Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Marc Oesch <ma...@gmail.com>]

Hello,

I have been reading through the mail archive and have 3 questions
regarding future JAMES releases.

- Releasing JAMES more regularly, eg. quarterly or so ? This question
was brought up already a few days by Pierre Smits on this list so I
wanted to voice my support for this idea.

- Secondly, I'm not sure about release 2.3.0 or what will make into it.

Back in December '05, there was a discussion about wrapping up and
releasing 2.3.0 in the coming days, so I wanted to wait for this
release.

On the other hand, there are 9 open issues for JIRA for release 2.3.0,
if I got this correctly:

http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&mode=hide&sorter/order=DESC&sorter/field=priority&resolution=-1&pid=10411&fixfor=10690

Now, I'm not sure what the consensus from the developer is:
Is a release 2.3.0 imminent or will you wait till (most of) these 9
issues are fixed ?

Please don't take this as criticism. I know this is an open-source
project, but it makes it hard for a bystander to understand what
criteria there are for the 2.3.0 release and/or if simply a matter of
JIRA not being up-to-date...

- Lastly, there was a discussion about sponsors for 2 key features,
ie. web-based administration for JAMES and IMAP support.
I would be interested in the first one (web-based administration). I
understand there already
is a project, but some people voiced concerns over the quality on the list:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/ajaconsole/

Are there alternatives ?

Is there somebody at JAMES who handles the organization of this
"bounty hunting" for sponsored features and developers actually
interested in implementing one of these 2 features ?

Thanks.

Marc

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Re: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Ahmed Mohombe <am...@yahoo.com>]

>>  many of your contributions are still "blocked" in JIRA, even
>> if many users would be very happy to use them.
> 
> Such as?
> 
>> your virtual host solution is there but still not included in
>> the official release.
> 
> Nor will every patch necessarily EVER be included.  Heck, *Stefano* has one
> in there, which he could apply, but he knows that there is disagreement over
> the functionality.
> 
> Daniel's patch could be obsoleted by a simple JMX bean to control the list
> of local mail hosts, and/or by moving to JNDI-based configuration stores.
> Or a DNS based solution, perhaps using our embedded DNS server.
Sorry but I can't help myself:
just reread - "could", "would", "might" :)

  - nothing tangible or usable by normal users *now*.

Ahmed.


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Re: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Stefano Bagnara <ap...@bago.org>]

Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Nor will every patch necessarily EVER be included.  Heck, *Stefano* has one
> in there, which he could apply, but he knows that there is disagreement over
> the functionality.

So you still rememeber this ;-)
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JAMES-358
I'm still of the idea that the patch is an improvement, and I'm using it 
in production (for my own needs the default behaviour is almost not usable).

I will fight to bring my reasons, but I will accept the committers vote, 
and this "issue" is the proof.

Furthermore, all the DSN stuff is ready, I used it production for more 
than an year, but I think it's not ready for general usage and would 
slow down the 2.3.0 release and we don't want this now. I have the DSN 
issue assigned to me to let others know they should talk to me before 
working on DSN issues.

Stefano

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RE: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

>  many of your contributions are still "blocked" in JIRA, even
> if many users would be very happy to use them.

Such as?

> your virtual host solution is there but still not included in
> the official release.

Nor will every patch necessarily EVER be included.  Heck, *Stefano* has one
in there, which he could apply, but he knows that there is disagreement over
the functionality.

Daniel's patch could be obsoleted by a simple JMX bean to control the list
of local mail hosts, and/or by moving to JNDI-based configuration stores.
Or a DNS based solution, perhaps using our embedded DNS server.

	--- Noel


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Re: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Ahmed Mohombe <am...@yahoo.com>]

> You're on the list, so
> obviously want to use james!
Of course I want to :). Even more than I'm allowed to.
And I'm mostly not allowed because ... well this was already discussed
many times in previous threads :(.

> If someone wants to donate £30k p/a, then i'd happily work full time on
> james.  Until then, i'll continue contributing any code, etc when i get the
> time to do so.
I know, but unfortunately many of your contributions are still "blocked" in JIRA,
even if many users would be very happy to use them. Most of the people don't want
something perfect but untangible, but something that just works, and now.
E.g. since years your virtual host solution is there but still not included in the official release.

Ahmed.


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RE: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Daniel Perry <d....@netcase.co.uk>]

> The message that normal users see is: "JAMES is abandonware" and
> than only when someone is saying
> something provocative a small sparkle of replys appear (for
> mostly one or two days, than total
> silence for months).
>
> > BTW we should remember that there are few committers behind James and
> > Noel already did a great job in the past years for James:
> > he is not in
> > the current position by his own choice.
> That was very clear from the speed things happen in JAMES.
> If someone is forced to do things ....

Hey, if you dont like it, then do somthing about it.  You're on the list, so
obviously want to use james!

If someone wants to donate £30k p/a, then i'd happily work full time on
james.  Until then, i'll continue contributing any code, etc when i get the
time to do so.

Daniel.


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Re: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Ahmed Mohombe <am...@yahoo.com>]

>>> An ALPHA or BETA release of 2.3.0 will be made as soon as Noel will 
>>> have the time to do that.
>>> AFAIK Noel is the only one with a valid key in the Apache WoT.
>> Very interesting.
>> I suppose everyone around (or still around) would like to know why is 
>> that so?
>> Since there are others more active comiters, why can't they do the 
>> releases *too*.
> 
> I'm not sure but probably to get a key on the WoT you have to fisically 
> meet a few apache committers/members that "trust" you.
> 
> I live in italy and I don't know other Apache committers/members near me 
> and I've had no time to go to any Apache Conference until now.
Well, what can I say? Is there a more bureaucratic procedure than this?

> Btw, I think that the current nightly is "beta-quality", so if you want 
> to be an early adopter just download it. You don't need it to be signed 
> to use it but Apache needs it to be signed to make a release.
It's not about me. I can also checkout the source and build it.
It's about the image, and the message JAMES is spreading with it's "since 3 years not updated pages",
"no news page", "no clear/real roadmap"

The message that normal users see is: "JAMES is abandonware" and than only when someone is saying 
something provocative a small sparkle of replys appear (for mostly one or two days, than total 
silence for months).

> BTW we should remember that there are few committers behind James and 
> Noel already did a great job in the past years for James: 
> he is not in 
> the current position by his own choice.
That was very clear from the speed things happen in JAMES.
If someone is forced to do things ....

Ahmed.


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Re: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Stefano Bagnara <ap...@bago.org>]

Ahmed Mohombe wrote:
>> An ALPHA or BETA release of 2.3.0 will be made as soon as Noel will 
>> have the time to do that.
>> AFAIK Noel is the only one with a valid key in the Apache WoT.
> Very interesting.
> I suppose everyone around (or still around) would like to know why is 
> that so?
> Since there are others more active comiters, why can't they do the 
> releases *too*.

I'm not sure but probably to get a key on the WoT you have to fisically 
meet a few apache committers/members that "trust" you.

I live in italy and I don't know other Apache committers/members near me 
and I've had no time to go to any Apache Conference until now.

Btw, I think that the current nightly is "beta-quality", so if you want 
to be an early adopter just download it. You don't need it to be signed 
to use it but Apache needs it to be signed to make a release.

BTW we should remember that there are few committers behind James and 
Noel already did a great job in the past years for James: he is not in 
the current position by his own choice.

Stefano

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Re: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Ahmed Mohombe <am...@yahoo.com>]

> An ALPHA or BETA release of 2.3.0 will be made as soon as Noel will have 
> the time to do that.
> AFAIK Noel is the only one with a valid key in the Apache WoT.
Very interesting.
I suppose everyone around (or still around) would like to know why is that so?
Since there are others more active comiters, why can't they do the releases *too*.

Thanks in advance,

Ahmed.


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Re: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Marc Oesch <ma...@gmail.com>]

> > > An ALPHA or BETA release of 2.3.0 will be made as soon
> > > as Noel will have the time to do that.
> >
> > Actually, if we're ready, we can vote on an alpha release.  Not that it
> > would be any different from what is already available to download.
>
> It's extremely different if you're not someone comfortable with the
> source code. :)

I can only support that very strongly.

Regular releases, eg. 4 times a year would give JAMES attention on
news sites and maybe even bring in new contributors.

The other, revived idea from this thread (feature sponsoring, eg. for IMAP or
web-based administration...) could also be faciliated
with a 2.3.0 release and a roadmap for future releases.

When I browsed the Wiki and JIRA, I found the ideas for "James V3" and
the JIRA bug lists and 2.3.0 and 3.0 roadmap valuable.

But as  others pointed out, the latest JAMES news says "05/Jan/2005", so
most people (read: non developers or potential users) will assume nothing
goes on despited the fact a lot of work is going on behind the
scenes...which is a pity.

Just my opinion after looking at JAMES this past week.

Marc

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Re: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Serge Knystautas <sk...@gmail.com>]

On 2/9/06, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > An ALPHA or BETA release of 2.3.0 will be made as soon
> > as Noel will have the time to do that.
>
> Actually, if we're ready, we can vote on an alpha release.  Not that it
> would be any different from what is already available to download.

It's extremely different if you're not someone comfortable with the
source code. :)

--
Serge Knystautas
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com

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RE: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

> An ALPHA or BETA release of 2.3.0 will be made as soon
> as Noel will have the time to do that.

Actually, if we're ready, we can vote on an alpha release.  Not that it
would be any different from what is already available to download.

And one thing that bothers me for a *release*, is that the docs are still
not built into the release package.  Nothing to do with the code.

> I use the current trunk (nightly build) in my production environments):
> for my needs it's already better and more stable than 2.2.0.

Ok, that's good to hear.  I'd like to hear from others, but hopefully that
will come from testing.

	--- Noel


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Re: Regular JAMES releases / Release 2.3.0 / Feature sponsors

[Stefano Bagnara <ap...@bago.org>]

> Now, I'm not sure what the consensus from the developer is:
> Is a release 2.3.0 imminent or will you wait till (most of) these 9
> issues are fixed ?

An ALPHA or BETA release of 2.3.0 will be made as soon as Noel will have 
the time to do that.
AFAIK Noel is the only one with a valid key in the Apache WoT.

There is currently no plan to add new features to the current trunk 
before the 2.3.0 release. Probably minor features could be accepted, but 
not if that mean delaying the release.

The Beta release will, probably, bring to light a bunch of bugs and 
we'll release 2.3.0 final or others beta after fixing bugs.

I use the current trunk (nightly build) in my production environments): 
for my needs it's already better and more stable than 2.2.0.

Stefano

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