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Posted to docs-dev@perl.apache.org by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org> on 2002/04/19 23:57:34 UTC
What is mod_perl
Ok, here's a ten minute edit:
http://hank.org:5000/about/about.html
I'm a shitty writer, but does that seem somewhat in line with what others
are thinking? Too colorful? Suggestions?
Everyone knows that I like white space, right?
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Re: What is mod_perl
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 02:11 PM 04/20/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>In the book that Eric and I are working on we have a first chapter:
>>'Getting your feet wet' which does exactly what you suggest. And it's a
>>good thing.
>
>
> Ok. That would be good. I may also try to add a little to give an idea of
> what I'm describing.
OK, adopted and committed, please review:
http://perl.apache.org/preview/modperl-docs/dst_html/docs/1.0/guide/getwet.html
>>>Oh, BTW, I think the <h*> styles should be black, not gray. If you look at
>>>that About page you can see how the <h1> header, because it is lighter, is
>>>not as much a header as just the <b> sections. It recedes, as my friend
>>
> says.
>
>>we can try. Go ahead and commit the change. If we like better the older
>>style we will revert.
>
>
> I just committed. I think it makes a big difference. Look at the About
> page before and after. (you can compare with
> http://mardy:5000/about/about.html)
you have messed it up a bit, look at the the <hX> now, they are blue.
The default a: styles should be turned off. With this breakage it's hard
to test the change on the documents pages (which are generated from pods)
> (BTW - I think you only get mail when I commit from the top level -- must
> be the way they have CVS setup. Odd.)
I think that I do get emails but with some delay.
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mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
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Re: What is mod_perl
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 02:11 PM 04/20/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>In the book that Eric and I are working on we have a first chapter:
>'Getting your feet wet' which does exactly what you suggest. And it's a
>good thing.
Ok. That would be good. I may also try to add a little to give an idea of
what I'm describing.
>> Oh, BTW, I think the <h*> styles should be black, not gray. If you look at
>> that About page you can see how the <h1> header, because it is lighter, is
>> not as much a header as just the <b> sections. It recedes, as my friend
says.
>
>we can try. Go ahead and commit the change. If we like better the older
>style we will revert.
I just committed. I think it makes a big difference. Look at the About
page before and after. (you can compare with
http://mardy:5000/about/about.html)
(BTW - I think you only get mail when I commit from the top level -- must
be the way they have CVS setup. Odd.)
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Re: What is mod_perl
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> I also intended to provide more>> links at the end of each section. I was
> thinking to the existing docs, but now I think I'd like to link to separate
> pages that give simple code or configuration examples. Linking right to
> the guide might be overwhelming for someone that just wants to see an example.
In the book that Eric and I are working on we have a first chapter:
'Getting your feet wet' which does exactly what you suggest. And it's a
good thing.
All we need is to add another chapter to the guide, make it first and
link to it from where you want. I'll see if I can steal it from our book :)
> Does anyone read my long emails?
of course not :)
> Oh, BTW, I think the <h*> styles should be black, not gray. If you look at
> that About page you can see how the <h1> header, because it is lighter, is
> not as much a header as just the <b> sections. It recedes, as my friend says.
we can try. Go ahead and commit the change. If we like better the older
style we will revert.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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RE: What is mod_perl
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
[oops, this was a hidden window for a few hours -- thought I sent it already]
At 11:20 PM 04/19/02 +0100, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>Not too colourful at all. I've proof read - below are my edits (note: I
>have only submitted the paragraphs that need changes - I'm not
>suggesting the removal of paragraphs not duplicated below) - (/me
>relishes the role "Editor in Chief") :-)
I copied most in, but I couldn't see things you fixed. I'll cvs ci, and
then work off cvs diff -u, ok? Can you do that? I'm not sure I fixed
everything you wanted fixed.
Yes, there's a lot of white space. That's on purpose. If we want to use
<dl> that's fine. Still, it validates, and looks the way I intended, so
that seems like a win for once ;) I've just had less luck with <dl>
(that's how I started today, and changed to the <blockqutoe>.
By the way:
I also intended to provide more>> links at the end of each section. I was
thinking to the existing docs, but now I think I'd like to link to separate
pages that give simple code or configuration examples. Linking right to
the guide might be overwhelming for someone that just wants to see an example.
A while back I thought it would be great if we could get someone to write
very short, simple, in a few lines, yet real examples that show just how
easy it is to do some of these things. Randal, perhaps? His examples are
often clever and useful and quite explanatory in a short amount of space.
Or Geoff, Paul, or Randy maybe, because I'm thinking of cookbook type of
examples. Ten lines of code or less.
I know about the FAQs section, and that's great, but I'm thinking the
more>> would show stuff that would fit on one screen. Something for first
time mod_perl people so they can see in briefly in code what we are
discussing, then with links to the FAQs or docs for more info.
In other words, you read the About mod_perl (oh, What is mod_perl?), click
on more>> to see a quick example (and they think "Oh, that is easy.
Cool!"), click back and continue with the overview.
At the bottom of About I'd like to see a link to mod_perl in ten minutes or
some such thing. Do we already have that? Is it possible to just show a
linux download, build, create module, example? I find it really useful to
see a cut-n-pasted session of all the steps without too much discussion,
even if my platform doesn't match up exactly.
Does anyone read my long emails?
Oh, BTW, I think the <h*> styles should be black, not gray. If you look at
that About page you can see how the <h1> header, because it is lighter, is
not as much a header as just the <b> sections. It recedes, as my friend says.
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Bill Moseley
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Re: What is mod_perl
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 23:57 19.04.2002, Bill Moseley wrote:
>Ok, here's a ten minute edit:
>
> http://hank.org:5000/about/about.html
>
>I'm a shitty writer, but does that seem somewhat in line with what others
>are thinking? Too colorful? Suggestions?
>
>Everyone knows that I like white space, right?
Looks good. s/Excelerate/Accelerate/ though.
But you're overdoing it a little on whitespace :) You should maybe try
using <dl>, <dt>, <dd> instead of blockquotes (which aren't meant to be
used just to indent text).
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Per Einar Ellefsen
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RE: What is mod_perl
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 12:02 AM 04/20/02 +0100, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>How about s/search/go/? Then the button can sit beside the input field.
>It doesn't really need to say "search", it's inside a box that is titled
>"Search" in big, bold letters - so I think there could only be minimal
>confusion.
We went through all this. The problem is NS4 on Linux. Take a look at
http://search.apache.org/archives/docs-dev/att-1257/01-snapshot4.png
It works on all other clients to have it to the right of the input field.
We could just remove the button but I fear that there's some client that
wouldn't submit without a button.
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RE: What is mod_perl
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>>Sorry, I know it's causing problems, but the "search" button
>shouldn't
>>be beneath the search field - it looks so wrong.
>
>Ok, agreed, it looks wrong now.
>
>I have a suggestion: what about dropping the search button altogether?
How about s/search/go/? Then the button can sit beside the input field.
It doesn't really need to say "search", it's inside a box that is titled
"Search" in big, bold letters - so I think there could only be minimal
confusion.
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
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RE: What is mod_perl
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 00:21 20.04.2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> >>Ok, here's a ten minute edit:
> >>
> >> http://hank.org:5000/about/about.html
>
>
>Sorry, I know it's causing problems, but the "search" button shouldn't
>be beneath the search field - it looks so wrong.
Ok, agreed, it looks wrong now.
I have a suggestion: what about dropping the search button altogether?
It'll stop a lot of the discussion (although it'll probably just create
more discussion, based on the fact that we're missing one).
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Per Einar Ellefsen
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Re: What is mod_perl
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 01:19 PM 04/20/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>>I hope someone can come up with a better search box layout. It's kind of
>>>ugly now.
>>
>>What if we move the search box on the top into the navbar? it'll look
>>better I think. print int rand(2) ? ":)" : ":(";
>
>
> See, Stas, like I said, if docset could write the parsed TT data out to a
> database along with the templates, we could generate the entire site
> dynamically and use mod_perl at the same time. We could have a link
> "my_mod_perl" which allows you to select the location of the search bar,
> and the amount of white space each user prefers and use cookies.
:)
right, running modperl on apache.org which is already running java
servlets and topping the load to 10 and more, you must be kidding.
In any case, the least we should do is to move the 'Search' button after
the pull down menu.
Another alternative is to shrink the search input box even more. (8
chars?) and then the 'go' button will fit in. Though I'm not sure if
it's good usability-wise)
> Or how about offering to add the search box as a browser plug-in, so it's
> always on the browser.
>
> I had coffee with dinner.
I'm having my coffee for breakfast now.
--
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: What is mod_perl
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 01:19 PM 04/20/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>> I hope someone can come up with a better search box layout. It's kind of
>> ugly now.
>
>What if we move the search box on the top into the navbar? it'll look
>better I think. print int rand(2) ? ":)" : ":(";
See, Stas, like I said, if docset could write the parsed TT data out to a
database along with the templates, we could generate the entire site
dynamically and use mod_perl at the same time. We could have a link
"my_mod_perl" which allows you to select the location of the search bar,
and the amount of white space each user prefers and use cookies.
Or how about offering to add the search box as a browser plug-in, so it's
always on the browser.
I had coffee with dinner.
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Re: What is mod_perl
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 12:53 PM 04/20/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>"Gain access to all request stages" the "all" word looks weirdly
>>formatted
>
>
> Agreed. I meant to remove those.
cool!
>>>>Everyone knows that I like white space, right?
>>>
>>But what about the consistency with other pages. I don't think it's a
>>good idea to use a lot of space on one page but not on the others.
>
>
> Yes, but it's too much work to fix the others. ;)
>
> I'd really like to save the About section for first time visitors. They
> need extra special handling, like more white space to make them feel
> comfortable. (Like kids in a strange place, they need a safe place to
> run.) So I think it's ok to format a bit differently.
>
> When they get hooked after reading the About section then they can dive
> into the meat of the site where the information is a bit more dense.
sure, agreed!
> Can't I have a little extra white space?
[redundant white space snippet] :)
>>Didn't I tell that? It's tonight, so hurry up with all the last moment
>>patches.
>
>
> Whew. I thought it was tonight my time zone.
Since Bill and I are always making sure that someone is up when the
other sleeps, we have a shifting definition of 'tonight'. Tonight is the
night, baby!
>>We should finish the search issue and then cleanup the TODO list, then
>>do a preview announcement, give a few weeks for people to ponder on the
>>new site and solve problems with various browsers.
>
>
> I hope someone can come up with a better search box layout. It's kind of
> ugly now.
What if we move the search box on the top into the navbar? it'll look
better I think. print int rand(2) ? ":)" : ":(";
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: What is mod_perl
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 12:53 PM 04/20/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>"Gain access to all request stages" the "all" word looks weirdly
>formatted
Agreed. I meant to remove those.
>>>Everyone knows that I like white space, right?
>
>But what about the consistency with other pages. I don't think it's a
>good idea to use a lot of space on one page but not on the others.
Yes, but it's too much work to fix the others. ;)
I'd really like to save the About section for first time visitors. They
need extra special handling, like more white space to make them feel
comfortable. (Like kids in a strange place, they need a safe place to
run.) So I think it's ok to format a bit differently.
When they get hooked after reading the About section then they can dive
into the meat of the site where the information is a bit more dense.
Can't I have a little extra white space?
>Didn't I tell that? It's tonight, so hurry up with all the last moment
>patches.
Whew. I thought it was tonight my time zone.
>We should finish the search issue and then cleanup the TODO list, then
>do a preview announcement, give a few weeks for people to ponder on the
>new site and solve problems with various browsers.
I hope someone can come up with a better search box layout. It's kind of
ugly now.
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Re: What is mod_perl
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>Ok, here's a ten minute edit:
>>
>> http://hank.org:5000/about/about.html
>
>
> Bill you are "the man" - that's brilliant.
seconded :)
To me only:
"Gain access to all request stages" the "all" word looks weirdly
formatted, did you use italics? Italics are not very good for the
webfonts, though we use these in the filenames. Can we drop the <i>
around all?
>>Everyone knows that I like white space, right?
>
>
> Me too. The subliminal truth is that *everyone" likes whitespace, even
> if they don't realise it. Whitespace guides the eyes, eases the weight
> of large volumes of content and is cosmetically appealing too. We need
> more whitespace (note to self: start a "Support Whitespace" campaign).
But what about the consistency with other pages. I don't think it's a
good idea to use a lot of space on one page but not on the others.
> Stas: Is the site going to be launched any time soon? What's the
> go-live date (approx.)?
Didn't I tell that? It's tonight, so hurry up with all the last moment
patches.
We should finish the search issue and then cleanup the TODO list, then
do a preview announcement, give a few weeks for people to ponder on the
new site and solve problems with various browsers.
During this preview review process, we have to do a lot of work to
prepare apache.org for the shift to the new site. This is infrastructure
work, unrelated to the site's design/content.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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RE: What is mod_perl
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>>Ok, here's a ten minute edit:
>>
>> http://hank.org:5000/about/about.html
Sorry, I know it's causing problems, but the "search" button shouldn't
be beneath the search field - it looks so wrong.
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
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RE: What is mod_perl
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>Ok, here's a ten minute edit:
>
> http://hank.org:5000/about/about.html
Bill you are "the man" - that's brilliant.
>I'm a shitty writer, but does that seem somewhat in line with
>what others are thinking? Too colorful? Suggestions?
Not too colourful at all. I've proof read - below are my edits (note: I
have only submitted the paragraphs that need changes - I'm not
suggesting the removal of paragraphs not duplicated below) - (/me
relishes the role "Editor in Chief") :-)
Note: Don't put a comma before the word "and".
mod_perl brings together two of the most powerful and mature
technologies available to the web professional today.
Accelerate your existing dynamic content
The standard Apache::Registry module can provide 100x speedups for your
existing CGI scripts, and reduce the load on your server at the same
time. A few changes to the web server's config is all that is required
to run your existing CGI scripts at lightning speed.
With the power of Perl, writing custom modules to extend and enhance
Apache is a snap. Content handlers can be written in just a few lines of
code and can be quickly integrated with existing modules specifically
designed for use with mod_perl, or with modules freely available from
the CPAN.
Imagine the power of mod_rewrite combined with the power of Perl!
Rewrite URLs based on the content of a directory structure, settings
stored in a relational database, or the phase of the moon.
Write custom authentication and authorization modules to integrate with
existing user databases or take advantage of the well-supported CPAN
modules to extend the abilities of Apache. You can even create custom
logging tailored to your site's specific needs.
>Everyone knows that I like white space, right?
Me too. The subliminal truth is that *everyone" likes whitespace, even
if they don't realise it. Whitespace guides the eyes, eases the weight
of large volumes of content and is cosmetically appealing too. We need
more whitespace (note to self: start a "Support Whitespace" campaign).
Stas: Is the site going to be launched any time soon? What's the
go-live date (approx.)?
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
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