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Posted to dev@httpd.apache.org by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org> on 2003/05/19 11:42:18 UTC

Volunteering to be RM

Hi,


I guess it is about time for a new 2.0 release.  I hereby
volunteer to be RM.  If I don't hear any objections I'll
tag tomorrow.


Sander

Re: Volunteering to be RM

Posted by Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com>.
Sander Striker wrote:

>Hi,
>
>
>I guess it is about time for a new 2.0 release.  I hereby
>volunteer to be RM.  If I don't hear any objections I'll
>tag tomorrow.
>
>
>Sander
>
>  
>
+1, pending response on whether we keep the patch to http_request or not.

Bill


Re: Sheparding patches was Re: Volunteering to be RM

Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jeff Trawick wrote:
> Stas Bekman wrote:
> 
>> Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
>>
>>> And, as Sander has pointed out, this isn't a regression from prior 
>>> releases. Therefore, we won't necessarily hold up a release for it.  -- 
>>
>>
>>
>> If something wasn't known to be buggy in prior releases and gets known 
>> as buggy later on, it can't be even considered to be a showstopper?
> 
> 
> Ordinarily, no.  The philosophy of those willing to do the work to 
> tag/test/roll/release as been that as long as it is expected to be 
> better than the previous release, with no apparent regressions, it is 
> ready to go.  An exception would be if there is something to indicate 
> that a significant number of users would suddenly begin to suffer the 
> problem.  Consider the chunked encoding vulnerability as an example of 
> this; it was obviously going to become an impact to many sites when the 
> vulnerability was disclosed, even though the problem had been around for 
> eons.
> 
> The bright side is that we don't have to wait months and months for 
> another GA release.  When a reasonable set of fixes becomes available, 
> the willingness to invest in the required effort to 
> tag/test/roll/release will follow.
> 
> If we aren't conservative about what is considered a showstopper, there 
> will be more time between releases and users will have to wait longer to 
> get relief for problems they are seeing.

Thanks for the explanation, Jeff.

__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman            JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/     mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org   http://ticketmaster.com



Re: Sheparding patches was Re: Volunteering to be RM

Posted by Jeff Trawick <tr...@attglobal.net>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
>> And, as Sander has pointed out, this isn't a regression from prior 
>> releases. Therefore, we won't necessarily hold up a release for it.  -- 
> 
> 
> If something wasn't known to be buggy in prior releases and gets known 
> as buggy later on, it can't be even considered to be a showstopper?

Ordinarily, no.  The philosophy of those willing to do the work to 
tag/test/roll/release as been that as long as it is expected to be 
better than the previous release, with no apparent regressions, it is 
ready to go.  An exception would be if there is something to indicate 
that a significant number of users would suddenly begin to suffer the 
problem.  Consider the chunked encoding vulnerability as an example of 
this; it was obviously going to become an impact to many sites when the 
vulnerability was disclosed, even though the problem had been around for 
eons.

The bright side is that we don't have to wait months and months for 
another GA release.  When a reasonable set of fixes becomes available, 
the willingness to invest in the required effort to 
tag/test/roll/release will follow.

If we aren't conservative about what is considered a showstopper, there 
will be more time between releases and users will have to wait longer to 
get relief for problems they are seeing.


Re: Sheparding patches was Re: Volunteering to be RM

Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> --On Friday, May 23, 2003 7:38 PM +1000 Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Sander, you have asked if there are any objections. I've posted the
>> information about an existing problem. Nobody has followed up on this
>> report, though everybody seems to be happy to proceed with a new release,
>> rolling a new tag. Can somebody please explain why? Is it because I 
>> haven't
>> logged this issue into a STATUS file, haven't submitted it to the bug
>> database, or just because I don't have enough httpd-dev karma to make any
>> difference?
> 
> 
> In this particular case, my attitude is that since you have commit 
> access, the responsibility is upon you to produce patches that fix the 
> problem and shepherd them through the release process.  Please don't 
> expect anyone else to fix your problems.

Not exactly *my* problem, I'm rewriting all the code removing its usage. 
However other people want to use it.

> I've suggested what approach I think you should take and I pointed out 
> places where your original patch was incorrect/inefficient, but you 
> haven't come back with a patch that implements it.  That should have 
> been the next step in the process.  After the patch gets some positive 
> feedback on the list, you could then have committed it to 2.1.  Then, 
> you could have proposed it to be backported to 2.0.

Yes, the reason I haven't taken this further was your suggestion to deprecate 
and remove that API. I was expecting that there will be a resolution on this 
issue, however the thread has died out. What's the point of fixing something 
if it's going to be removed.

> And, as Sander has pointed out, this isn't a regression from prior 
> releases. Therefore, we won't necessarily hold up a release for it.  -- 

If something wasn't known to be buggy in prior releases and gets known as 
buggy later on, it can't be even considered to be a showstopper?

__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman            JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/     mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org   http://ticketmaster.com


Sheparding patches was Re: Volunteering to be RM

Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
--On Friday, May 23, 2003 7:38 PM +1000 Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org> wrote:

> Sander, you have asked if there are any objections. I've posted the
> information about an existing problem. Nobody has followed up on this
> report, though everybody seems to be happy to proceed with a new release,
> rolling a new tag. Can somebody please explain why? Is it because I haven't
> logged this issue into a STATUS file, haven't submitted it to the bug
> database, or just because I don't have enough httpd-dev karma to make any
> difference?

In this particular case, my attitude is that since you have commit access, the 
responsibility is upon you to produce patches that fix the problem and 
shepherd them through the release process.  Please don't expect anyone else to 
fix your problems.

I've suggested what approach I think you should take and I pointed out places 
where your original patch was incorrect/inefficient, but you haven't come back 
with a patch that implements it.  That should have been the next step in the 
process.  After the patch gets some positive feedback on the list, you could 
then have committed it to 2.1.  Then, you could have proposed it to be 
backported to 2.0.

And, as Sander has pointed out, this isn't a regression from prior releases. 
Therefore, we won't necessarily hold up a release for it.  -- justin

Re: Volunteering to be RM

Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Sander Striker wrote:
>>From: Stas Bekman [mailto:stas@stason.org]
>>Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 11:38 AM
> 
> 
>>Stas Bekman wrote:
>>
>>>Sander Striker wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I guess it is about time for a new 2.0 release.  I hereby
>>>>volunteer to be RM.  If I don't hear any objections I'll
>>>>tag tomorrow.
>>>
>>>
>>>ap_get_client_block is broken. Can this be considered a showstopper?
>>>
>>>The fix is pretty trivial, just need to decide which one to use.
>>>
>>>See: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=105281650300001&r=1&w=2
>>
>>Sander, you have asked if there are any objections. I've posted the 
>>information about an existing problem. Nobody has followed up on this report, 
>>though everybody seems to be happy to proceed with a new release, rolling a 
>>new tag. Can somebody please explain why?
> 
> 
> Sorry about that Stas.  The brokenness was present in previous releases,
> correct?  Therefor, IMO, it isn't a showstopper.  

I think that bug wasn't known until now.

> I prolly should have stated
> that.

Yes, please. That's the respond I was missing. Thanks.

>>Is it because I haven't logged this issue into a STATUS file, haven't submitted
>>it to the bug database, or just because I don't have enough httpd-dev karma
>>to make any difference?
> 
> 
> None of the above.  You just need sufficient backing for the patch and
> someone needs to commit it (to 2.1).  And then propose it for backport.
> A bit odd, given we want to get rid of the thing altogher in 2.1, but hey...

That's the thing. Justin has suggested to get rid of it, but noone has 
followed up on his suggestion...

__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman            JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/     mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org   http://ticketmaster.com


RE: Volunteering to be RM

Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: Stas Bekman [mailto:stas@stason.org]
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 11:38 AM

> Stas Bekman wrote:
> > Sander Striker wrote:
> > 
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>
> >> I guess it is about time for a new 2.0 release.  I hereby
> >> volunteer to be RM.  If I don't hear any objections I'll
> >> tag tomorrow.
> > 
> > 
> > ap_get_client_block is broken. Can this be considered a showstopper?
> > 
> > The fix is pretty trivial, just need to decide which one to use.
> > 
> > See: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=105281650300001&r=1&w=2
> 
> Sander, you have asked if there are any objections. I've posted the 
> information about an existing problem. Nobody has followed up on this report, 
> though everybody seems to be happy to proceed with a new release, rolling a 
> new tag. Can somebody please explain why?

Sorry about that Stas.  The brokenness was present in previous releases,
correct?  Therefor, IMO, it isn't a showstopper.  I prolly should have stated
that.

> Is it because I haven't logged this issue into a STATUS file, haven't submitted
> it to the bug database, or just because I don't have enough httpd-dev karma
> to make any difference?

None of the above.  You just need sufficient backing for the patch and
someone needs to commit it (to 2.1).  And then propose it for backport.
A bit odd, given we want to get rid of the thing altogher in 2.1, but hey...


Sander

Re: Volunteering to be RM

Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> Sander Striker wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I guess it is about time for a new 2.0 release.  I hereby
>> volunteer to be RM.  If I don't hear any objections I'll
>> tag tomorrow.
> 
> 
> ap_get_client_block is broken. Can this be considered a showstopper?
> 
> The fix is pretty trivial, just need to decide which one to use.
> 
> See: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=105281650300001&r=1&w=2

Sander, you have asked if there are any objections. I've posted the 
information about an existing problem. Nobody has followed up on this report, 
though everybody seems to be happy to proceed with a new release, rolling a 
new tag. Can somebody please explain why? Is it because I haven't logged this 
issue into a STATUS file, haven't submitted it to the bug database, or just 
because I don't have enough httpd-dev karma to make any difference?

:(

__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman            JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/     mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org   http://ticketmaster.com


Re: Volunteering to be RM

Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Sander Striker wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I guess it is about time for a new 2.0 release.  I hereby
> volunteer to be RM.  If I don't hear any objections I'll
> tag tomorrow.

ap_get_client_block is broken. Can this be considered a showstopper?

The fix is pretty trivial, just need to decide which one to use.

See: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=105281650300001&r=1&w=2

__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman            JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/     mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org   http://ticketmaster.com


Re: Volunteering to be RM

Posted by Cliff Woolley <jw...@virginia.edu>.
On Mon, 19 May 2003, Sander Striker wrote:

> I guess it is about time for a new 2.0 release.  I hereby
> volunteer to be RM.  If I don't hear any objections I'll
> tag tomorrow.

Sounds about right.  +1.

--Cliff