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Posted to dev@groovy.apache.org by 孙 岚 <re...@hotmail.com> on 2019/01/08 02:55:44 UTC
[PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Hi all,
As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down its steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2, async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully without warnings, etc.
I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming language, which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor developing Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every year, something is better than nothing!
Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the following snapshots show). "OSC will assist in managing the funds of the Fund; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse the net income and principal for purposes of the Project as specifically set forth in the Protocols."(SEE the details in attachment 1)
As groovy/groovy-core is not my personal project, so I am requesting permission from you before I create open collective. To be frank, I am not sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I send the email as a Groovy enthusiast(not a Apache committer) via my own hotmail(not the apache mail). I wish we could create open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community.
FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
1, babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
2, asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
3, jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
4, vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
5, mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
Steps to create open collective for Groovy
[cid:eba248d4-9eb0-4190-bcb1-c315475c1107]
[cid:33ad6e07-91d7-4878-bc5c-f349641bfe16]
(Terms & Conditions details can be found in the attachments of this email)
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Daniel Sun <re...@hotmail.com>.
Here is the introduction of Open Source Collective 501c6 (Non Profit):
https://opencollective.com/opensourcecollective
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by "Daniel.Sun" <su...@apache.org>.
My pleasure :-)
I wish we could create the open collective for Groovy programming language
recently(before the end of February this year). And Paul will consult the
right man about how to do without violating the terms of Apache policy.
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
-----
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Jochen Theodorou <bl...@gmx.org>.
First of all I want to say thanks to Daniel for doing this, and I think
we should try.
On 08.01.19 22:44, MG wrote:
[...]
> Might be worth thinking about whether existing sponsors would consider
> giving their donation through the same channel ?
Apparently contributions can be registered in the found as spend money
and thus will increase the fund size. It would mean the fund never gets
the money or has to spend it, but the size increases. Why you should do
that, is a bit beyond me right now.
[...]
> I guess it would also not be too hard to integrate a sponsor names or
> logos into e.g. Groovy console (if Apache allows that)...
I think Apache does not allow that.
bye Jochen
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Jochen Theodorou <bl...@gmx.org>.
First of all I want to say thanks to Daniel for doing this, and I think
we should try.
On 08.01.19 22:44, MG wrote:
[...]
> Might be worth thinking about whether existing sponsors would consider
> giving their donation through the same channel ?
Apparently contributions can be registered in the found as spend money
and thus will increase the fund size. It would mean the fund never gets
the money or has to spend it, but the size increases. Why you should do
that, is a bit beyond me right now.
[...]
> I guess it would also not be too hard to integrate a sponsor names or
> logos into e.g. Groovy console (if Apache allows that)...
I think Apache does not allow that.
bye Jochen
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by MG <mg...@arscreat.com>.
Am 08.01.2019 um 11:54 schrieb Paul King:
>
> > (4) While sponsorship is below what we'd like and below what it
> has been
> > at some previous points in Groovy life, it isn't 0. We have several
> > existing sponsors, e.g. OCI. The wording about the collective
> should take
> > that into consideration.
>
> Yep. OCI is a great company for Groovy! We always appreciate its
> sponsorship.
>
> Let's imagine that would be really great if more people
> involve into
> developing Groovy, more big features(e.g. MOP2, async/await) are
> completed
> and hard issues(e.g. generics of STC) are fixed every year :-)
>
>
> Totally agree with you, just suggesting the wording used is sensitive
> to existing players. I can help craft wording if needed.
>
Might be worth thinking about whether existing sponsors would consider
giving their donation through the same channel ? Could have different
tiers of sponsorship (gold, silver, etc), with respective logo sizes,
etc to differentiate. Would lead to a greater exposure for them...
I guess it would also not be too hard to integrate a sponsor names or
logos into e.g. Groovy console (if Apache allows that)...
Cheers,
mg
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>.
On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 6:35 PM Daniel Sun <re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> > (1) Since we don't use the "groovy/groovy-core" repo any longer, I don't
> > think that is the correct one to use but rather "apache/groovy".
>
> As you said in (2), `According to official Apache policy, the ASF
> doesn't accept "cash for code"`, I am not sure we can create open
> collective
> for "apache/groovy"
I am not sure either but why not find out for sure? If we (with community
hats on) can, that would be ideal. I will try to find out the right person
to ask.
> (BTW, I can not access "apache/groovy" via my github account).
>
I haven't set mine up either but I believe you can use two factor
authentication now that we are using gitbox:
https://gitbox.apache.org/setup/
> If we can not use "apache/groovy" to create open collective,
> "groovy/groovy-core" may be better, but we have to explain the reason in
> the
> open collective.
>
> > Also, while the Android Groovy Gradle plugin is no doubt a worthy
> > recipient of additional funds, I would be inclined to keep it simple and
> > focus on core Groovy for now.
> Agreed.
>
> > this would need to be a community-driven effort rather than an official
> > Apache organised activity
>
> Yep. That's the reason why I sent the email via my personal hotmail.
>
> > The wording could say "Friends of Groovy", or "All Things Groovy" (to
> > mimic the facebook group) or "Gr8 Technologies" rather than "Apache
> Groovy
> > project" or similar.
>
> "I would be inclined to keep it simple and focus on core Groovy for
> now. ", I think wording focuses on core Groovy would be better, e.g.
> "Groovy Programming Language"?
>
I think it needs to be clear up front that it's not associated with Apache
and
just "Groovy Programming Language" while not exactly "Apache Groovy project"
I suspect isn't clear enough. That's why I suggested "Friends of Groovy".
> I suspect, we (as the Apache project) would need to maintain oversight of
> > the collective to make sure of this. As far as I know this is slightly
> > uncharted territory.
>
> The opencollective site will record all "contribute" and "submit
> expense", which is open to all people, e.g.
> https://opencollective.com/vuejs#budget
True, that might be enough. We'll have to ask. It does raise the other
question though of how expenses will be approved?
> > (4) While sponsorship is below what we'd like and below what it has been
> > at some previous points in Groovy life, it isn't 0. We have several
> > existing sponsors, e.g. OCI. The wording about the collective should take
> > that into consideration.
>
> Yep. OCI is a great company for Groovy! We always appreciate its
> sponsorship.
>
> Let's imagine that would be really great if more people involve into
> developing Groovy, more big features(e.g. MOP2, async/await) are completed
> and hard issues(e.g. generics of STC) are fixed every year :-)
>
Totally agree with you, just suggesting the wording used is sensitive to
existing players. I can help craft wording if needed.
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Guillaume Laforge <gl...@gmail.com>.
It's worth trying!
On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 9:35 AM Daniel Sun <re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> > (1) Since we don't use the "groovy/groovy-core" repo any longer, I don't
> > think that is the correct one to use but rather "apache/groovy".
>
> As you said in (2), `According to official Apache policy, the ASF
> doesn't accept "cash for code"`, I am not sure we can create open
> collective
> for "apache/groovy"(BTW, I can not access "apache/groovy" via my github
> account).
> If we can not use "apache/groovy" to create open collective,
> "groovy/groovy-core" may be better, but we have to explain the reason in
> the
> open collective.
>
> > Also, while the Android Groovy Gradle plugin is no doubt a worthy
> > recipient of additional funds, I would be inclined to keep it simple and
> > focus on core Groovy for now.
> Agreed.
>
> > this would need to be a community-driven effort rather than an official
> > Apache organised activity
>
> Yep. That's the reason why I sent the email via my personal hotmail.
>
> > The wording could say "Friends of Groovy", or "All Things Groovy" (to
> > mimic the facebook group) or "Gr8 Technologies" rather than "Apache
> Groovy
> > project" or similar.
>
> "I would be inclined to keep it simple and focus on core Groovy for
> now. ", I think wording focuses on core Groovy would be better, e.g.
> "Groovy Programming Language"?
>
> > I suspect, we (as the Apache project) would need to maintain oversight
> of
> > the collective to make sure of this. As far as I know this is slightly
> > uncharted territory.
>
> The opencollective site will record all "contribute" and "submit
> expense", which is open to all people, e.g.
> https://opencollective.com/vuejs#budget
>
> > (4) While sponsorship is below what we'd like and below what it has been
> > at some previous points in Groovy life, it isn't 0. We have several
> > existing sponsors, e.g. OCI. The wording about the collective should take
> > that into consideration.
>
> Yep. OCI is a great company for Groovy! We always appreciate its
> sponsorship.
>
> Let's imagine that would be really great if more people involve into
> developing Groovy, more big features(e.g. MOP2, async/await) are completed
> and hard issues(e.g. generics of STC) are fixed every year :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>
--
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
Twitter: @glaforge <http://twitter.com/glaforge>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Daniel Sun <re...@hotmail.com>.
Hi Paul,
> (1) Since we don't use the "groovy/groovy-core" repo any longer, I don't
> think that is the correct one to use but rather "apache/groovy".
As you said in (2), `According to official Apache policy, the ASF
doesn't accept "cash for code"`, I am not sure we can create open collective
for "apache/groovy"(BTW, I can not access "apache/groovy" via my github
account).
If we can not use "apache/groovy" to create open collective,
"groovy/groovy-core" may be better, but we have to explain the reason in the
open collective.
> Also, while the Android Groovy Gradle plugin is no doubt a worthy
> recipient of additional funds, I would be inclined to keep it simple and
> focus on core Groovy for now.
Agreed.
> this would need to be a community-driven effort rather than an official
> Apache organised activity
Yep. That's the reason why I sent the email via my personal hotmail.
> The wording could say "Friends of Groovy", or "All Things Groovy" (to
> mimic the facebook group) or "Gr8 Technologies" rather than "Apache Groovy
> project" or similar.
"I would be inclined to keep it simple and focus on core Groovy for
now. ", I think wording focuses on core Groovy would be better, e.g.
"Groovy Programming Language"?
> I suspect, we (as the Apache project) would need to maintain oversight of
> the collective to make sure of this. As far as I know this is slightly
> uncharted territory.
The opencollective site will record all "contribute" and "submit
expense", which is open to all people, e.g.
https://opencollective.com/vuejs#budget
> (4) While sponsorship is below what we'd like and below what it has been
> at some previous points in Groovy life, it isn't 0. We have several
> existing sponsors, e.g. OCI. The wording about the collective should take
> that into consideration.
Yep. OCI is a great company for Groovy! We always appreciate its
sponsorship.
Let's imagine that would be really great if more people involve into
developing Groovy, more big features(e.g. MOP2, async/await) are completed
and hard issues(e.g. generics of STC) are fixed every year :-)
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by "Daniel.Sun" <su...@apache.org>.
If we can not create open collective for " apache/groovy" and
"groovy/groovy-core" is not a correct choice, we can create open collective
whose category is "Association" and we can call it "Groovy Community" or
something similar.
P.S. Even if I can access "apache/groovy" via my github account, I still can
not see the project in opencollective site when connecting to github. Take
it easy, I just have a try to access it ;-)
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
-----
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
Re: Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Thulsi D Krishnan <kt...@in.ibm.com>.
Hi,
Greetings. These are gems of suggestions - i think the community can help
the projects in ways indicated .I used to recall JBoss folks used to
charge some smaller /cook book cost for in-depth manuals.
Thanks a lot
----------------------------------------------
K.Thulsi Doss
Test Architect MFD & SIA
Cell :9880637180
E-Mail;kthulsidoss@in.ibm.com
----------------------------------------------
From: Owen Rubel <or...@gmail.com>
To: users@groovy.apache.org, Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>
Date: 07/10/2019 09:57 AM
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective
for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community
Would be more than happy to contribute to open collective. The openness is
vital. There have been too many decisions that have been made that have
closed off the community entirely to the detriment of projects.
OCI itself does not realize that gated communities like Slack are not
searchable, can have their content removed and censored on developers
whims (and have) and the moderators do not follow their own guidelines.
Of note, I have sent suggestion and talked to github 'sponsors' team about
having a credit card (like prime) so that points can be added as
contributions to open source projects. Its as simple as 1% of all
purchases going to your favorite open source project. This would be hugely
beneficial.
The second thing I would suggest: stop building binaries for free.
Remember MAKE files? Charge people $1-2 through the sponsor program for
prebuilt binaries but ALWAYS provide source code and MAKE instructions for
free. Only hardcore people (or people who really need to build from
source) won't pay for the binary. You can even make this a sliding scale
based on region; people in Somalia may not have that dollar so it can
easily be waved.
Always charge for convenience: people will pay even a minimum for
convenience.
There are a ton of ways to get support and build out a support program for
even a small team.
Owen Rubel
orubel@gmail.com
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 7:59 PM Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au> wrote:
Some points:
(1) Since we don't use the "groovy/groovy-core" repo any longer, I don't
think that is the correct one to use but rather "apache/groovy". Also,
while the Android Groovy Gradle plugin is no doubt a worthy recipient of
additional funds, I would be inclined to keep it simple and focus on core
Groovy for now. We can create additional collectives for other Gradle/IDE
plugins if this one proves successful.
(2) According to official Apache policy, the ASF doesn't accept "cash for
code", so this would need to be a community-driven effort rather than an
official Apache organised activity. The wording could say "Friends of
Groovy", or "All Things Groovy" (to mimic the facebook group) or "Gr8
Technologies" rather than "Apache Groovy project" or similar. We can ask
for clarification from Apache marketing/legal but probably easiest if we
have something to show them and ask what might need to be changed.
(3) Having stated (2), it is still the project's responsibility to protect
the Groovy trademark and Apache/Groovy "brands". I suspect, we (as the
Apache project) would need to maintain oversight of the collective to make
sure of this. As far as I know this is slightly uncharted territory. I
would propose to include some proposal in the collective wording along the
lines of "there will always be someone from the Apache Groovy Project
actively involved in the collective". We can run this by the Apache board
and adapt if needed.
(4) While sponsorship is below what we'd like and below what it has been
at some previous points in Groovy life, it isn't 0. We have several
existing sponsors, e.g. OCI. The wording about the collective should take
that into consideration. Perhaps some wording along the lines of "this is
to augment any direct sponsorships from individual companies".
Cheers, Paul.
On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:56 PM 孙 岚 <re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down its
steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more
resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2,
async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully without
warnings, etc.
I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming language,
which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor developing
Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every year, something is
better than nothing!
Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the
following snapshots show). "OSC will assist in managing the funds of the
Fund; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse the net income
and principal for purposes of the Project as specifically set forth in the
Protocols."(SEE the details in attachment 1)
As groovy/groovy-core is not my personal project, so I am requesting
permission from you before I create open collective. To be frank, I am not
sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I send the email as a
Groovy enthusiast(not a Apache committer) via my own hotmail(not the
apache mail). I wish we could create open collective for Groovy
programming language in the name of Groovy Community.
FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
1, babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
2, asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
3, jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
4, vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
5, mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
Steps to create open collective for Groovy
(Terms & Conditions details can be found in the attachments of this email)
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Owen Rubel <or...@gmail.com>.
Would be more than happy to contribute to open collective. The openness is
vital. There have been too many decisions that have been made that have
closed off the community entirely to the detriment of projects.
OCI itself does not realize that gated communities like Slack are not
searchable, can have their content removed and censored on developers whims
(and have) and the moderators do not follow their own guidelines.
Of note, I have sent suggestion and talked to github 'sponsors' team about
having a credit card (like prime) so that points can be added as
contributions to open source projects. Its as simple as 1% of all purchases
going to your favorite open source project. This would be hugely beneficial.
The second thing I would suggest: stop building binaries for free. Remember
MAKE files? Charge people $1-2 through the sponsor program for prebuilt
binaries but ALWAYS provide source code and MAKE instructions for free.
Only hardcore people (or people who really need to build from source) won't
pay for the binary. You can even make this a sliding scale based on region;
people in Somalia may not have that dollar so it can easily be waved.
Always charge for convenience: people will pay even a minimum for
convenience.
There are a ton of ways to get support and build out a support program for
even a small team.
Owen Rubel
orubel@gmail.com
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 7:59 PM Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au> wrote:
> Some points:
>
> (1) Since we don't use the "groovy/groovy-core" repo any longer, I don't
> think that is the correct one to use but rather "apache/groovy". Also,
> while the Android Groovy Gradle plugin is no doubt a worthy recipient of
> additional funds, I would be inclined to keep it simple and focus on core
> Groovy for now. We can create additional collectives for other Gradle/IDE
> plugins if this one proves successful.
> (2) According to official Apache policy, the ASF doesn't accept "cash for
> code", so this would need to be a community-driven effort rather than an
> official Apache organised activity. The wording could say "Friends of
> Groovy", or "All Things Groovy" (to mimic the facebook group) or "Gr8
> Technologies" rather than "Apache Groovy project" or similar. We can ask
> for clarification from Apache marketing/legal but probably easiest if we
> have something to show them and ask what might need to be changed.
> (3) Having stated (2), it is still the project's responsibility to protect
> the Groovy trademark and Apache/Groovy "brands". I suspect, we (as the
> Apache project) would need to maintain oversight of the collective to make
> sure of this. As far as I know this is slightly uncharted territory. I
> would propose to include some proposal in the collective wording along the
> lines of "there will always be someone from the Apache Groovy Project
> actively involved in the collective". We can run this by the Apache board
> and adapt if needed.
> (4) While sponsorship is below what we'd like and below what it has been
> at some previous points in Groovy life, it isn't 0. We have several
> existing sponsors, e.g. OCI. The wording about the collective should take
> that into consideration. Perhaps some wording along the lines of "this is
> to augment any direct sponsorships from individual companies".
>
> Cheers, Paul.
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:56 PM 孙 岚 <re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down its
>> steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more
>> resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2,
>> async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully without
>> warnings, etc.
>>
>> I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming
>> language, which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor
>> developing Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every year, something
>> is better than nothing!
>>
>> Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the
>> following snapshots show). "*OSC will assist in managing the funds of
>> the Fund*; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse the net
>> income and principal for purposes of the Project as specifically set forth
>> in the Protocols."(SEE the details in attachment 1)
>>
>> As *groovy/groovy-core* is not my personal project, so I am
>> requesting permission from you before I create open collective. To be
>> frank, I am not sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I send
>> the email as a *Groovy enthusiast*(not a Apache committer) via my own
>> hotmail(not the apache mail). I wish we could create open collective for *Groovy
>> programming language* in the name of *Groovy Community*.
>>
>> FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
>> 1, babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
>> 2, asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
>> 3, jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
>> 4, vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
>> 5, mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>> *Steps to create open collective for Groovy*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (*Terms & Conditions* details can be found in the attachments of this
>> email)
>>
>>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by "Daniel.Sun" <su...@apache.org>.
Hi MG,
I sent the email to user mailing list as well. Thanks for your sharing
thoughts :)
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
-----
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>.
Some points:
(1) Since we don't use the "groovy/groovy-core" repo any longer, I don't
think that is the correct one to use but rather "apache/groovy". Also,
while the Android Groovy Gradle plugin is no doubt a worthy recipient of
additional funds, I would be inclined to keep it simple and focus on core
Groovy for now. We can create additional collectives for other Gradle/IDE
plugins if this one proves successful.
(2) According to official Apache policy, the ASF doesn't accept "cash for
code", so this would need to be a community-driven effort rather than an
official Apache organised activity. The wording could say "Friends of
Groovy", or "All Things Groovy" (to mimic the facebook group) or "Gr8
Technologies" rather than "Apache Groovy project" or similar. We can ask
for clarification from Apache marketing/legal but probably easiest if we
have something to show them and ask what might need to be changed.
(3) Having stated (2), it is still the project's responsibility to protect
the Groovy trademark and Apache/Groovy "brands". I suspect, we (as the
Apache project) would need to maintain oversight of the collective to make
sure of this. As far as I know this is slightly uncharted territory. I
would propose to include some proposal in the collective wording along the
lines of "there will always be someone from the Apache Groovy Project
actively involved in the collective". We can run this by the Apache board
and adapt if needed.
(4) While sponsorship is below what we'd like and below what it has been at
some previous points in Groovy life, it isn't 0. We have several existing
sponsors, e.g. OCI. The wording about the collective should take that into
consideration. Perhaps some wording along the lines of "this is to augment
any direct sponsorships from individual companies".
Cheers, Paul.
On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:56 PM 孙 岚 <re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down its
> steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more
> resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2,
> async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully without
> warnings, etc.
>
> I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming language,
> which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor developing
> Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every year, something is
> better than nothing!
>
> Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the
> following snapshots show). "*OSC will assist in managing the funds of
> the Fund*; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse the net
> income and principal for purposes of the Project as specifically set forth
> in the Protocols."(SEE the details in attachment 1)
>
> As *groovy/groovy-core* is not my personal project, so I am
> requesting permission from you before I create open collective. To be
> frank, I am not sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I send
> the email as a *Groovy enthusiast*(not a Apache committer) via my own
> hotmail(not the apache mail). I wish we could create open collective for *Groovy
> programming language* in the name of *Groovy Community*.
>
> FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
> 1, babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
> 2, asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
> 3, jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
> 4, vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
> 5, mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
> *Steps to create open collective for Groovy*
>
>
>
>
>
> (*Terms & Conditions* details can be found in the attachments of this
> email)
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by MG <mg...@arscreat.com>.
(PS: Sorry, just saw the dev post and immediately replied to that...)
Am 08.01.2019 um 22:35 schrieb MG:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> totally agree, great initiative, all for it.
> I would hope a lot of the many Groovy users would give a little, than
> it should be easy to get some solid base funding for Groovy.
> To the Elders of Groovy: Unless you have some serious concerns, please
> don't overthink/overoptimize this and let's just go ahead with it :-)
>
> Cheers,
> mg
>
>
> Am 08.01.2019 um 03:55 schrieb 孙 岚:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down
>> its steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more
>> resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2,
>> async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully
>> without warnings, etc.
>>
>> I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming
>> language, which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor
>> developing Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every
>> year, something is better than nothing!
>>
>> Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the
>> following snapshots show). "_*OSC* will assist in managing the funds
>> of the Fund_; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse
>> the net income and principal for purposes of the Project as
>> specifically set forth in the Protocols."(SEE the details in
>> attachment 1)
>>
>> As _groovy/groovy-core_ is not my personal project, so I am
>> requesting permission from you before I create open collective. To be
>> frank, I am not sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I
>> send the email as a _Groovy enthusiast_(not a Apache committer) via
>> my own hotmail(not the apache mail). I wish we could create open
>> collective for _Groovy programming language_ in the name of _Groovy
>> Community_.
>>
>> FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
>> 1, babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
>> 2, asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
>> 3, jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
>> 4, vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
>> 5, mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>> *Steps to create open collective for Groovy*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (_Terms & Conditions_ details can be found in the attachments of this
>> email)
>>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by MG <mg...@arscreat.com>.
(PS: Sorry, just saw the dev post and immediately replied to that...)
Am 08.01.2019 um 22:35 schrieb MG:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> totally agree, great initiative, all for it.
> I would hope a lot of the many Groovy users would give a little, than
> it should be easy to get some solid base funding for Groovy.
> To the Elders of Groovy: Unless you have some serious concerns, please
> don't overthink/overoptimize this and let's just go ahead with it :-)
>
> Cheers,
> mg
>
>
> Am 08.01.2019 um 03:55 schrieb 孙 岚:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down
>> its steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more
>> resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2,
>> async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully
>> without warnings, etc.
>>
>> I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming
>> language, which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor
>> developing Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every
>> year, something is better than nothing!
>>
>> Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the
>> following snapshots show). "_*OSC* will assist in managing the funds
>> of the Fund_; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse
>> the net income and principal for purposes of the Project as
>> specifically set forth in the Protocols."(SEE the details in
>> attachment 1)
>>
>> As _groovy/groovy-core_ is not my personal project, so I am
>> requesting permission from you before I create open collective. To be
>> frank, I am not sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I
>> send the email as a _Groovy enthusiast_(not a Apache committer) via
>> my own hotmail(not the apache mail). I wish we could create open
>> collective for _Groovy programming language_ in the name of _Groovy
>> Community_.
>>
>> FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
>> 1, babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
>> 2, asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
>> 3, jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
>> 4, vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
>> 5, mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>> *Steps to create open collective for Groovy*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (_Terms & Conditions_ details can be found in the attachments of this
>> email)
>>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by MG <mg...@arscreat.com>.
Hi Daniel,
totally agree, great initiative, all for it.
I would hope a lot of the many Groovy users would give a little, than it
should be easy to get some solid base funding for Groovy.
To the Elders of Groovy: Unless you have some serious concerns, please
don't overthink/overoptimize this and let's just go ahead with it :-)
Cheers,
mg
Am 08.01.2019 um 03:55 schrieb 孙 岚:
> Hi all,
>
> As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down its
> steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more
> resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2,
> async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully
> without warnings, etc.
>
> I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming
> language, which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor
> developing Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every year,
> something is better than nothing!
>
> Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the
> following snapshots show). "_*OSC* will assist in managing the funds
> of the Fund_; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse the
> net income and principal for purposes of the Project as specifically
> set forth in the Protocols."(SEE the details in attachment 1)
>
> As _groovy/groovy-core_ is not my personal project, so I am
> requesting permission from you before I create open collective. To be
> frank, I am not sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I
> send the email as a _Groovy enthusiast_(not a Apache committer) via my
> own hotmail(not the apache mail). I wish we could create open
> collective for _Groovy programming language_ in the name of _Groovy
> Community_.
>
> FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
> 1, babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
> 2, asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
> 3, jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
> 4, vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
> 5, mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
> *Steps to create open collective for Groovy*
>
>
>
>
> (_Terms & Conditions_ details can be found in the attachments of this
> email)
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by MG <mg...@arscreat.com>.
Hi Daniel,
totally agree, great initiative, all for it.
I would hope a lot of the many Groovy users would give a little, than it
should be easy to get some solid base funding for Groovy.
To the Elders of Groovy: Unless you have some serious concerns, please
don't overthink/overoptimize this and let's just go ahead with it :-)
Cheers,
mg
Am 08.01.2019 um 03:55 schrieb 孙 岚:
> Hi all,
>
> As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down its
> steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more
> resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2,
> async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully
> without warnings, etc.
>
> I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming
> language, which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor
> developing Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every year,
> something is better than nothing!
>
> Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the
> following snapshots show). "_*OSC* will assist in managing the funds
> of the Fund_; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse the
> net income and principal for purposes of the Project as specifically
> set forth in the Protocols."(SEE the details in attachment 1)
>
> As _groovy/groovy-core_ is not my personal project, so I am
> requesting permission from you before I create open collective. To be
> frank, I am not sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I
> send the email as a _Groovy enthusiast_(not a Apache committer) via my
> own hotmail(not the apache mail). I wish we could create open
> collective for _Groovy programming language_ in the name of _Groovy
> Community_.
>
> FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
> 1, babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
> 2, asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
> 3, jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
> 4, vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
> 5, mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
> *Steps to create open collective for Groovy*
>
>
>
>
> (_Terms & Conditions_ details can be found in the attachments of this
> email)
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by "Daniel.Sun" <su...@apache.org>.
No response util now...
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
-----
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Daniel Sun <re...@hotmail.com>.
Hi Paul,
Thanks a lot for your hard work to make the proposal come true!
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>.
The site is open and ready for business:
https://opencollective.com/friends-of-groovy
The wording is subject to continued evolution so let us know your thoughts.
Cheers, Paul.
On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 4:37 AM MG <mg...@arscreat.com> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> these are good news indeed... ! G-)
>
> Cheers,
> mg
>
>
> On 21/02/2019 12:05, Paul King wrote:
>
> I have created a draft open collective site here:
>
> https://opencollective.com/friends-of-groovy
>
> I expect to hear back from the open collective folks in early March as to
> whether they have accepted the proposal.
>
> Also, I have had mainly positive feedback from the ASF trademarks folks
> and the board. I have a few minor things to tweak but nothing major as far
> as I can tell.
>
> The board would like us to keep them and others at the ASF informed of how
> we progress. So it looks like this might get off the ground soon! Exciting
> news!
>
> Regards, Paul.
>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 6:10 AM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 12:25 AM Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> > I was interested in a statement on the first page that would entice me
>>> to
>>> contribute.
>>>
>>> You mean the first page is groovy-lang.org ?
>>>
>>
>> That would be nice, but at least on the Open Collective landing page.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by MG <mg...@arscreat.com>.
Hi Paul,
these are good news indeed... ! G-)
Cheers,
mg
On 21/02/2019 12:05, Paul King wrote:
> I have created a draft open collective site here:
>
> https://opencollective.com/friends-of-groovy
>
> I expect to hear back from the open collective folks in early March as
> to whether they have accepted the proposal.
>
> Also, I have had mainly positive feedback from the ASF trademarks
> folks and the board. I have a few minor things to tweak but nothing
> major as far as I can tell.
>
> The board would like us to keep them and others at the ASF informed of
> how we progress. So it looks like this might get off the ground soon!
> Exciting news!
>
> Regards, Paul.
>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 6:10 AM Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org
> <ma...@shaposhnik.org>> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 12:25 AM Daniel.Sun <sunlan@apache.org
> <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
>
> > I was interested in a statement on the first page that would
> entice me to
> contribute.
>
> You mean the first page is groovy-lang.org
> <http://groovy-lang.org> ?
>
>
> That would be nice, but at least on the Open Collective landing page.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>.
I have created a draft open collective site here:
https://opencollective.com/friends-of-groovy
I expect to hear back from the open collective folks in early March as to
whether they have accepted the proposal.
Also, I have had mainly positive feedback from the ASF trademarks folks and
the board. I have a few minor things to tweak but nothing major as far as
I can tell.
The board would like us to keep them and others at the ASF informed of how
we progress. So it looks like this might get off the ground soon! Exciting
news!
Regards, Paul.
On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 6:10 AM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 12:25 AM Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> > I was interested in a statement on the first page that would entice me
>> to
>> contribute.
>>
>> You mean the first page is groovy-lang.org ?
>>
>
> That would be nice, but at least on the Open Collective landing page.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 12:25 AM Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> wrote:
> > I was interested in a statement on the first page that would entice me to
> contribute.
>
> You mean the first page is groovy-lang.org ?
>
That would be nice, but at least on the Open Collective landing page.
Thanks,
Roman.
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by "Daniel.Sun" <su...@apache.org>.
> I was interested in a statement on the first page that would entice me to
contribute.
You mean the first page is groovy-lang.org ?
@paulk_asert
Paul, can we add some link with some statement about the open collective in
the home page? It seems similar to advertising GR8Conf.
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
-----
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by "Daniel.Sun" <su...@apache.org>.
Hi Roman,
You can find the Open Collective information in the project home page:
https://github.com/apache/groovy
I am not sure whether it would entice me to contribute ;-)
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
-----
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
True, but this is a post-factum view. I was interested in a statement on
the first page that would entice me to contribute.
Thanks,
Roman.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:33 PM Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> wrote:
> The opencollective site will record all "contribute" and "submit
> expense", which is open to all people, e.g.
> https://opencollective.com/vuejs#budget
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Apache Groovy committer
> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by "Daniel.Sun" <su...@apache.org>.
The opencollective site will record all "contribute" and "submit
expense", which is open to all people, e.g.
https://opencollective.com/vuejs#budget
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
-----
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Marcin Erdmann <ma...@proxerd.pl>.
On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 3:02 PM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:
> On a side of somebody who may consider donating -- I'd also like to see a
> clearly
> articulated statement of how the money received will be spent.
>
>
I'd be interested in that too.
Cheers,
Marcin
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 6:30 PM Jennifer Strater <je...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Roman,
>
> This thread is about finding out whether we are allowed to use
> OpenSourceCollective(OSC) to fund/reward contributions to the Apache Groovy
> project. The response we are expecting is an unconditional yes, yes with
> clearly defined conditions, or no.
>
The way I see it is this: it is all about how you frame it. The framing
that is very likely
to pass VP Brand test is this: you register an organization there that is
clearly
NOT affiliated with ASF. Call it "Friends of Apache Groovy" or something.
Then in
the short blurb you disclaim the relationship even further.
That's the ASF side.
On a side of somebody who may consider donating -- I'd also like to see a
clearly
articulated statement of how the money received will be spent.
Thanks,
Roman.
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 4:01 AM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jennifer Strater <je...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Was there a response from the Apache foundation? And as always, just
>>> let me know if I can help.
>>>
>>
>> What kind of a response are you looking for?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Jenn
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann <
>>> marcin.erdmann@proxerd.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or a
>>>> committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective if
>>>> that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up
>>>> and run it without violating anything.
>>>>
>>>> Marcin
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau <
>>>> cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As
>>>>> a Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one
>>>>> developer full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to
>>>>> have a collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the
>>>>> same: we, as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no
>>>>> entity is coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC
>>>>> members from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by
>>>>> the ASF. As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for
>>>>> permission from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this
>>>>> collective is not affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me
>>>>> to do it is that effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the
>>>>> collective, otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF
>>>>> itself is looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a
>>>>> specific project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all
>>>>> benefit from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any
>>>>> other project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be
>>>>> affiliated to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy,
>>>>> feel free to do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing.
>>>>> This can make it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a
>>>>> GitHub repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
>>>>> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
>>>>> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
>>>>> respected by preventing you to use this repository.
>>>>>
>>>>> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
>>>>> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> a
>>>>> écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> My pleasure :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to
>>>>>> encourage
>>>>>> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on
>>>>>> Groovy
>>>>>> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to
>>>>>> earn
>>>>>> additional money for some reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Daniel.Sun
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> Apache Groovy committer
>>>>>> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
>>>>>> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Jennifer Strater <je...@gmail.com>.
Hi Roman,
This thread is about finding out whether we are allowed to use
OpenSourceCollective(OSC) to fund/reward contributions to the Apache Groovy
project. The response we are expecting is an unconditional yes, yes with
clearly defined conditions, or no.
Best,
Jenn
On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 4:01 AM Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jennifer Strater <je...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Was there a response from the Apache foundation? And as always, just let
>> me know if I can help.
>>
>
> What kind of a response are you looking for?
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
>
>>
>> Best,
>> Jenn
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann <
>> marcin.erdmann@proxerd.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or a
>>> committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective if
>>> that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up
>>> and run it without violating anything.
>>>
>>> Marcin
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau <
>>> cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As
>>>> a Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>>>>
>>>> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
>>>> full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
>>>> collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
>>>> as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
>>>> coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
>>>> from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
>>>> As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
>>>> from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
>>>> affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
>>>> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
>>>> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
>>>> looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
>>>> project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
>>>> from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
>>>> project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
>>>> to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
>>>> do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
>>>> it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
>>>> repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
>>>> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
>>>> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
>>>> respected by preventing you to use this repository.
>>>>
>>>> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
>>>> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> My pleasure :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to
>>>>> encourage
>>>>> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on
>>>>> Groovy
>>>>> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to
>>>>> earn
>>>>> additional money for some reason.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Daniel.Sun
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Apache Groovy committer
>>>>> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
>>>>> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>>>>>
>>>>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jennifer Strater <je...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Was there a response from the Apache foundation? And as always, just let
> me know if I can help.
>
What kind of a response are you looking for?
Thanks,
Roman.
>
> Best,
> Jenn
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann <ma...@proxerd.pl>
> wrote:
>
>> Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or a
>> committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective if
>> that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up
>> and run it without violating anything.
>>
>> Marcin
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau <
>> cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As a
>>> Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>>>
>>> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
>>> full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
>>> collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
>>> as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
>>> coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
>>> from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
>>> As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
>>> from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
>>> affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
>>> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
>>> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
>>> looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
>>> project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
>>> from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
>>> project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
>>> to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
>>> do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
>>> it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
>>> repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
>>> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
>>> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
>>> respected by preventing you to use this repository.
>>>
>>> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
>>> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>>>
>>>
>>> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> My pleasure :-)
>>>>
>>>> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
>>>> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
>>>> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to
>>>> earn
>>>> additional money for some reason.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Daniel.Sun
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Apache Groovy committer
>>>> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
>>>> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>>>>
>>>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by MG <mg...@arscreat.com>.
Was also wondering about that...
The funding topic has been brought up several times and it always seems
to go back to sleep without any progress, so hope this time will be
different.
I feel it should not be this hard to give some money to the project one
likes, just because it is a Apache project ;-)
Maybe automatically rerouting, say, 5% of the money donated to the ASF
could be another answer for the whole ASF trademark etc issue ?-)
Cheers,
mg
Am 19.01.2019 um 14:48 schrieb Jennifer Strater:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Was there a response from the Apache foundation? And as always, just
> let me know if I can help.
>
> Best,
> Jenn
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann
> <marcin.erdmann@proxerd.pl <ma...@proxerd.pl>> wrote:
>
> Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or
> a committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the
> collective if that helps. Of course only after we figure out how
> to actually set it up and run it without violating anything.
>
> Marcin
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau
> <cedric.champeau@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and
> support it. As a Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I
> have some things to say.
>
> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one
> developer full time to develop Groovy and contribute features
> than it is to have a collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The
> process of integration is the same: we, as PMC members, must
> make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
> coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have
> PMC members from different companies. Second, Groovy is a
> brand name owned by the ASF. As such, you should not use
> "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission from legal. It
> should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
> affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do
> it is that effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part
> of the collective, otherwise there's a conflict of interest.
> Especially, the ASF itself is looking for donations, and
> donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific project. There
> are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit from
> the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any
> other project). So it's clear to be that this collective must
> not be affiliated to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for
> developing Groovy, feel free to do it, but it should never
> mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make it rather
> complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
> repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy`
> is an old repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure
> its trademarks are respected by preventing you to use this
> repository.
>
> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way
> to do it which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>
>
> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun <sunlan@apache.org
> <ma...@apache.org>> a écrit :
>
> My pleasure :-)
>
> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the
> rules to encourage
> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no
> time on Groovy
> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe
> they want to earn
> additional money for some reason.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Apache Groovy committer
> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>
> --
> Sent from:
> http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Jennifer Strater <je...@gmail.com>.
Hi everyone,
Was there a response from the Apache foundation? And as always, just let
me know if I can help.
Best,
Jenn
On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann <ma...@proxerd.pl>
wrote:
> Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or a
> committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective if
> that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up
> and run it without violating anything.
>
> Marcin
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau <ce...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As a
>> Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>>
>> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
>> full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
>> collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
>> as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
>> coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
>> from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
>> As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
>> from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
>> affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
>> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
>> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
>> looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
>> project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
>> from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
>> project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
>> to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
>> do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
>> it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
>> repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
>> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
>> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
>> respected by preventing you to use this repository.
>>
>> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
>> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>>
>>
>> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> a écrit :
>>
>>> My pleasure :-)
>>>
>>> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
>>> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
>>> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to earn
>>> additional money for some reason.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Daniel.Sun
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Apache Groovy committer
>>> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
>>> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>>>
>>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Marcin Erdmann <ma...@proxerd.pl>.
Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or a
committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective if
that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up
and run it without violating anything.
Marcin
On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau <ce...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As a
> Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>
> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
> full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
> collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
> as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
> coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
> from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
> As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
> from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
> affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
> looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
> project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
> from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
> project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
> to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
> do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
> it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
> repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
> respected by preventing you to use this repository.
>
> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>
>
> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> a écrit :
>
>> My pleasure :-)
>>
>> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
>> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
>> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to earn
>> additional money for some reason.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Apache Groovy committer
>> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
>> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Alessio Stalla <al...@gmail.com>.
For 4. (sponsoring individual developers and encouraging developers to
participate) have you considered BountySource?
On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 00:46, MG <mg...@arscreat.com> wrote:
> Some thoughts from my side:
>
> 1. Do we know of any other ASF projects who gathers donations ? Would
> be surprising if we were the first to face these questions...
> 2. Also wondering if the following would avoid legal pitfalls: Ask for
> donations for "The Groovy Language", an abstract language concept, which
> has as reference implementation "Apache Groovy" on the JVM platform ?
> 3. If Open Collective is bound to a GitHub repo etc, then going with
> a Patreon o.s. might be the obvious alternative with looser coupling to
> trademarks.
> 4. Another idea would be to sponsor individual developers directly. I
> know my son's (American) football team had something like that for their
> European league level players at some point. I know this does not align
> completely with Daniel's intentions of getting more people to actively
> participate, but since it is very similar to a company paying a Groovy
> developer, it would probably avoid all legal pitfalls.
>
> Cheers,
> mg
>
>
> Am 10.01.2019 um 09:20 schrieb Cédric Champeau:
>
> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As a
> Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>
> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
> full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
> collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
> as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
> coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
> from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
> As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
> from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
> affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
> looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
> project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
> from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
> project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
> to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
> do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
> it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
> repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
> respected by preventing you to use this repository.
>
> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>
>
> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> a écrit :
>
>> My pleasure :-)
>>
>> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
>> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
>> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to earn
>> additional money for some reason.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Apache Groovy committer
>> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
>> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>>
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by MG <mg...@arscreat.com>.
Some thoughts from my side:
1. Do we know of any other ASF projects who gathers donations ? Would
be surprising if we were the first to face these questions...
2. Also wondering if the following would avoid legal pitfalls: Ask for
donations for "The Groovy Language", an abstract language concept,
which has as reference implementation "Apache Groovy" on the JVM
platform ?
3. If Open Collective is bound to a GitHub repo etc, then going with a
Patreon o.s. might be the obvious alternative with looser coupling
to trademarks.
4. Another idea would be to sponsor individual developers directly. I
know my son's (American) football team had something like that for
their European league level players at some point. I know this does
not align completely with Daniel's intentions of getting more people
to actively participate, but since it is very similar to a company
paying a Groovy developer, it would probably avoid all legal pitfalls.
Cheers,
mg
Am 10.01.2019 um 09:20 schrieb Cédric Champeau:
> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As
> a Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>
> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one
> developer full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it
> is to have a collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of
> integration is the same: we, as PMC members, must make sure neutrality
> is followed and that no entity is coercing Groovy for its own needs.
> That's why we try to have PMC members from different companies.
> Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF. As such, you should
> not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission from legal. It
> should also be extremely clear that this collective is not affiliated
> with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself
> is looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a
> specific project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we
> all benefit from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation,
> as any other project). So it's clear to be that this collective must
> not be affiliated to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for
> developing Groovy, feel free to do it, but it should never mention
> that it's an Apache thing. This can make it rather complicated with
> open collective as it requires a GitHub repository with stars. I feel
> you will NOT be allowed to use `apache/groovy` for the reasons I
> described. `groovy/groovy` is an old repo, and in any case, the ASF
> may want to make sure its trademarks are respected by preventing you
> to use this repository.
>
> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>
>
> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun <sunlan@apache.org
> <ma...@apache.org>> a écrit :
>
> My pleasure :-)
>
> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to
> encourage
> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on
> Groovy
> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want
> to earn
> additional money for some reason.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Apache Groovy committer
> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Daniel Sun <re...@hotmail.com>.
Agreed. Thanks for your advice. We MUST avoid problems about trademarks or
ASF ownership.
Currently I am waiting for Paul's consulting result about how to create the
open collective and conform to the Apache policy :-)
To make the idea clear, the reason why I propose to create the open
collective is to appeal more people to contribute Groovy. The potential
contributors may be busy at work time and tired after work, so they have no
spare time to contribute, but they maybe want to earn additional money for
some reason.
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Cédric Champeau <ce...@gmail.com>.
My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As a
Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
`apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
respected by preventing you to use this repository.
Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun <su...@apache.org> a écrit :
> My pleasure :-)
>
> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to earn
> additional money for some reason.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Apache Groovy committer
> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by "Daniel.Sun" <su...@apache.org>.
My pleasure :-)
Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to earn
additional money for some reason.
Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
-----
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun
--
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Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Marcin Erdmann <ma...@proxerd.pl>.
Great initiative, Daniel, thanks.
I know of at least one situation where a company wanted to contribute to
Groovy development in a monetary way but it was somewhat unclear of how to
actually implement it and it fell through the cracks. Having something like
the collective you're proposing would definitely make it easier and would
not require a company to sponsor a specific contributor. It would allow
multiple companies to put money into a pot which could then be used by
contributors who have the capacity and whenever their personal
circumstances allow them to work on development of the language.
Marcin
On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 2:56 AM 孙 岚 <re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down its
> steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more
> resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2,
> async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully without
> warnings, etc.
>
> I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming language,
> which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor developing
> Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every year, something is
> better than nothing!
>
> Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the
> following snapshots show). "*OSC will assist in managing the funds of
> the Fund*; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse the net
> income and principal for purposes of the Project as specifically set forth
> in the Protocols."(SEE the details in attachment 1)
>
> As *groovy/groovy-core* is not my personal project, so I am
> requesting permission from you before I create open collective. To be
> frank, I am not sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I send
> the email as a *Groovy enthusiast*(not a Apache committer) via my own
> hotmail(not the apache mail). I wish we could create open collective for *Groovy
> programming language* in the name of *Groovy Community*.
>
> FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
> 1, babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
> 2, asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
> 3, jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
> 4, vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
> 5, mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
> *Steps to create open collective for Groovy*
>
>
>
>
>
> (*Terms & Conditions* details can be found in the attachments of this
> email)
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming
language in the name of Groovy Community
Posted by Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>.
Some points:
(1) Since we don't use the "groovy/groovy-core" repo any longer, I don't
think that is the correct one to use but rather "apache/groovy". Also,
while the Android Groovy Gradle plugin is no doubt a worthy recipient of
additional funds, I would be inclined to keep it simple and focus on core
Groovy for now. We can create additional collectives for other Gradle/IDE
plugins if this one proves successful.
(2) According to official Apache policy, the ASF doesn't accept "cash for
code", so this would need to be a community-driven effort rather than an
official Apache organised activity. The wording could say "Friends of
Groovy", or "All Things Groovy" (to mimic the facebook group) or "Gr8
Technologies" rather than "Apache Groovy project" or similar. We can ask
for clarification from Apache marketing/legal but probably easiest if we
have something to show them and ask what might need to be changed.
(3) Having stated (2), it is still the project's responsibility to protect
the Groovy trademark and Apache/Groovy "brands". I suspect, we (as the
Apache project) would need to maintain oversight of the collective to make
sure of this. As far as I know this is slightly uncharted territory. I
would propose to include some proposal in the collective wording along the
lines of "there will always be someone from the Apache Groovy Project
actively involved in the collective". We can run this by the Apache board
and adapt if needed.
(4) While sponsorship is below what we'd like and below what it has been at
some previous points in Groovy life, it isn't 0. We have several existing
sponsors, e.g. OCI. The wording about the collective should take that into
consideration. Perhaps some wording along the lines of "this is to augment
any direct sponsorships from individual companies".
Cheers, Paul.
On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:56 PM 孙 岚 <re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As we all know, Groovy is lack of sponsorship and slows down its
> steps since Pivotal stopped sponsoring in 2014. Groovy needs more
> resources to complete big features and fix hard issues, e.g. MOP2,
> async/await, Refining generics of STC, Supporting Java11+ fully without
> warnings, etc.
>
> I propose to create open collective for Groovy programming language,
> which can help Groovy Community to collect money to sponsor developing
> Groovy. Even if the collected money is very few every year, something is
> better than nothing!
>
> Here are 2 steps to create open collective for Groovy(as the
> following snapshots show). "*OSC will assist in managing the funds of
> the Fund*; it will collect the income and will pay and disburse the net
> income and principal for purposes of the Project as specifically set forth
> in the Protocols."(SEE the details in attachment 1)
>
> As *groovy/groovy-core* is not my personal project, so I am
> requesting permission from you before I create open collective. To be
> frank, I am not sure whether it conforms to the Apache policy, so I send
> the email as a *Groovy enthusiast*(not a Apache committer) via my own
> hotmail(not the apache mail). I wish we could create open collective for *Groovy
> programming language* in the name of *Groovy Community*.
>
> FYI, many open source projects have created open collective, e.g.
> 1, babel: https://opencollective.com/babel
> 2, asciidoctor: https://opencollective.com/asciidoctor
> 3, jhipster: https://opencollective.com/generator-jhipster
> 4, vuejs: https://opencollective.com/vuejs
> 5, mochajs: https://opencollective.com/mochajs
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
> *Steps to create open collective for Groovy*
>
>
>
>
>
> (*Terms & Conditions* details can be found in the attachments of this
> email)
>
>