; it's in my head, and technically in svn, only if you know where/should to look).
>> 
>> To respond to the original question, I would suggest we only need a new ICLA if the person has a new legal name. We want an agreement from the person under each name they have used, legally. If a person files an ICLA with a new *assumed* name, but not a legal change, then I don't think we should bother to refuse it. It doesn't really hurt us. But I do believe we can provide guidance on when we "need" a new ICLA.
>> 
>> My preference is along the lines of Greg's: file a new ICLA. However, I'd be also open to have an entry in the ICLA where you would specify the name used on the last ICLA you had with us. That way we can at least build a linked list.
>> 
>> WDYAT? 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roman. 
> 
> Craig L Russell
> clr@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> 

Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org

Re: Last Name Change

[Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>]

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 12:47 PM Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Here's my proposal.
>
> We accept the new ICLA as a "second ICLA" which means that it will be
> filed as:
> previous-name/icla2.pdf
>

Nit: it isn't so much "second ICLA" but rather "next ICLA" (since a person
can keep changing the legal name quite a bit). That said -- I don't think
it changes the scheme you're proposing.


> The iclas.txt will be changed from:
> id:Previous Name:Previous Name:...:previous-name
> to:
> id:Current Name:Current Name:...:previous-name
>
> Since the current secretary workbench does not allow changing the Full
> Name, that change will need to be done via whimsy or manual svn.
>

Yup.


> This allows the person to continue to use their id and the current
> information is their current name. But the ICLAs are filed under
> iclas/previous-name/icla1.pdf and iclas/previous-name/icla2.pdf. We have
> not lost any information, and can always find it keyed off the id.
>

Works for me.

I don't think the above needs to be reflected in a policy (we can just
start rolling with this) -- but let me know if you disagree. Policy aside,
documenting this would still be useful, although I don't know what
secretary uses as their docs.

Thanks,
Roman.


>
> Craig
>
> On Dec 21, 2021, at 12:00 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 2:40 PM Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In Infra, we have seen name changes where the contributor *keeps* their
>> username. For example, userid "jdoe" changing their legal name from "Jane
>> Doe" to "John Doe". Since iclas.txt is keyed from the username, we lose the
>> fact that it used to be "Jane Doe".
>>
>> We've seen changes in all parts of a name (eg. transitions, marriages, or
>> divorces). On some, they have requested a username change, too. When that
>> happens, we put the old username into our list of "reserved" usernames,
>> which in this case acts as an exclusion list so that a future person cannot
>> assume/impersonate an old username.
>>
>> Clearly, the history around "jdoe" is present in svn history (and our set
>> of signed ICLAs), but there is no indicator that a person should even
>> *look* at the history. Instead, it resides within tribal knowledge (like,
>> how I can discuss the above points; it's in my head, and technically in
>> svn, only if you know where/should to look).
>>
>> To respond to the original question, I would suggest we only need a new
>> ICLA if the person has a new legal name. We want an agreement from the
>> person under each name they have used, legally. If a person files an ICLA
>> with a new *assumed* name, but not a legal change, then I don't think we
>> should bother to refuse it. It doesn't really hurt us. But I do believe we
>> can provide guidance on when we "need" a new ICLA.
>>
>
> My preference is along the lines of Greg's: file a new ICLA. However, I'd
> be also open to have an entry in the ICLA where you would specify the name
> used on the last ICLA you had with us. That way we can at least build a
> linked list.
>
> WDYAT?
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
>
> Craig L Russell
> clr@apache.org
>
>

Re: Last Name Change

[Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>]

Here's my proposal. 

We accept the new ICLA as a "second ICLA" which means that it will be filed as:
previous-name/icla2.pdf

The iclas.txt will be changed from:
id:Previous Name:Previous Name:...:previous-name
to:
id:Current Name:Current Name:...:previous-name

Since the current secretary workbench does not allow changing the Full Name, that change will need to be done via whimsy or manual svn.

This allows the person to continue to use their id and the current information is their current name. But the ICLAs are filed under iclas/previous-name/icla1.pdf and iclas/previous-name/icla2.pdf. We have not lost any information, and can always find it keyed off the id.

Craig

> On Dec 21, 2021, at 12:00 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 2:40 PM Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> In Infra, we have seen name changes where the contributor *keeps* their username. For example, userid "jdoe" changing their legal name from "Jane Doe" to "John Doe". Since iclas.txt is keyed from the username, we lose the fact that it used to be "Jane Doe".
> 
> We've seen changes in all parts of a name (eg. transitions, marriages, or divorces). On some, they have requested a username change, too. When that happens, we put the old username into our list of "reserved" usernames, which in this case acts as an exclusion list so that a future person cannot assume/impersonate an old username.
> 
> Clearly, the history around "jdoe" is present in svn history (and our set of signed ICLAs), but there is no indicator that a person should even *look* at the history. Instead, it resides within tribal knowledge (like, how I can discuss the above points; it's in my head, and technically in svn, only if you know where/should to look).
> 
> To respond to the original question, I would suggest we only need a new ICLA if the person has a new legal name. We want an agreement from the person under each name they have used, legally. If a person files an ICLA with a new *assumed* name, but not a legal change, then I don't think we should bother to refuse it. It doesn't really hurt us. But I do believe we can provide guidance on when we "need" a new ICLA.
> 
> My preference is along the lines of Greg's: file a new ICLA. However, I'd be also open to have an entry in the ICLA where you would specify the name used on the last ICLA you had with us. That way we can at least build a linked list.
> 
> WDYAT? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Roman. 

Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org

Re: Last Name Change

[Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>]

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 2:40 PM Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In Infra, we have seen name changes where the contributor *keeps* their
> username. For example, userid "jdoe" changing their legal name from "Jane
> Doe" to "John Doe". Since iclas.txt is keyed from the username, we lose the
> fact that it used to be "Jane Doe".
>
> We've seen changes in all parts of a name (eg. transitions, marriages, or
> divorces). On some, they have requested a username change, too. When that
> happens, we put the old username into our list of "reserved" usernames,
> which in this case acts as an exclusion list so that a future person cannot
> assume/impersonate an old username.
>
> Clearly, the history around "jdoe" is present in svn history (and our set
> of signed ICLAs), but there is no indicator that a person should even
> *look* at the history. Instead, it resides within tribal knowledge (like,
> how I can discuss the above points; it's in my head, and technically in
> svn, only if you know where/should to look).
>
> To respond to the original question, I would suggest we only need a new
> ICLA if the person has a new legal name. We want an agreement from the
> person under each name they have used, legally. If a person files an ICLA
> with a new *assumed* name, but not a legal change, then I don't think we
> should bother to refuse it. It doesn't really hurt us. But I do believe we
> can provide guidance on when we "need" a new ICLA.
>

My preference is along the lines of Greg's: file a new ICLA. However, I'd
be also open to have an entry in the ICLA where you would specify the name
used on the last ICLA you had with us. That way we can at least build a
linked list.

WDYAT?

Thanks,
Roman.

Re: Last Name Change

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

In Infra, we have seen name changes where the contributor *keeps* their
username. For example, userid "jdoe" changing their legal name from "Jane
Doe" to "John Doe". Since iclas.txt is keyed from the username, we lose the
fact that it used to be "Jane Doe".

We've seen changes in all parts of a name (eg. transitions, marriages, or
divorces). On some, they have requested a username change, too. When that
happens, we put the old username into our list of "reserved" usernames,
which in this case acts as an exclusion list so that a future person cannot
assume/impersonate an old username.

Clearly, the history around "jdoe" is present in svn history (and our set
of signed ICLAs), but there is no indicator that a person should even
*look* at the history. Instead, it resides within tribal knowledge (like,
how I can discuss the above points; it's in my head, and technically in
svn, only if you know where/should to look).

To respond to the original question, I would suggest we only need a new
ICLA if the person has a new legal name. We want an agreement from the
person under each name they have used, legally. If a person files an ICLA
with a new *assumed* name, but not a legal change, then I don't think we
should bother to refuse it. It doesn't really hurt us. But I do believe we
can provide guidance on when we "need" a new ICLA.

Cheers,
-g


On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 2:28 PM Hen <ba...@apache.org> wrote:

> My assumption is that our default policy would be to leave the original
> data entry. I assume that it is still the applicable agreement for
> contributions made from the point it was signed to the point of the name
> change. I guess it depends on how "current" is understood in the ICLA's
> "current and future contributions".
>
> Thinking data modelling; what the iclas.txt should have is an indication
> that an agreement has been terminated. For the name change, the assumption
> is that the previous entry is now terminated.
>
> Hen
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 10:31 AM Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I've elided the details to protect the requester's privacy.
>>
>> This is not the first case where a name change needs to be recorded for a
>> committer. I believe we need to have a new ICLA with the new name but how
>> do we handle the iclas.txt and the original ICLA with the former name?
>>
>> I think we need a policy on how to handle it. Just in case it comes up
>> again. ;-)
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From: *xxx@apache.org>
>> *Subject: **Last Name Change*
>> *Date: *December 19, 2021 at 1:57:46 AM PST
>> *To: *secretary@apache.org
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am an apache submitter and recently changed my last name. I would like
>> to ask, what is necessary to get my name changed on
>> the ASF database and on the submitters page and if there are additional
>> considerations I need to address.
>> New Name: yyy
>> Former name: xxx
>> My ASF Apache Userid: user_x
>>
>> Thank You
>>
>> yyy
>>
>>
>>
>> Craig L Russell
>> clr@apache.org
>>
>>

Re: Last Name Change

[Hen <ba...@apache.org>]

My assumption is that our default policy would be to leave the original
data entry. I assume that it is still the applicable agreement for
contributions made from the point it was signed to the point of the name
change. I guess it depends on how "current" is understood in the ICLA's
"current and future contributions".

Thinking data modelling; what the iclas.txt should have is an indication
that an agreement has been terminated. For the name change, the assumption
is that the previous entry is now terminated.

Hen

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 10:31 AM Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've elided the details to protect the requester's privacy.
>
> This is not the first case where a name change needs to be recorded for a
> committer. I believe we need to have a new ICLA with the new name but how
> do we handle the iclas.txt and the original ICLA with the former name?
>
> I think we need a policy on how to handle it. Just in case it comes up
> again. ;-)
>
> WDYT?
>
> Craig
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *xxx@apache.org>
> *Subject: **Last Name Change*
> *Date: *December 19, 2021 at 1:57:46 AM PST
> *To: *secretary@apache.org
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am an apache submitter and recently changed my last name. I would like
> to ask, what is necessary to get my name changed on
> the ASF database and on the submitters page and if there are additional
> considerations I need to address.
> New Name: yyy
> Former name: xxx
> My ASF Apache Userid: user_x
>
> Thank You
>
> yyy
>
>
>
> Craig L Russell
> clr@apache.org
>
>

Re: Last Name Change

["Guillermo Vanegas, Jr." <g_...@icloud.com.INVALID>]

Hello, Craig!

The nature of the name change would have to be considered, as it is consequential if done incorrectly. Or for no good reason. That being said, I’m sure there are also plenty of good reasons for a name change on a project, but it must be gauged. 

Typeform can be utilized as a tool for contributors to initially communicate these kinds of concerns to us. Digitized notary-like services require protocols to be set for these communications so an appropriate ticket must be made and sent to the correct expert/facilitator on the matter.

Will keep you posted on developments. 

Thanks for reaching out and feel free to do so anytime. 

P.S.

|R.U.S.T.| (R U Still There)|

I’ve realized this email is literally RUST code, and that RUST is how API stays put, or figures out where to go next! Now don’t go steeling any ideas, now. Okay?

Stay whimsically skillful and safe!

Best regards.

Signed,

Guillermo Vanegas, Jr. | 

I ASF® & Apple, Inc.|

DevOps | A.I. | Cloud Computing |


Copyright © 2021 The Apache Software Foundation. Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0

Apache®, the names of Apache projects and their logos, and the  feather logo are registered trademarks or trademarks of The Apache Software Foundation in the United States and/or other countries.


> On Dec 19, 2021, at 1:31 PM, Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I've elided the details to protect the requester's privacy.
> 
> This is not the first case where a name change needs to be recorded for a committer. I believe we need to have a new ICLA with the new name but how do we handle the iclas.txt and the original ICLA with the former name? 
> 
> I think we need a policy on how to handle it. Just in case it comes up again. ;-)
> 
> WDYT?
> 
> Craig
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: xxx@apache.org>
>> Subject: Last Name Change
>> Date: December 19, 2021 at 1:57:46 AM PST
>> To: secretary@apache.org
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I am an apache submitter and recently changed my last name. I would like to ask, what is necessary to get my name changed on 
>> the ASF database and on the submitters page and if there are additional considerations I need to address.
>> New Name: yyy
>> Former name: xxx
>> My ASF Apache Userid: user_x
>> 
>> Thank You
>> 
>> yyy
>> 
>> 
> 
> Craig L Russell
> clr@apache.org
>