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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com> on 2012/05/18 09:24:43 UTC
[UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Hello All,
I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience
community. Watch
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor
updates.
If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then
AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you
UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto
sign up.
AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
design our future products.
Regards,
Kevin
AOO User Experience Design
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Rod Lockwood <ro...@provide.net>.
And the other link is supposed to be:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members
On Fri, 18 May 2012 05:38:39 -0400, Kevin Grignon
<ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Niall,
>
> Thanks for your note and interest in UX.
>
> Interesting. Which link is causing trouble.
>
> Try:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience
>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Niall Martin
> <ni...@rndmartin.cix.co.uk>wrote:
>
>> Page apparently not yet ready for use, and seems to be in Italian.
>>
>> On 18 May 2012 at 15:24, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>>
>> Send reply to: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 18 May 2012 15:24:43 +0800
>> Subject: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
>> From: Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org, ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
>>
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> > I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user
>> > experience community. Watch
>> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experi
>> > encefor updates.
>> >
>> > If you're passionate about designing and developing great software,
>> > then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and
>> > share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
>> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community
>> > _Membersto sign up.
>> >
>> > AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
>> > their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
>> > design our future products.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Kevin
>> >
>> > AOO User Experience Design
>> >
>>
>>
>> Niall Martin
>> Phone 0131 4678468
>> Please reply to: niall<at>rndmartin.cix.co.uk
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ooo-users-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: ooo-users-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
--
Later Sincerely,
Rod Lockwood
Rod’s Rants
Rod’s Belfry
Victorian Cosmos
My Facebook profile
webmaster, Pokémon Dungeon (White Phoenix)
founder, Gomorra Town Hall on Facebook
WhitePhoenix on IRC Chat
WhitePhoenixUS on YouTube and just about everywhere else
Support your local and online small businesses!
Feed the Pig.
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
Niall,
Thanks for your note and interest in UX.
Interesting. Which link is causing trouble.
Try:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience
Regards,
Kevin
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Niall Martin <ni...@rndmartin.cix.co.uk>wrote:
> Page apparently not yet ready for use, and seems to be in Italian.
>
> On 18 May 2012 at 15:24, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>
> Send reply to: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
> Date sent: Fri, 18 May 2012 15:24:43 +0800
> Subject: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
> From: Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org, ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user
> > experience community. Watch
> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experi
> > encefor updates.
> >
> > If you're passionate about designing and developing great software,
> > then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and
> > share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community
> > _Membersto sign up.
> >
> > AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
> > their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
> > design our future products.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
> >
> > AOO User Experience Design
> >
>
>
> Niall Martin
> Phone 0131 4678468
> Please reply to: niall<at>rndmartin.cix.co.uk
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ooo-users-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: ooo-users-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Niall Martin <ni...@rndmartin.cix.co.uk>.
Page apparently not yet ready for use, and seems to be in Italian.
On 18 May 2012 at 15:24, Kevin Grignon wrote:
Send reply to: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
Date sent: Fri, 18 May 2012 15:24:43 +0800
Subject: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
From: Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org, ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
> Hello All,
>
> I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user
> experience community. Watch
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experi
> encefor updates.
>
> If you're passionate about designing and developing great software,
> then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and
> share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community
> _Membersto sign up.
>
> AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
> their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
> design our future products.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
> AOO User Experience Design
>
Niall Martin
Phone 0131 4678468
Please reply to: niall<at>rndmartin.cix.co.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ooo-users-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: ooo-users-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
Erik,
I think that some extra text was included in your URL.
Kevin
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you. I get it. The second page should be
>
>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Yong Lin Ma,
> >
> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience
> >
> > Try to open the page above.
> > :)
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This is a good start.
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon
> >> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hello All,
> >>>
> >>> I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user
> experience
> >>> community. Watch
> >>>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor
> >>> updates.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English
> characters.
> >>
> >>> If you're passionate about designing and developing great software,
> then
> >>> AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share
> you
> >>> UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
> >>>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto
> >>> sign up.
> >>>
> >>> AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
> >>> their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
> >>> design our future products.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Kevin
> >>>
> >>> AOO User Experience Design
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Erik Ma
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > khirano@apache.org
> > Apache OpenOffice (incubating)
> > http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>
>
>
> --
> Erik Ma
>
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
Jurgen,
Thanks for your note.
While I agree that such a list may not scale, nor accurately reflect the
broader contribution, there is much to do, and little structure is in place.
The UX list is simply an attempt to build some momentum, and get an idea of
who is interested in reaching in and working on some UX-specific tasks.
I should note that by "community members", I mean people who are keen on
working on AOO UX tasks. It was suggested recently, that the term "team"
should not be used in such contexts.
Let's try it out. It is low cost, and it will help the UX program get up
and running.
Regards,
Kevin
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Jürgen Schmidt
<jo...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>
>> Erik,
>>
>> Good stuff. Will do.
>>
>
> do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't
> think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
>
> I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and
> don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the
> different areas will be also different and will change from time to time.
>
> Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
> potentially misleading.
>
> We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't
> reflect the current situation in the project.
>
> In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated
> very fast.
>
> Just my 2 ct
>
> Juergen
>
>
>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Yong Lin Ma<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> May I suggest remove the "Affiliation" column in member page? People
>>> can talk about that in "About me" if they like.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you. I get it. The second page should be
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_**
>>> Experience_Community_Members<http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano<kh...@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Yong Lin Ma,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_**
>>> OpenOffice_User_Experience<http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Try to open the page above.
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma<ma...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a good start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon
>>>>>> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> experience
>>>
>>>> community. Watch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_**
>>> OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor<http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor>
>>>
>>>> updates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English
>>>>>>
>>>>> characters.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> If you're passionate about designing and developing great software,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> then
>>>
>>>> AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> you
>>>
>>>> UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_**
>>> Experience_Community_Membersto<http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto>
>>>
>>>> sign up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
>>>>>>> design our future products.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AOO User Experience Design
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Erik Ma
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> khirano@apache.org
>>>>> Apache OpenOffice (incubating)
>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/<http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Erik Ma
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Erik Ma
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Albino Biasutti Neto <bi...@gmail.com>.
Hi.
2012/5/24 Paulo de Souza Lima <pa...@varekai.org>
> I think I got your point. You're right. There's no need to identify some
> people as a "group". But, in fact, there are some "groups", for example,
> the "infra group", "cws group", "brazilian volunteers group", "italian
> volunteers group", and so on. That's because it's needed some admin rights
> to do their tasks, or because regional identification, not because they are
> separated groups. Giving my opinion in this list, I'm giving it
> individually and not in the name of the "groups" I can identify myself to.
> At least, I understand this way. Correct me If I understood it wrong.
>
>
+1
2012/5/24 Yong Lin Ma <ma...@apache.org>
> The bar for UX design of such a
> product is very low.
The prefix UX is but obvious and organized to know what the interest and
subject of the email.
Albino
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Saturday, May 26, 2012, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Kevin Grignon <
> kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com <javascript:;>>wrote:
> >
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> Thanks for input.
> >>
> >> Here is what I understand the community is saying:
> >>
> >> AOO community = team
> >> [UX] = mailing list topic prefix
> >> User experience - design and development topic related to the end user
> >> experience
> >> People who contribute to user experience activities - a self-selected
> group
> >> of individuals working on a common user experience- related tasks for a
> >> period
> >> of time
> >> Pronoun "I" is preferred to "we"
> >>
> >> Got it. This makes sense.
> >>
> >> I'm still adapting to the "Apache" way. I appreciated the ongoing
> feedback
> >> and guidance.
> >>
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> > I think you've got it! Yes, Apache is much flatter structure than what
> you
> > (many of us) were used to previously. The major advantage that I have
> found
> > is that everyone gets to know what everyone else is working on. It may
> seem
> > daunting at times, but it has a lot of advantages -- mutual decision
> making
> > giving everyone a say, no surprise actions by one group over another.
> >
>
> One way to think of it: the "natural" evolution of a "team" is to
> start with common interests, then to form a self-identity around that
> common interest and team, an "us" versus "them" world view, then for a
> formal leadership hierarchy to arise to "manage" and coordinate the
> various boxes. This is a common structure that we see throughout the
> world, from armies to corporations to governments to religions. The
> legacy OpenOffice.org project did this as well, and to support it had
> hundreds of mailing lists for the various projects, its councils and
> steering committees, its designated leads and deputies, etc.
>
> On the one hand this is a very efficient way of doing this, if
> efficiency is the primary goal. It is also great for those who get in
> "on the ground floor". For initial stakeholders, who get embedded in
> leadership positions, this is a wonderful model. But I think it shows
> more tensions as the project grows, and more people join, and their
> goals conflict with the views of the legacy leaders. A hierarchical
> organization is challenged when dealing with this. And I think such
> organizations are also challenged with developing innovation.
>
> KG01
Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.
Regards,
Kevin
> In any case, self-identification is not a bad thing. I think it is
> great to say "I am focused on Foo". The risk comes when I try to draw
> a box around a group of individuals and say "We are the Foo team", and
> by implication the others in the project are not, or their opinions
> are less valued in these matters, or they are consulted less, etc.
>
> Now this does not mean that there are not de facto leaders and de
> facto teams. Everyone knows who has the greatest expertise on the
> website, or the download scripts. But no one has a title of "web
> master" or "distribution lead". It comes from "taking the lead".
>
> So I would not be surprised if there is a small group of contributors
> who develop the reputation for being UX experts and whose guidance is
> automatically sought on related issues. In fact this is happening
> already. But this can occur without designating teams or team leads,
> drawing boxes around groups of individuals, etc.
>
> -Rob
>
>
> > UX is of course critical to the success of Apache OpenOffice, so I think
> > you'll find everyone here has an interest in this topic whether they
> > participate in the UX discussions a lot or a little.
> >
> >
> >> Regards,
> >> Kevin
> >> A contributor to the self-selected group of individuals working on a
> number
> >> of common user experience-related tasks for the next little while :)
> >>
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thursday, May 24, 2012, Yong Lin Ma wrote:
> >>
> >> > Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are
> >> > experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need
> >> > other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a
> >> > product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant
> >> > ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good
> >> > ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that
> >> > people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into
> >> > endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like
> >> > that, if we a decision must be made in the end.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima
> >> > <pa...@varekai.org> wrote:
> >> > > 2012/5/24 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
> >> > >
> >> > >> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon
> >> > >> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt <
> >> > >> jogischmidt@googlemail.com
> >> > >> >> wrote:
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >> Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> >> > >> >> > 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > > Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza
> Lima:
> >> > >> >> > > > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> >> > >> >> > > >
> >> > >> >> > > > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> >> > >> >> > > > >
> >> > >> >> > > > > > Erik,
> >> > >> >> > > > > >
> >> > >> >> > > > > > Good stuff. Will do.
> >> > >> >> > > > >
> >> > >> >> > > > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community
> >> > >> members? I
> >> > >> >> > > don't
> >> > >> >> > > > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong
> >> > direction.
> >> > >> >> > > >
> >> > >> >> > > >
> >> > >> >> > > >
> >> > >> >> > > > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call
> UX
> >> a
> >> > >> >> > > "community".
> >> > >> >> > > > I would call it a "team".
> >> > >> >> > > >
> >> > >> >> > > >
> >> > >> >> > > > >
> >> > >> >> > > > > I am personally interested in many different areas of
> the
> >> > >> project
> >> > >> >> and
> >> > >> >> > > > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My
> >> > contribution
> >> > >> in
> >> > >> >> the
> >> > >> >> > > > > different areas will be also different and will change
> from
> >> > >> time to
> >>
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Thanks for input.
>>
>> Here is what I understand the community is saying:
>>
>> AOO community = team
>> [UX] = mailing list topic prefix
>> User experience - design and development topic related to the end user
>> experience
>> People who contribute to user experience activities - a self-selected group
>> of individuals working on a common user experience- related tasks for a
>> period
>> of time
>> Pronoun "I" is preferred to "we"
>>
>> Got it. This makes sense.
>>
>> I'm still adapting to the "Apache" way. I appreciated the ongoing feedback
>> and guidance.
>>
>
> Kevin,
>
> I think you've got it! Yes, Apache is much flatter structure than what you
> (many of us) were used to previously. The major advantage that I have found
> is that everyone gets to know what everyone else is working on. It may seem
> daunting at times, but it has a lot of advantages -- mutual decision making
> giving everyone a say, no surprise actions by one group over another.
>
One way to think of it: the "natural" evolution of a "team" is to
start with common interests, then to form a self-identity around that
common interest and team, an "us" versus "them" world view, then for a
formal leadership hierarchy to arise to "manage" and coordinate the
various boxes. This is a common structure that we see throughout the
world, from armies to corporations to governments to religions. The
legacy OpenOffice.org project did this as well, and to support it had
hundreds of mailing lists for the various projects, its councils and
steering committees, its designated leads and deputies, etc.
On the one hand this is a very efficient way of doing this, if
efficiency is the primary goal. It is also great for those who get in
"on the ground floor". For initial stakeholders, who get embedded in
leadership positions, this is a wonderful model. But I think it shows
more tensions as the project grows, and more people join, and their
goals conflict with the views of the legacy leaders. A hierarchical
organization is challenged when dealing with this. And I think such
organizations are also challenged with developing innovation.
In any case, self-identification is not a bad thing. I think it is
great to say "I am focused on Foo". The risk comes when I try to draw
a box around a group of individuals and say "We are the Foo team", and
by implication the others in the project are not, or their opinions
are less valued in these matters, or they are consulted less, etc.
Now this does not mean that there are not de facto leaders and de
facto teams. Everyone knows who has the greatest expertise on the
website, or the download scripts. But no one has a title of "web
master" or "distribution lead". It comes from "taking the lead".
So I would not be surprised if there is a small group of contributors
who develop the reputation for being UX experts and whose guidance is
automatically sought on related issues. In fact this is happening
already. But this can occur without designating teams or team leads,
drawing boxes around groups of individuals, etc.
-Rob
> UX is of course critical to the success of Apache OpenOffice, so I think
> you'll find everyone here has an interest in this topic whether they
> participate in the UX discussions a lot or a little.
>
>
>> Regards,
>> Kevin
>> A contributor to the self-selected group of individuals working on a number
>> of common user experience-related tasks for the next little while :)
>>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, May 24, 2012, Yong Lin Ma wrote:
>>
>> > Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are
>> > experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need
>> > other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a
>> > product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant
>> > ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good
>> > ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that
>> > people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into
>> > endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like
>> > that, if we a decision must be made in the end.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima
>> > <pa...@varekai.org> wrote:
>> > > 2012/5/24 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>> > >
>> > >> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon
>> > >> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt <
>> > >> jogischmidt@googlemail.com
>> > >> >> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
>> > >> >> > 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > > Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
>> > >> >> > > > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>> > >> >> > > > >
>> > >> >> > > > > > Erik,
>> > >> >> > > > > >
>> > >> >> > > > > > Good stuff. Will do.
>> > >> >> > > > >
>> > >> >> > > > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community
>> > >> members? I
>> > >> >> > > don't
>> > >> >> > > > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong
>> > direction.
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX
>> a
>> > >> >> > > "community".
>> > >> >> > > > I would call it a "team".
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > > >
>> > >> >> > > > > I am personally interested in many different areas of the
>> > >> project
>> > >> >> and
>> > >> >> > > > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My
>> > contribution
>> > >> in
>> > >> >> the
>> > >> >> > > > > different areas will be also different and will change from
>> > >> time to
>> > >> >> > > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > >
>> > >> >> > > time.
>> > >> >> > > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > > If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are
>> > free to
>> > >> >> decide
>> > >> >> > > > if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't
>> > see a
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > >
>> > >> >> > > problem
>> > >> >> > > > with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I
>> > would
>> > >> >> like to
>> > >> >> > > > place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the
>> > >> user's
>> > >> >> point
>> > >> >> > > > of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they
>> have.
>> > >> And
>> > >> >> a new
>> > >> >> > > > contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the
>> UX
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > >
>> > >> >> > > activities
>> > >> >> > > > (and others too) should be able to identify who else is
>> > involved.
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > > >
>> > >> >> > > > > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work
>> and
>> > is
>> > >> >> > > > > potentially misleading.
>> > >> >> > > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > >
>> > >> >> > > > Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is
>> > doing
>> > >> the
>> > >> >> job,
>> > >> >> > > > but it gives a clue. It would be worst
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."
> -- Mark Twain
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Thanks for input.
>
> Here is what I understand the community is saying:
>
> AOO community = team
> [UX] = mailing list topic prefix
> User experience - design and development topic related to the end user
> experience
> People who contribute to user experience activities - a self-selected group
> of individuals working on a common user experience- related tasks for a
> period
> of time
> Pronoun "I" is preferred to "we"
>
> Got it. This makes sense.
>
> I'm still adapting to the "Apache" way. I appreciated the ongoing feedback
> and guidance.
>
Kevin,
I think you've got it! Yes, Apache is much flatter structure than what you
(many of us) were used to previously. The major advantage that I have found
is that everyone gets to know what everyone else is working on. It may seem
daunting at times, but it has a lot of advantages -- mutual decision making
giving everyone a say, no surprise actions by one group over another.
UX is of course critical to the success of Apache OpenOffice, so I think
you'll find everyone here has an interest in this topic whether they
participate in the UX discussions a lot or a little.
> Regards,
> Kevin
> A contributor to the self-selected group of individuals working on a number
> of common user experience-related tasks for the next little while :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 24, 2012, Yong Lin Ma wrote:
>
> > Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are
> > experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need
> > other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a
> > product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant
> > ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good
> > ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that
> > people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into
> > endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like
> > that, if we a decision must be made in the end.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima
> > <pa...@varekai.org> wrote:
> > > 2012/5/24 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
> > >
> > >> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon
> > >> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt <
> > >> jogischmidt@googlemail.com
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> > >> >> > 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > > Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> > >> >> > > > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > > Erik,
> > >> >> > > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > > Good stuff. Will do.
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community
> > >> members? I
> > >> >> > > don't
> > >> >> > > > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong
> > direction.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX
> a
> > >> >> > > "community".
> > >> >> > > > I would call it a "team".
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > I am personally interested in many different areas of the
> > >> project
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> > > > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My
> > contribution
> > >> in
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> > > > > different areas will be also different and will change from
> > >> time to
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > time.
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are
> > free to
> > >> >> decide
> > >> >> > > > if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't
> > see a
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > problem
> > >> >> > > > with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I
> > would
> > >> >> like to
> > >> >> > > > place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the
> > >> user's
> > >> >> point
> > >> >> > > > of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they
> have.
> > >> And
> > >> >> a new
> > >> >> > > > contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the
> UX
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > activities
> > >> >> > > > (and others too) should be able to identify who else is
> > involved.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work
> and
> > is
> > >> >> > > > > potentially misleading.
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is
> > doing
> > >> the
> > >> >> job,
> > >> >> > > > but it gives a clue. It would be worst
>
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."
-- Mark Twain
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
Hello all,
Thanks for input.
Here is what I understand the community is saying:
AOO community = team
[UX] = mailing list topic prefix
User experience - design and development topic related to the end user
experience
People who contribute to user experience activities - a self-selected group
of individuals working on a common user experience- related tasks for a period
of time
Pronoun "I" is preferred to "we"
Got it. This makes sense.
I'm still adapting to the "Apache" way. I appreciated the ongoing feedback
and guidance.
Regards,
Kevin
A contributor to the self-selected group of individuals working on a number
of common user experience-related tasks for the next little while :)
On Thursday, May 24, 2012, Yong Lin Ma wrote:
> Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are
> experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need
> other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a
> product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant
> ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good
> ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that
> people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into
> endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like
> that, if we a decision must be made in the end.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima
> <pa...@varekai.org> wrote:
> > 2012/5/24 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
> >
> >> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon
> >> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt <
> >> jogischmidt@googlemail.com
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> >> >> > 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> >> >> > > > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > Erik,
> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> > > > > > Good stuff. Will do.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community
> >> members? I
> >> >> > > don't
> >> >> > > > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong
> direction.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a
> >> >> > > "community".
> >> >> > > > I would call it a "team".
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > I am personally interested in many different areas of the
> >> project
> >> >> and
> >> >> > > > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My
> contribution
> >> in
> >> >> the
> >> >> > > > > different areas will be also different and will change from
> >> time to
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > time.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are
> free to
> >> >> decide
> >> >> > > > if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't
> see a
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > problem
> >> >> > > > with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I
> would
> >> >> like to
> >> >> > > > place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the
> >> user's
> >> >> point
> >> >> > > > of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have.
> >> And
> >> >> a new
> >> >> > > > contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > activities
> >> >> > > > (and others too) should be able to identify who else is
> involved.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and
> is
> >> >> > > > > potentially misleading.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is
> doing
> >> the
> >> >> job,
> >> >> > > > but it gives a clue. It would be worst
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Yong Lin Ma <ma...@apache.org>.
Whatever it is named, I think it is good for people who are
experienced in UX design identify themselves out here. Designers need
other's help to implement their ideas. The bar for UX design of such a
product is very low. Everyone can have its own opinions or brilliant
ideas. But it is also easy to mess up a product by combining many good
ideas together. If things going well, there will be situations that
people get different opinions about a ux change and the fall into
endless discussion. I would trust UX designer's choice in case like
that, if we a decision must be made in the end.
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima
<pa...@varekai.org> wrote:
> 2012/5/24 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>
>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon
>> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt <
>> jogischmidt@googlemail.com
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
>> >> > 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > > Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
>> >> > > > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > > Erik,
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > Good stuff. Will do.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community
>> members? I
>> >> > > don't
>> >> > > > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a
>> >> > > "community".
>> >> > > > I would call it a "team".
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > I am personally interested in many different areas of the
>> project
>> >> and
>> >> > > > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution
>> in
>> >> the
>> >> > > > > different areas will be also different and will change from
>> time to
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > time.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to
>> >> decide
>> >> > > > if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > problem
>> >> > > > with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would
>> >> like to
>> >> > > > place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the
>> user's
>> >> point
>> >> > > > of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have.
>> And
>> >> a new
>> >> > > > contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > activities
>> >> > > > (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
>> >> > > > > potentially misleading.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing
>> the
>> >> job,
>> >> > > > but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about
>> >> that.
>> >> > > > And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's
>> matter
>> >> of
>> >> > > > creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can
>> >> drive
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > his
>> >> > > > task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you an
>> >> example we
>> >> > > > done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me
>> >> and
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Raul
>> >> > > > are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations
>> page
>> >> which
>> >> > > > is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too.
>> When
>> >> > > > finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it,
>> >> submit
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > it
>> >> > > > for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every
>> contributor
>> >> > >
>> >> > > will
>> >> > > > be recorded.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a
>> >> community/team
>> >> > > page
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, As I told before, I would not call it a "community". I would
>> call
>> >> it
>> >> > a "team" or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX "Guys" sounds
>> better
>> >> =)
>> >> >
>> >> > How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki
>> maintenance,
>> >> > for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones.
>> I
>> >> > couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton
>> questioned
>> >> me
>> >> > about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last
>> >> > editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his
>> >> > discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out
>> >> that
>> >> > TJ and Adailton are the "wiki guys". But this information was not
>> >> anywhere
>> >> > in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing
>> what?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki
>> as I
>> >> > > have
>> >> > > > asked for some days ago.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is
>> the
>> >> > > relation to a people page?
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the
>> >> last
>> >> > 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it
>> >> > getting information from other systems, like CMS.
>> >> > Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a
>> good
>> >> > ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask.
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > We have already a general project page with project members that
>> >> > > doesn't
>> >> > > > > reflect the current situation in the project.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general"
>> for
>> >> the
>> >> > > > average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO
>> >> users,
>> >> > > > instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find
>> what
>> >> they
>> >> > > > want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill
>> an
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > issue
>> >> > > > in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's
>> >> worst
>> >> > >
>> >> > > for
>> >> > > > those who can't read/write in English.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It
>> >> would
>> >> > > be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us
>> >> think
>> >> > > about such improvements. The same for documentation.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > But do think that a page with some names will change anything here?
>> >> >
>> >> > It depends on who are managing that page.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get
>> >> > > outdated
>> >> > > > > very fast.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > My personal/professional experience points to another direction.
>> If
>> >> UX
>> >> > > has
>> >> > > > enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will
>> >> take
>> >> > > > care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic
>> >> people
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > at
>> >> > > > this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if
>> UX
>> >> > > > couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX
>> >> should
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > be
>> >> > > > the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down
>> very
>> >> > >
>> >> > > quickly.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I agree and it is and will not be easy, In the end the work have to
>> be
>> >> > > done. That means that people have to convince other people from
>> their
>> >> > > ideas. Especially when people are not able to implement it on their
>> >> own.
>> >> > > The better an idea is described and sold the better is the chance
>> that
>> >> > > somebody will implement it.
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I am preparing a little sample. If Mediawiki can be upgraded and the
>> >> > extensions I have asked for installed, Iĺl do that in PT-BR section.
>> >> > Otherwise, I'll do that in www.escritoriolivre.org/wiki
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> When you volunteer to help with the wiki please join the infra structure
>> >> mailing list and join the infra IRC channel. Show your expertise there,
>> ask
>> >> people and I am sure you will get the support and the access rights you
>> >> need over time. That's the way how it works at Apache. I did it in the
>> same
>> >> way and got the rights I need for pootle.
>> >>
>> >> Just start doing the update by talking with the infra guys about it.
>> What
>> >> your plans are, what your experience is etc. that you are able to
>> maintain
>> >> the wiki or at least that you are I retested to help...
>> >>
>> >> Juergen
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Juergen
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Paulo de Souza Lima
>> >> > http://almalivre.wordpress.com
>> >> > Curitiba - PR
>> >> > Linux User #432358
>> >> > Ubuntu User #28729
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> > Thanks for interest in UX.
>> >
>> > As for name, I must admit that I'm new to the effort, and the guidance
>> from
>> > PPMC and others, has, well, been subjective and contradictory at best. If
>> > the community wants to establish team/group/sub-community/gang naming
>> > protocols, then please share when available.
>> >
>>
>> It is cultural, but generally there is only one team here: the Apache
>> OpenOffice team, and we're all members of it. There may be a
>> self-selected group of individuals working on a common task for a
>> period of time. But we avoid having that lead to the development of
>> segregated groups or hierarchies. So it grates a bit on my ear to
>> read 'UX will do this", or similar. IMHO just say, "I will do this".
>> We're all contributing as individuals.
>>
>> > For example, we were told to not use the term "team", as is was reserved
>> > for the PPMC "team". Then, we were told not to use community and use
>> > "team". As for UX guys", that is a non-starter for the obvious reasons.
>> >
>>
>> Right. So factually "UX" is a topic, and various individuals are
>> interested in that topic, and this interest will come and go, and
>> change over time due to changes in overall project composition as well
>> as competing priorities.
>>
>> > A key theme was that everyone wanted us not to fragment the broader team
>> or
>> > community - which makes sense. However, we are trying to reinvigorate the
>> > UX effort and could really use your support right now to help us
>> > re-establish ourselves. Diversity is key to the health of the project,
>> it's
>> > OK if some people want to focus on different aspect of the offering.
>> Let's
>> > support each other in their individual pursuits, and work to connect such
>> > activity to the larger community.
>> >
>>
>> This is all good. But it does not require explicit identification as
>> a "team".
>>
>> > We will rename to "UX team", which is easiest and most appropriate. We
>> will
>> > continue to use the [UX] email subject prefix, and only reference UX team
>> > in relation to UX-specific task assignments.
>> >
>>
>> Who is "we"?
>>
>
>
> I think I got your point. You're right. There's no need to identify some
> people as a "group". But, in fact, there are some "groups", for example,
> the "infra group", "cws group", "brazilian volunteers group", "italian
> volunteers group", and so on. That's because it's needed some admin rights
> to do their tasks, or because regional identification, not because they are
> separated groups. Giving my opinion in this list, I'm giving it
> individually and not in the name of the "groups" I can identify myself to.
> At least, I understand this way. Correct me If I understood it wrong.
>
> So, I think those interested in work in UX continue to manifest their
> opinions and let's move on, right? =)
>
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > Regards,
>> > Kevin
>>
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Paulo de Souza Lima
> http://almalivre.wordpress.com
> Curitiba - PR
> Linux User #432358
> Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Paulo de Souza Lima <pa...@varekai.org>.
2012/5/24 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon
> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt <
> jogischmidt@googlemail.com
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> >> > 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> >> >
> >> > > Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> >> > > > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > Erik,
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Good stuff. Will do.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community
> members? I
> >> > > don't
> >> > > > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a
> >> > > "community".
> >> > > > I would call it a "team".
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I am personally interested in many different areas of the
> project
> >> and
> >> > > > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution
> in
> >> the
> >> > > > > different areas will be also different and will change from
> time to
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > time.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to
> >> decide
> >> > > > if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > problem
> >> > > > with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would
> >> like to
> >> > > > place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the
> user's
> >> point
> >> > > > of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have.
> And
> >> a new
> >> > > > contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > activities
> >> > > > (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
> >> > > > > potentially misleading.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing
> the
> >> job,
> >> > > > but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about
> >> that.
> >> > > > And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's
> matter
> >> of
> >> > > > creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can
> >> drive
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > his
> >> > > > task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you an
> >> example we
> >> > > > done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me
> >> and
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Raul
> >> > > > are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations
> page
> >> which
> >> > > > is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too.
> When
> >> > > > finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it,
> >> submit
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > it
> >> > > > for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every
> contributor
> >> > >
> >> > > will
> >> > > > be recorded.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a
> >> community/team
> >> > > page
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Well, As I told before, I would not call it a "community". I would
> call
> >> it
> >> > a "team" or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX "Guys" sounds
> better
> >> =)
> >> >
> >> > How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki
> maintenance,
> >> > for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones.
> I
> >> > couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton
> questioned
> >> me
> >> > about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last
> >> > editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his
> >> > discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out
> >> that
> >> > TJ and Adailton are the "wiki guys". But this information was not
> >> anywhere
> >> > in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing
> what?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki
> as I
> >> > > have
> >> > > > asked for some days ago.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is
> the
> >> > > relation to a people page?
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the
> >> last
> >> > 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it
> >> > getting information from other systems, like CMS.
> >> > Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a
> good
> >> > ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask.
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > We have already a general project page with project members that
> >> > > doesn't
> >> > > > > reflect the current situation in the project.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general"
> for
> >> the
> >> > > > average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO
> >> users,
> >> > > > instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find
> what
> >> they
> >> > > > want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill
> an
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > issue
> >> > > > in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's
> >> worst
> >> > >
> >> > > for
> >> > > > those who can't read/write in English.
> >> > >
> >> > > I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It
> >> would
> >> > > be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us
> >> think
> >> > > about such improvements. The same for documentation.
> >> > >
> >> > > But do think that a page with some names will change anything here?
> >> >
> >> > It depends on who are managing that page.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get
> >> > > outdated
> >> > > > > very fast.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > My personal/professional experience points to another direction.
> If
> >> UX
> >> > > has
> >> > > > enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will
> >> take
> >> > > > care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic
> >> people
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > at
> >> > > > this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if
> UX
> >> > > > couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX
> >> should
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > be
> >> > > > the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down
> very
> >> > >
> >> > > quickly.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > I agree and it is and will not be easy, In the end the work have to
> be
> >> > > done. That means that people have to convince other people from
> their
> >> > > ideas. Especially when people are not able to implement it on their
> >> own.
> >> > > The better an idea is described and sold the better is the chance
> that
> >> > > somebody will implement it.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I am preparing a little sample. If Mediawiki can be upgraded and the
> >> > extensions I have asked for installed, Iĺl do that in PT-BR section.
> >> > Otherwise, I'll do that in www.escritoriolivre.org/wiki
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> When you volunteer to help with the wiki please join the infra structure
> >> mailing list and join the infra IRC channel. Show your expertise there,
> ask
> >> people and I am sure you will get the support and the access rights you
> >> need over time. That's the way how it works at Apache. I did it in the
> same
> >> way and got the rights I need for pootle.
> >>
> >> Just start doing the update by talking with the infra guys about it.
> What
> >> your plans are, what your experience is etc. that you are able to
> maintain
> >> the wiki or at least that you are I retested to help...
> >>
> >> Juergen
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > Juergen
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Paulo de Souza Lima
> >> > http://almalivre.wordpress.com
> >> > Curitiba - PR
> >> > Linux User #432358
> >> > Ubuntu User #28729
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Thanks for interest in UX.
> >
> > As for name, I must admit that I'm new to the effort, and the guidance
> from
> > PPMC and others, has, well, been subjective and contradictory at best. If
> > the community wants to establish team/group/sub-community/gang naming
> > protocols, then please share when available.
> >
>
> It is cultural, but generally there is only one team here: the Apache
> OpenOffice team, and we're all members of it. There may be a
> self-selected group of individuals working on a common task for a
> period of time. But we avoid having that lead to the development of
> segregated groups or hierarchies. So it grates a bit on my ear to
> read 'UX will do this", or similar. IMHO just say, "I will do this".
> We're all contributing as individuals.
>
> > For example, we were told to not use the term "team", as is was reserved
> > for the PPMC "team". Then, we were told not to use community and use
> > "team". As for UX guys", that is a non-starter for the obvious reasons.
> >
>
> Right. So factually "UX" is a topic, and various individuals are
> interested in that topic, and this interest will come and go, and
> change over time due to changes in overall project composition as well
> as competing priorities.
>
> > A key theme was that everyone wanted us not to fragment the broader team
> or
> > community - which makes sense. However, we are trying to reinvigorate the
> > UX effort and could really use your support right now to help us
> > re-establish ourselves. Diversity is key to the health of the project,
> it's
> > OK if some people want to focus on different aspect of the offering.
> Let's
> > support each other in their individual pursuits, and work to connect such
> > activity to the larger community.
> >
>
> This is all good. But it does not require explicit identification as
> a "team".
>
> > We will rename to "UX team", which is easiest and most appropriate. We
> will
> > continue to use the [UX] email subject prefix, and only reference UX team
> > in relation to UX-specific task assignments.
> >
>
> Who is "we"?
>
I think I got your point. You're right. There's no need to identify some
people as a "group". But, in fact, there are some "groups", for example,
the "infra group", "cws group", "brazilian volunteers group", "italian
volunteers group", and so on. That's because it's needed some admin rights
to do their tasks, or because regional identification, not because they are
separated groups. Giving my opinion in this list, I'm giving it
individually and not in the name of the "groups" I can identify myself to.
At least, I understand this way. Correct me If I understood it wrong.
So, I think those interested in work in UX continue to manifest their
opinions and let's move on, right? =)
>
> -Rob
>
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
>
Cheers.
--
Paulo de Souza Lima
http://almalivre.wordpress.com
Curitiba - PR
Linux User #432358
Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon
<ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt <jogischmidt@googlemail.com
>> wrote:
>
>> Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
>> > 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
>> >
>> > > Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
>> > > > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
>> > > >
>> > > > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Erik,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Good stuff. Will do.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I
>> > > don't
>> > > > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a
>> > > "community".
>> > > > I would call it a "team".
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I am personally interested in many different areas of the project
>> and
>> > > > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in
>> the
>> > > > > different areas will be also different and will change from time to
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > time.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to
>> decide
>> > > > if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > problem
>> > > > with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would
>> like to
>> > > > place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's
>> point
>> > > > of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And
>> a new
>> > > > contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > activities
>> > > > (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
>> > > > > potentially misleading.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the
>> job,
>> > > > but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about
>> that.
>> > > > And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter
>> of
>> > > > creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can
>> drive
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > his
>> > > > task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you an
>> example we
>> > > > done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me
>> and
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Raul
>> > > > are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page
>> which
>> > > > is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When
>> > > > finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it,
>> submit
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > it
>> > > > for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor
>> > >
>> > > will
>> > > > be recorded.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a
>> community/team
>> > > page
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > Well, As I told before, I would not call it a "community". I would call
>> it
>> > a "team" or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX "Guys" sounds better
>> =)
>> >
>> > How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance,
>> > for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I
>> > couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned
>> me
>> > about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last
>> > editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his
>> > discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out
>> that
>> > TJ and Adailton are the "wiki guys". But this information was not
>> anywhere
>> > in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what?
>> >
>> >
>> > > >
>> > > > This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I
>> > > have
>> > > > asked for some days ago.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the
>> > > relation to a people page?
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the
>> last
>> > 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it
>> > getting information from other systems, like CMS.
>> > Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good
>> > ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We have already a general project page with project members that
>> > > doesn't
>> > > > > reflect the current situation in the project.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general" for
>> the
>> > > > average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO
>> users,
>> > > > instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what
>> they
>> > > > want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > issue
>> > > > in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's
>> worst
>> > >
>> > > for
>> > > > those who can't read/write in English.
>> > >
>> > > I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It
>> would
>> > > be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us
>> think
>> > > about such improvements. The same for documentation.
>> > >
>> > > But do think that a page with some names will change anything here?
>> >
>> > It depends on who are managing that page.
>> >
>> >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get
>> > > outdated
>> > > > > very fast.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If
>> UX
>> > > has
>> > > > enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will
>> take
>> > > > care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic
>> people
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > at
>> > > > this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX
>> > > > couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX
>> should
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > be
>> > > > the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very
>> > >
>> > > quickly.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I agree and it is and will not be easy, In the end the work have to be
>> > > done. That means that people have to convince other people from their
>> > > ideas. Especially when people are not able to implement it on their
>> own.
>> > > The better an idea is described and sold the better is the chance that
>> > > somebody will implement it.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > I am preparing a little sample. If Mediawiki can be upgraded and the
>> > extensions I have asked for installed, Iĺl do that in PT-BR section.
>> > Otherwise, I'll do that in www.escritoriolivre.org/wiki
>> >
>> >
>>
>> When you volunteer to help with the wiki please join the infra structure
>> mailing list and join the infra IRC channel. Show your expertise there, ask
>> people and I am sure you will get the support and the access rights you
>> need over time. That's the way how it works at Apache. I did it in the same
>> way and got the rights I need for pootle.
>>
>> Just start doing the update by talking with the infra guys about it. What
>> your plans are, what your experience is etc. that you are able to maintain
>> the wiki or at least that you are I retested to help...
>>
>> Juergen
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Juergen
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > --
>> > Paulo de Souza Lima
>> > http://almalivre.wordpress.com
>> > Curitiba - PR
>> > Linux User #432358
>> > Ubuntu User #28729
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
> Hello All,
>
> Thanks for interest in UX.
>
> As for name, I must admit that I'm new to the effort, and the guidance from
> PPMC and others, has, well, been subjective and contradictory at best. If
> the community wants to establish team/group/sub-community/gang naming
> protocols, then please share when available.
>
It is cultural, but generally there is only one team here: the Apache
OpenOffice team, and we're all members of it. There may be a
self-selected group of individuals working on a common task for a
period of time. But we avoid having that lead to the development of
segregated groups or hierarchies. So it grates a bit on my ear to
read 'UX will do this", or similar. IMHO just say, "I will do this".
We're all contributing as individuals.
> For example, we were told to not use the term "team", as is was reserved
> for the PPMC "team". Then, we were told not to use community and use
> "team". As for UX guys", that is a non-starter for the obvious reasons.
>
Right. So factually "UX" is a topic, and various individuals are
interested in that topic, and this interest will come and go, and
change over time due to changes in overall project composition as well
as competing priorities.
> A key theme was that everyone wanted us not to fragment the broader team or
> community - which makes sense. However, we are trying to reinvigorate the
> UX effort and could really use your support right now to help us
> re-establish ourselves. Diversity is key to the health of the project, it's
> OK if some people want to focus on different aspect of the offering. Let's
> support each other in their individual pursuits, and work to connect such
> activity to the larger community.
>
This is all good. But it does not require explicit identification as
a "team".
> We will rename to "UX team", which is easiest and most appropriate. We will
> continue to use the [UX] email subject prefix, and only reference UX team
> in relation to UX-specific task assignments.
>
Who is "we"?
-Rob
> Regards,
> Kevin
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt <jogischmidt@googlemail.com
> wrote:
> Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> > 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> >
> > > Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> > > > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> > > >
> > > > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Erik,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good stuff. Will do.
> > > > >
> > > > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I
> > > don't
> > > > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a
> > > "community".
> > > > I would call it a "team".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am personally interested in many different areas of the project
> and
> > > > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in
> the
> > > > > different areas will be also different and will change from time to
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > time.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to
> decide
> > > > if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a
> > > >
> > >
> > > problem
> > > > with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would
> like to
> > > > place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's
> point
> > > > of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And
> a new
> > > > contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX
> > > >
> > >
> > > activities
> > > > (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
> > > > > potentially misleading.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the
> job,
> > > > but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about
> that.
> > > > And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter
> of
> > > > creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can
> drive
> > > >
> > >
> > > his
> > > > task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you an
> example we
> > > > done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me
> and
> > > >
> > >
> > > Raul
> > > > are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page
> which
> > > > is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When
> > > > finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it,
> submit
> > > >
> > >
> > > it
> > > > for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor
> > >
> > > will
> > > > be recorded.
> > >
> > >
> > > that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a
> community/team
> > > page
> > >
> >
> >
> > Well, As I told before, I would not call it a "community". I would call
> it
> > a "team" or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX "Guys" sounds better
> =)
> >
> > How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance,
> > for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I
> > couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned
> me
> > about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last
> > editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his
> > discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out
> that
> > TJ and Adailton are the "wiki guys". But this information was not
> anywhere
> > in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what?
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I
> > > have
> > > > asked for some days ago.
> > >
> > >
> > > sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the
> > > relation to a people page?
> > >
> >
> >
> > Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the
> last
> > 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it
> > getting information from other systems, like CMS.
> > Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good
> > ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > We have already a general project page with project members that
> > > doesn't
> > > > > reflect the current situation in the project.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general" for
> the
> > > > average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO
> users,
> > > > instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what
> they
> > > > want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an
> > > >
> > >
> > > issue
> > > > in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's
> worst
> > >
> > > for
> > > > those who can't read/write in English.
> > >
> > > I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It
> would
> > > be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us
> think
> > > about such improvements. The same for documentation.
> > >
> > > But do think that a page with some names will change anything here?
> >
> > It depends on who are managing that page.
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get
> > > outdated
> > > > > very fast.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If
> UX
> > > has
> > > > enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will
> take
> > > > care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic
> people
> > > >
> > >
> > > at
> > > > this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX
> > > > couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX
> should
> > > >
> > >
> > > be
> > > > the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very
> > >
> > > quickly.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree and it is and will not be easy, In the end the work have to be
> > > done. That means that people have to convince other people from their
> > > ideas. Especially when people are not able to implement it on their
> own.
> > > The better an idea is described and sold the better is the chance that
> > > somebody will implement it.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I am preparing a little sample. If Mediawiki can be upgraded and the
> > extensions I have asked for installed, Iĺl do that in PT-BR section.
> > Otherwise, I'll do that in www.escritoriolivre.org/wiki
> >
> >
>
> When you volunteer to help with the wiki please join the infra structure
> mailing list and join the infra IRC channel. Show your expertise there, ask
> people and I am sure you will get the support and the access rights you
> need over time. That's the way how it works at Apache. I did it in the same
> way and got the rights I need for pootle.
>
> Just start doing the update by talking with the infra guys about it. What
> your plans are, what your experience is etc. that you are able to maintain
> the wiki or at least that you are I retested to help...
>
> Juergen
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Juergen
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > --
> > Paulo de Souza Lima
> > http://almalivre.wordpress.com
> > Curitiba - PR
> > Linux User #432358
> > Ubuntu User #28729
> >
> >
>
>
Hello All,
Thanks for interest in UX.
As for name, I must admit that I'm new to the effort, and the guidance from
PPMC and others, has, well, been subjective and contradictory at best. If
the community wants to establish team/group/sub-community/gang naming
protocols, then please share when available.
For example, we were told to not use the term "team", as is was reserved
for the PPMC "team". Then, we were told not to use community and use
"team". As for UX guys", that is a non-starter for the obvious reasons.
A key theme was that everyone wanted us not to fragment the broader team or
community - which makes sense. However, we are trying to reinvigorate the
UX effort and could really use your support right now to help us
re-establish ourselves. Diversity is key to the health of the project, it's
OK if some people want to focus on different aspect of the offering. Let's
support each other in their individual pursuits, and work to connect such
activity to the larger community.
We will rename to "UX team", which is easiest and most appropriate. We will
continue to use the [UX] email subject prefix, and only reference UX team
in relation to UX-specific task assignments.
Regards,
Kevin
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>.
Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
>
> > Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> > > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> > >
> > > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Erik,
> > > > >
> > > > > Good stuff. Will do.
> > > >
> > > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I
> > don't
> > > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a
> > "community".
> > > I would call it a "team".
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and
> > > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the
> > > > different areas will be also different and will change from time to
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > time.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide
> > > if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a
> > >
> >
> > problem
> > > with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to
> > > place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point
> > > of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new
> > > contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX
> > >
> >
> > activities
> > > (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
> > > > potentially misleading.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job,
> > > but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that.
> > > And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of
> > > creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive
> > >
> >
> > his
> > > task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you an example we
> > > done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and
> > >
> >
> > Raul
> > > are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which
> > > is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When
> > > finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit
> > >
> >
> > it
> > > for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor
> >
> > will
> > > be recorded.
> >
> >
> > that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team
> > page
> >
>
>
> Well, As I told before, I would not call it a "community". I would call it
> a "team" or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX "Guys" sounds better =)
>
> How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance,
> for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I
> couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned me
> about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last
> editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his
> discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out that
> TJ and Adailton are the "wiki guys". But this information was not anywhere
> in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what?
>
>
> > >
> > > This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I
> > have
> > > asked for some days ago.
> >
> >
> > sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the
> > relation to a people page?
> >
>
>
> Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the last
> 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it
> getting information from other systems, like CMS.
> Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good
> ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask.
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > We have already a general project page with project members that
> > doesn't
> > > > reflect the current situation in the project.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general" for the
> > > average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users,
> > > instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they
> > > want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an
> > >
> >
> > issue
> > > in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst
> >
> > for
> > > those who can't read/write in English.
> >
> > I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would
> > be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us think
> > about such improvements. The same for documentation.
> >
> > But do think that a page with some names will change anything here?
>
> It depends on who are managing that page.
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get
> > outdated
> > > > very fast.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX
> > has
> > > enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take
> > > care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people
> > >
> >
> > at
> > > this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX
> > > couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should
> > >
> >
> > be
> > > the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very
> >
> > quickly.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I agree and it is and will not be easy, In the end the work have to be
> > done. That means that people have to convince other people from their
> > ideas. Especially when people are not able to implement it on their own.
> > The better an idea is described and sold the better is the chance that
> > somebody will implement it.
> >
>
>
> I am preparing a little sample. If Mediawiki can be upgraded and the
> extensions I have asked for installed, Iĺl do that in PT-BR section.
> Otherwise, I'll do that in www.escritoriolivre.org/wiki
>
>
When you volunteer to help with the wiki please join the infra structure mailing list and join the infra IRC channel. Show your expertise there, ask people and I am sure you will get the support and the access rights you need over time. That's the way how it works at Apache. I did it in the same way and got the rights I need for pootle.
Just start doing the update by talking with the infra guys about it. What your plans are, what your experience is etc. that you are able to maintain the wiki or at least that you are I retested to help...
Juergen
>
>
> >
> > Juergen
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Paulo de Souza Lima
> http://almalivre.wordpress.com
> Curitiba - PR
> Linux User #432358
> Ubuntu User #28729
>
>
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Paulo de Souza Lima <pa...@varekai.org>.
2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> > 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> >
> > > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> > >
> > > > Erik,
> > > >
> > > > Good stuff. Will do.
> > >
> > > do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I
> don't
> > > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
> > >
> >
> >
> > There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a
> "community".
> > I would call it a "team".
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and
> > > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the
> > > different areas will be also different and will change from time to
> time.
> > >
> >
> >
> > If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide
> > if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a
> problem
> > with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to
> > place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point
> > of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new
> > contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX
> activities
> > (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
> > > potentially misleading.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job,
> > but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that.
> > And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of
> > creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive
> his
> > task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you an example we
> > done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and
> Raul
> > are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which
> > is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When
> > finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit
> it
> > for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor
> will
> > be recorded.
> >
> >
>
> that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team
> page
>
Well, As I told before, I would not call it a "community". I would call it
a "team" or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX "Guys" sounds better =)
How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance,
for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I
couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned me
about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last
editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his
discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out that
TJ and Adailton are the "wiki guys". But this information was not anywhere
in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what?
> >
> > This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I
> have
> > asked for some days ago.
> >
> >
>
> sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the
> relation to a people page?
>
Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the last
2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it
getting information from other systems, like CMS.
Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good
ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask.
>
> >
> > >
> > > We have already a general project page with project members that
> doesn't
> > > reflect the current situation in the project.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general" for the
> > average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users,
> > instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they
> > want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an
> issue
> > in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst
> for
> > those who can't read/write in English.
> >
> I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would
> be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us think
> about such improvements. The same for documentation.
>
> But do think that a page with some names will change anything here?
>
It depends on who are managing that page.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get
> outdated
> > > very fast.
> > >
> >
> >
> > My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX
> has
> > enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take
> > care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people
> at
> > this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX
> > couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should
> be
> > the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very
> quickly.
> >
> >
>
> I agree and it is and will not be easy, In the end the work have to be
> done. That means that people have to convince other people from their
> ideas. Especially when people are not able to implement it on their own.
> The better an idea is described and sold the better is the chance that
> somebody will implement it.
>
I am preparing a little sample. If Mediawiki can be upgraded and the
extensions I have asked for installed, Iĺl do that in PT-BR section.
Otherwise, I'll do that in www.escritoriolivre.org/wiki
>
> Juergen
> >
> >
>
Regards
--
Paulo de Souza Lima
http://almalivre.wordpress.com
Curitiba - PR
Linux User #432358
Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Juergen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>.
Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima:
> 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
>
> > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> >
> > > Erik,
> > >
> > > Good stuff. Will do.
> >
> > do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't
> > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
> >
>
>
> There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a "community".
> I would call it a "team".
>
>
> >
> > I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and
> > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the
> > different areas will be also different and will change from time to time.
> >
>
>
> If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide
> if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem
> with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to
> place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point
> of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new
> contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities
> (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
>
>
> >
> > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
> > potentially misleading.
> >
>
>
> Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job,
> but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that.
> And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of
> creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his
> task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you an example we
> done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul
> are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which
> is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When
> finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it
> for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will
> be recorded.
>
>
that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page
>
> This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have
> asked for some days ago.
>
>
sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page?
>
>
> >
> > We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't
> > reflect the current situation in the project.
> >
>
>
> I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general" for the
> average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users,
> instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they
> want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue
> in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for
> those who can't read/write in English.
>
I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us think about such improvements. The same for documentation.
But do think that a page with some names will change anything here?
>
>
> >
> > In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated
> > very fast.
> >
>
>
> My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has
> enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take
> care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at
> this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX
> couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be
> the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly.
>
>
I agree and it is and will not be easy, In the end the work have to be done. That means that people have to convince other people from their ideas. Especially when people are not able to implement it on their own. The better an idea is described and sold the better is the chance that somebody will implement it.
Juergen
>
>
> >
> > Just my 2 ct
> Mine too.
>
>
> > Juergen
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Paulo de Souza Lima
> http://almalivre.wordpress.com
> Curitiba - PR
> Linux User #432358
> Ubuntu User #28729
>
>
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On May 18, 2012, at 6:22 AM, Paulo de Souza Lima wrote:
> 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
>
>> On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>>
>>> Erik,
>>>
>>> Good stuff. Will do.
>>>
>>
>> do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't
>> think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
>>
>
> There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a "community".
> I would call it a "team".
Yes, please call it a "team" or "interest group".
We do not want to split the community into parts - the project is ONE community.
>>
>> I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and
>> don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the
>> different areas will be also different and will change from time to time.
>>
Ditto.
Regards,
Dave
>
> If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide
> if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem
> with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to
> place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point
> of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new
> contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities
> (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
>
>
>>
>> Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
>> potentially misleading.
>>
>
> Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job,
> but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that.
> And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of
> creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his
> task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you an example we
> done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul
> are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which
> is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When
> finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it
> for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will
> be recorded.
>
> This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have
> asked for some days ago.
>
>
>>
>> We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't
>> reflect the current situation in the project.
>>
>
> I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general" for the
> average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users,
> instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they
> want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue
> in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for
> those who can't read/write in English.
>
>
>>
>> In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated
>> very fast.
>>
>
> My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has
> enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take
> care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at
> this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX
> couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be
> the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly.
>
>
>>
>> Just my 2 ct
>>
>>
> Mine too.
>
>
>> Juergen
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Paulo de Souza Lima
> http://almalivre.wordpress.com
> Curitiba - PR
> Linux User #432358
> Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Albino Biasutti Neto <bi...@gmail.com>.
Hi.
2012/5/18 Paulo de Souza Lima <pa...@varekai.org>
> 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
>
> > On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> >
> >> Erik,
> >>
> >> Good stuff. Will do.
> >>
> >
> > do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't
> > think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
> >
>
> There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a "community".
> I would call it a "team".
>
>
True. :)
>
> > I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and
> > don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the
> > different areas will be also different and will change from time to time.
> >
>
> If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide
> if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem
> with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to
> place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point
> of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new
> contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities
> (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
>
>
> >
> > Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
> > potentially misleading.
> >
>
> Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job,
> but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that.
> And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of
> creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his
> task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you an example we
> done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul
> are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which
> is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When
> finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it
> for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will
> be recorded.
>
> This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have
> asked for some days ago.
>
>
> >
> > We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't
> > reflect the current situation in the project.
> >
>
> I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general" for the
> average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users,
> instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they
> want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue
> in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for
> those who can't read/write in English.
>
>
> >
> > In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated
> > very fast.
> >
>
> My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has
> enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take
> care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at
> this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX
> couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be
> the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very
> quickly.
>
>
> >
> > Just my 2 ct
> >
> >
> Mine too.
>
>
+1
Albino
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Paulo de Souza Lima <pa...@varekai.org>.
2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>
> On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>
>> Erik,
>>
>> Good stuff. Will do.
>>
>
> do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't
> think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
>
There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a "community".
I would call it a "team".
>
> I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and
> don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the
> different areas will be also different and will change from time to time.
>
If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide
if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem
with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to
place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point
of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new
contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities
(and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved.
>
> Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
> potentially misleading.
>
Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job,
but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that.
And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of
creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his
task, without the need of a "coordinator". I could give you an example we
done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul
are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which
is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When
finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it
for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will
be recorded.
This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have
asked for some days ago.
>
> We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't
> reflect the current situation in the project.
>
I agree to this point, but I think a general list "too general" for the
average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users,
instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they
want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue
in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for
those who can't read/write in English.
>
> In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated
> very fast.
>
My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has
enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take
care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at
this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX
couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be
the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly.
>
> Just my 2 ct
>
>
Mine too.
> Juergen
Cheers.
--
Paulo de Souza Lima
http://almalivre.wordpress.com
Curitiba - PR
Linux User #432358
Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>.
On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> Erik,
>
> Good stuff. Will do.
do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't
think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction.
I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and
don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the
different areas will be also different and will change from time to time.
Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is
potentially misleading.
We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't
reflect the current situation in the project.
In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated
very fast.
Just my 2 ct
Juergen
>
> Kevin
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Yong Lin Ma<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> May I suggest remove the "Affiliation" column in member page? People
>> can talk about that in "About me" if they like.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thank you. I get it. The second page should be
>>>
>>>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano<kh...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Yong Lin Ma,
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience
>>>>
>>>> Try to open the page above.
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> This is a good start.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon
>>>>> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user
>> experience
>>>>>> community. Watch
>>>>>>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor
>>>>>> updates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English
>> characters.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're passionate about designing and developing great software,
>> then
>>>>>> AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share
>> you
>>>>>> UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
>>>>>>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto
>>>>>> sign up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
>>>>>> their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
>>>>>> design our future products.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AOO User Experience Design
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Erik Ma
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> khirano@apache.org
>>>> Apache OpenOffice (incubating)
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Erik Ma
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Erik Ma
>>
>
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
Erik,
Good stuff. Will do.
Kevin
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> May I suggest remove the "Affiliation" column in member page? People
> can talk about that in "About me" if they like.
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thank you. I get it. The second page should be
> >
> >
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Hi Yong Lin Ma,
> >>
> >>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience
> >>
> >> Try to open the page above.
> >> :)
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> This is a good start.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon
> >>> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hello All,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user
> experience
> >>>> community. Watch
> >>>>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor
> >>>> updates.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English
> characters.
> >>>
> >>>> If you're passionate about designing and developing great software,
> then
> >>>> AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share
> you
> >>>> UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
> >>>>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto
> >>>> sign up.
> >>>>
> >>>> AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
> >>>> their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
> >>>> design our future products.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Kevin
> >>>>
> >>>> AOO User Experience Design
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Erik Ma
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> khirano@apache.org
> >> Apache OpenOffice (incubating)
> >> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Erik Ma
>
>
>
> --
> Erik Ma
>
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com>.
May I suggest remove the "Affiliation" column in member page? People
can talk about that in "About me" if they like.
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you. I get it. The second page should be
>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Yong Lin Ma,
>>
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience
>>
>> Try to open the page above.
>> :)
>>
>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> This is a good start.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon
>>> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello All,
>>>>
>>>> I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience
>>>> community. Watch
>>>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor
>>>> updates.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters.
>>>
>>>> If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then
>>>> AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you
>>>> UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
>>>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto
>>>> sign up.
>>>>
>>>> AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
>>>> their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
>>>> design our future products.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>> AOO User Experience Design
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Erik Ma
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> khirano@apache.org
>> Apache OpenOffice (incubating)
>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>
>
>
> --
> Erik Ma
--
Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com>.
Thank you. I get it. The second page should be
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Yong Lin Ma,
>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience
>
> Try to open the page above.
> :)
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is a good start.
>>
>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon
>> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience
>>> community. Watch
>>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor
>>> updates.
>>>
>>
>> I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters.
>>
>>> If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then
>>> AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you
>>> UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
>>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto
>>> sign up.
>>>
>>> AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
>>> their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
>>> design our future products.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>> AOO User Experience Design
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Erik Ma
>
>
>
> --
> khirano@apache.org
> Apache OpenOffice (incubating)
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
--
Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com>.
Hi Yong Lin Ma,
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience
Try to open the page above.
:)
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a good start.
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon
> <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience
>> community. Watch
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor
>> updates.
>>
>
> I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters.
>
>> If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then
>> AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you
>> UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
>> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto
>> sign up.
>>
>> AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
>> their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
>> design our future products.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kevin
>>
>> AOO User Experience Design
>
>
>
> --
> Erik Ma
--
khirano@apache.org
Apache OpenOffice (incubating)
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Posted by Yong Lin Ma <ma...@gmail.com>.
This is a good start.
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon
<ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience
> community. Watch
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor
> updates.
>
I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters.
> If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then
> AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you
> UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto
> sign up.
>
> AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in
> their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and
> design our future products.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
> AOO User Experience Design
--
Erik Ma