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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> on 2004/06/20 19:27:38 UTC
[PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
BACKGROUND
----------
the common release download pages for jakarta products currently list
as many of these as possible. by it's nature, the number of
jakarta-commons components has risen over time and will most likely
continue to rise in the future. at the moment, the download pages are
hard to use and this will get worse over time as more jakarta commons
components are added.
PROPOSAL
--------
i'd like to shift all jakarta commons component downloads onto separate
pages which are linked from the main ones. i think that this will
prolong the useful life of the original page without really effecting
it's utility.
here my +1
- robert
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On 20 Jun 2004, at 22:45, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jun 2004, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>
>>> PROPOSAL
>>> --------
>>> i'd like to shift all jakarta commons component downloads onto
>>> separate
>>> pages which are linked from the main ones. i think that this will
>>> prolong the useful life of the original page without really effecting
>>> it's utility.
>> +1
>
> +1.
>
> I'd had some complaints from users about the difficulty of downloading
> (too many click's). I like the dynamic closer.cgi page that the maven
> download is using. We should just have a single download page with all
> the
> commons components on, and it should not mention mirrors at all.
>
> All links for downloads should then be aimed at the cgi, which will
> have
> all the mirror info for each file.
the main reason for the difficult of downloading was as an attempt to
educate users about the importance of verifying the release. apache can
make no promises as to the security of any mirror. it's therefore vital
that the md5 sum is checked after the software has been downloaded.
it's only a matter of time before a trojaned zip is uploaded to some
ASF mirror. then those windoz users who happily double click without
checking will have real problems. not me (of course) 'cos i don't have
any windoz but i still feel that we should make an effort to those
which are so afflicted not least ;)
i've always been unhappy with that dynamic page since it doesn't
emphasis the importance of checking the MD5 sum nor does it make it
easy to find where the sum is. i much prefer the avalon-style one.
having said that, providing that users are clearly told that they need
to check the md5 sum and the sum is easily available, then i wouldn't
object to improvements along the line you suggest.
- robert
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On 1 Jul 2004, at 21:54, Henri Yandell wrote:
> Have you already posted a version of your new page somewhere so we can
> look/complain?
this was mainly a structure change rather than look and feel.
> What's your next window for attempting it, and how long would you need
> to
> freeze releases for (ie) rought estimate of how long infrastructure +
> you
> will need)?
there's going to be a stream of commons releases coming up over the
next few months. my main concern is that the download urls given on the
announcements (and widely disseminated) will stop matching as soon as
the release are moved to new pages. it's probably not worth pursuing
this in the immediate future. this problem may have resolved itself by
then (since TLPs should be hosting their own release download pages).
there are some changes which i'd like to see introduced which can be
done without moving the commons releases away. i think now that users
should be used to the mirrors by now so maybe we could alter the page
to make things a little more user friendly. i'm inclined now to include
the MD5 sums on the page (rather than linked) and add an index.
- robert
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
Have you already posted a version of your new page somewhere so we can
look/complain?
What's your next window for attempting it, and how long would you need to
freeze releases for (ie) rought estimate of how long infrastructure + you
will need)?
Hen
On Thu, 1 Jul 2004, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 30 Jun 2004, at 23:12, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>
> > Sorry if I messed this up for you.
>
> we'll put this one down to bad luck.
>
> if infrastructure hadn't been so busy, i hadn't chosen an unusual page
> name (causing infrastructure to query the request) and my internet
> hadn't fallen down all evening on tuesday then this wouldn't have
> arisen. i was just a little frustrated, that's all.
>
> > FYI, collections is using the subpage named anchor tags to get the
> > user to
> > the right part of the page.
>
> yep but i was moving all the commons stuff onto another page.
>
> - robert
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On 30 Jun 2004, at 23:12, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> Sorry if I messed this up for you.
we'll put this one down to bad luck.
if infrastructure hadn't been so busy, i hadn't chosen an unusual page
name (causing infrastructure to query the request) and my internet
hadn't fallen down all evening on tuesday then this wouldn't have
arisen. i was just a little frustrated, that's all.
> FYI, collections is using the subpage named anchor tags to get the
> user to
> the right part of the page.
yep but i was moving all the commons stuff onto another page.
- robert
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>.
Sorry if I messed this up for you.
FYI, collections is using the subpage named anchor tags to get the user to
the right part of the page.
Stephen
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert burrell donkin" <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> look like we've missed the chance for this :(
>
> this change needed infrastructure to update a list of paths to make the
> cgi script work with the new url. unfortunately, it took a few days to
> get this processed. in the mean time, commons collections was released.
>
> it's a bit of a pity since i've spent this evening working on new
> download pages but i'm rolling back these changes and asking
> infrastructure to remove the url from the list. we'll probably need
> more coordination (and probably a pmc sanctioned release freeze) to
> make changes to the download pages. so, since henri has plans for a
> rethink, we might as well wait and move to the new system directly.
>
> oh well: win some, lose some. that's just the way it is...
>
> - robert
>
> On 20 Jun 2004, at 22:45, Henri Yandell wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Jun 2004, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> >
> >>> PROPOSAL
> >>> --------
> >>> i'd like to shift all jakarta commons component downloads onto
> >>> separate
> >>> pages which are linked from the main ones. i think that this will
> >>> prolong the useful life of the original page without really effecting
> >>> it's utility.
> >> +1
> >
> > +1.
> >
> > I'd had some complaints from users about the difficulty of downloading
> > (too many click's). I like the dynamic closer.cgi page that the maven
> > download is using. We should just have a single download page with all
> > the
> > commons components on, and it should not mention mirrors at all.
> >
> > All links for downloads should then be aimed at the cgi, which will
> > have
> > all the mirror info for each file.
> >
> > Hen
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On 5 Jul 2004, at 08:42, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
<snip>
> Joshua committed the changes needed for the jakarta-commons download
> page last Tuesday. Is there anything left that needs to be done for
> this case?
it might as well be rolled back (i've rolled back the changes i made to
the jakarta site). there are simply too many commons release coming up
over the next few weeks and months to be able to change the url. the
change would have patched things up for a little while longer but maybe
it's as well that things will come to a head (since that's usually the
best way to persuade people that change is necessary).
- robert
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 4 Jul 2004, robert burrell donkin
<ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> i'm a little out of the infrastructure loop now. (i had thought that
> infrastructure were now responsible for maintaining the foundation
> website and so requests had to go through them.)
Yes and no. "Responsible" is the new PRC, at least in theory. In
general infrastructure is the right place for patches, but I don't
think that all patches have to go through infrastructure - if you find
anybody else to apply a patch, that should be just fine.
> i'm thinking of moving the infrastructure material on the old wiki
> over to wiki.apache.org/general so maybe i could add some
> information there. does this sounds like a good plan?
Maybe. I'm not sure howmany people actually read wiki pages at all.
Personally I know that I mostly read the Wikis for the projects I'm
involved in via their RSS feed - and only to monitor them for
vandalism or spam.
I don't think anybody would object against moving content over, in
particular since we want to get rid of the old wiki some time.
Probably the /dev/ section of the foundation website would be the best
final destination, though.
>> Sorry, I never saw any request to change the configuration file or
>> I would have done it ASAP.
>
> i'm trying not to blame anyone
Nor did I think you were.
Joshua committed the changes needed for the jakarta-commons download
page last Tuesday. Is there anything left that needs to be done for
this case?
Stefan
--
http://stefanbodewig.blogger.de/
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On 2 Jul 2004, at 08:04, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, robert burrell donkin
> <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> this change needed infrastructure to update a list of paths to make
>> the cgi script work with the new url.
>
> This is not strictly true. Anybody with commit access to the site
> module could do that, this includes far more people than
> infrastructure (all ASF members, for example).
i'm a little out of the infrastructure loop now. (i had thought that
infrastructure were now responsible for maintaining the foundation
website and so requests had to go through them.) we really need to
invest in some documentation so that people (myself included) don't
create more work for infrastructure than is strictly necessary.
i'm thinking of moving the infrastructure material on the old wiki over
to wiki.apache.org/general so maybe i could add some information there.
does this sounds like a good plan?
> Sorry, I never saw any request to change the configuration file or I
> would have done it ASAP.
i'm trying not to blame anyone for this. the infrastructure team do an
amazing job given the limited resources. i was a little frustrated by
things such as trains, internet access falling down and having to work
late (fixing problems created by others) so my apologies for being a
little brusque. let's putting this one down to a conspiracy of events.
- robert
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, robert burrell donkin
<ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> this change needed infrastructure to update a list of paths to make
> the cgi script work with the new url.
This is not strictly true. Anybody with commit access to the site
module could do that, this includes far more people than
infrastructure (all ASF members, for example).
Sorry, I never saw any request to change the configuration file or I
would have done it ASAP.
Stefan
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
look like we've missed the chance for this :(
this change needed infrastructure to update a list of paths to make the
cgi script work with the new url. unfortunately, it took a few days to
get this processed. in the mean time, commons collections was released.
it's a bit of a pity since i've spent this evening working on new
download pages but i'm rolling back these changes and asking
infrastructure to remove the url from the list. we'll probably need
more coordination (and probably a pmc sanctioned release freeze) to
make changes to the download pages. so, since henri has plans for a
rethink, we might as well wait and move to the new system directly.
oh well: win some, lose some. that's just the way it is...
- robert
On 20 Jun 2004, at 22:45, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jun 2004, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>
>>> PROPOSAL
>>> --------
>>> i'd like to shift all jakarta commons component downloads onto
>>> separate
>>> pages which are linked from the main ones. i think that this will
>>> prolong the useful life of the original page without really effecting
>>> it's utility.
>> +1
>
> +1.
>
> I'd had some complaints from users about the difficulty of downloading
> (too many click's). I like the dynamic closer.cgi page that the maven
> download is using. We should just have a single download page with all
> the
> commons components on, and it should not mention mirrors at all.
>
> All links for downloads should then be aimed at the cgi, which will
> have
> all the mirror info for each file.
>
> Hen
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> > PROPOSAL
> > --------
> > i'd like to shift all jakarta commons component downloads onto separate
> > pages which are linked from the main ones. i think that this will
> > prolong the useful life of the original page without really effecting
> > it's utility.
> +1
+1.
I'd had some complaints from users about the difficulty of downloading
(too many click's). I like the dynamic closer.cgi page that the maven
download is using. We should just have a single download page with all the
commons components on, and it should not mention mirrors at all.
All links for downloads should then be aimed at the cgi, which will have
all the mirror info for each file.
Hen
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Re: [PROPOSAL][site] create separate page for commons downloads
Posted by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>.
> PROPOSAL
> --------
> i'd like to shift all jakarta commons component downloads onto separate
> pages which are linked from the main ones. i think that this will
> prolong the useful life of the original page without really effecting
> it's utility.
+1
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