You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to modperl@perl.apache.org by Paul <yd...@yahoo.com> on 2002/10/09 23:43:18 UTC
[OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
I know there are servlets, but I was led to believe that I would almost
be able to drop my mod_perl modules into the iPlanet server, as if it
has some equivelent functionality. If so, I can't find any evidence of
it, and I'm rather skeptical.
The company is making us migrate (some baloney about being legally
vulnerable because we're using open source), and I've got to convert a
nice, simple, efficient Apache/mod_perl/MySQL solution to iPlanet/LDAP.
Am I looking at a complete redesign here?
===
Also, it looks as though we're going to end up with iPlanet web *and*
LDAP servers on this midrange Sun Solaris server, trying to coexist
with an Oracle data warehouse as well as *ALL* our ongoing "production"
code, which constitutes sometimes as much as 80-hours runtimes for some
of the heavy hitters. We're out of budget and wrestling with a demented
IT department that insists we can't use free stuff that's *ALREADY*
working.
If anyone has a miraculous suggestion, I will light many candles in
your honor. *sigh*
Paul
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Alan <al...@ufies.org>.
On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:43:18PM -0700, Paul wrote:
> The company is making us migrate (some baloney about being legally
> vulnerable because we're using open source), and I've got to convert a
> nice, simple, efficient Apache/mod_perl/MySQL solution to iPlanet/LDAP.
>
> Am I looking at a complete redesign here?
That totally sux0rs :( Maybe you should try hitting the powers-that-be
with a large 2x4" clue-stick? Or mention that other huge businesses
such as imdb, banner ad companies, etc use it and are still sucessful
and raking in the cash. A long shot but.....
alan
--
Alan "Arcterex" <al...@ufies.org> -=][=- http://arcterex.net
"I used to herd dairy cows. Now I herd lusers. Apart from the isolation, I
think I preferred the cows. They were better conversation, easier to milk, and
if they annoyed me enough, I could shoot them and eat them." -Rodger Donaldson
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Paul <yd...@yahoo.com>.
*They* don't know what they mean, but we're getting a variance for Perl
(supposedly). No such luck for mysql or apache....
--- Lupe Christoph <lu...@lupe-christoph.de> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 2002-10-09 at 18:22:24 -0400, Steve Grazzini wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:43:18PM -0700, Paul wrote:
>
> > > The company is making us migrate (some baloney about being
> legally
> > > vulnerable because we're using open source)
>
> > If they won't let you use open-source tools, then the
> > answer is definitely "yes". (Perl is open-source.)
>
> As are all modules on CPAN. If they really mean this, you will have
> to
> rewrite in a language that has a closed-source compiler, using only
> modules that are not available in source. Do not use any code
> examples,
> too, just to be sure ... =:-|
>
> If you want to be sure you are implementing what *they* want, you
> better
> ask *them* where "Open Source" stops. Steve's point about perl being
> open source may be important for your career ;-) (As in
> "Career-limiting
> move")
>
> > And migrating from a relational database to LDAP might
> > not be as obvious as... oh well.
>
> Depending on what you do, it may not even be suitable. LDAP organizes
> data hierarchically. It hangs attributes off objects. Generally, LDAP
> databases are slower than RDBMSes.
>
> HTH,
> Lupe Christoph
> --
> | lupe@lupe-christoph.de |
> http://www.lupe-christoph.de/ |
> | Big Misunderstandings #6398: The Titanic was not supposed to be
> |
> | unsinkable. The designer had a speech impediment. He said: "I have
> |
> | thith great unthinkable conthept ..."
> |
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Lupe Christoph <lu...@lupe-christoph.de>.
On Wednesday, 2002-10-09 at 18:22:24 -0400, Steve Grazzini wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:43:18PM -0700, Paul wrote:
> > The company is making us migrate (some baloney about being legally
> > vulnerable because we're using open source)
> If they won't let you use open-source tools, then the
> answer is definitely "yes". (Perl is open-source.)
As are all modules on CPAN. If they really mean this, you will have to
rewrite in a language that has a closed-source compiler, using only
modules that are not available in source. Do not use any code examples,
too, just to be sure ... =:-|
If you want to be sure you are implementing what *they* want, you better
ask *them* where "Open Source" stops. Steve's point about perl being
open source may be important for your career ;-) (As in "Career-limiting
move")
> And migrating from a relational database to LDAP might
> not be as obvious as... oh well.
Depending on what you do, it may not even be suitable. LDAP organizes
data hierarchically. It hangs attributes off objects. Generally, LDAP
databases are slower than RDBMSes.
HTH,
Lupe Christoph
--
| lupe@lupe-christoph.de | http://www.lupe-christoph.de/ |
| Big Misunderstandings #6398: The Titanic was not supposed to be |
| unsinkable. The designer had a speech impediment. He said: "I have |
| thith great unthinkable conthept ..." |
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Steve Grazzini <gr...@nyc.rr.com>.
On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 02:43:18PM -0700, Paul wrote:
>
> I know there are servlets, but I was led to believe that I would almost
> be able to drop my mod_perl modules into the iPlanet server, as if it
> has some equivelent functionality. If so, I can't find any evidence of
> it, and I'm rather skeptical.
>
> The company is making us migrate (some baloney about being legally
> vulnerable because we're using open source), and I've got to convert a
> nice, simple, efficient Apache/mod_perl/MySQL solution to iPlanet/LDAP.
>
> Am I looking at a complete redesign here?
>
If they won't let you use open-source tools, then the
answer is definitely "yes". (Perl is open-source.)
And migrating from a relational database to LDAP might
not be as obvious as... oh well. Anyway, if you can't
get them to listen to reason, there's an NSAPI module
on CPAN:
http://search.cpan.org/author/BSUGARS/nsapi_perl-0.24/
But it's dated 1998, and iplanet is multi-threaded.
And of course, the module is open-source as well.
--
Steve
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Paul <yd...@yahoo.com>.
--- Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com> wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> > Looks like the FastCGI binaries are only available for Windows
> > versions. We'll be on Sun Solaris, but I can probably recompile the
> > source, if that doesn't cause the open-source police to come get
> me.
>
> I'm afraid it's not as obvious how to do it as it is with mod_perl.
> You may need to ask on the mailing list.
<g> figures. :)
> > I still think we're miscommunicating, though. We weren't even using
> > Apache::Registry; the CGI speed improvement of mod_perl is only of
> > incidental interest to us. The API hooks were what we were using.
> > FastCGI (as I understand it, e.g., from
> > http://www.fastcgi.com/devkit/doc/fastcgi-whitepaper/fastcgi.htm )
> > doesn't offer any API
>
> Everything offers an API. CGI is an API.
Point taken -- I'm thinking too rigidly.
> If I understand correctly, you just want to write a custom access
> control thingy.
Predominantly. Though there are a few other things we do as well,
that's the most complex/important one, and I think some of the other
things could be functionally folded into that.
> FastCGI calls that an "authorizer" and it is documented
> in that whitepaper.
> - Perrin
Ah! I see it now. SWEET!
Thanks AGAIN Perrin! =o)
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
Paul wrote:
> Looks like the FastCGI binaries are only available for Windows
> versions. We'll be on Sun Solaris, but I can probably recompile the
> source, if that doesn't cause the open-source police to come get me.
I'm afraid it's not as obvious how to do it as it is with mod_perl. You
may need to ask on the mailing list.
> I still think we're miscommunicating, though. We weren't even using
> Apache::Registry; the CGI speed improvement of mod_perl is only of
> incidental interest to us. The API hooks were what we were using.
> FastCGI (as I understand it, e.g., from
> http://www.fastcgi.com/devkit/doc/fastcgi-whitepaper/fastcgi.htm )
> doesn't offer any API
Everything offers an API. CGI is an API.
If I understand correctly, you just want to write a custom access
control thingy. FastCGI calls that an "authorizer" and it is documented
in that whitepaper.
- Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Paul <yd...@yahoo.com>.
--- Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com> wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> > What I mean is that before I had a custom access
> > handler installed to use MySQL without resorting to state
> > management other than the http NCSA Basic Authentication header
>
> You should be able to do that with FastCGI. Not sure about
> PersistentPerl. You'd have to ask the author.
>
> - Perrin
Looks like the FastCGI binaries are only available for Windows
versions. We'll be on Sun Solaris, but I can probably recompile the
source, if that doesn't cause the open-source police to come get me.
I still think we're miscommunicating, though. We weren't even using
Apache::Registry; the CGI speed improvement of mod_perl is only of
incidental interest to us. The API hooks were what we were using.
FastCGI (as I understand it, e.g., from
http://www.fastcgi.com/devkit/doc/fastcgi-whitepaper/fastcgi.htm )
doesn't offer any API, though the iPlanet version at
http://www.caraveo.com/fastcgi/ seems to be implemented with NSAPI in
such a way that it *sort* of does anyway. It's theoretically *better*
for the niche it was written to fill, but that's functional
specialization, where mod_perl is more versatile.
The main thing is just that mod_perl/mysql was just such a sweet
solution -- I really hate to see it go.
Anyway, I've beaten this thread enough. Thanks again, and I'll try to
stop spamming the list now. =o)
Paul
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
Paul wrote:
> What I mean is that before I had a custom access
> handler installed to use MySQL without resorting to state management
> other than the http NCSA Basic Authentication header
You should be able to do that with FastCGI. Not sure about
PersistentPerl. You'd have to ask the author.
- Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Paul <yd...@yahoo.com>.
> FastCGI and PersistentPerl are both working equivalents to mod_perl
> with similar capabilities and performance. They should work just
> fine with iPlanet.
Oh yeah????
Awesome. I will look into that.
> I don't see why that would be any different from what you currently
> have. Any state mechanism requires cookies, URLs, or hidden form
> values for maintaining at least a unique ID on the client side.
> There is no other way to do it.
Agreed -- and I apologize for the confusion -- but I may be blowing
smoke from my lack of knowledge, and misstating my thoughts because of
false assumptions. What I mean is that before I had a custom access
handler installed to use MySQL without resorting to state management
other than the http NCSA Basic Authentication header, and I didn't
think I'd be able to use those tools to emulate the same methodology,
though I know I can get the same result with a redesign.
> Again, I don't understand what you think you're going to lose. All
> the basic data available under mod_perl is available under everything
> else as well, albeit with a slightly different API.
Different is acceptable.
Thanks, Perrin -- that sort of feedback is the reason lists are so
handy.
Paul
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 14:43, Paul wrote:
> > There's nothing you've mentioned so far that requires Java. It would
> > be much faster to port it to FastCGI or the like.
>
> I just meant that iPlanet's internal API was probably going to require
> Java or C, and not Perl.
FastCGI and PersistentPerl are both working equivalents to mod_perl with
similar capabilities and performance. They should work just fine with
iPlanet.
> I can redo most of it as CGI if necessary, but
> some of that will require slieght-of-code like embedding data in
> cookies or hidden form elements
I don't see why that would be any different from what you currently
have. Any state mechanism requires cookies, URLs, or hidden form values
for maintaining at least a unique ID on the client side. There is no
other way to do it.
> I just prefer having all the data from the engine available
> from the request object, and I'm gonna miss that.
Again, I don't understand what you think you're going to lose. All the
basic data available under mod_perl is available under everything else
as well, albeit with a slightly different API.
- Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Paul <yd...@yahoo.com>.
--- Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com> wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> > The problem isn't so much the registry as the API.
>
> Any use of the Apache API would have to be rewritten. There is no
> way around that.
That's what I figured.
> > I don't know how I'm going to do all that with iPlanet/LDAP without
> > a lot of recoding, probably in Java. :(
>
> There's nothing you've mentioned so far that requires Java. It would
> be much faster to port it to FastCGI or the like.
I just meant that iPlanet's internal API was probably going to require
Java or C, and not Perl. I can redo most of it as CGI if necessary, but
some of that will require slieght-of-code like embedding data in
cookies or hidden form elements &c.... though I do that some already
anyway. I just prefer having all the data from the engine available
from the request object, and I'm gonna miss that.
Still, the SUN rep talks a good game, and my paycheck demands that I
play the game the way the big bosses want.
As an aside, this should begin next month. Would the list be interested
in a running commentary of how things are done on the new one, or would
that be too much spammy line-noise?
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
Paul wrote:
> The problem isn't so much the registry as the API.
Any use of the Apache API would have to be rewritten. There is no way
around that.
> I don't know how I'm going to do all that with iPlanet/LDAP without a
> lot of recoding, probably in Java. :(
There's nothing you've mentioned so far that requires Java. It would be
much faster to port it to FastCGI or the like.
- Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Paul <yd...@yahoo.com>.
--- Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com> wrote:
> Perrin Harkins wrote:
> > Paul wrote:
> >
> >> I know there are servlets, but I was led to believe that I would
> >> almost be able to drop my mod_perl modules into the iPlanet
server,
> >> as if it has some equivelent functionality. If so, I can't find
any
> >> evidence of it, and I'm rather skeptical.
> >
> > I think your only hope is FastCGI, or PerlEx if you're running it
> > on Windows.
>
> Wait, there is also PersistentPerl (formerly SpeedyCGI), and Matt's
> PPerl. Both on CPAN.
> - Perrin
The problem isn't so much the registry as the API.
I've done a lot of server customization, such as embedding the MySQL
database for flexible, customizable password access and such,
including:
- automatic forwarding to SLL at the same document URL (new protocol)
- making the server restricted by *default*, so only nonrestricted
directories need to be specified (there are few)
- allowing .htaccess files to specify individual files and
subdirectories with alternate passwords
etc.
I don't know how I'm going to do all that with iPlanet/LDAP without a
lot of recoding, probably in Java. :(
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
Perrin Harkins wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>
>> I know there are servlets, but I was led to believe that I would almost
>> be able to drop my mod_perl modules into the iPlanet server, as if it
>> has some equivelent functionality. If so, I can't find any evidence of
>> it, and I'm rather skeptical.
>
> I think your only hope is FastCGI, or PerlEx if you're running it on
> Windows.
Wait, there is also PersistentPerl (formerly SpeedyCGI), and Matt's
PPerl. Both on CPAN.
- Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
Paul wrote:
> I know there are servlets, but I was led to believe that I would almost
> be able to drop my mod_perl modules into the iPlanet server, as if it
> has some equivelent functionality. If so, I can't find any evidence of
> it, and I'm rather skeptical.
I think your only hope is FastCGI, or PerlEx if you're running it on
Windows.
- Perrin
Re: [OT] migrating from Apache to iPlanet; any mod_perl counterpart?
Posted by Ask Bjoern Hansen <as...@develooper.com>.
On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Paul wrote:
> We're out of budget
and
> insists we can't use free stuff that's *ALREADY* working.
Anyone see a pattern here? :-)
> If anyone has a miraculous suggestion, I will light many candles in
> your honor. *sigh*
Talk to whoever decides what the IT department thinks? (Or make
someone talk to some lawyers with more clue).
- ask
--
ask bjoern hansen, http://www.askbjoernhansen.com/ !try; do();