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Posted to axkit-dev@xml.apache.org by Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org> on 2006/08/17 01:58:28 UTC
Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
I need a few +1s to put up a download for AxKit2.
Voters are:
kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
Matt.
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org>.
On 17-Aug-06, at 3:50 PM, Steffen Schwigon wrote:
> Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org> writes:
>> We're in the process of migrating AxKit into the Perl PMC
>
> Does that mean AxKit goes away from Apache.org?
No. The Perl PMC is just another branch of apache.org. It currently
hosts the mod_perl project and the Apache::Test project.
> In the meantime I think this would be a Good Thing, assuming that
> would mean much less bureaucracy. (I can't imagine there is still such
> a thing like a voting for a release in the current open source world.)
All Apache projects have to do it. It provides oversight for when
there might be an issue with a release.
> I would like to see it *much* more open, with a public repository with
> *easy* committer bits that some (> 1) core people can give out to
> everyone with the slightest interest.
>
> I fear, once Matt has less time again, like it happened in the last
> years, AxKit will be dead again before you can say Blueberry pie.
>
> With more open policies, people with tuits like Tom Schindl could had
> driven it easier forward in the meantime, instead of forking the
> already tenderly progressing project. (Driven forward regardless of
> the direction -- every direction were better than stagnancy.)
Honestly if people had come forward with patches or offers of help
then they would have been given committer bits. The truth is that Tom
came to the party very late anyway, after all of us were much busier
on other things, and rather than patches to the current system he
just had a whole new one, which as you can imagine is a lot harder to
take in and examine than just patches.
If there's some way we can be more open and give out committer bits
more freely then I'm open to ideas, but I still think a committer bit
requires some sort of effort to patch/commit before we give it out.
And as everyone knows my favourite saying is "Patches welcome" ;-)
Matt.
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Steffen Schwigon <sc...@webit.de>.
Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org> writes:
> We're in the process of migrating AxKit into the Perl PMC
Does that mean AxKit goes away from Apache.org?
In the meantime I think this would be a Good Thing, assuming that
would mean much less bureaucracy. (I can't imagine there is still such
a thing like a voting for a release in the current open source world.)
I would like to see it *much* more open, with a public repository with
*easy* committer bits that some (> 1) core people can give out to
everyone with the slightest interest.
I fear, once Matt has less time again, like it happened in the last
years, AxKit will be dead again before you can say Blueberry pie.
With more open policies, people with tuits like Tom Schindl could had
driven it easier forward in the meantime, instead of forking the
already tenderly progressing project. (Driven forward regardless of
the direction -- every direction were better than stagnancy.)
IMHO the problem with AxKit is its central, pyramid-like development
organization. Probably Apache bureaucracy encourages such structures,
that's why I consider it as deprecated in times where other projects
fly with hyperspeed and zero bureaucracy.
***
Of course I'm just a lurker and did nothing for AxKit besides trying
out and propagating it a bit, so feel free to ignore me. :-)
GreetinX
Steffen
--
Steffen Schwigon <sc...@webit.de>
Dresden Perl Mongers <http://dresden-pm.org/>
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org>.
On 16-Aug-06, at 8:44 PM, Robin Berjon wrote:
>> kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
>
> Not to bring up anything political, but should we reorganise a bit
> here? Barries, jwalt, and mach have been AWOL for a very long time
> by now. Don't get me wrong, I love those guys and I would be
> overjoyed to see them show up here or on IRC, but even though we
> vote close to never shouldn't we renew the committing roster? Those
> folks (unless they show up and disagree of course) could be
> removed, and we could add a couple of others.
Absolutely. We're in the process of migrating AxKit into the Perl PMC
(rather than the XML PMC, which has no real oversight any more). Once
that happens we'll review that, but moving to a new PMC is easier if
we do it wholesale rather than saying "we'll take commiters A, D, X,
and Q with us".
Matt.
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Robin Berjon <ro...@expway.fr>.
On Aug 17, 2006, at 14:30, Jörg Walter wrote:
> I'm here as always. Not on IRC, since it simply distracts too much
> for a toow
> low information factor. But I read the MLs, I still maintain one
> AxKit site
> and already have a new project in queue which will use AxKit2.
It's nice to hear from you, you should send postcards once in a while :)
--
Robin Berjon
Senior Research Scientist
Expway, http://expway.com/
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Jörg Walter <jw...@garni.ch>.
On Thursday, 17. August 2006 02:44, Robin Berjon wrote:
> On Aug 17, 2006, at 01:58, Matt Sergeant wrote:
> > I need a few +1s to put up a download for AxKit2.
>
> Quite obviously AFAIC: +1.
>
> > kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
>
> Not to bring up anything political, but should we reorganise a bit
> here? Barries, jwalt, and mach have been AWOL for a very long time by
> now. Don't get me wrong, I love those guys and I would be overjoyed
> to see them show up here or on IRC, but even though we vote close to
> never shouldn't we renew the committing roster? Those folks (unless
> they show up and disagree of course) could be removed, and we could
> add a couple of others.
I'm here as always. Not on IRC, since it simply distracts too much for a toow
low information factor. But I read the MLs, I still maintain one AxKit site
and already have a new project in queue which will use AxKit2.
--
CU
Jörg
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Robin Berjon <ro...@expway.fr>.
On Aug 17, 2006, at 01:58, Matt Sergeant wrote:
> I need a few +1s to put up a download for AxKit2.
Quite obviously AFAIC: +1.
> kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
Not to bring up anything political, but should we reorganise a bit
here? Barries, jwalt, and mach have been AWOL for a very long time by
now. Don't get me wrong, I love those guys and I would be overjoyed
to see them show up here or on IRC, but even though we vote close to
never shouldn't we renew the committing roster? Those folks (unless
they show up and disagree of course) could be removed, and we could
add a couple of others.
--
Robin Berjon
Senior Research Scientist
Expway, http://expway.com/
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Mike Chamberlain <mi...@btinternet.com>.
+1
On 17 Aug 2006, at 00:58, Matt Sergeant wrote:
> I need a few +1s to put up a download for AxKit2.
>
> Voters are:
>
> kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
>
> Matt.
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Jörg Walter <jw...@garni.ch>.
On Thursday, 17. August 2006 01:58, Matt Sergeant wrote:
> I need a few +1s to put up a download for AxKit2.
>
> Voters are:
>
> kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
>
> Matt.
+1 here, too
--
CU
Jörg
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Michael Nachbaur <mi...@nachbaur.com>.
+1 here.
On Aug 16, 2006, at 4:58 PM, Matt Sergeant wrote:
> I need a few +1s to put up a download for AxKit2.
>
> Voters are:
>
> kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
>
> Matt.
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Tom Schindl <li...@bestsolution.at>.
Matt Sergeant schrieb:
> On 17-Aug-06, at 3:05 PM, Steffen Schwigon wrote:
>
>> Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org> writes:
>>> I need a few +1s to put up a download for AxKit2.
>>>
>>> Voters are:
>>>
>>> kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
>>
>> Just for the list lurkers, what's the relationship
>> between AxKit2 and TomKit? Is there any?
>
> There isn't really any.
>
Right. Beside the fact that I was inspired by AxKits concept of
providers, processors, ... .
> TomKit was born out of Tom's frustration that we had made no progress
> porting AxKit to Apache2/mod_perl2. He offered it as a potential base
> for us to start with. As yet TomKit has no configuration directives
> (probably the hardest part of a port), and no XSP, and the API for
> everything is different to AxKit1.
>
Right we (my company) decided at one point in time to switch all our
servers to Apache2 and didn't wanted to maintain a apache1 sitting
behind our apaches only for AxKit and because I'm not a C-guru at least
I didn't wanted to learn the Apache-Internals to port AxKit1 straight to
Apache2.
Well what do you mean with configuration directives? What I'm using for
now to configure Apache2::TomKit is PerlSetVar and PerlAddVar in future
versions I'll also provide those things as configuration directives
which shouldn't be that hard than it was in Apache1 because mod-perl
provides hooks for it.
At the moment many of the AxKit-Directives have no counter parts because
I didn't needed them for now in my own projects but in the end all
AxKit-Directives should have counter parts in Apache2::TomKit.
XSP is not part of Apache2::TomKit because I was and will maybe never
been a friend of it and didn't had the feeling to port it to
Apache2::TomKit or in other words it's on my priority list at a very
very low level.
I agree that to make it easy for people to port their applications it is
needed but I have to plan where my few spare minutes are going to.
Why I decided to create a new API is that I wasn't happy with the one of
AxKit and I doesn't liked the mixture between Object-Oriented stuff and
normal perl-code if I remember correctly but I could be wrong here.
Nevertheless it's heavily inspired by it and porting modules for example
processors is not really hard as yanick demonstrated by porting
XPathScript to Apache2::TomKit
(http://search.cpan.org/src/YANICK/XML-XPathScript-1.45/lib_tomkit/Apache2/TomKit/Processor/XPathScript.pm).
> AxKit2 was born out of my desire to build a perl httpd that scales, plus
> build the AxKit2 that I wanted given my experiences with AxKit1. It
> ended up that what I really wanted was a trivial way to say "Do some
> XSP, then some XSLT on the result" and "Cache this thing", but in perl,
> without any magic.
This was also my intention no C-Magic, ... . Most distribution come
already with an apache with mod-perl enabled. Apache2::TomKit is running
everywhere mp2 is available which means >Apache-2.0.49 and
Apache-2.2.x with all mod-perls released after the namespace switch
(sorry RHEL customers). The main reason for me to provide
Apache2::TomKit on top of MP2 is that one day I want to use
Apache2::TomKit as the presentation frontend to an
Content-Management-System of my choice even if it's written in php,
python, perl, ruby, ... .
>
> The beauty of this approach is that I figure it won't be long until
> someone comes along and builds an AxKit1-a-like using the AxKit2 API.
> But hardcore users will still have the low level stuff to make it do
> what they want.
>
> Hope that helps. Feel free to ask more questions.
>
>
I think AxKit2 and Apache2::TomKit coexists nicely together where both
have the same focus see Matt's and my intention to create AxKit2 and
Apache2::TomKit. That's why we are discussing all aspects also in this
mailing list at least this was the consensus the last time we discussed
it and I think this hasn't changed.
Tom
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org>.
On 17-Aug-06, at 3:05 PM, Steffen Schwigon wrote:
> Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org> writes:
>> I need a few +1s to put up a download for AxKit2.
>>
>> Voters are:
>>
>> kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
>
> Just for the list lurkers, what's the relationship
> between AxKit2 and TomKit? Is there any?
There isn't really any.
TomKit was born out of Tom's frustration that we had made no progress
porting AxKit to Apache2/mod_perl2. He offered it as a potential base
for us to start with. As yet TomKit has no configuration directives
(probably the hardest part of a port), and no XSP, and the API for
everything is different to AxKit1.
AxKit2 was born out of my desire to build a perl httpd that scales,
plus build the AxKit2 that I wanted given my experiences with AxKit1.
It ended up that what I really wanted was a trivial way to say "Do
some XSP, then some XSLT on the result" and "Cache this thing", but
in perl, without any magic.
The beauty of this approach is that I figure it won't be long until
someone comes along and builds an AxKit1-a-like using the AxKit2 API.
But hardcore users will still have the low level stuff to make it do
what they want.
Hope that helps. Feel free to ask more questions.
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Steffen Schwigon <sc...@webit.de>.
Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org> writes:
> I need a few +1s to put up a download for AxKit2.
>
> Voters are:
>
> kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
Just for the list lurkers, what's the relationship
between AxKit2 and TomKit? Is there any?
GreetinX
Steffen
--
Steffen Schwigon <sc...@webit.de>
Dresden Perl Mongers <http://dresden-pm.org/>
Re: Please vote on doing a beta (alpha?) release.
Posted by Kip Hampton <kh...@totalcinema.com>.
+1
Matt Sergeant wrote:
> I need a few +1s to put up a download for AxKit2.
>
> Voters are:
>
> kip, darobin, barries, jwalt, mach, nachbaur
>
> Matt.
>
> .
>