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Posted to user@lenya.apache.org by Jovanka Pangestu <pa...@verizon.net> on 2004/01/31 20:37:09 UTC
Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Why do I get a 'page not published yet' screen when I login as editor
for the Lenya's weblog publication? I assume its supposed to take me to
the authoring screen?
- Jovanka
Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Rudi Strasser wrote:
> On Monday 02 February 2004 08:08, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Why is there a seperate xalan in the CVS in the first place ? It is included
> with cocoon anyway, right ?
Cocoon ships with 2.5.1, Lenya needs 2.5.0.
> Resolve those basic things as library dependencies first, before labeling
> something a release candidate. I always hear that one can not expect this ant
> that from a CVS version under development. Mostly, this does not hold, since
> there is a 1.2RC, which (at least I) do consider to be something like alpha
> or beta stage (probably I am totally wrong about that).
We don't have "alpha" or "beta" versions. Maybe one could
call RC1 "alpha" and RC2 "beta", but I have to admit that
I don't know if these terms have "official" meanings.
[...]
>>OK, how should this be handled? In CVS, we can't take the time
>>to mark everything as "not ready" which is work in progress.
>>In the release, we have to remove all access points to wip functions.
>>
>
> Exactly that is what CVS is for, if you change something you have the
> possibility to keep it private as long as you make most parts consistent
> before checking in the whole thing. That's what it is all about.
No, it doesn't work this way. If you collaborate on a component,
you can't wait until its stable before checking it in. A milestone
has to be stable, the CVS doesn't.
[...]
> At one event somebody remove a 'publish' ant task, because it had some
> shortcomings. At the same time an improved replacement was not introduced.
Yes - because otherwise it would require the same person
to do all of these changes.
> The result was a default application which was unable to publish a page until
> you stepped in and fixed it. Don't you agree that thing like that are
> unnecessary ?
You are right, such things shouldn't last that long.
In this special case, the problem was that I didn't notice
that something has been broken - a lack of communication and
work synchronisation.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions!
-- Andreas
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Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Rudi Strasser <ru...@gmx.de>.
On Monday 02 February 2004 08:08, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Rudi Strasser wrote:
> > I posted a message last week about that issue (please read earlier
> > messages)
> >
> > The original post was:
> >>I discovered to that 'blog' works if I use xalan-2.5.0 instead of
> >
> > xalan-2.5.1.
> >
> >>The 'page not published ...' message is gone and everything seems to work
> >>fine with the blog application.
> >>xalan-2.5.1 comes with cocoon-2.1.2, xalan-2.5.0 is in the Lenya CVS
> >>repository.
> >
Why is there a seperate xalan in the CVS in the first place ? It is included
with cocoon anyway, right ?
> > I actually really wonder why nobody of the developers is worried about
> > that, many newcomers have the same problems and even if people report
> > these problems as well as ways to fix them the developers seem to ignore
> > it.
>
> We are worried, but we didn't find a solution yet. When run with Jetty
> (which is the way to go for newbies), the correct libraries are used
> (aren't they)?
>
> > Apparently the Lenya developers are working with a different set of 'jar'
> > librararies than the ones included in the CVS.
>
> Why do you think so? I'm using exactly the CVS libraries.
Otherwise I would not expect xalan-2.5.0 to be in the CVS repository.
>
> > Otherwise I have a hard time
> > to imagine how all this can happen. So far, all the bugs and issues I
> > reported poped up for other users as well. In the beginning I thought it
> > is only me who faces these bugs.
> >
> > That is strange, very inefficient, and discouraging.
>
> Do you have suggestions how it could be improved?
Resolve those basic things as library dependencies first, before labeling
something a release candidate. I always hear that one can not expect this ant
that from a CVS version under development. Mostly, this does not hold, since
there is a 1.2RC, which (at least I) do consider to be something like alpha
or beta stage (probably I am totally wrong about that).
>
> > I read in the mailing list that only 2 bugs are left until Lenya 1.2 will
> > be released. Does that mean that all these known problems will be
> > released along with 1.2?
>
> I'm afraid more bugs will be found in the next release candidates.
> When we release only a "bug-free" version - which would be the very
> first bug-free piece of software in the world :) - we will never
> release. It's not black or white.
>
> > I doubt that Lenya will be too well received by people who check
> > it out and figure that the run into tons of problems. So they will turn
> > away and look for alternatives. Few of them will ever return to give it a
> > second try.
>
> We are very aware of this problem. But spending all our (the
> core developers) time fixing the problems is IMHO not the right
> way (and not possible). We should rather encourage users to
> help fixing, because they see that Lenya is really useful
> and "on the right way".
>
It is just very hard to get started.
> > Apparently, developers do not consider the sample publications to be part
> > of the distributions. In my opinion, their proper function is at least as
> > important as the proper function of the Lenya core is. However, at this
> > moment I never know if something is simply not implemented, or a bug,
> > etc.
>
> OK, how should this be handled? In CVS, we can't take the time
> to mark everything as "not ready" which is work in progress.
> In the release, we have to remove all access points to wip functions.
>
Exactly that is what CVS is for, if you change something you have the
possibility to keep it private as long as you make most parts consistent
before checking in the whole thing. That's what it is all about.
At one event somebody remove a 'publish' ant task, because it had some
shortcomings. At the same time an improved replacement was not introduced.
The result was a default application which was unable to publish a page until
you stepped in and fixed it. Don't you agree that thing like that are
unnecessary ?
/Rudi
> -- Andreas
>
>
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Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Rudi Strasser wrote:
> I posted a message last week about that issue (please read earlier messages)
>
> The original post was:
>
>>I discovered to that 'blog' works if I use xalan-2.5.0 instead of
> xalan-2.5.1.
>
>>The 'page not published ...' message is gone and everything seems to work
>>fine with the blog application.
>>xalan-2.5.1 comes with cocoon-2.1.2, xalan-2.5.0 is in the Lenya CVS
>>repository.
>
> I actually really wonder why nobody of the developers is worried about that,
> many newcomers have the same problems and even if people report these
> problems as well as ways to fix them the developers seem to ignore it.
We are worried, but we didn't find a solution yet. When run with Jetty
(which is the way to go for newbies), the correct libraries are used
(aren't they)?
> Apparently the Lenya developers are working with a different set of 'jar'
> librararies than the ones included in the CVS.
Why do you think so? I'm using exactly the CVS libraries.
> Otherwise I have a hard time
> to imagine how all this can happen. So far, all the bugs and issues I
> reported poped up for other users as well. In the beginning I thought it is
> only me who faces these bugs.
> That is strange, very inefficient, and discouraging.
Do you have suggestions how it could be improved?
> I read in the mailing list that only 2 bugs are left until Lenya 1.2 will be
> released. Does that mean that all these known problems will be released along
> with 1.2?
I'm afraid more bugs will be found in the next release candidates.
When we release only a "bug-free" version - which would be the very
first bug-free piece of software in the world :) - we will never
release. It's not black or white.
> I doubt that Lenya will be too well received by people who check
> it out and figure that the run into tons of problems. So they will turn away
> and look for alternatives. Few of them will ever return to give it a second
> try.
We are very aware of this problem. But spending all our (the
core developers) time fixing the problems is IMHO not the right
way (and not possible). We should rather encourage users to
help fixing, because they see that Lenya is really useful
and "on the right way".
> Apparently, developers do not consider the sample publications to be part of
> the distributions. In my opinion, their proper function is at least as
> important as the proper function of the Lenya core is. However, at this
> moment I never know if something is simply not implemented, or a bug, etc.
OK, how should this be handled? In CVS, we can't take the time
to mark everything as "not ready" which is work in progress.
In the release, we have to remove all access points to wip functions.
-- Andreas
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Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not
Published ?)
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ma...@rolf-kulemann.com>.
On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 20:59, Rudi Strasser wrote:
> Honestly, I feel a little uncomfortable adding bugs to the bugtracking system
> since I thought it is more a tool for the core developer. If that is not the
> case I will start to put my feedback into bugzilla.
Yes, please do so. It's fun and useful, if done right.
Bugzilla entries are products of testers and users, which are a valuable
developing resource paying off i.e in release management.
Bugzilla is - beside other things - a kind of a measure tool you can use
to measure, if a release is ready. It's ready, if bugzilla "says" no
more bugs to solve for release 1.2.
After one filed a bug, the committers can then decide how to handle the
bug i.e. confirm, assign or manage bugs in general. So the resource
"bugzilla entry" is used to catalyze further development steps.
Discussions get forgotten, only bugzilla entries remain :)
(This sentence is stolen and changed)
--
Regards,
Rolf Kulemann
Always remember:
"There is inherently no silver bullet." - F.Brooks
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Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?)
Posted by Rudi Strasser <ru...@gmx.de>.
On Sunday 01 February 2004 11:45, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
> > I actually really wonder why nobody of the developers is worried about
>
> that,
>
> > many newcomers have the same problems and even if people report these
> > problems as well as ways to fix them the developers seem to ignore it.
>
> I certainly know how frustrating it can be to install software and stumble
> upon problems without even doing anything special. But I think that your
> impression is not completely correct. Report bugs using the bugtracking
> system and they will not (and can not!) be ignored.
>
> See
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Lenya1.2
>
> > I read in the mailing list that only 2 bugs are left until Lenya 1.2 will
>
> be
>
> > released. Does that mean that all these known problems will be released
>
> along
>
> > with 1.2 ?
>
> At this moment 2 bugs are scheduled for resolution before 1.2 is released.
> In addition to that there are 4 new bugs for which a decision is required
> if they have to be resolved for 1.2 as well.
>
> Please also note that there are 41 entries (including feature requests)
> scheduled for the release of 1.4.
>
> To repeat myself: please use the bugtracking system to report bugs ! A bug
> is "known" if (and only if) there exists an entry for it in the bugtracking
> system.
Honestly, I feel a little uncomfortable adding bugs to the bugtracking system
since I thought it is more a tool for the core developer. If that is not the
case I will start to put my feedback into bugzilla.
I hope I am not coming over too negative. To make it clear: I really
appreciate Lenya and I am well aware that the developers are putting as much
efforts into it as they can. Nevertheless, my impression is that more
emphasis could be put on the newbie installation experience. And that would
not even be come at a real cost. Since I started to work with Lenya a couple
of weeks ago, many of these stumbling blocks have been removed ('jar'
confusions, etc.). But as of today there are diffenrent xalan versions
around. And those things definitely make a difference.
I am trying to get my feet under the table with Lenya (so that in the near
future I would be able to develop my own publications and eventually
contribute real code) for roughly four weeks now. But all I could do so far
is to install Lenya and play around a little bit with the default
publications, even though I really tried hard.
Many people would have given up with that string of troubles I was facing
until now. Only my (very, very, very nice) experiences with cocoon make me
confident that it will pay off in the long run.
/Rudi
>
> Cheers,
> Andreas
>
>
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Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not
Published ?)
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ma...@rolf-kulemann.com>.
On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 21:21, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> I've been trying to get lenya running for the last few hours now and I
> think the big problem here is that lenya assumes a particular version
> of cocoon checkout to compile against.
>
> I think this is the source of all the problems.
(Most of them?)
>
> The install documents are out of synch with reality. The build system
> expects tomcat but now lenya ships with ant.
Really true.
>
> Lenya depends on cocoon blocks without saying so (it depends on the
> "HTML" cocoon block that it was not compiled in because my
> local.blocks.properties removed it out.
>
> The build system is misfunctional since it expects a bunch of
> dependencies that are implicitly true and probably told word of mouth
> in between you guys.
At least two important issues with the Lenya installation docs:
- It's not written, that the users needs to copy local.*.properties to
cocoon from lenya/src/cocoon. (This sometimes really helps)
- Tell the user which cocoon version to use explicitly since Lenya does
not work with every 2.1 version of cocoon.
Another point is, since Lenya ships with Jetty, the installation docs
should reflect it.
We also should set up a trouble shooting area in the install docs.
(I still have no cvs account)
--
Regards,
Rolf Kulemann
Always remember:
"There is inherently no silver bullet." - F.Brooks
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Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?)
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> I'm not sure, but I think some of the developers can't work with
> Jetty.
So far I do not remember having seen any complaint here.
If there are Lenya developers or users who have problems with Jetty they
should say so and explain why Tomcat (or another servlet engine) is a better
alternative.
Cheers,
Andreas
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Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published
?)
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
[...]
OK, thanks for all your answers.
-- Andreas
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Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?)
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 3 Feb 2004, at 04:03, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
>> On 2 Feb 2004, at 09:49, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>>> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>> It's trivial to add tomcat installation support once you have jetty
>> setup.
>> "ant webapp" will create the web application. you can have a one
>> liner "ant -Dtomcat=/where/tomcat/is/ install-webapp" that will move
>> it over there. Or you can do just "cp -r build/webapp
>> /where/tomcat/is/webapps"
>> that's not so hard, is it?
>
> Not at all. That would just mean not to setup the path
> properties in build.properties.
>
> [...]
>
>>>
>>> OK, I'm curious - it seems to be quite tough to make Lenya work
>>> with CVS Cocoon.
>> really? why would that be? [curious]
>
> Because our previous updates to a new Cocoon version
> required some days of work ... But maybe it will be
> easier this time.
This is becaue you don't work with 'continuous integration' in mind and
prefer to freeze the dependencies. This is more and more turning out to
be a bad way to build software with a high level of dependencies (even
if, admittedly, this is very counter-intuitive)
> ATM, one issue is that I get a ClassCastException related
> to the ServiceSelector with 2.1.3. I didn't yet try to locate
> the cause of it. We still depend on the ECM; do we have to
> make familiar with new concepts used in Fortress,
> or won't this come before Cocoon 2.2? I have to admit that
> I lost track with the discussions on the cocoon-dev list.
cocoon-2.1 is completely back compatible. Fortress will come on 2.2
and, even at that point, it will be back compatible. I see no reason to
avoid keeping in synch with cocoon.
>
> [...]
>
>>> Does this mean that parts of the Cocoon build process
>>> are reused - less maintenance for us :) -, or just that
>>> we'll have a build process that follows the same principles
>>> (which we'll hopefully become familiar with soon)?
>> I'm trying to find a way to "reuse" the exact same cocoon build
>> process, but if that doesn't turn out to be duable (because it might
>> require some deep changes in cocoon's) then I'll just copy over and
>> tune it for lenya's needs.
>
> OK. In the second case - in the cocoon community, is there
> a certain person who maintains the build process?
no, it's a general effort.
> Maybe it
> would make sense to coordinate this work to keep the two
> processes similar to each other.
I'm the one who rewrote the cocoon build system for 2.1 and I'm
familiar with it. I'll try to see if they can live together.
--
Stefano.
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Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published
?)
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> On 2 Feb 2004, at 09:49, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
>> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>
> It's trivial to add tomcat installation support once you have jetty setup.
>
> "ant webapp" will create the web application. you can have a one liner
> "ant -Dtomcat=/where/tomcat/is/ install-webapp" that will move it over
> there. Or you can do just "cp -r build/webapp /where/tomcat/is/webapps"
>
> that's not so hard, is it?
Not at all. That would just mean not to setup the path
properties in build.properties.
[...]
>>
>> OK, I'm curious - it seems to be quite tough to make Lenya work
>> with CVS Cocoon.
>
> really? why would that be? [curious]
Because our previous updates to a new Cocoon version
required some days of work ... But maybe it will be
easier this time.
ATM, one issue is that I get a ClassCastException related
to the ServiceSelector with 2.1.3. I didn't yet try to locate
the cause of it. We still depend on the ECM; do we have to
make familiar with new concepts used in Fortress,
or won't this come before Cocoon 2.2? I have to admit that
I lost track with the discussions on the cocoon-dev list.
[...]
>> Does this mean that parts of the Cocoon build process
>> are reused - less maintenance for us :) -, or just that
>> we'll have a build process that follows the same principles
>> (which we'll hopefully become familiar with soon)?
>
>
> I'm trying to find a way to "reuse" the exact same cocoon build process,
> but if that doesn't turn out to be duable (because it might require some
> deep changes in cocoon's) then I'll just copy over and tune it for
> lenya's needs.
OK. In the second case - in the cocoon community, is there
a certain person who maintains the build process? Maybe it
would make sense to coordinate this work to keep the two
processes similar to each other.
-- Andreas
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Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?)
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 2 Feb 2004, at 09:49, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>> OK - what would you suggest? Would it make more sense to
>>> focus on Jetty and remove Tomcat dependencies, or make
>>> Tomcat the only supported servlet engine? I'm not sure,
>>> but I think some of the developers can't work with
>>> Jetty. Maintaining two build processes and their documentation
>>> is not that easy.
>> Jetty is *very* compliant to the Servlet API spec and, as far as I
>> know, faster, more lightweight and easier to use than Tomcat.
>> cocoon has been shipping jetty for a long time and nobody ever
>> complained (actually, a quite a few people tried jetty for their
>> development, tried it out, move to tomcat for production, then
>> switched back to jetty since memory usage is much more optimized
>> [tomcat 5.0 has improved though, but tomcat 4 is a beast])
>
> OK, it seems like abandoning Jetty is no option :)
> Should we nevertheless provide Tomcat installation
> options and documentation? But I think this question
> will be anwered in your upcoming build process.
It's trivial to add tomcat installation support once you have jetty
setup.
"ant webapp" will create the web application. you can have a one liner
"ant -Dtomcat=/where/tomcat/is/ install-webapp" that will move it over
there. Or you can do just "cp -r build/webapp /where/tomcat/is/webapps"
that's not so hard, is it?
>>>> Lenya depends on cocoon blocks without saying so (it depends on
>>>> the "HTML" cocoon block that it was not compiled in because my
>>>> local.blocks.properties removed it out.
>>>
>>> Yes, this is unfortunately true. For us it was much easier
>>> to ship local.*.properties than to take care of the
>>> compatibility issues. Do you think this is sufficient
>>> (if documented carefully)?
>> No, I think it sucks. But it's way easier for me to do it than to try
>> to explain to you why it does. I'm working on a new building system
>> for lenya as we speak.
>
> [...]
>
>> which is another thing that sucks. you should be keeping up with
>> cocoon day to day, not freeze on one particular instance that doesn't
>> change overtime.... this is the secret of continous integration and
>> gump can tell you right away if there is a problem (well, when we can
>> make gump run cocoon again)
>
> OK, I'm curious - it seems to be quite tough to make Lenya work
> with CVS Cocoon.
really? why would that be? [curious]
> I'll try to understand your changes.
>
> [...]
>
>> I'm working on a new build system that sits on top of cocoon's and
>> extends it.
>
> Does this mean that parts of the Cocoon build process
> are reused - less maintenance for us :) -, or just that
> we'll have a build process that follows the same principles
> (which we'll hopefully become familiar with soon)?
I'm trying to find a way to "reuse" the exact same cocoon build
process, but if that doesn't turn out to be duable (because it might
require some deep changes in cocoon's) then I'll just copy over and
tune it for lenya's needs.
--
Stefano.
Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published
?)
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
[...]
>> OK - what would you suggest? Would it make more sense to
>> focus on Jetty and remove Tomcat dependencies, or make
>> Tomcat the only supported servlet engine? I'm not sure,
>> but I think some of the developers can't work with
>> Jetty. Maintaining two build processes and their documentation
>> is not that easy.
>
> Jetty is *very* compliant to the Servlet API spec and, as far as I know,
> faster, more lightweight and easier to use than Tomcat.
>
> cocoon has been shipping jetty for a long time and nobody ever
> complained (actually, a quite a few people tried jetty for their
> development, tried it out, move to tomcat for production, then switched
> back to jetty since memory usage is much more optimized [tomcat 5.0 has
> improved though, but tomcat 4 is a beast])
OK, it seems like abandoning Jetty is no option :)
Should we nevertheless provide Tomcat installation
options and documentation? But I think this question
will be anwered in your upcoming build process.
>>> Lenya depends on cocoon blocks without saying so (it depends on the
>>> "HTML" cocoon block that it was not compiled in because my
>>> local.blocks.properties removed it out.
>>
>> Yes, this is unfortunately true. For us it was much easier
>> to ship local.*.properties than to take care of the
>> compatibility issues. Do you think this is sufficient
>> (if documented carefully)?
>
> No, I think it sucks. But it's way easier for me to do it than to try to
> explain to you why it does. I'm working on a new building system for
> lenya as we speak.
[...]
> which is another thing that sucks. you should be keeping up with cocoon
> day to day, not freeze on one particular instance that doesn't change
> overtime.... this is the secret of continous integration and gump can
> tell you right away if there is a problem (well, when we can make gump
> run cocoon again)
OK, I'm curious - it seems to be quite tough to make Lenya work
with CVS Cocoon. I'll try to understand your changes.
[...]
> I'm working on a new build system that sits on top of cocoon's and
> extends it.
Does this mean that parts of the Cocoon build process
are reused - less maintenance for us :) -, or just that
we'll have a build process that follows the same principles
(which we'll hopefully become familiar with soon)?
-- Andreas
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Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?)
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 2 Feb 2004, at 03:21, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I've been trying to get lenya running for the last few hours now and
>> I think the big problem here is that lenya assumes a particular
>> version of cocoon checkout to compile against.
>> I think this is the source of all the problems.
>> The install documents are out of synch with reality. The build system
>> expects tomcat but now lenya ships with ant.
>
> OK - what would you suggest? Would it make more sense to
> focus on Jetty and remove Tomcat dependencies, or make
> Tomcat the only supported servlet engine? I'm not sure,
> but I think some of the developers can't work with
> Jetty. Maintaining two build processes and their documentation
> is not that easy.
Jetty is *very* compliant to the Servlet API spec and, as far as I
know, faster, more lightweight and easier to use than Tomcat.
cocoon has been shipping jetty for a long time and nobody ever
complained (actually, a quite a few people tried jetty for their
development, tried it out, move to tomcat for production, then switched
back to jetty since memory usage is much more optimized [tomcat 5.0 has
improved though, but tomcat 4 is a beast])
>> Lenya depends on cocoon blocks without saying so (it depends on the
>> "HTML" cocoon block that it was not compiled in because my
>> local.blocks.properties removed it out.
>
> Yes, this is unfortunately true. For us it was much easier
> to ship local.*.properties than to take care of the
> compatibility issues. Do you think this is sufficient
> (if documented carefully)?
No, I think it sucks. But it's way easier for me to do it than to try
to explain to you why it does. I'm working on a new building system for
lenya as we speak.
>> 1) that you have checked out the correct cocoon version (but nothing
>> is written on which one that is)
>
> It is mentioned here:
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/installation/prerequisites.html
>
> I'm afraid we won't manage to keep up to date with the Cocoon CVS
> version ...
which is another thing that sucks. you should be keeping up with cocoon
day to day, not freeze on one particular instance that doesn't change
overtime.... this is the secret of continous integration and gump can
tell you right away if there is a problem (well, when we can make gump
run cocoon again)
>> 2) you have built cocoon
>> 3) you have included cocoon with deprecated classes (it took me
>> forever to find that out, since I normally build cocoon without
>> deprecated classes to avoid depending on them in my projects)
>> 3) you have build cocoon with all the blocks or, at least, all the
>> blocks that lenya depends on (but there is no list of which one they
>> are).
>
> Yes ... a lack of documentation about the local.*.properties.
>
> Thanks for your comments, I hope we can improve the situation.
I'm working on a new build system that sits on top of cocoon's and
extends it.
I'm trying to reduce to a minimum the stuff that lenya should
contain... in preparation of a future where lenya should be a bunch of
blocks and not a different product that incorporates cocoon.
--
Stefano.
Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published
?)
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
[...]
> I've been trying to get lenya running for the last few hours now and I
> think the big problem here is that lenya assumes a particular version of
> cocoon checkout to compile against.
>
> I think this is the source of all the problems.
>
> The install documents are out of synch with reality. The build system
> expects tomcat but now lenya ships with ant.
OK - what would you suggest? Would it make more sense to
focus on Jetty and remove Tomcat dependencies, or make
Tomcat the only supported servlet engine? I'm not sure,
but I think some of the developers can't work with
Jetty. Maintaining two build processes and their documentation
is not that easy.
> Lenya depends on cocoon blocks without saying so (it depends on the
> "HTML" cocoon block that it was not compiled in because my
> local.blocks.properties removed it out.
Yes, this is unfortunately true. For us it was much easier
to ship local.*.properties than to take care of the
compatibility issues. Do you think this is sufficient
(if documented carefully)?
> 1) that you have checked out the correct cocoon version (but nothing is
> written on which one that is)
It is mentioned here:
http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/installation/prerequisites.html
I'm afraid we won't manage to keep up to date with the Cocoon CVS
version ...
> 2) you have built cocoon
> 3) you have included cocoon with deprecated classes (it took me forever
> to find that out, since I normally build cocoon without deprecated
> classes to avoid depending on them in my projects)
> 3) you have build cocoon with all the blocks or, at least, all the
> blocks that lenya depends on (but there is no list of which one they are).
Yes ... a lack of documentation about the local.*.properties.
Thanks for your comments, I hope we can improve the situation.
-- Andreas
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Re: Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?)
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 1 Feb 2004, at 06:45, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
>> I actually really wonder why nobody of the developers is worried about
> that,
>> many newcomers have the same problems and even if people report these
>> problems as well as ways to fix them the developers seem to ignore it.
>
> I certainly know how frustrating it can be to install software and
> stumble
> upon problems without even doing anything special. But I think that
> your
> impression is not completely correct. Report bugs using the bugtracking
> system and they will not (and can not!) be ignored.
>
> See
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Lenya1.2
>
>> I read in the mailing list that only 2 bugs are left until Lenya 1.2
>> will
> be
>> released. Does that mean that all these known problems will be
>> released
> along
>> with 1.2 ?
>
> At this moment 2 bugs are scheduled for resolution before 1.2 is
> released.
> In addition to that there are 4 new bugs for which a decision is
> required if
> they have to be resolved for 1.2 as well.
>
> Please also note that there are 41 entries (including feature requests)
> scheduled for the release of 1.4.
>
> To repeat myself: please use the bugtracking system to report bugs ! A
> bug
> is "known" if (and only if) there exists an entry for it in the
> bugtracking
> system.
I've been trying to get lenya running for the last few hours now and I
think the big problem here is that lenya assumes a particular version
of cocoon checkout to compile against.
I think this is the source of all the problems.
The install documents are out of synch with reality. The build system
expects tomcat but now lenya ships with ant.
Lenya depends on cocoon blocks without saying so (it depends on the
"HTML" cocoon block that it was not compiled in because my
local.blocks.properties removed it out.
The build system is misfunctional since it expects a bunch of
dependencies that are implicitly true and probably told word of mouth
in between you guys.
Don't get me wrong: I like what's going on here, but somebody needs to
make a serious effort in making these things come together.
For cocoon you do:
1) cvs checkout cocoon
2) ./build webapp
3) ./cocoon.sh servlet
and you load your browser and samples pop up. Lenya is not even close
to be at that stage.
The lenya build system is based on so many assumptions:
1) that you have checked out the correct cocoon version (but nothing
is written on which one that is)
2) you have built cocoon
3) you have included cocoon with deprecated classes (it took me
forever to find that out, since I normally build cocoon without
deprecated classes to avoid depending on them in my projects)
3) you have build cocoon with all the blocks or, at least, all the
blocks that lenya depends on (but there is no list of which one they
are).
at this point, you are ready to start following the (unsynched) lenya
installation text file.
This is very discouradging.
--
Stefano.
Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?)
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> I actually really wonder why nobody of the developers is worried about
that,
> many newcomers have the same problems and even if people report these
> problems as well as ways to fix them the developers seem to ignore it.
I certainly know how frustrating it can be to install software and stumble
upon problems without even doing anything special. But I think that your
impression is not completely correct. Report bugs using the bugtracking
system and they will not (and can not!) be ignored.
See
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Lenya1.2
> I read in the mailing list that only 2 bugs are left until Lenya 1.2 will
be
> released. Does that mean that all these known problems will be released
along
> with 1.2 ?
At this moment 2 bugs are scheduled for resolution before 1.2 is released.
In addition to that there are 4 new bugs for which a decision is required if
they have to be resolved for 1.2 as well.
Please also note that there are 41 entries (including feature requests)
scheduled for the release of 1.4.
To repeat myself: please use the bugtracking system to report bugs ! A bug
is "known" if (and only if) there exists an entry for it in the bugtracking
system.
Cheers,
Andreas
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Bugtracking (Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?)
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> I actually really wonder why nobody of the developers is worried about
that,
> many newcomers have the same problems and even if people report these
> problems as well as ways to fix them the developers seem to ignore it.
I certainly know how frustrating it can be to install software and stumble
upon problems without even doing anything special. But I think that your
impression is not completely correct. Report bugs using the bugtracking
system and they will not (and can not!) be ignored.
See
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Lenya1.2
> I read in the mailing list that only 2 bugs are left until Lenya 1.2 will
be
> released. Does that mean that all these known problems will be released
along
> with 1.2 ?
At this moment 2 bugs are scheduled for resolution before 1.2 is released.
In addition to that there are 4 new bugs for which a decision is required if
they have to be resolved for 1.2 as well.
Please also note that there are 41 entries (including feature requests)
scheduled for the release of 1.4.
To repeat myself: please use the bugtracking system to report bugs ! A bug
is "known" if (and only if) there exists an entry for it in the bugtracking
system.
Cheers,
Andreas
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Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Rolf Kulemann <ma...@rolf-kulemann.com>.
On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 19:59, Rudi Strasser wrote:
> I posted a message last week about that issue (please read earlier messages)
>
> The original post was:
> >I discovered to that 'blog' works if I use xalan-2.5.0 instead of
> xalan-2.5.1.
> >The 'page not published ...' message is gone and everything seems to work
> >fine with the blog application.
>
> >xalan-2.5.1 comes with cocoon-2.1.2, xalan-2.5.0 is in the Lenya CVS
> >repository.
>
> I actually really wonder why nobody of the developers is worried about that,
> many newcomers have the same problems and even if people report these
> problems as well as ways to fix them the developers seem to ignore it.
Nah, it not that they/we "ignore" the bugs.
Please do not forget:
- The Lenya community is still growing or being established.
- (That is why) Lenya is a project under incubation.
- (Most) Open source developers are *spending* their freetime to
programm. They do not get money(not often, or not direct).
User and developer support is very appreciated.
>
> Apparently the Lenya developers are working with a different set of 'jar'
> librararies than the ones included in the CVS. Otherwise I have a hard time
> to imagine how all this can happen. So far, all the bugs and issues I
> reported poped up for other users as well. In the beginning I thought it is
> only me who faces these bugs.
Currently there are *some* weird issues with jars especially with the
xalan stuff and it is hard to hunt them down.
>
> That is strange, very inefficient, and discouraging.
Of course I can understand you. And it is good that you say what you
think.
>
> I read in the mailing list that only 2 bugs are left until Lenya 1.2 will be
> released.
Maybe, but I *know* their are more than two bugs.
> Does that mean that all these known problems will be released along
> with 1.2 ?
Hopefully not. I plan to use the next Lenya release (1.2) as a basis for
at least two real life projects.
> I doubt that Lenya will be too well received by people who check
> it out and figure that the run into tons of problems. So they will turn away
> and look for alternatives. Few of them will ever return to give it a second
> try.
That is the naked truth.
>
> Apparently, developers do not consider the sample publications to be part of
> the distributions.
Do they? I hope not. Especially the default pub is VERY IMPORTANT, imho.
> In my opinion, their proper function is at least as
> important as the proper function of the Lenya core is.
+1
> However, at this
> moment I never know if something is simply not implemented, or a bug, etc.
This is per definition the case when using software version under
development from cvs.
--
Regards,
Rolf Kulemann
Always remember:
"There is inherently no silver bullet." - F.Brooks
PGP/GPG public key:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6B4EA7EA
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RE: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Jovanka Pangestu <pa...@verizon.net>.
Thanks all for the reply. This list has been very responsive.
I installed the latest version of Lenya...version 1.2 rc2 and this issue
was fixed. The install seem to now copy the right version of Xalan
needed by Lenya.
- jovanka
-----Original Message-----
From: Rudi Strasser [mailto:rudi.strasser@gmx.de]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:00 AM
To: Lenya Users List
Cc: lenya-dev@cocoon.apache.org
Subject: Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
I posted a message last week about that issue (please read earlier
messages)
The original post was:
>I discovered to that 'blog' works if I use xalan-2.5.0 instead of
xalan-2.5.1.
>The 'page not published ...' message is gone and everything seems to
work
>fine with the blog application.
>xalan-2.5.1 comes with cocoon-2.1.2, xalan-2.5.0 is in the Lenya CVS
>repository.
I actually really wonder why nobody of the developers is worried about
that,
many newcomers have the same problems and even if people report these
problems as well as ways to fix them the developers seem to ignore it.
Apparently the Lenya developers are working with a different set of
'jar'
librararies than the ones included in the CVS. Otherwise I have a hard
time
to imagine how all this can happen. So far, all the bugs and issues I
reported poped up for other users as well. In the beginning I thought it
is
only me who faces these bugs.
That is strange, very inefficient, and discouraging.
I read in the mailing list that only 2 bugs are left until Lenya 1.2
will be
released. Does that mean that all these known problems will be released
along
with 1.2 ? I doubt that Lenya will be too well received by people who
check
it out and figure that the run into tons of problems. So they will turn
away
and look for alternatives. Few of them will ever return to give it a
second
try.
Apparently, developers do not consider the sample publications to be
part of
the distributions. In my opinion, their proper function is at least as
important as the proper function of the Lenya core is. However, at this
moment I never know if something is simply not implemented, or a bug,
etc.
/Rudi
On Saturday 31 January 2004 19:37, Jovanka Pangestu wrote:
> Why do I get a 'page not published yet' screen when I login as editor
> for the Lenya's weblog publication? I assume its supposed to take me
to
> the authoring screen?
>
> - Jovanka
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Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Rudi Strasser <ru...@gmx.de>.
I posted a message last week about that issue (please read earlier messages)
The original post was:
>I discovered to that 'blog' works if I use xalan-2.5.0 instead of
xalan-2.5.1.
>The 'page not published ...' message is gone and everything seems to work
>fine with the blog application.
>xalan-2.5.1 comes with cocoon-2.1.2, xalan-2.5.0 is in the Lenya CVS
>repository.
I actually really wonder why nobody of the developers is worried about that,
many newcomers have the same problems and even if people report these
problems as well as ways to fix them the developers seem to ignore it.
Apparently the Lenya developers are working with a different set of 'jar'
librararies than the ones included in the CVS. Otherwise I have a hard time
to imagine how all this can happen. So far, all the bugs and issues I
reported poped up for other users as well. In the beginning I thought it is
only me who faces these bugs.
That is strange, very inefficient, and discouraging.
I read in the mailing list that only 2 bugs are left until Lenya 1.2 will be
released. Does that mean that all these known problems will be released along
with 1.2 ? I doubt that Lenya will be too well received by people who check
it out and figure that the run into tons of problems. So they will turn away
and look for alternatives. Few of them will ever return to give it a second
try.
Apparently, developers do not consider the sample publications to be part of
the distributions. In my opinion, their proper function is at least as
important as the proper function of the Lenya core is. However, at this
moment I never know if something is simply not implemented, or a bug, etc.
/Rudi
On Saturday 31 January 2004 19:37, Jovanka Pangestu wrote:
> Why do I get a 'page not published yet' screen when I login as editor
> for the Lenya's weblog publication? I assume its supposed to take me to
> the authoring screen?
>
> - Jovanka
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Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Rudi Strasser <ru...@gmx.de>.
I posted a message last week about that issue (please read earlier messages)
The original post was:
>I discovered to that 'blog' works if I use xalan-2.5.0 instead of
xalan-2.5.1.
>The 'page not published ...' message is gone and everything seems to work
>fine with the blog application.
>xalan-2.5.1 comes with cocoon-2.1.2, xalan-2.5.0 is in the Lenya CVS
>repository.
I actually really wonder why nobody of the developers is worried about that,
many newcomers have the same problems and even if people report these
problems as well as ways to fix them the developers seem to ignore it.
Apparently the Lenya developers are working with a different set of 'jar'
librararies than the ones included in the CVS. Otherwise I have a hard time
to imagine how all this can happen. So far, all the bugs and issues I
reported poped up for other users as well. In the beginning I thought it is
only me who faces these bugs.
That is strange, very inefficient, and discouraging.
I read in the mailing list that only 2 bugs are left until Lenya 1.2 will be
released. Does that mean that all these known problems will be released along
with 1.2 ? I doubt that Lenya will be too well received by people who check
it out and figure that the run into tons of problems. So they will turn away
and look for alternatives. Few of them will ever return to give it a second
try.
Apparently, developers do not consider the sample publications to be part of
the distributions. In my opinion, their proper function is at least as
important as the proper function of the Lenya core is. However, at this
moment I never know if something is simply not implemented, or a bug, etc.
/Rudi
On Saturday 31 January 2004 19:37, Jovanka Pangestu wrote:
> Why do I get a 'page not published yet' screen when I login as editor
> for the Lenya's weblog publication? I assume its supposed to take me to
> the authoring screen?
>
> - Jovanka
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Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Jovanka Pangestu wrote:
> No, I am not using Jetty. I installed the stable version of Lenya 1.2
> RC1
the combination Jetty and XSLTC didn't work for some reason. I think
Gregor has switched it in the meantime to Xalan.
Try using the CVS version for the moment
Michi
> The weblog part never did work for me when I logged in as editor, but
> the default publication works.
>
> - Jovanka
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Wechner [mailto:michael.wechner@wyona.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:48 AM
> To: Lenya Users List
> Subject: Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
>
> Jovanka Pangestu wrote:
>
>>Why do I get a 'page not published yet' screen when I login as editor
>>for the Lenya's weblog publication?
>
>
> are you using Jetty? What Lenya version do you use?
>
> I assume its supposed to take me to
>
>>the authoring screen?
>
>
> yes
>
>
>>
>>
>>- Jovanka
>>
>
>
>
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RE: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Dale Christ <de...@yahoo.com>.
--- Jovanka Pangestu <pa...@verizon.net> wrote:
> No, I am not using Jetty. I installed the stable version of Lenya
> 1.2
> RC1
> The weblog part never did work for me when I logged in as editor, but
> the default publication works.
Have you tried using the version from CVS?
>
> - Jovanka
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Wechner [mailto:michael.wechner@wyona.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:48 AM
> To: Lenya Users List
> Subject: Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
>
> Jovanka Pangestu wrote:
> > Why do I get a 'page not published yet' screen when I login as
> editor
> > for the Lenya's weblog publication?
>
> are you using Jetty? What Lenya version do you use?
>
> I assume its supposed to take me to
> > the authoring screen?
>
> yes
>
> >
> >
> >
> > - Jovanka
> >
>
>
> --
> Michael Wechner
> Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
> http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
> michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
>
>
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>
>
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>
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RE: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Jovanka Pangestu <pa...@verizon.net>.
No, I am not using Jetty. I installed the stable version of Lenya 1.2
RC1
The weblog part never did work for me when I logged in as editor, but
the default publication works.
- Jovanka
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Wechner [mailto:michael.wechner@wyona.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:48 AM
To: Lenya Users List
Subject: Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Jovanka Pangestu wrote:
> Why do I get a 'page not published yet' screen when I login as editor
> for the Lenya's weblog publication?
are you using Jetty? What Lenya version do you use?
I assume its supposed to take me to
> the authoring screen?
yes
>
>
>
> - Jovanka
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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Re: Lenya's Weblog Publication: Page Not Published ?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Jovanka Pangestu wrote:
> Why do I get a ‘page not published yet’ screen when I login as editor
> for the Lenya’s weblog publication?
are you using Jetty? What Lenya version do you use?
I assume its supposed to take me to
> the authoring screen?
yes
>
>
>
> - Jovanka
>
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/
michael.wechner@wyona.com michi@apache.org
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