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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Robert Simmons <de...@arcor.de> on 2003/08/27 22:31:06 UTC
Integratign a W3C XForms implementation into the Cocoon Project?
Greetings,
One thing that I would like to see is Cocoon supporting the XForms 1.0 standard
as described on W3C.
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/
There is currently a product in the open source community called Chiba that
accomplishes a good portion of this integration. This could be built upon using
the higher developer resources to the benefit of Cocoon.
http://chiba.sourceforge.net/
I think it might be worth it to have Cocoon and Apache talk to the developer of
Chiba about integrating it into the Cocoon project. Although XMLForms is useful,
it simply isnt the standard anymore. Why implement what is already most of the
way working?
-- Robert
Re: Integratign a W3C XForms implementation into the Cocoon Project?
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
Berin Loritsch said:
> Robert Simmons wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> One thing that I would like to see is Cocoon supporting the
>> XForms 1.0 standard as described on W3C.
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/
>>
>
> I would advise against the XForms standard because it is severely
> broken for client/server type applications. XForms ONLY makes
> sense in a pure client setting.
I would like to hear an elaboration of why this is the case.
Why would this not be useful?
App-->XForm --XHTML adaption--> XHTML form
|
|
user action
|
|
V
App<--XML Result <--adaption-- XHTML Response
And later when the UA is XForm capable, the adaption stage is
dropped from the pipeline.
Just curious.
Niclas
Re: Integratign a W3C XForms implementation into the Cocoon Project?
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Robert Simmons wrote:
> I would disagree with that. XForms has some interraction that is client
> specific but it can, most assuredly, operate in a client-server environment
> quite effectively as chiba demonstrates. Some stuff on the client side would
> need to be implemented in javascript but that is ok. These are only events
> that work on validating documents. I would push XForms any day over non
> standard solutions.
Oh, I'm sorry. The work I did trying to support XForms a while ago, was nothing
and I have no basis for my argument. Never mind the fact that I tried to work
with the XForms expert group in the past to make it a bit more open to a Client/
Server environment, but the experts had their minds set on a client only
implementation (and even said as much). Never mind the fact that the validation
layer, and client interaction assumes a constant connection with the user.
I just don't know what I am talking about.
Give me a break will you?
>
> Wehn XForms is widely adopted, do we want cocoon to be the only web
> publishing framework that doesnt support them?
When XForms is widely adopted the only thing Cocoon will need to do is accept
the XML results. I doubt Cocoon will have a problem with it. When XForms
is widely adopted there will be support for it in IE and Mozilla.
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
Re: Integratign a W3C XForms implementation into the Cocoon Project?
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
Robert Simmons said:
> Wehn XForms is widely adopted, do we want cocoon to be the only
> web publishing framework that doesnt support them?
I am far from an XForm expert, but saying that Cocoon will not
support XForm when the User Agents doesn is a little bit of
overstatement isn't it?
The POST from the UA will be an XML document, and if there is
something Cocoon is good at, it is to take care of XML input.
So, "when Xform is widely adopted" I think this is not an issue in
Cocoon. However, Cocoon has many times in the past proved a useful
platform for bridging new technologies with olds (such as creating
PNG out of SVGs for non-svg capable UAs), and that is when we need
Cocoon support of a new technology.
(For some reason, my mails takes a long time to reach the mailing
list. I already covered this an hour ago. Maybe have to re-send.)
Niclas
Re: Integratign a W3C XForms implementation into the Cocoon Project?
Posted by Robert Simmons <ro...@norcom.de>.
I would disagree with that. XForms has some interraction that is client
specific but it can, most assuredly, operate in a client-server environment
quite effectively as chiba demonstrates. Some stuff on the client side would
need to be implemented in javascript but that is ok. These are only events
that work on validating documents. I would push XForms any day over non
standard solutions.
Wehn XForms is widely adopted, do we want cocoon to be the only web
publishing framework that doesnt support them?
-- Robert
"Berin Loritsch" <bl...@apache.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3F4DFC62.5030300@apache.org...
> Robert Simmons wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > One thing that I would like to see is Cocoon supporting the XForms 1.0
standard
> > as described on W3C.
> >
> > http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/
> >
>
> I would advise against the XForms standard because it is severely broken
for
> client/server type applications. XForms ONLY makes sense in a pure client
> setting.
>
>
>
> --
>
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
> deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> - Benjamin Franklin
>
>
Re: Integratign a W3C XForms implementation into the Cocoon Project?
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Robert Simmons wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> One thing that I would like to see is Cocoon supporting the XForms 1.0 standard
> as described on W3C.
>
> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/
>
I would advise against the XForms standard because it is severely broken for
client/server type applications. XForms ONLY makes sense in a pure client
setting.
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin